elrechazado
Banned
Yeah we should all shut up about discussing the books we like.Emerson said:
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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GRRM has too many POVs going on at once and even then he still can't cover all his simultaneous plotlines.
And he just added a bunch at the end of AFFC with Vicatrion, Euron and now Aegon. I can't see how he's going to bring the story under control unless he kills off half of them.
And he just added a bunch at the end of AFFC with Vicatrion, Euron and now Aegon. I can't see how he's going to bring the story under control unless he kills off half of them.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Halycon said:
That's my only fear with Jon's current status that he might not return as a POV (but I think he will). Martin definitely needs to cull some POVs to bring things more in order though. Hopefully it's just not any Starks, too few of those chapters as it is. I could use one or two less Greyjoys. Get rid of either Hotah or Arianne. I'd say Sam, but I think the Citadel is going to be very important.
edit: We probably don't need Barristen or Jon Connington as POVs in the future, but they know some interesting things about the past
gburgess10
Member
Emerson said:
lolwut?
Just because you are not a professional in a field, doesn't mean you can't estimate within the ballpark how long it will take to complete.
Think about it logically:
1. GRRM is given over to verbose prose and spends quite a lot of time writing his books.
2. One of the major driving points of the series is to bring to focus the invasion of the Others. They WILL come, they will invade, and there will be a fight.
3. It will require AT LEAST one book to do this. Unless GRRM completely gips us on the story. He will have to describe the Others, their powers, their motivations, possible their origins, etc. Then he will have to describe their invasion (how do they the pass wall (my guess some wildlings get so upset by the new Watch leadership someone will find and blow the Horn of Joramun/Winter)?, etc.). How big an invasion it will be (clearly it will reach at least King's Landing since the bird heralding the approach of winter was seen by Kevan). He will have to describe how the north reacts to this, what Jon does, what happens at Hardhome, the wildling response, etc. Then he will have to go into the response of the world to all of this. We also have to watch Jon's transformation into Azor Ahai.
4. Then we have Dany's story to integrate into this, as well as Littlefinger's machinations, and Dorne's activities. Jaime and Brienne's fate, intertwined with the Brotherhood without Banners'. The story in Oldtown and maesters' plans (Samwell). What is the Faceless man up to? Is Arya en route to Oldtown? or where? What about the war that is sweeping down on Westeros led by Connigton and Aegon? This will require another book.
5. Finally, we will need a wrapup. Considering the length of this 1200 page ADWD, and how much GRRM accomplished in it (nothing much? He sets up two battles, but gives us nothing. Thanks for more set up scenarios. I mean there hasn't been enough setup already. What next?).
6. Given all of this, it is logically doubtful that GRRM will finish in just two (even 1200) page books in a satisfactory manner. Thus, given his well known perfectionism, he will have to extend the series' size.
If you don't agree with this logic, how about you logically respond instead of telling people their opinions are horeshit? Which of these events sounds like something GRRM will have to end up not describing? Keep in mind that I have barely listed everything that has to go be wrapped up in the novels.
Basileus777
Member
Halycon said:
He hasn't permanently killed off a non-guest POV since Ned in AGOT, so it would be weird if they started dropping like flies all of a sudden. But hopefully he finds a way to deal with all these POVs.
And yeah, this series being longer than 7 book is pretty much a given at this point. Just like it was obvious 6 books wouldn't be enough back in 2000.. This isn't some insult to the author, he's already expanded the series multiple times. Even GRRM has been wish-washy over whether he can get it done in two books.
There's too many plot lines and threads that haven't converged yet that need to be dealt with. And I don't think he's going for the 4 books of build up, and then everything gets resolved rapidly in 500 pages type of thing you see with some authors who struggle with this stuff.
Look at the remaining main storylines:
- Sansa and Littlefinger in the Vale
- Whatever Arya's fate is
- Brienne, Jaime, and Stoneheart
- Jon at the wall, Rickon, the Boltons and the North
- Sam and Sarella in Oldtown
- Cersei, her trial, her two children's deaths, and however she gets taken down
- Asha, Theon and Aeron and whatever they do against Euron
- Stannis is probably still alive, he's one of the lies Dany is supposed to slay.
- Arianne, Dorne and the Darkstar subplot
- "Aegon" and Connington
- Daenerys, Tyrion, Victarion, and Barristan in Meereen and with the Dothraki
- the Others, Bran, the Cof
I could go on. The thing is most of these plots are separate and their own thing right now. I can't imagine this being resolved in two books, especially given the pace at which the plot moves in AFFC and ADWD.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I think three more books are possible. I'd be more comfortable with 2 more books if Dany had started towards Westeros at the end of ADWD. Of course there's still a chance that she'll head that way at the start of TWOW, but with the Dothraki back in it and Mereen still in turmoil, that seems unlikely.
I don't think it was actually smoke either, but the prophecies generally aren't literal. It resembles smoke, that's good enough. We also have the red star. It comes at the end of a long summer. And darkness is gathering.
Tacitus_ said:
I don't think it was actually smoke either, but the prophecies generally aren't literal. It resembles smoke, that's good enough. We also have the red star. It comes at the end of a long summer. And darkness is gathering.
gburgess10 said:
Honestly I think Mereen is going to be wrapped up in a very quick and unsatisfactory manner. Which is for the best. I fully expect the Others and the whole invasion and deal with them will be in the last book as they are the big finale. Dany will probably be heading back to Westeros towards the middle of WoW. The conclusion and epilogue, what have you, needs to take up only two POVs at most.
I expect next book will see a shift back to Westeros and starting to wrap things up there. I expect either Bolton or Stannis to lose(money on Bolton losing) with them going down to a fractured South.
The pacing is going to be brutal but it is doable to wrap the series up in two books.
It's possible, obviously, but will GRRM do it? Dany should've left for Westeros at the end of SoS but instead she's dicking around in Mereen.Jarmel said:
I think GRRM cares too much about his current plotlines to resolve them in any half assed manner. He gives all his separate plot lines the attention they deserve, and we love him for it, but it's also probably the biggest obstacle to finishing this series.
gburgess10
Member
Retro said:
I was thinking that too when I was rereading the books; Can't believe I forgot that.
Tacitus_ said:
I have a feeling that the dragons bit will bot be as literal as people think. It could mean Jon's hidden Targaryen heritage.
Either way I hope Mereen is finished as quick as possible as I hate every single thing about that storyline except Selmy and Quentin, who had a fiery exit.
Escape Goat
Member
Can someone tell me what I've missed with Daenery's story? I'm only in Book 1 Game of Thrones and Robb is assembling his army in the swamp to face the Lannisters. Danny just gets fucked by her barbarian husband and got pregnant and put some dragon eggs into the fire.
Her story seemingly has nothing to do with the others at this point. What am I missing?
If you could spell that out for me without spoiling the end of the book I'd appreciate it.
Her story seemingly has nothing to do with the others at this point. What am I missing?
If you could spell that out for me without spoiling the end of the book I'd appreciate it.
Basileus777
Member
Escape Goat
Member
Basileus777 said:
Thanks, I'll repost it there.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
elrechazao said:
There's nothing wrong with discussing it. But there are 2 or 3 trolls in these threads who literally never say anything besides "he'll need 8 or 9 books" or "this will never get finished." That is not discussion.
If you read the posts of people like Basileus and that bluemax guy, they don't read like a fan who wants to discuss why they're worried about the series never finishing. They read like someone who actually WANTS it to never be finished.
Basileus777
Member
Wow. You're going around bitching about other posters, boasting about putting people on ignore lists, and calling other people trolls?Emerson said:
I've said plenty of things that aren't negative. And I certainly hope the books get finished. But if you're too emotionally invested in all of this to read reasonable opinions about how the series won't be finished in 7 books, well continue to close your eyes and rant.
elrechazado
Banned
seriously.Basileus777 said:
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Poor Kevan. When I started reading the epilogue, my heart sank. He was a good character, and it sucks that he died so suddenly. Still, it was an awesome ending to the book.
I'm hitting myself for not realizing that Abel was Mance. It's so obvious in retrospect.
I'm hitting myself for not realizing that Abel was Mance. It's so obvious in retrospect.
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
Who do guys think killed the Walder squire? Abel's people claimed it wasn't them.
Basileus777
Member
sazabirules said:
I think it had to be Manderly or Big Walder. Considering how Wyman was offing Frey's left and right and that Frey was betrothed to his daughter (I think), it was probably him.
I've been thinking of all the betrayals in the series, Jon's had to hurt the most. Robb was wary of the Freys, Ned with the Lannisters, but Jon trusted them.
I wonder about the implications of Jon's death will mean. The wildlings will almost certainly attack the Watch and they greatly outnumber the Watch. Could be the Watch gets completely wiped out. Then Stannis isn't going to let that go.
I wonder about the implications of Jon's death will mean. The wildlings will almost certainly attack the Watch and they greatly outnumber the Watch. Could be the Watch gets completely wiped out. Then Stannis isn't going to let that go.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Basileus777 said:
Yeah, Manderly makes sense given the betrothal. Manderly basically proved himself to be a boss in this book.
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
Jarmel said:
Azor Ahai shall be born again.
Someone on the Westeros forum is claiming that Wyman made pies out of the missing Frey's. I didn't think there was anything wrong with the food like that.
Not really. The Others are a real threat at this point and their invasion will clearly start in The Winds of Winter. The whole "Winter is coming" is the main theme of the books and the fight against Others the most important thing by the end. If it begins in TWOW, they can wrap it up in ADOS. Dany needs to be on her way to the Seven Kingdoms in TWOW, but I don't think it needs more than one book of her being there to resolve everything. With all the scheming by Varys and all the other factions who are welcoming Targaryens back and who've been getting ready for the return of the dragons, it really doesn't need to be a huge ordeal for Dany to arrive there. Especially if the Tyrell & Lannisters are despised at that point & Dany welcomed as the saviour or something.Basileus777 said:
Also, AFFC/ADWD "needed" to take their time. The game of thrones was expanded from the "simple" Starks vs Lannisters/North vs. South (with some Dany/Jon stuff on the side) into a lot of other factions. Now that all the sides have been introduced, I'm guessing the story can advance much faster. There's been a lot of build-up & exposition in regards to completely new places & people in the world, which they don't need nearly as much of in the upcoming books.
A lot of the plotlines can probably be resolved quite quickly and without too many chapters. Sansa, Arya & Bran don't need a lot of chapters for what they are doing. They are all being trained in their own rights and other than a few chapters showing us their progress, we can do without them until they are "ready", or until something unexpected happens and they are forced to stop what they are doing and be somewhere else. Once they are done with what they are doing, they could just "disappear" for a while and then pop up somewhere unexpectedly (i.e. once Arya's assassin-training is over, she could just get some assignment and then appear in front of any other POV character some time later).
A lot of POVs can be combined & fates/storylines of characters tied together, especially in Meereen. Dany, Barristan, Tyrion and maybe even Victarion can easily be together. Some other stuff can be ignored and only be touched upon during other characters' chapters. Like just tell us in King's Landing's counsel meetings what Aegon etc. have been up to, shortly, before moving on to other matters/storylines.
Also, Martin can do a couple of time jumps in the beginning of both TWOW and ADOS with all characters/POVs, which might save him some chapters for advancing the story faster/further. He doesn't necessarily have to tell us step-by-step what Dany does with the dothraki that was clearly implied in the end of her last chapter. He can just start with her being a khaleesi in control of 20,000 dothraki. Just use some inner monologue & brief flashbacks to tell what happened in between, but don't spend the whole chapter with it.
At most, I could see the seventh & final book being cut in half for becoming too massive (like one of the A Storm of Swords' paperback editions), but them still releasing them as part I & II of the same book. There might not be enough things left at that point that need to happen for a full 700-1000 page 8th book, especially if both TWOW and ADOS are well over 1000 pages.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I do agree that "this will never get finished" or "nothing at all happens in AFFC/ADWD" is detrimental to the conversation because the former is just wild speculation/conjecture and the latter is just not true.Emerson said:
Basileus777
Member
Maybe. But all of this is still not something that will likely be done in a short amount of pages. And it's not like GRRM is writing a book just about Dany and the Others. There are so many POVs and plot threads to dangle, all of them taking up pages. All the POVs from both AFFC and ADWD in one book is pretty massive.Famassu said:
I think it will advance faster than the past two books, but there still remains so many POVs and so much material to get through. And I think GRRM likes all that exposition and world building. I don't expect him to start cutting that out all of a sudden. And for example, there's still plenty of stuff about the Others that needs to be set-up.
But this isn't what GRRM has been doing for the past two books. Quentyn could have showed up as a surprise arrival, he didn't. Victarion and Tyrion didn't need all those chapters to set up their arrival. You could list a bunch of situations where GRRM could have done a minor timeskip or jumped over minor events or traveling when he chose not to. You're assuming that GRRM's writing preference is going to significantly change in the next two books, and I don't see much basis for that.
I could see that happening, though I think the at most is being quite generous. Hopefully it's the case and my worries don't come to anything.
I finished the book this morning and liked it for the most part. Really, the only thing that that bothered me was Dany spinning her wheels for another book. It struck me when reading the Drogon in the pit chapter that Martin crafted Dany's previous chapters to build up her and the reader's frustration with her stagnant situation in Meereen. I know I kept hoping she would leave that shithole of a city. It felt like a breath of fresh air when she finally flew with Drogon. That escape of Meereen was definitely a much needed release for Dany and the reader. Here's to hoping that Martin gets her and her army moving swiftly next book.
On a different note, I must have read the Arya assassination chapter way too late at night because I cannot remember how she killed the man in the shop. Will someone please explain what happened there?
On a different note, I must have read the Arya assassination chapter way too late at night because I cannot remember how she killed the man in the shop. Will someone please explain what happened there?
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
venom2124 said:
She gave the other guy one her coins and the target died for some reason. I didn't understand what happened either.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
JerkShep said:
Heh, happened again later with Dany too!
Basileus777
Member
venom2124 said:
The guy bit the coins to test if they were real. Ayra arranged it so he bit into a poisoned coin.
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
Jarmel said:
Thanks for clearing that up.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I thought the Meereen situation was fascinating because of how mimetic it was of real life politics. People on every side want a piece of the pie and you can't please them all -- you HAVE to fuck someone over -- and when you find yourself stalled because you want to please everybody, you take the easy option and run, let the dogs fight over the scraps.Jarmel said:
I literally yelled "FUCK YEAH!" while I was reading this outside and drew some looks when Drogon appeared.
Yeah, but like I said, a lot of the POVs are now together with the other POVs, or COULD be arranged to be quite quickly. If he ever got Tyrion, Dany, Barristan & Victarion together for a longer period and even if they all continued with their own chapters, they could all still keep advancing a common storyline (returning to Westeros/defeating the Slavers) after a few chapters, instead of having mostly separate ones. Same goes for some POVs in the Westeros (North & South). Whereas previously there was three separate ones with Stannis, Asha & Theon, they could also be joined by a common cause, at least for a while.Basileus777 said:
Plus someone like Jon being out of the picture (even he still lives... or... exists, I could see him being off the spotlight for some time) will free up, like, 15 chapters for other characters.
I think many of the still-separate storylines might combine in surprising (and not that surprising) ways. Like what Sansa is doing could very well be tied easily into what happens in the North and thus combine it with storylines from Stannis/Theon/Asha(/Night's Watch). Arya could very well be sent to King's Landing to deal with Cersei/someone for their failure to pay their debts to the Iron Bank of Braavos. Or to deal with someone else, who knows (of course it HAS to be someone that takes her to people who affect the story).
And of course he won't stop world-building, but both A Feast For Crows and A Dance With Dragons are like first novels in a series and much more akin to A Game of Thrones. AGOT started very slowly with all of its world building, AFFC & ADWD are just on a whole different level of world building as it takes on a lot of new regions & factions from all around the world + tries to deal with the downfall of the Starks & aftermath of the war as well. There's so much new that Martin needs to set up (places, characters, motives, history) that it CAN'T advance too fast. While there will still be world-building, I feel Martin doesn't have to do nearly as much of it in the future. Just look at Jon's chapters. While there are some new characters (some wildlings, new recruits), because it is an established location, Martin doesn't spend nearly as much time describing the ancestors and relationships of different families or anything. I believe that is what can and hopefully WILL happen with the more recent POVs as well, in future books. I mean, just compare the early Iron Isles chapters from AFFC to Victarion's chapters in ADWD and after a while most of it is spent on advancing the plot instead of explaining all the traditions, mannerisms and relationships of characters.
The timejumps I meant mostly for the beginnings of the book. He kinda already did it with A Dance With Dragons, with Dany, since she had already gotten somewhat accustomed to rule Meereen when it began while she had only just conquered it by the end of ASOS, instead of going all "on the first day of her rule in Meereen, Dany first took a piss..." For Winds of Winter, it could be like I said for Dany in my previous post, maybe have Aegon already be with the Dornish (or well underway to them), have Jon accustomed to whatever kind of life he may be living after the coup d'etat (and being stabbed possibly mortally at least four times), with Arya being a bit more advanced in her training and Bran being more experienced with his greenseer abilities etc.
I do think those Tyrion chapter's were (mostly) needed (it followed a path of Tyrion being completely lost and not really giving shit about anything, to him perhaps getting back some of that love for scheming he had (at least at first) at King's Landing), even if some of them could've been a bit shorter (and with less wondering about where the whores go).
And we needed to get to know Quentyn and to get a bit more insight on Dorne's plans, plus giving him POV chapters let us see a bit of the Slavers' camps and other interesting things on the way.
I tried Wheel of Time, but couldn't get into it at all. Too many high-fantasy bullshit tropes. ASoIaF uses some of those tropes, but turns them on their heads (at least I hope so. If this Azor Azhai shit and Cersei's prophecy come true without being turned upside down a little bit, this series will reach Wheel of Time levels of bullshit).
ZephyrFate
Banned
Yeah, but the journey is among the dullest you could undertake.darkwing said:
elrechazado
Banned
yeah, talk about overusing lines in this book...when I saw this happen with dany and daario I was really rolling my eyes.Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
ZephyrFate
Banned
I guess I should give my full thoughts on the book now that I have some time:
-Dany's chapters: Pretty interesting, honestly. I loved how immaculate the representation of being a new ruler her chapters were giving us. Her constant struggle between caring for her people and wanting to go home, amongst a sea of people who have knives at her back due to her anti-slavery stance. But then the very end, when she comes to the realization that dragons do not plant trees... well, I can only expect her to head back to Westeros in the next book. She has to. There's nothing left for her in Meereen but a knife for her throat. Plus, fuckin' Drogon. I haven't yelled, "FUCK YEAH!" at this series since Tywin's death.
-Tyrion's chapters: Arguably the weakest by far. Though I did enjoy the fact that we got to see him slowly melt into insanity after the fallout of ASOS, I felt like more could have been done with his chapters in general. He kind of... meanders, though they weren't terrible. I am intrigued to see what he plans to do now that Daenerys has left Meereen temporarily.
-Theon's chapters: Torture porn at its core, but honestly they were a great setup for just how unrelentingly dark The Winds of Winter is bound to be. I really, genuinely felt sorry for Theon, more than anyone else in the book. He's a broken, broken thing and a summation of just how broken all of the characters are in this series. Everyone is so deeply fucked up and flawed that I feel like the characters I most empathize with are the one's that get most shat upon.
-Jon's chapters: Probably the second weakest after Tyrion's. I liked the fact that he attempted to forge an alliance between The Wall and the wildlings, but it appears his fellow Night's Watch comrades don't agree, what with all the knives in his back. I honestly hope GRRM doesn't pull his punches and lets Jon die. It would dispel the myth that there are (any) sacred characters in the series, and that's just fine with me.
-Bran's chapters: For as much magic that has been introduced into the series, I feel like the Children of the Forest were the most bizarre and most enjoyable. We're getting eased into a whole different realm of power and magic and strangeness that I cannot wait to hear more about in the next book. Everything about his chapters are magic.
As for everyone else, I enjoyed Cersei's chapters because I loved her downfall in AFFC and I am excited to see what happens to her at her trial. She kind of deserves to die, though, honestly. Jaime's chapter was the biggest trolololol yet, and Quentyn's death made me laugh hard. The reveal of another Targaryen being alive was such a big gamechanger and it's only going to further screw things up (Kevan's death being the first of many, I assume).
Overall, I enjoyed ADWD more than Feast merely because of the gamechangers thrown at us. Although, I fucking loved Feast and I love all the worldbuilding that these two books have given us. I feel like I've gotten to know Westeros/Essos better than any other character in the series, and that's credit to Martin who people constantly say cannot build a world as rich as any other fantasy author. I say these two books throw that notion out of the water.
The Winds of Winter is going to be fuckin' insane.
-Dany's chapters: Pretty interesting, honestly. I loved how immaculate the representation of being a new ruler her chapters were giving us. Her constant struggle between caring for her people and wanting to go home, amongst a sea of people who have knives at her back due to her anti-slavery stance. But then the very end, when she comes to the realization that dragons do not plant trees... well, I can only expect her to head back to Westeros in the next book. She has to. There's nothing left for her in Meereen but a knife for her throat. Plus, fuckin' Drogon. I haven't yelled, "FUCK YEAH!" at this series since Tywin's death.
-Tyrion's chapters: Arguably the weakest by far. Though I did enjoy the fact that we got to see him slowly melt into insanity after the fallout of ASOS, I felt like more could have been done with his chapters in general. He kind of... meanders, though they weren't terrible. I am intrigued to see what he plans to do now that Daenerys has left Meereen temporarily.
-Theon's chapters: Torture porn at its core, but honestly they were a great setup for just how unrelentingly dark The Winds of Winter is bound to be. I really, genuinely felt sorry for Theon, more than anyone else in the book. He's a broken, broken thing and a summation of just how broken all of the characters are in this series. Everyone is so deeply fucked up and flawed that I feel like the characters I most empathize with are the one's that get most shat upon.
-Jon's chapters: Probably the second weakest after Tyrion's. I liked the fact that he attempted to forge an alliance between The Wall and the wildlings, but it appears his fellow Night's Watch comrades don't agree, what with all the knives in his back. I honestly hope GRRM doesn't pull his punches and lets Jon die. It would dispel the myth that there are (any) sacred characters in the series, and that's just fine with me.
-Bran's chapters: For as much magic that has been introduced into the series, I feel like the Children of the Forest were the most bizarre and most enjoyable. We're getting eased into a whole different realm of power and magic and strangeness that I cannot wait to hear more about in the next book. Everything about his chapters are magic.
As for everyone else, I enjoyed Cersei's chapters because I loved her downfall in AFFC and I am excited to see what happens to her at her trial. She kind of deserves to die, though, honestly. Jaime's chapter was the biggest trolololol yet, and Quentyn's death made me laugh hard. The reveal of another Targaryen being alive was such a big gamechanger and it's only going to further screw things up (Kevan's death being the first of many, I assume).
Overall, I enjoyed ADWD more than Feast merely because of the gamechangers thrown at us. Although, I fucking loved Feast and I love all the worldbuilding that these two books have given us. I feel like I've gotten to know Westeros/Essos better than any other character in the series, and that's credit to Martin who people constantly say cannot build a world as rich as any other fantasy author. I say these two books throw that notion out of the water.
The Winds of Winter is going to be fuckin' insane.
The Dany stuff sucked, but I've never cared for the character, so it was more of the same. I had hoped Tyrion going over would make it better, but it even managed to drag his chapters down.
Also a bummer was lame the how Wall got at times. Then in the final moment, Jon starts believing every single note he's given. He knows he has enemies. Why would he trust a note calling for him to make an overland trip up the coast, or to attack Winterfell?
From Oberyn's fight, I knew Gregor wasn't dead, and I didn't like it. I didn't like Cat not staying dead, and I'm probably not going to enjoy Jon resurrecting. There are too many predictable cliff hangers. As brilliant as the Red Wedding was, all the fake deaths undermine it.
But I loved the Reek stuff. His POV on the Boltons and Freys and the collapse of a treaty made by a bunch of shits was great. Bran and Arya chapters were also awesome, and left me wanting more. Jaime's chapter was GRRM just trolling his fans.
My overwhelming problem is that the story just didn't advance satisfactorily. It felt very Lost-ish in terms of wheel spinning. Someone said earlier that it's basically Book 4 pt 2, and that's about the only way it can be said that worked well from a progression standpoint.
Also a bummer was lame the how Wall got at times. Then in the final moment, Jon starts believing every single note he's given. He knows he has enemies. Why would he trust a note calling for him to make an overland trip up the coast, or to attack Winterfell?
From Oberyn's fight, I knew Gregor wasn't dead, and I didn't like it. I didn't like Cat not staying dead, and I'm probably not going to enjoy Jon resurrecting. There are too many predictable cliff hangers. As brilliant as the Red Wedding was, all the fake deaths undermine it.
But I loved the Reek stuff. His POV on the Boltons and Freys and the collapse of a treaty made by a bunch of shits was great. Bran and Arya chapters were also awesome, and left me wanting more. Jaime's chapter was GRRM just trolling his fans.
My overwhelming problem is that the story just didn't advance satisfactorily. It felt very Lost-ish in terms of wheel spinning. Someone said earlier that it's basically Book 4 pt 2, and that's about the only way it can be said that worked well from a progression standpoint.
People say Martin can't build a fantasy world as well as other authors?
Fuck that. I'd rather read a Faceless Men spinoff than any Aes Sedai bullshit.
I'm fucking glad that there's no Creator vs Dark One crap. Sure we have the Lord of Light, but no one really knows what that is, and it's heavily hinted that he might be completely unreliable or plain evil himself.
Fuck that. I'd rather read a Faceless Men spinoff than any Aes Sedai bullshit.
I'm fucking glad that there's no Creator vs Dark One crap. Sure we have the Lord of Light, but no one really knows what that is, and it's heavily hinted that he might be completely unreliable or plain evil himself.
Basileus777
Member
Puddles said:
There's no real solid evidence that gods exist at all. The old gods are implyed to be the remains of ancient green seers, and the existence of fire magic doesn't mean R'Hillor is the source of it. A lot of it seems like, magic exists, humans developed a form of worship around it.
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