I'd rather have a good game before dual audio.
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XSEED Translator on why all games don't get dual audio
- Thread starter Stuart444
- Start date
I'd rather have a good game before dual audio.
Luckily, the two aren't really related (although some would probably disagree).
We'll get neither.
If there is no JP audio on a game I was already going to buy, well that sucks. But oh well, not a deal breaker.
If it's a game I'm on the fence on, however, it absolutely is.
Look at the target demographic. If the game is primarily anime inspired with anime-ish graphics, it can definitely be.
Can you guess where the Atelier games fall?
If it's a game I'm on the fence on, however, it absolutely is.
Look at the target demographic. If the game is primarily anime inspired with anime-ish graphics, it can definitely be.
Can you guess where the Atelier games fall?
Charoncaori
Member
The second Dynasty Warriors: Gundam game had no Japanese voice track. What the FUCK? Who the hell was their target audience? And how the heck did it sell well enough to bring the 3rd one over (complete with Japanese VAs again!)?
I skipped over it and have the 1st and 3rd ones because you can only hear "Kamille's a man's name, AND I'M A MAN!" so many times...
Is it true that Sony was pretty much forcing people to leave out Japanese voiceovers in the US a few years back?
I skipped over it and have the 1st and 3rd ones because you can only hear "Kamille's a man's name, AND I'M A MAN!" so many times...
Is it true that Sony was pretty much forcing people to leave out Japanese voiceovers in the US a few years back?
Lostconfused
Member
Their target market was people who buy Dynasty Warriors games. No one in their right mind would license a Gundam anything for release in north america if that was the selling point.
HylianScribe
Member
The licensing stuff is really ridiculous. That example in OP is insane, but not surprising. Like how many US distributors of anime can't even subtitle OP/ED music anymore because the lyrics have to be approved by the band/artist, and by the time the approval process is done the 13-26 episodes of the show that actually use that music have already been released here. Not to mention the cost of the legal process for all that.
Hopefully sometime in the near future studios realize that the there still is a good sized audience for anime in the west, but it's only chance is via streaming/digital distribution so that westerners get it as soon as possible to counter fansubs. Maybe they can work out international licensing stuff from the get-go to avoid these headaches, for both anime and video games.
Hopefully sometime in the near future studios realize that the there still is a good sized audience for anime in the west, but it's only chance is via streaming/digital distribution so that westerners get it as soon as possible to counter fansubs. Maybe they can work out international licensing stuff from the get-go to avoid these headaches, for both anime and video games.
Charoncaori
Member
Do regular dynasty warriors fans buy ALL the spinoff games? Sheesh! I know the games were pretty well-liked among the Gundam fan community.
Ahaha, props, dude.
I have never heard of this (but I haven't been buying a ton of new series). Can you give an example?
And uh, a bunch of companies have jumped on the digital release bandwagon, and we've had tons of simulcasts. They don't make any money unless they're on a subscription site, though.
While ease of piracy and declining interest undoubtedly did a lot of harm to anime releases here, I wonder how much of it is Japanese companies having a stick up their ass now that it's not as niche and unpopular/unknown as in the 80s and 90s. At least the lyrics are crap I don't care about 99% of the time in anime/games... and don't usually care even in English.
Lostconfused
Member
They don't really have a choice and would probably like almost any game that gets licensed. Did Ken's Rage 1 and 2 come out here because Fist of the North Star is such a popular franchise that's always greeted with huge sales?
Charoncaori
Member
Hahaha, that decision really surprised me, too. But something like HnK seems like it'd work pretty well as a beat em up.
Actually, that doesn't disagree with my overall point at all! In fact, I completely agree with that line of reasoning. If the localization was done poorly -- and make no mistake, voice-acting is part of localization -- then that's a completely fair and justifiable reason not to spend your money on the product, I believe.
This post was in response to a person who stated they wouldn't buy any game that removed the original Japanese language track, period. No stipulation on the quality of the English dub -- basically just, if it's dubbed, it's not getting bought, even if the dub is absolute top-quality work.
That's really what I find disheartening. Being picky about the quality of a localization, though, is totally fine, and I would always strongly encourage that.
Also, just to be clear: I'm a little afraid the above-quoted explanation may imply that we only ever begrudgingly dub games and never actually WANT to do it, which isn't true at all. In actuality, we LOVE dubbing games, because voice-recording is just a LOT of fun! Probably the most fun any of us ever have at work, in fact!
It is super-expensive and extremely time-consuming, though, so deciding whether or not to dub a game is always a tricky prospect, and requires a lot of business analysis. The amount of voice-acting included in the title, the type of voice-acting and the availability of the original Japanese voices are always key factors in our final decision. And in general, if we DO dub a game, we always at least TRY to keep the original Japanese language track intact as well.
No, that's really not true. In most cases, the voices simply aren't available at all -- no matter how much money we throw at them. If publishers could pay off the studio to extend their licensing to other countries, and that's all there was to it, then I'm pretty sure they would in most cases. I mean, we have very little budget for anything, but I know we certainly would if we could in all but the most extreme cases.
-Tom
The quality of the dub still doesn't change the fact that the audio is in English. It's a preference people have and I think it's totally understandable to not want to play a niche japanese game with English audio. It makes for a totally different experience.
Very interesting and informative post though.
Yeah, it's a series I think you could just make a decent enough dumb action game with, throw to the US, and possibly still get respectable sales. It's not like they made a Musou game with ridiculous cutesy moe girls, but with men who can blow up tanks through enough punches.
encephalon
Member
Without using the e word, it seems ridiculous to me that some players seem to be unable to see outside of the realm of their own self interests, recognize that there is a legal minefield for localization companies to navigate, have the common sense to understand that companies are not likely to pay Japanese voice actors extra to cater to the tastes of a limited portion of their fanbase, and would prefer it if their personal tastes (in this case, Japanese dub instead of English dub) supersede the rest of the fanbase. Forget companies not providing reasonable content, what made you more important than other fans?
I prefer Japanese dubs for the most part and almost always select the Japanese dub when given the option, but come on. Learn to be flexible.
I prefer Japanese dubs for the most part and almost always select the Japanese dub when given the option, but come on. Learn to be flexible.
dakkumauji
Member
I imagine they saw higher potential sales in Europe and hey, while it's already translated might as well release it in in the US.
DarknessTear
Banned
Square-Enix games do not need dual audio. Why? Because the mouth movements fit in English, and they actually hire competent actors sans Vanille's actress. There's no point, really. I prefer to watch anime in the original language, but games kinda lose their immersion, plus all the awkward pauses by Japanese actors in games.. bleh. I also never understood why anyone in the west would ever want dual audio in KH1.5. Our version has superior VA.
BlackIronCount
Member
squareenix is weird Their Asian version of FFXIII series and dissidia are using JP voice + eng sub, which mean they are willing/able to pay the license for using jp audio even tough it's a region that wasn't that big in term of sales compared to EU/NA.
It's still nice to have the option if they can fit it in, and in the case it's THERE in the Japanese version so if they remove it in localization, well, what the fuck? Not that I'd want to play that in Japanese, we're talking piles of classic Disney stuff and the right talent hired, so it just wouldn't be right to play in Japanese, but it seems like an easy thing to keep feature parity on, especially as they seemingly acknowledge that THEY want English VA, so wouldn't WE possibly want Japanese VA?
And Vanille seemed fine to me, that was probably more a problem of her type of character, and they did about as good a job as they could in English.
Unfortunately, the consumer has little reason to deviate from their self interest, and why should they? If it's that important to them, they have the right to not buy the game because they did not get what they wanted. This is absolutely fine and there is nothing wrong with it. XSEED should definitely add the dual audio track if they want to reach that audience. If they can't, whether or not it was out of their control, they have failed to have their product appeal to them and should not expect to see their money. If that portion of the fanbase is as limited as they believe, it shouldn't have a huge impact on their sales anyway. It works both ways.
zerokoolpsx
Member
You and me BOTH!
encephalon
Member
If Square is going to focus anything, focus on better translation work. No need to make a silly script even sillier. I could be wrong, but FFXIII seemed to match the lips with the English VA. FFXII didn't have this advantage and it ended up with much better dialogue. Talk about a wasted opportunity.
Whale sounds SC sounds hilarious.
If the VA is truly bad, I can understand this, but I can't really follow this line of thought otherwise. It's not XSEED's fault if someone has unreasonable expectations.
Whale sounds SC sounds hilarious.
If the VA is truly bad, I can understand this, but I can't really follow this line of thought otherwise. It's not XSEED's fault if someone has unreasonable expectations.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The central premise of the OP's quoted statement is essentially flawed. So I'm supposed to give my money for something which lacks a feature I want, just to "support" future games which also may or may not have the feature? Really? Should I start buying games which don't have an ending, to support future games which might have them? And what happens when the publishers take the "message" I'm sending the wrong way, and decide instead that it's okay to not go through the trouble of trying to obtain the original language track? After all, people are buying games without them, so who needs them anyways?
BlackIronCount
Member
is it really that hard to understand that people have different preference and different thing they see important ? wanting japanese voice on japanese video game?.
So why don't you buy the Japanese version?
Sony Asia is involve with the Square Enix Asian release.
Reality CAN make that unreasonable as highlighted here. :/
Though more accurately it's not really unreasonable to code a game to easily allow it to be there, especially on mediums with the space (should be nearly a non-issue next gen, solved through DLC at an extreme), but it can become unreasonable for an already finished game to be recoded in a way inserting additional language tracks is a huge pain, when it's on a platform that doesn't have the space to put it in and no good way to address that, or when you made a deal that actively gets in the way. In a more ideal world we simply wouldn't worry, but maybe in a more ideal world it'd be stupid easy to learn other languages anyway or we'd all be speaking one very versatile language.
The quality of the VA is irrelevant. Stop trying to paint the consumer in a negative light for not wanting to buy something that does not appeal to them. It doesn't matter how unreasonable their expectations are.
HolyBaikal
Banned
Some of them.
encephalon
Member
I take it you think the customer is always right?
The original spirit of that phrase is absolutely correct. It's the business's job to bend to the will of the consumers, because it's their job to make people want to buy their products. That doesn't mean that any demand a particular customer makes is correct, but it does mean that if a portion of your customer base wants something and you don't deliver, then it's your own problem if they take their business elsewhere, nobody else's.
encephalon
Member
I suppose it's not terribly different than deciding not to play a game because the graphical style doesn't cater to someone's tastes. On the other hand, a refusal to buy games that don't include dual audio ... for certain platforms, I wonder how many times this means not buying the game but playing anyways.
HolyBaikal
Banned
On the subject of VAs. While quality matters, I obviously will take a good dub over Chaos Wars anyday. And just because it's in a foreign language, doesn't mean it is good.
I'm pretty fond of enjoying stuff in foreign languages. And Japanese is one of those languages I like. Not the only language, but one of them. This is an especially nice feature. English is kind of boring since, living in a country where the majority language is English, and I very often see something in a language other than English or Spanish unless I travel several hundred miles, it's pretty fun and enjoyable to get to enjoy something in another language. Feels inexplicably special. It also makes me feel like I'm learning something, since I'm already fluent in English.
These rules apply to the fact that, despite the fact My Little Pony is an American cartoon, and the original English track is great. I'm looking forward to watching it in Japanese. And have already watched the show in various European language dubs, despite the fact most of them are not as good as the original English.
Maybe I would feel differently if I lived in Europe instead of the middle of the United States, where everyone speaks English for miles and miles. But I do. So it feels a little bit linguistically boring very easily. And hearing stuff in other languages instills an inexplicable sense of wonder and being special in me. How long does it feel novel? Until I'm fluent, I imagine. Which means probably never.
So while I do not demand that I be able to have games in Japanese, it's certainly a bonus. And I personally think that's an understandable feeling to have.
I'm pretty fond of enjoying stuff in foreign languages. And Japanese is one of those languages I like. Not the only language, but one of them. This is an especially nice feature. English is kind of boring since, living in a country where the majority language is English, and I very often see something in a language other than English or Spanish unless I travel several hundred miles, it's pretty fun and enjoyable to get to enjoy something in another language. Feels inexplicably special. It also makes me feel like I'm learning something, since I'm already fluent in English.
These rules apply to the fact that, despite the fact My Little Pony is an American cartoon, and the original English track is great. I'm looking forward to watching it in Japanese. And have already watched the show in various European language dubs, despite the fact most of them are not as good as the original English.
Maybe I would feel differently if I lived in Europe instead of the middle of the United States, where everyone speaks English for miles and miles. But I do. So it feels a little bit linguistically boring very easily. And hearing stuff in other languages instills an inexplicable sense of wonder and being special in me. How long does it feel novel? Until I'm fluent, I imagine. Which means probably never.
So while I do not demand that I be able to have games in Japanese, it's certainly a bonus. And I personally think that's an understandable feeling to have.
RyougaSaotome
Member
This. If you want to play the game in its original language, the Japanese versions aren't going anywhere. =)
RSLAEV
Member
Every time this issue comes up I imagine that the property not being licensed must have been funded with crazy yakuza money or something that would make international licensing a real problem. You've got a world wide audience with their wallets out shouting "Shut up and take my money" and the Japanese company is like "No Lawl, we're cool with just selling this game to the locals, no game/cartoon for u". Is there any other country where this would happen? Who doesn't like money?
I appreciate the efforts of XSeed and companies like them who do their best to bring a product to market despite of all of these roadblocks.
I appreciate the efforts of XSeed and companies like them who do their best to bring a product to market despite of all of these roadblocks.
I'd say that this is reaching quite a bit to imply that people whose needs aren't being met would simply resort to piracy.
Pirated copies of undubbed games do exist, and if those people resort to piracy to get what they want, hey, pirates are offering a product that XSEED could not. In regards to those who would pirate what they want and not buy the game anyway, it's hard to make the argument that they would have bought an official release of what they wanted in the first place if they are scumbags.
Alas, I do not wish to derail the thread with piracy discussion.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The story of how Japan has been utterly incapable of monetizing anime in worldwide markets for decades would be a thread in itself. Japan's sclerotic business culture has led to the near collapse of their entire consumer electronics industry as the Koreans and Chinese besiege every industry segment they used to dominate but they still seem incapable of figuring out their problems. They are facing a catastrophic population collapse in the next 50 years due to aging and low birthrate but there isn't even any apparent will to deal with such a huge, possibly society threatening issue. So the problems with their export media markets are kind of small by comparison. They've been leaving this money on the table for so long that it seems like they will never fix the problems they are having with income streams.
Based Gabe was the one who noted that pirates are underserved customers. I can't think of a more textbook example than this off the top of my head.
Some people do. Some learn japanese solely for that purpose. Others don't think it's worth such an investment time wise. However they still would like the va to coincide with a characters behaviour as there is no American analogue to the way some japanese characters behave and shoehorning an English vo into it is disconcerting. Of course it's up to the business to provide that convenience... or not.
CielTynave
Member
You're not, don't worry. I actually don't buy anything from NISA anymore because they don't dub the anime they license.
The point I was trying to make is that publishers are often faced with two options: release the game in English with an English dub, or don't release the game in English at all. And if people stop buying games because they have English dubs, you're going to see more publishers choosing the latter, which means fewer games of that sort available in English.
In the end, if you honestly believe it would be better not to translate the game at all than to translate it with dubbed audio, that's your prerogative. But if you want to enjoy the game without learning Japanese, you may just have to make a concession. Sure, you can always pirate an undub or something... but if you do that, and a sequel comes out the next year, you may find yourself not getting a translation for that sequel because sales of the original simply didn't add up.
Ultimately, if you want to support games being translated to English, you need to take the good with the bad. If a publisher has done all that they can to deliver a top-quality product to you, but was forced to eliminate the Japanese voices in the process... well, then you have a decision to make: do you show support for the effort that went into translating said game so that future titles have a firm foundation for release as well (knowing that dual audio may BECOME an option as the publisher and developer forge a closer relationship with one another), or do you deny support to the effort due to the lack of Japanese audio and possibly contribute toward the series' western presence dying with that one single release?
-Tom
Anime distributors in the US figured out long ago that dual audio anime sales>dub only sales>sub only sales for most things and only release sub only for super niche things that only mega weeaboos would buy.
So I guess no, you're not alone.
Delusibeta
Banned
I can think of a bunch of American TV shows that aren't available in the UK, and vice-versa. I can't use the "have to localise" excuse for that.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
I'm interested in how Project x Zone will sell over here.
Licensing issues are a bitch and a half between borders. Sometimes even preventing works of parent media companies from airing on their subordinate foreign companies!