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Sonys stock price falling - Nikkei:"DQ shock"

W

walking fiend

Member
offshore said:
Indeed.

Apple could buy Sony nearly four times over. That's crazy.
Click to expand...
NO, this is not how it is done, and this is the second time I see this in last 20 minutes or so! Apple is actually smaller (by almost 30%) than Sony, they can't buy it all, let alone four time over!


DQ causes global recession is next.
Click to expand...
It has caused already, Nintendo used its secret time machines to inform the world in 2009
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
If FFXI managed to be a success, I'm sure they could pull it off with DQX too. It could go either way though, which is why investors probably don't want to take that risk and I honestly can't blame them.
 
E

El-Suave

Member
Did stock prices fall when they lost one third party exclusive after another early this generation? Granted, they still got those games on their platform, but some of those titles should be much more important in an analysts eye than a Dragon Quest game is.
 
S

Spiegel

Member
AranhaHunter said:
So why is Nintendo stock down too?
Click to expand...

Sony - DQ not on Sony systems
S-E - DQ is a MMO
Nintendo - DQ is a MMO

No one wins. Maybe cancelling DQX will make the stocks to go up.

Or maybe they are down just like most japanese companies are down these days. I think I read Sega, Namco Bandai,... were down too.
 
S

StuBurns

Banned
I don't see why an MMO is bad news to shareholders, FFXI is the highest revenue entry, this could easily be the same.
 
N

[Nintex]

Member
Spiegel said:
Sony - DQ not on Sony systems
S-E - DQ is a MMO
Nintendo - DQ is a MMO

No one wins. Maybe cancelling DQX will make the stocks to go up.

Or maybe they are down just like most japanese companies are down these days. I think I read Sega, Namco Bandai,... were down too.
Click to expand...
My guess is:

Sony - No DQ on Sony systems
S-E - Dragon Quest X being an MMO announced for a dead system and a system that isn't even shown in Japan yet
Nintendo - No Dragon Quest for 3DS(?), still not much known about Wii U
 
A

AranhaHunter

Banned
darkwing said:
you could ask the same for SE
Click to expand...

Spiegel said:
Sony - DQ not on Sony systems
S-E - DQ is a MMO
Nintendo - DQ is a MMO

No one wins. Maybe cancelling DQX will make the stocks to go up.

Or maybe they are down just like most japanese companies are down these days. I think I read Sega, Namco Bandai,... were down too.
Click to expand...

I was being sarcastic, EVERYTHING is down today, some more than others.
 
W

Wazzim

Banned
AranhaHunter said:
I was being sarcastic, EVERYTHING is down today, some more than others.
Click to expand...
That's because the south of Europe is fucking things up everywhere. The ECB is just waiting for the inevitable default of Greece.
 
T

test_account

XP-39C²
[QUOTE='[Nintex]Nintendo - No Dragon Quest for 3DS(?), still not much known about Wii U[/QUOTE]
Rocket Slime 3 is announced for the 3DS. It is a spin-off though, but still a DQ game =)
 
D

darkwing

Member
Wazzim said:
That's because the south of Europe is fucking things up everywhere. The ECB is just waiting for the inevitable default of Greece.
Click to expand...

when Greece defaults, they can blame DQ
 
B

Busty

Banned
walking fiend said:
NO, this is not how it is done, and this is the second time I see this in last 20 minutes or so! Apple is actually smaller (by almost 30%) than Sony, they can't buy it all, let alone four time over!
Click to expand...

I agree with you but I'm not sure about this part of your post. Could you explain please?
 
N

[Nintex]

Member
Busty said:
I agree with you but I'm not sure about this part of your post. Could you explain please?
Click to expand...
I think he means employees and assets so buildings, machines etc. Sony obviously has more factories, R&D buildings, movie studios, recording studios and all that stuff. Still Microsoft and Apple could both buy Sony with ease with the cash they have in the bank.
 
W

wsippel

Banned
StuBurns said:
I thought there was a thread yesterday saying it was down 10%, I certainly could be mistaken though yeah.
Click to expand...
Nope, only 3 or 4%. Fits the "buy on rumors, sell on news" paradigm many investors follow. There were no groundbreaking positive surprises after all, and stock went up more than 20% over the last three weeks. Investors aren't worried and bailing out, they simply realize profits following the announcement.
 
B

Busty

Banned
[Nintex] said:
I think he means employees and assets so buildings, machines etc. Sony obviously has more factories, R&D buildings, movie studios, recording studios and all that stuff. Still Microsoft and Apple could both buy Sony with ease with the cash they have in the bank.
Click to expand...

Ahh yes. Though I am curious to see how much Sony value their film & TV division. Does anyone know a solid way to do this?
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Spiegel said:
Sony - DQ not on Sony systems
S-E - DQ is a MMO
Nintendo - DQ is a MMO

No one wins. Maybe cancelling DQX will make the stocks to go up.

Or maybe they are down just like most japanese companies are down these days. I think I read Sega, Namco Bandai,... were down too.
Click to expand...
Nintendo's stock only went down 3%, while the whole Tokyo Stock Exchange was down an average of 2.2%. In fact, Sony seems to be only have gone down 2.5%, which is roughly what the whole exchange went down, so I don't think there is an merit to that aspect of this article. The only thing I can say for certain is SE's stock went down 14% in two days because of some aspect of the Dragon Quest X announcements.
 
Auto_aim1

Auto_aim1

MeisaMcCaffrey
Busty said:
I agree with you but I'm not sure about this part of your post. Could you explain please?
Click to expand...
Assets, employees, etc. They have $160 billion in Assets and have 170k employees worldwide.

Busty said:
Ahh yes. Though I am curious to see how much Sony value their film & TV division. Does anyone know a solid way to do this?
Click to expand...
They're performing poorly right now but bring in a lot of revenue.
 
H

Hyuga

Banned
markot said:
Sonys stock falls due to potential lost customers cause of dqx online....

Squares stock falls because of dqx online......
Click to expand...
348gh2x.gif
 
R

Rolf NB

Member
This makes no sense. Dragon Quest X was announced as a Wii exclusive and there have been no indications whatsoever that a Playstation port was ever in the works.
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
walking fiend said:
NO, this is not how it is done, and this is the second time I see this in last 20 minutes or so! Apple is actually smaller (by almost 30%) than Sony, they can't buy it all, let alone four time over!
Click to expand...

What on earth

Sony trades on Tokyo as seen here. One share of Sony costs 1522 JPY (19.67 USD). They have about one billion shares (1,004,693,000 shares). The total value of every share in Sony is 1,529,142,746,000 JPY (19.76 billion US dollars) Apple trades on the NASDAQ as seen here. One share of Apple costs $369.97 USD. They have about 927 million shares (927,091,000 shares). The total value of every share in Apple is $342,995,857,270.

Apple is 17 times larger than Sony by market capitalization

Edit: It's true that Sony has more assets, but you don't use just assets when calculating takeover value. Are you going off market cap, or are you trying to read something into takeover value or enterprise value? Because there is no metric that is useful to the topic of conversation whereby Sony is larger than Apple.
 
X

Xater

Member
StuBurns said:
I don't see why an MMO is bad news to shareholders, FFXI is the highest revenue entry, this could easily be the same.
Click to expand...

Because of the total disaster called FFXIV?
 
U

Ulairi

Banned
[Nintex] said:
I think he means employees and assets so buildings, machines etc. Sony obviously has more factories, R&D buildings, movie studios, recording studios and all that stuff. Still Microsoft and Apple could both buy Sony with ease with the cash they have in the bank.
Click to expand...
Market cap != buying price.
 
W

walking fiend

Member
Stumpokapow said:
What on earth

Sony trades on Tokyo as seen here

One share of Sony costs 1522 JPY (19.67 USD). They have about one billion shares (1,004,693,000 shares). The total value of every share in Sony is 1,529,142,746,000 JPY (19.76 billion US dollars)

Apple trades on the NASDAQ as seen here

One share of Apple costs $369.97 USD. They have about 927 million shares (927,091,000 shares). The total value of every share in Apple is $342,995,857,270.

Apple is 17 times larger than Sony by market capitalization
Click to expand...
That's not what matters when you buy a company, I explained in another post, for THQ though. Market cap of Sony is 20 billion, but their total assets is 160 billion, you can't buy 160 billion of assets by paying 20 billion. Buying shares is not equal to owning a company, shareholders don't really own a company. and total assets of Apple, which is what they can expend if ever they where to use all of it (which of course is not possible, only some of it is usable as cash equivalent), is 100 billion.

Though, I am don't know how market cap of apple is more than three times of its assets.
 
B

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
Seriously, guys?

Half of GAF was still in denial, claiming the game would be released in other platforms, just the other day. Of course investors are surprised.
 
N

[Nintex]

Member
walking fiend said:
That's not what matters when you buy a company, I explained in another post, for THQ though. Market cap of Sony is 20 billion, but their total assets is 160 billion, you can't buy 160 billion of assets by paying 20 billion. Buying shares is not equal to owning a company, shareholders don't really own a company. and total assets of Apple, which is what they can expend if ever they where to use all of it (which of course is not possible, only some of it is usable as cash equivalent), is 100 billion.

Though, I am don't know how market cap of apple is more than three times of its assets.
Click to expand...
If you can buy 51% of the shares you 'own/control' the company. That's how 'hostile' take-overs are usually done.
 
U

Ulairi

Banned
Stumpokapow said:
What on earth

Sony trades on Tokyo as seen here. One share of Sony costs 1522 JPY (19.67 USD). They have about one billion shares (1,004,693,000 shares). The total value of every share in Sony is 1,529,142,746,000 JPY (19.76 billion US dollars) Apple trades on the NASDAQ as seen here. One share of Apple costs $369.97 USD. They have about 927 million shares (927,091,000 shares). The total value of every share in Apple is $342,995,857,270.

Apple is 17 times larger than Sony by market capitalization

Edit: It's true that Sony has more assets, but you don't use just assets when calculating takeover value. Are you going off market cap, or are you trying to read something into takeover value or enterprise value? Because there is no metric that is useful to the topic of conversation whereby Sony is larger than Apple.
Click to expand...


You don't use market cap, either.
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
walking fiend said:
That's not what matters when you buy a company, I explained in another post, for THQ though. Market cap of Sony is 20 billion, but their total assets is 160 billion, you can't buy 160 billion of assets by paying 20 billion. Buying shares is not equal to owning a company, shareholders don't really own a company. and total assets of Apple, which is what they can expend if ever they where to use all of it (which of course is not possible, only some of it is usable as cash equivalent), is 100 billion.
Click to expand...

Erm. Please don't talk about things you don't know about. Buying shares is buying a company. If you own a controlling interest in a company, you can replace the board or liquidate the company or approve a poison pill or do whatever you want to do.

What you're referring to is that a company's value is not only defined by its share price. You want to include assets. If you include assets, you need to include debts and securities. When you buy a company, you assume both assets and debts. The metric you're looking for is Enterprise Value.

Sony's enterprise value is ~$15 billion
Apple's enterprise value is ~$315 billion

Apple is worth 21 times what Sony's worth by the metric you've chosen to use. Your point is less correct using your own metric than using the metric the poster you were replying to was using.
 
U

Ulairi

Banned
[Nintex] said:
If you can buy 51% of the shares you 'own/control' the company. That's how 'hostile' take-overs are usually done.
Click to expand...


Do you know anything about the issuance of equity? Shares held in treasury? And how hard hostile take overs are and what they do to the share price? No. You don't.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Is DQX even a big deal? What kind of impact did DQ9 end up having? As far as I could tell, not much.
 
Paracelsus

Paracelsus

Member
Brazil said:
Seriously, guys?

Half of GAF was still in denial, claiming the game would be released in other platforms, just the other day. Of course investors are surprised.
Click to expand...

Because it made more sense (business agreement-free common sense) than launching it on Wii U, more than surprised investors are baffled.
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Ulairi said:
You don't use market cap, either.
Click to expand...

Market cap gives you the amount of money it takes to nominally buy 100% of a company at its current stock price. It does not give you the company's true valuation, naturally, and it doesn't account for the fact that takeovers typically have a premium, that companies typically resist hostile takeovers, that share prices often rally in response to takeover offers or rumours, etc. But it does give you what it nominally costs to buy the company, which is the question at hand.

Enterprise value is a better metric for a company's true valuation. My point is even more correct with Enterprise value.

Ulairi said:
Do you know anything about the issuance of equity? Shares held in treasury? And how hard hostile take overs are and what they do to the share price? No. You don't.
Click to expand...

Choose a metric that makes sense and use it to demonstrate that Sony is larger than Apple. "Total assets" is not a metric that makes sense in isolation.
 
B

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
Paracelsus said:
Because it made more sense (business agreement-free common sense) than launching it on Wii U, more than surprised investors are baffled.
Click to expand...
No, it didn't. Square had confirmed over and over that the game was Wii-exclusive. The Wii U, in this case, is acting like a extension of the Wii.
 
X

Xater

Member
Brazil said:
Seriously, guys?

Half of GAF was still in denial, claiming the game would be released in other platforms, just the other day. Of course investors are surprised.
Click to expand...

Well technically it will be released on another platform than the Wii, so we were not wrong.
 
B

Busty

Banned
Ulairi said:
Market cap != buying price.
Click to expand...

Before entering this thread this is more or less what I believed to be the case.

Now? Now I don't know what the hell is going.

Needless to say I am not very well acquainted with the world of business and what not.

Ulairi said:
Do you know anything about the issuance of equity? Shares held in treasury? And how hard hostile take overs are and what they do to the share price? No. You don't.
Click to expand...

Enlighten us please. In layman's terms if you don't mind. :p
 
N

[Nintex]

Member
Brazil said:
No, it didn't. Square had confirmed over and over that the game was Wii-exclusive. The Wii U, in this case, is acting like a extension of the Wii.
Click to expand...
Nintendo acting like the Wii U is some sort of Wii extension is going to bite them in the ass hard in the long run.
 
U

Ulairi

Banned
Stumpokapow said:
Market cap gives you the amount of money it takes to nominally buy 100% of a company at its current stock price. It does not give you the company's true valuation, naturally, and it doesn't account for the fact that takeovers typically have a premium, that companies typically resist hostile takeovers, that share prices often rally in response to takeover offers or rumours, etc. But it does give you what it nominally costs to buy the company, which is the question at hand.

Enterprise value is a better metric for a company's true valuation. My point is even more correct with Enterprise value.



Choose a metric that makes sense and use it to demonstrate that Sony is larger than Apple.
Click to expand...
I wasn't agreeing with Warren Buffet. I was trying to make your enterprise value point. I get tired of people saying "Apple should buy X" and looking at market cap. Hostile take overs are extremely difficult and expensive unless you're Mr. Potter.
 
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