Wasn't Sony rumoured to be producing a less powerful system than Microsoft? Though I understand at this point in time everything should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Xbox World Rumor: Xbox 720 Devkit Specs Detailed, Includes 16-Core Processor
- Thread starter Globox_82
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Wasn't Sony rumoured to be producing a less powerful system than Microsoft? Though I understand at this point in time everything should be taken with a grain of salt.
McHuj
Member
At first I thought that 192 shader rumor seemed bogus, but Fudzilla has an article today about a 2013 AMD APU Richland that is supposed to be 28nm dual core with only 192 GCN shaders. I'm guessing it's using the Jaguar cores for the CPU.
So now that 192 number doesn't sound so strange, but it would need a discrete GPU as well.
So now that 192 number doesn't sound so strange, but it would need a discrete GPU as well.
Its only the most power efficiand and capable GPU architectures ever made [so far]. 7870 is the absolute beast of the GPU, and for <100W offers insane performance in console enviroment.
Sony was rumored to have more powerfull, but MS will have much more ram because of Kinect 2.
slackboy72
Banned
So they'll essentially be the same?
We really don't know what kinds of customizations Sony and MS have done to the GPU, so I'm sure it won't be too bad, especially compared to current gen.
Allowing developers to get their games up and running faster should allow more time for iteration and innovation in the software space. Either that or they just pump out the same games but faster now. =p
Either way, similar hardware should not stifle innovation, unless you consider making development hell for studios as "innovation".
The gap between RSX and Xenos is nowhere near that large but the RSX still needs assistance from the Cell to keep up. I doubt either company will put that slow of a GPU in their console unless the gap can be made elsewhere (additional hardware, efficiencies, etc.).
It's looking more and more like the biggest difference between the two will be the memory type and amount, not the CPU or GPU.
Projectjustice
Banned
SniperHunter
Banned
I agree
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
If this puppy has 16 cores they're going to need the ability to upgrade the gpu in the future. Even the highest level current pc gpu can't take advantage of all that powaaaa.
And if they waste a shitload of that powaa on the integrated connect, I'm waiting for valve's steam box.
And if they waste a shitload of that powaa on the integrated connect, I'm waiting for valve's steam box.
McHuj
Member
What do you mean at this stage? The next xbox was rumored to be an all AMD solution for probably close to a year now. And by the time things start leaking as rumors, they've probably been fairly solid for a while. At this point all the design work has been done for probably months.
super painfully low yields is potentially good news, means they're pushing the envelope.
Or they're trying to get everything onto one huge chip right from the start.
highly customised GPU sounds good too.
manzo
Member
Naturally just the flop count doesn't really mean anything else than raw performance (fillrate/blending, shader performance being the most important), but still - 0,8TF is a HUGE gap - almost the entire performance of a WiiU. We're talking more than GC vs Xbox level difference. If MS is going with unified DDR4 or something similar, they need ESRAM - lots of it - to tackle the GPU memory speed issues.
I really wonder why the reason for gimping out on the GPU is - to keep the costs low if Kinect 2 is in every package? It's a bloody shame if so...
For me, I'm only going to buy one console from now on. My 360-PS3-Wii usage percentage was around 90-8-2 this generation, so I could've lived with 360 only easily. Should Sony get the better multiplats next gen, there is absolutely no need for a MS console in my shelf anymore.
bgassassin
Member
Would you buy it if it said Intel/nVidia?
Your post just made me check into that. So I see there was no "hidden meaning" behind the 192. I agree about needing a discrete GPU. So they go APU to access the low-powered CPU and add a discrete GPU for necessary graphical power? That would sound like some of those old rumors.
Baron_Calamity
Member
So both systems will get third party ports of equal quality. Good news I think.
I still think the next Xbox will use a disk format other than Bluray. It might be HD-DVD. They own it, any factory that makes DVDs can make HD-DVD and it only needs to be a game delivery media. Microsoft knows almost no one uses their 360 to watch movies on DVD anymore and Bluray hasn't done that well. The future of movies will be streamed.
I still think the next Xbox will use a disk format other than Bluray. It might be HD-DVD. They own it, any factory that makes DVDs can make HD-DVD and it only needs to be a game delivery media. Microsoft knows almost no one uses their 360 to watch movies on DVD anymore and Bluray hasn't done that well. The future of movies will be streamed.
specialguy
Banned
Uhh, HD7970 will almost CERTAINLY be much more powerful than anything PS4/XB3 end up launching with.
The series matters less than the raw power. A 7970 would crush a hypothetical 8650 for example...by your logic you'd rather have the 8650.
Especially since there are not going to be any drastic, sweeping changes between 8k series and 7k series, just usual incremental improvements.
it is likely imo that xb3/ps4 will end up using something from the hd 8xxx series in actual shipping form, in the meantime the dev kits will use something with a similar number of GCN shaders from the 7xxx series since 8xxx doesnt exist yet.
All AMD solution?
I thought that the CPU was going to be a 8 cores (dual threaded) low power POWERPC cpu, and the latest rumors talked about nVidia as a GPU partner.
Now it's all AMD with a 4 cores CPU according to this source.
And obviously the partners are fixed, design is done at this point. My point was how much these so called sources actually know about it.
The old MS internal document seems the only legit source about their plans, although the small details are outdated at this point.
That imo has always been obvious, because both will release at similar prices at around the same time, no one has the magic wand and can create something much better unless they plan to sell at a much higher price point or much later.
Also it's in the interest of both players to create a common development ground so that they can have all the support they can from developers. Then they'll differentiate with first party game, services/applications and control system.
I agree entirely, though I'll get both next gen consoles, I'm only getting one at launch.
I just think we should wait before jumping to conclusions that the gap between them two will be that large.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
I especially hope this is true because of how much I believe neogaf was underestimating next gen hardware. From what I remember most people believed 4 core, 2 gigs RAM, and a middle of the line current PC graphics card. The biggest response on previous hardware threads by those people: "expect to get letdown if you think its going to be any better than that, man".
manzo
Member
I'd say MS' camp is written to stone at this point, so we'll only have to wait until we get real leaks/specs from the Sony side.
Anyway, I hope either one of them pushes the envelope. This will benefit PC gamers also.
No-one underestimates the hardware here - you just have to be a realistic with the situation. Some people however are hoping for a 8-core CPU, 7970 level GPU (which alone is 3TF) level consoles, which are not going to happen.
bgassassin
Member
I remember the majority of expectations being something as good or better than a GTX 580.
good catch.
Although why bother keeping the silicon if you don't need it? You could just strip it out and it'd help down the line when you want to combine both chips on one die.
Maybe they plan to use the integrated GPU as backup - would it have compute capabilities so you could use it as a coprocessor to boost the CPU, or as a kind of physX addon
or just switch the discrete GPU off and use the integrated for streaming and video decode etc.
manzo
Member
I only have 6 cores on my i7
Xbox > PC
New master race am here
Maybe it is an P54C... a version of the Larrabee core
There will NOT be more than 4 cores on both 720 and PS4. This thread should be locked already, the 16 core IBM rumor is old as hell has been debunked already.
GAF's ProElite --> Beyond3d --> GAF
SniperHunter
Banned
Most engines are optimized for 4 cores max, except for the PS3 engines. No point in having 5 cores or more anymore.
I bought a six core 1055t thinking it would future proof my PC, but 2 years later there isn't a single game on the market that uses all the six cores lol
I bought a six core 1055t thinking it would future proof my PC, but 2 years later there isn't a single game on the market that uses all the six cores lol
McHuj
Member
yeah. I think your last point might be it.
In this scenario, I would guess they would use the APU's GPU for video playback, menu navigation, etc and let the system run at a lower power and thus quieter for those tasks. Perhaps they want an AppleTV-like competitor and they could reuse the APU for that product line as well.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Define "HAVE to."
Who's to say the rumors regarding either is 100% accurate? Nothing is written in stone when it's supposedly only alpha kits out in the wild.
I think people getting caught up on 16 cores was wrong to begin with. In total we are probably looking at 16 threads max, and if they were going with cores, they would be 16 simpler, single threaded cores.
Actually IIRC it's Dev on B3D -> ProElite -> GAF.
At least according to him.
To remain performance competitive?
bgassassin
Member
Same thing I was thinking. I can see your first point and last point being the most likely scenarios.
manzo
Member
I'm quite sure that MS has set the specs in stone, but my guess is that they are not known to devs at this point and the alpha kits are always quite far away from the final hardware. Sony OTOH is a big question mark - even the rumors are pretty vague at the moment.
I really hope that all rumors out now are on the slower side than what we'll see in the final retail hardware.
Let's humor the idea of 16 single threaded cores in the CPU - what would the gain be from this? Wouldn't the silicon be insanely large, roughly big SoC size? Waste of silicon, yes?
They only need to remain competitive against pirates. Even if nextgen can produce 5x better graphic [lowballing, it will be more], that stil five times better than Last of Us and Beyond. For many, that will be more than enough.
AstroNut325
Member
So is the number of cores the new number of bits?
phosphor112
Banned
Jeff had that theory.
I actually thought it was the other way around. BG's leaked has provided leaked specs for the PS4 while things still seem to be in a little bit of flux with the next xbox.
From what I've read, both should have their planned specs in stone at this point (pending minor changes), and developers should have been briefed on their planned specs. So while devs may not have actual hardware for either system, they should have a good idea what they are at least planning on doing.
This all depends on what type of CPU they go for, cache coherency, etc. I don't see either system having a 16 core CPU, and I thought this back when the earlier rumor first surfaced.
No matter what it'll be better than last gen, the Wii-U will be better than last gen. However if one system provides a good leap in performance, for a similar price and launch date, the weaker of the two may be impacted unless it provides additional value elsewhere.
Do you put stock in this theory? NDAs are a big deal, even between developers or engineers within a company. MS and Sony likely don't know much more than we do from rumors.
yeah he had that theory but this was from a website.
Once i had a dream... of a nextgen 32nm console with total power drain of 200-250W.
That dream is now dead.
Low TDP CPU = more W for GPU. Thats good news not bad.
phosphor112
Banned
Polishin8r
Member
soon next generation fanboi wars will begin soon, its quiet before the storm...
Having both consoles being similar is good for developers. Part of the reason costs have skyrocketed this generation are teams having to make games that work on widely different architecture. If the next gen consoles are close, it will help cut down on development costs. Games will be able to be developed better more efficiently. They will be able to start the game on PC, and easily port them to Next Xbox and PS4 while taking advantage of what each hardware offers.
But yes, if these specs are true, then there isn't going to be much difference at all in 3rd party games on both systems. They'll be 99 percent identical.
GPU is on the SoC. They cant make that one chip insanely hot by sticking big GPU inside of it. Absolute max is modified 7850/7870 [some 1.5-1.8tflops]. Standalone 7970 is >3.5tflops.
[for perspective, ps3 and x360 are around 0.25 tflops, and they were insanely powerful when they have arrived on the market].
bgassassin
Member
Yeah I think any "major" changes occurred with the very likely switch to Jaguar cores and other things in relation to those cores. And that seems to be pretty much out of way, at least based on available info. I think both are pretty set minus getting actual, representative silicon in devs hands.