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[q_q]

This is a sign of a fantastic author.

Or a terrible one. I do think Martin is a great writer though.

 

[Famassu]

I agree. What really bothered me about that chapter was how casual Jon was about essentially deserting the Watch. I know he's doing it to protect the Watch from the Boltons, but this is a guy who has been agonizing about his oaths for 4 books, to just get a letter and say ok I'm leaving was so sudden for such an important character moment. I would expect a ton of introspection and pathos to accompany that decision...instead it just kind of happened.

I can't defend Marsh though. All he did was incite the Wildlings to revolt. He'd have been smarter to let Jon leave and then call him a deserter.

Eh? I don't see that as being out of character at all. Jon's clearly been wanting to do all of that stuff but there has always been something holding him back (a massive incoming Wildling attack, him thinking he can't betray the trust of his friends within days of them going through the trouble of getting him elected the Lord Commander etc). He just needed something to push him over the edge, and now he finally got an excuse that could, at least in theory, NOT be considered as deserting the Wall.

It's not like he didn't already try to desert the wall once for his kin, and be tempted to do it again when he was with the wildlings. Didn't Maester Aemon talk about this in, like, the first book? About how someone might have the resolve to stay at the Wall the first time something like a war or lust for revenge is tempting one to leave the Wall, even the second and the third and the fourth, but then when the fifth or sixth time comes, he might leave.

Also, Jon had just as much invested with Stannis as Melisandre and the wildlings. He was the only (somewhat) powerful friend to Night's Watch and his (alleged) death was a huge blow for all of Jon's plans. He couldn't just let that slide together with the threats made to his life by Ramsay (and all that about her sister).

Jon's reaction may be (is) stupid and a mistake, but hey, it's not like all the characters in this series are flawless and not prone to do any mistakes/rash decisions... This was Jon's. The time for retrospection of the decisions he had done will come later if/when he's alive.

 

[Basileus777]

Eh? I don't see that as being out of character at all. Jon's clearly been wanting to do all of that stuff but there has always been something holding him back (a massive incoming Wildling attack, him thinking he can't betray the trust of his friends within days of them going through the trouble of getting him elected the Lord Commander etc). He just needed something to push him over the edge, and now he finally got an excuse that could, at least in theory, NOT be considered as deserting the Wall.

It's not like he didn't already try to desert the wall once for his kin, and be tempted to do it again when he was with the wildlings. Didn't Maester Aemon talk about this in, like, the first book? About how someone might have the resolve to stay at the Wall the first time something like a war or lust for revenge is tempting one to leave the Wall, even the second and the third and the fourth, but then when the fifth or sixth time comes, he might leave.

Also, Jon had just as much invested with Stannis as Melisandre and the wildlings. He was the only (somewhat) powerful friend to Night's Watch and his (alleged) death was a huge blow for all of Jon's plans. He couldn't just let that slide together with the threats made to his life by Ramsay (and all that about her sister).

Jon's reaction may be (is) stupid and a mistake, but hey, it's not like all the characters in this series are flawless and not prone to do any mistakes/rash decisions... This was Jon's. The time for retrospection of the decisions he had done will come later if/when he's alive.

I didn't say it was out of character, I completely understand why he did it. I just thought from a narrative perspective it happened so quickly and without as much internal struggle as I would have expected.

It's a minor issue, it probably was a result of GRRM wanting to keep Jon's announcement as a surprise.

 

[Famassu]

Ah, sorry, I was meaning to quote & answer mostly to elrechazao's post above yours.. He was the one saying it wasn't like Jon to do a thing like this.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Red Wedding. Fuuuuuuck.

That is a creepy song.

 

[Jarmel]

If Jon ends up fucking dead, I'm going to be pissed. All the Starks have been killed by backstabbing assholes so far. Jesus fucking Christ. I wasn't even pissed about the Red Wedding but this has got my blood boiling. Jon did EVERYTHING right and he still got backstabbed.

If he didn't march on the Boltons, they would have marched on him.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I don't think Jon deciding to go south was that bad. He'd been threatened by Ramsay and he had to do something. He doesn't have Theon or "Arya" so if Ramsay were to come north the Night's Watch would be fucked. Castle Black can't be defended from the south.

His "death" is how Martin gets him out of the Night's Watch and we get closer to our 1000th Lord Commander. Bowen Marsh is 999th, but he won't last long.

But yeah, the letter is bullshit. I certainly don't think Stannis is dead and I don't think he even has Manse. There are some theories that Melisandre wrote the letter. That she realized that Jon was Azor Ahai and forced him to do something like that, but I don't buy that.

If Jon ends up fucking dead, I'm going to be pissed. All the Starks have been killed by backstabbing assholes so far. Jesus fucking Christ. I wasn't even pissed about the Red Wedding but this has got my blood boiling. Jon did EVERYTHING right and he still got backstabbed.

If he didn't march on the Boltons, they would have marched on him.

He's definitely not dead. I'd be willing to put money on it. His body may be dead, but his mind is with Ghost. Something will happen with Melisandre and he'll rise again, and I don't even think as some sort of zombie like Catelyn. Melisandre saw in her fires an image of Jon which shifted to a wolf and then back to Jon.

 

[bunbun777]

What I want to know is who's soul is in the black kitty that is messing with Tommen.

 

[bengraven]

What bothered me about that chapter was how casual Jon was about essentially deserting the Watch. I know he's doing it to protect the Watch from the Boltons, but this is a guy who has been agonizing about his oaths for 4 books, to just get a letter and say ok I'm leaving was so sudden for such an important character moment. I would expect a ton of introspection and pathos to accompany that decision...instead it just kind of happened.

I can't defend Marsh though. All he did was incite the Wildlings to revolt. He'd have been smarter to let Jon leave and then call him a deserter.

This bothered me, too. I mean he stood up in front of everyone and said "I'm abandoning you for something personal". I do think someone should have arrested him though...held a trial...then killed him like they do deserters. I mean, going out like Mormont? Marsh better be glad Thorne will be the next LC because otherwise I can see a few Watchmen who would be sent to die in the ice cells.

Also, what are the wildlings going to do without their only connection to the Watch, Snow? We're going to have an all out war ON the wall...in the end the wildlings will get that war on the crows...only not the way anyone expected.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

What I want to know is who's soul is in the black kitty that is messing with Tommen.

It was Rhaenys's cat, so maybe it's her from beyond the grave tormenting the family of the assholes responsible for her death.

Also, what are the wildlings going to do without their only connection to the Watch, Snow? We're going to have an all out war ON the wall...in the end the wildlings will get that war on the crows...only not the way anyone expected.

This is where the assassination was a bit odd for me. If he's smart and not caught by the wildlings outright and Jon "dies", Bowen Marsh should blame it on the Queen's Men. That will give them some time. Tormund will be pissed and he's the most respected wildling leader there. The Night's Watch would be slaughtered if the wildlings turned on them.

 

[bengraven]

What I want to know is who's soul is in the black kitty that is messing with Tommen.

All seriousness, that cat is the one Arya was chasing as well.

And it's definitely Princess Rhaenys's cat "Balerion".

^^^ yep.

 

[Jarmel]

This bothered me, too. I mean he stood up in front of everyone and said "I'm abandoning you for something personal". I do think someone should have arrested him though...held a trial...then killed him like they do deserters. I mean, going out like Mormont? Marsh better be glad Thorne will be the next LC because otherwise I can see a few Watchmen who would be sent to die in the ice cells.

Also, what are the wildlings going to do without their only connection to the Watch, Snow? We're going to have an all out war ON the wall...in the end the wildlings will get that war on the crows...only not the way anyone expected.

Jon wasn't abandoning the Wall really. Again if he didn't assault Bolton, they would have assaulted the Wall in which case everyone would have been fucked.

Also not really looking forward to Jon being reborn as a zombie.

 

[bengraven]

Jon wasn't abandoning the Wall really. Again if he didn't assault Bolton, they would have assaulted the Wall in which case everyone would have been fucked.

But really he was doing something against NW duties. Even if it wasn't to rescue "Arya" (and it totally was his intention), it would have been to save Stannis's men.

"The Watch does not worry itself with the affairs of the Realm".

He should have responded "thank you for your response Mr. Bolton, but we're busy up here defending you from the horrors that flap in the night. Now that we've opened a line of communication, can you send us 100 men to help defend the wall?"




Edit: damn your edit. ha I also don't want him a zombie like Cat. I also hope he doesn't find a new body after warging into Ghost, but I think that's what's going to happen.

I can almost guarantee the first chapter of his will be like:

"He can smell his brothers and sister far away...he is running between the trees with his pack: the one eyed brother, the slinking brother, and the fierce female. He has tasted man flesh. He keeps whispering "Snow" but that's not right..."

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Jon wasn't abandoning the Wall really. Again if he didn't assault Bolton, they would have assaulted the Wall in which case everyone would have been fucked.

Also not really looking forward to Jon being reborn as a zombie.

I was kind of thinking this as well at first as it would probably be the end of the Jon POV chapters. But if all the Azor Ahai shit works out for him, I think he'll be reborn relatively unscathed. Kill the boy and let the man be born.

And now they killed Kevan Lannister. Wtf is wrong with this book. ;__; He was one of the few likable and actually good Lannisters. Maybe a bit boring as a character, but he didn't deserve the end he got.

As soon as I saw Kevan was our POV for the epilogue I was immediately saddened. I liked Kevan too. And I was pretty damn shocked at how he went. Pycelle too! But it was a pretty awesome moment.

 

[Famassu]

And now they killed Kevan Lannister. Wtf is wrong with this book. ;__; He was one of the few likable and actually good Lannisters. Maybe a bit boring as a character, but he didn't deserve the end he got.

 

[Jarmel]

But really he was doing something against NW duties. Even if it wasn't to rescue "Arya" (and it totally was his intention), it would have been to save Stannis's men.

"The Watch does not worry itself with the affairs of the Realm".

He should have responded "thank you for your response Mr. Bolton, but we're busy up here defending you from the horrors that flap in the night. Now that we've opened a line of communication, can you send us 100 men to help defend the wall?"

Edit: damn your edit. ha I also don't want him a zombie like Cat. I also hope he doesn't find a new body after warging into Ghost, but I think that's what's going to happen.

I can almost guarantee the first chapter of his will be like:

"He can smell his brothers and sister far away...he is running between the trees with his pack: the one eyed brother, the slinking brother, and the fierce female. He has tasted man flesh. He keeps whispering "Snow" but that's not right..."

And you think Bolton would let that go? If what Jon thinks happened(Stannis being dead) then he sees no reason why Bolton would not march on the wall to kill the Night Watch who took Stannis's side in the war.

Jon is probably the only likable protagonist now. Tyrion is over doing nothing, Dany too, Jaime is wandering the wilderness on some stupid errand that will probably get him killed, and Bran is chilling in the ice caves. Seriously who the fuck are we supposed to root for if Jon is dead?

 

[bengraven]

And now they killed Kevan Lannister. Wtf is wrong with this book. ;__; He was one of the few likable and actually good Lannisters. Maybe a bit boring as a character, but he didn't deserve the end he got.

I loved Kevan on my re-read. I hated how the show made him into this smug bastard who looked like an Imperial from Star Wars. I can tell the actor must not have read the books and instead was like "I'm the brother of one of the main villains, I must play this role evil as well".

Kevan to me should have been played with more humanity. He's basically his brother, weaker, true, but with more morals.

I was kind of thinking this as well at first as it would probably be the end of the Jon POV chapters. But if all the Azor Ahai shit works out for him, I think he'll be reborn relatively unscathed. Kill the boy and let the man be born.

Oh yeah, his death is dripping with symbolism, foreshadowing, and threats of resurrection. He isn't dead. I would bet quite a bit on that.

 

[bengraven]

And you think Bolton would let that go? If what Jon thinks happened(Stannis being dead) then he sees no reason why Bolton would not march on the wall to kill the Night Watch who took Stannis's side in the war.

But the Watch isn't the type to take offensive when it regards the realm. Their job is North of the wall. They are free to do what they will above the wall, but below they have to follow that principle: "we do not get involved" which extends to "we take threats lightly". They have zero political influence and power below the wall, except for the Gift.

Now if Bolton took the offensive, then the Wall could take the defensive. But not until then.

They're kind of like mopey Jedis.


Now if the Boltons entered the Gift...

 

[Jarmel]

But the Watch isn't the type to take offensive when it regards the realm. Their job is North of the wall. They are free to do what they will above the wall, but below they have to follow that principle: "we do not get involved" which extends to "we take threats lightly".

Now if Bolton took the offensive, then the Wall could take the defensive. But not until then.

They're kind of like mopey Jedis.

If Bolton took the offensive, the Watch would be royally fucked. That letter was essentially a declaration of war.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Even though I was really surprised by his choice to leave the Wall (although I agree Ramsay pretty much declared war and Jon had to do something as Castle Black can't be defended), I was excited at the idea of him leading an army of Wildlings (who would have no problem traversing through the snowstorm) to retake Winterfell and kill the Bastard of Bolton. Still knowing Martin, it would have ended in a disaster. Jon's current assassinated path is probably safer.

 

[shintoki]

Letter was a bluff, pure and simple.
One, it came from Ramsey. He is just acting out in rage that he got played.
Two, Rosen wouldn't have done it. It would mean that he would have to fight another army and if he intended too, he sure wouldn't have told them.
Three, You saw Stannis' army in the winter. They wouldn't be able to travel further North in these conditions without incurring losses themselves. Its not like they have the full support of the North either. Rosen knows for a fact that many are still supportive of the Starks, hostages, etc.

 

[Jarmel]

The letter was definitely a bluff but one that Jon couldn't be aware of. We have the advantage of knowing where Reek and the fake Arya is and that Stannis is alive.

I seriously hope Marsh gets flayed for doing the 2nd stupidest thing in the entire series, the first being the death of Ned.

I do wonder if this was a way for Jon to get out of his vows. He didn't betray the Watch but they betrayed him. Also since he died, he now doesn't belong to the Watch. The problem is that I can't see him becoming King as a zombie. It would almost point to Jon permanently dying later in the series.

 

[bengraven]

If Bolton took the offensive, the Watch would be royally fucked. That letter was essentially a declaration of war.

And you know Thorne is going to ally himself with Bolton and basically throw all of Stannis's people out of Castle Black.

It's going to get ugly.



And yeah, Count, I think we all would have loved to have seen Jon in the godswood, blood on Longclaw, with Ramsay on his back trying to scurry away right before Jon finishes him next to the pool and under the weirwood...with Bran seeing it.

I think it would have been a very sentimental moment as well, with Jon getting revenge on the Boltons for Robb's death and Jon basically being the only "Stark" who could "defend Winterfell". Even Cat couldn't do that FUCK YOU CATELYN.

 

[bengraven]

The letter was definitely a bluff but one that Jon couldn't be aware of. We have the advantage of knowing where Reek and the fake Arya is and that Stannis is alive.

I seriously hope Marsh gets flayed for doing the 2nd stupidest thing in the entire series, the first being the death of Ned.

I do wonder if this was a way for Jon to get out of his vows. He didn't betray the Watch but they betrayed him. Also since he died, he now doesn't belong to the Watch. The problem is that I can't see him becoming King as a zombie. It would almost point to Jon permanently dying later in the series.

Yep, I said that earlier when I accidently clicked the spoiler of Jon's death. This is his way of leaving the Watch to go off and take part in the affairs of the world.

But IF he survives the series, his last chapter will be standing on the Wall, reaffirming his vows. I promise that.

Unless the wall falls, but in that case then the NW won't exist anymore. It wouldn't have to, either, since the end of the series would likely deal with the end of the threat of the North.

 

[Jarmel]

The saddest chapter in the entire series was the Reek one where he mentions how fucked up Winterfell is now and the Bolton flags flying high over the place. I was almost ready to cry.

I was screaming "Fuck Yea" when Jon was going to march on Bolton. Atleast give someone some justice in this series.

If we get this far on HBO, this episode is going to break ALOT of hearts.

Oh and now we have a civil war at the Wall now as the wildlings won't take that lying down.

 

[bengraven]

The saddest chapter in the entire series was the Reek one where he mentions how fucked up Winterfell is now and the Bolton flags flying high over the place. I was almost ready to cry.

I was screaming "Fuck Yea" when Jon was going to march on Bolton. Atleast give someone some justice in this series.

If we get this far on HBO, this episode is going to break ALOT of hearts.

Yeah, he's basically remembering that the best years of his childhood were there. That despite the constant reminder that he wasn't a Stark, he wanted to BE one of them. And they accepted him there.

It was sad to me, too. I hope Theon dies saving a Stark...or just doesn't die...that would be nice as well. But you know Cat is dying to hang him.

 

[Famassu]

This bothered me, too. I mean he stood up in front of everyone and said "I'm abandoning you for something personal".

He read the letter he himself had read just moments before. While there were people on the Wall who didn't appreciate Stannis, there were plenty of those who did, and Winterfell had always been a friend of the Wall. To hear some crazy-as-fuck bastard claim the things he did in his letter, it's easy to see how many of them could have their own reasons to have their blood boiling and how they didn't get behind Jon just because of his feelings about the matter.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

One of my favorite reveals of the book is Cersei mentioning how Littlefinger tried to get himself betrothed to Sansa after Ned was arrested and Cersei shot him down.

 

[Gambit]

Yeah, he's basically remembering that the best years of his childhood were there. That despite the constant reminder that he wasn't a Stark, he wanted to BE one of them. And they accepted him there.

It was sad to me, too. I hope Theon dies saving a Stark...or just doesn't die...that would be nice as well. But you know Cat is dying to hang him.

It was a great chapter and it made me feel for Theon. Contrary to your hope, however, I wish him a death at the hands of a Stark. I want him to become himself again, possibly even on a path to redemption and then I want Bran's or Rickon's direwolf to rip him to pieces.

At best when he has vital information and is wanting to help the Starks or something.

 

[Jarmel]

One of my favorite reveals of the book is Cersei mentioning how Littlefinger tried to get himself betrothed to Sansa after Ned was arrested and Cersei shot him down.

Just as good as the Viserys trying to sneak in Dany's room bit.

I was always wondering if the 998th Commander bit was a red herring, it appears it won't be. I will rage fucking HARD if Marsh is the new POV at the Wall. Will probably be Mel.

I just don't know how Jon coming back as a zombie will affect him personally(personality wise).

 

[bengraven]

He read the letter he himself had read just moments before. While there were people on the Wall who didn't appreciate Stannis, there were plenty of those who did, and Winterfell had always been a friend of the Wall. To hear some crazy-as-fuck bastard claim the things he did in his letter, it's easy to see how many of them could have their own reasons to have their blood boiling and how they didn't get behind Jon just because of his feelings about the matter.

That's true as well and there were NW men getting up in arms when he read the letter. I think Marsh acted alone with his own counsel and this was the final straw.

That said, his crying made me realize he didn't really want to do it. Part of him respected Jon or even liked him, despite the fact that Marsh was Thorne's creature.

It was a great chapter and it made me feel for Theon. Contrary to your hope, however, I wish him a death at the hands of a Stark. I want him to become himself again, possibly even on a path to redemption and then I want Bran's or Rickon's direwolf to rip him to pieces.

At best when he has vital information and is wanting to help the Starks or something.

If it was earlier in the series I would say that will probably happen.

But GRRM is getting soft for his characters now.



BTW, I always read your posts with Benedict's voice.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Just as good as the Viserys trying to sneak in Dany's room bit.

I was always wondering if the 998th Commander bit was a red herring, it appears it won't be. I will rage fucking HARD if Marsh is the new POV at the Wall. Will probably be Mel.

I just don't know how Jon coming back as a zombie will affect him personally(personality wise).

I think Martin said there wouldn't be any new POVs after ADWD so we should be spared Marsh, but that could change. I'm 95% sure Jon will be back as a POV although we may see a few chapters titled "Ghost." But I'm not sure if he'll remain at the Wall. If he leaves then I'm pretty sure Melisandre will follow. Hmm I don't know who it would be. If he does add a new POV for the Wall please please please be Tormund.

 

[Jarmel]

I do think he's coming back as Azor Ahai but in what condition?

Could his wounds have smoked because of how cold it was?

 

[elrechazado]

I do think he's coming back as Azor Ahai but in what condition?

Could his wounds have smoked because of how cold it was?

The dragons' wounds also smoked when they were stabbed...hmmmm.....

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I do think he's coming back as Azor Ahai but in what condition?

Could his wounds have smoked because of how cold it was?

His mind should be fine, his body could be a different matter. Maybe he'll do the whole never sleeping again deal. Still, I think his resurrection, assuming he actually dies in the first place, will be different from any of the others we've seen.

I think the smoke was just from the cold, but we'll have to wait and see. Hopefully within about 3 years, you can do it George!

 

[bengraven]

I think Martin said there wouldn't be any new POVs after ADWD so we should be spared Marsh, but that could change. I'm 95% sure Jon will be back as a POV although we may see a few chapters titled "Ghost." But I'm not sure if he'll remain at the Wall. If he leaves then I'm pretty sure Melisandre will follow. Hmm I don't know who it would be. If he does add a new POV for the Wall please please please be Tormund.

You know, Melony hasn't seen anything about Stannis in her flames for days. She keeps seeing Jon. I can see her following Jon, and possibly assuming Stannis is dead. That's probably why she bolted when Jon read the letter.

 

[Jarmel]

His mind should be fine, his body could be a different matter. Maybe he'll do the whole never sleeping again deal. Still, I think his resurrection, assuming he actually dies in the first place, will be different from any of the others we've seen.

I think the smoke was just from the cold, but we'll have to wait and see. Hopefully within about 3 years, you can do it George!

I hate cliffhangers in books and games. We have to wait 4-5 years to find something out.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

You know, Melony hasn't seen anything about Stannis in her flames for days. She keeps seeing Jon. I can see her following Jon, and possibly assuming Stannis is dead. That's probably why she bolted when Jon read the letter.

I don't have the book in front of me (lent it to my sister, it'll be months before I see it again), but I'm kind of wondering on the timeline of when Mel arrived and left. If she left after Marsh and the others went off angry, it could be that she was going to prepare something for Jon.

 

[bengraven]

Anyone else laugh to themselves when Patchface broke character in panic?

I don't have the book in front of me (lent it to my sister, it'll be months before I see it again), but I'm kind of wondering on the timeline of when Mel arrived and left. If she left after Marsh and the others went off angry, it could be that she was going to prepare something for Jon.

Yeah, she could have seen this earlier.

I wonder if the "black armor" he was wearing is symbolic of the black hand Victarion receives from the priest? What if Jon is "burned" back to life and has a body covered in black burns?

That would also relate to his burned hand which he is constantly flexing. Could be like "he was used to dealing with burns" or "it was hard to flex your entire body".

 

[Retro]

Random Prediction:

Brianne arrives at the end of Jamie's chapter claiming to have found 'the girl'. Brianne says "A day's ride. I will take you to her, ser... but you will need to come alone. Elseswise, the Hound will kill her."

The Hound is the silent gravedigger on the Quiet Island, free from the "Hound" persona and not really aware of who he is. Littlefinger arranges for Sansa and Harrold Hardyng to be married and the ceremony is to take place at said monastery. Hardyng would be coming from Runestone and Sansa from the Eryie; the Quiet island is almost the halfway point.

The Hound sees Sansa, remembers who he is, and starts butchering people as his personality shatters. Brianne is in the crowd because she either knows or suspects that Littlefinger's story about having a bastard daughter is a lie (and out of sorts for Littlefinger who would never admit to such). Her face wound may even be from the Hound himself (as she was being hung at the end of Feast).

It could end with a semi-insane and weakened Hound vs. Jamie with his left-handed swordsmanship, which sounds like a good fight to me.

 

[ezrarh]

Random Prediction:

Brianne arrives at the end of Jamie's chapter claiming to have found 'the girl'. Brianne says "A day's ride. I will take you to her, ser... but you will need to come alone. Elseswise, the Hound will kill her."

The Hound is the silent gravedigger on the Quiet Island, free from the "Hound" persona and not really aware of who he is. Littlefinger arranges for Sansa and Harrold Hardyng to be married and the ceremony is to take place at said monastery. Hardyng would be coming from Runestone and Sansa from the Eryie; the Quiet island is almost the halfway point.

The Hound sees Sansa, remembers who he is, and starts butchering people as his personality shatters. Brianne is in the crowd because she either knows or suspects that Littlefinger's story about having a bastard daughter is a lie (and out of sorts for Littlefinger who would never admit to such). Her face wound may even be from the Hound himself (as she was being hung at the end of Feast).

It could end with a semi-insane and weakened Hound vs. Jamie with his left-handed swordsmanship, which sounds like a good fight to me.

Except Brienne was custody of Undead Cat and her men in her last chapter. It's more likely that she's forced to lure Jaime in alone for Cat and her men to do whatever they want to him. The girl and the Hound is just a fake story.

 

[elrechazado]

Except Brienne was custody of Undead Cat and her men in her last chapter. It's more likely that she's forced to lure Jaime in alone for Cat and her men to do whatever they want to him. The girl and the Hound is just a fake story.

yeah, this

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

The Hound will be back to take on Robert STRONG!!! I wish they'd named him Richard instead of Robert so they could call him Dick STRONG!!! It would be an homage to the Mountain's past as a violent rapist.

 

[Famassu]

Random Prediction:

Brianne arrives at the end of Jamie's chapter claiming to have found 'the girl'. Brianne says "A day's ride. I will take you to her, ser... but you will need to come alone. Elseswise, the Hound will kill her."

The Hound is the silent gravedigger on the Quiet Island, free from the "Hound" persona and not really aware of who he is. Littlefinger arranges for Sansa and Harrold Hardyng to be married and the ceremony is to take place at said monastery. Hardyng would be coming from Runestone and Sansa from the Eryie; the Quiet island is almost the halfway point.

The Hound sees Sansa, remembers who he is, and starts butchering people as his personality shatters. Brianne is in the crowd because she either knows or suspects that Littlefinger's story about having a bastard daughter is a lie (and out of sorts for Littlefinger who would never admit to such). Her face wound may even be from the Hound himself (as she was being hung at the end of Feast).

Random prediction indeed, wtf. The whole "I found her, the Hound has her" was clearly just a plot to get Jaime to that crazy bitch formerly known as Catelyn. I'm guessing Brienne either cracks and tells Jaime all about what he's walking into (and they (try to) escape) or she really does bring him there and there will be "The Hound" (someone is his armor) waiting for them (along with the rest of the gang & Zombie Cat).

And unless someone takes her from there by force, Sansa ain't leaving the Vale any time soon.

 

[ngower]

Quick question:

I'm considering buying the four-pack set for $20, but from my understanding it's the mass market paperback editions. Can anyone that owns these let me know how legible the font size is? I'm not blind, but I definitely have a tough time reading that super small print. It's also obnoxious to hold a book that big open.

Just curious before I make the plunge.

 

[Emerson]

Done the book. Skimmed the last 5 pages or so of this thread and added a couple people to the ol' ignore list.

The book was great. No, it wasn't perfect. There were some editing issues and it's plainly clear that GRRM wanted another 200 pages or whatever. ASOS was better. Pretty much every chapter in the North was ASOS quality or better though. The Essos stuff wasn't the best, but it wasn't as bad as people say.

What I loved:

- Winter
- The north remembers
- Rat Cook. LOL
- Aegon, and his actually arriving in Westeros
- EDIT: oh holy fuck i just realized Mance was Abel

Probably more too. As I said in the official thread, I don't think Jon is Azor Ahai, I think he's a Targaryen. The salt and stars thing is kind of a stretch IMO. GRRM plainly stated Drogon's wounds smoked in the fighting pit and the next time such a thing was mentioned was when Jon was stabbed.

One thing I will say is that I don't think "A Dance With Dragons" is a good name for this book. As we all know, he wanted that title from the beginning and I think he stuck with it even if it didn't describe this book very well.

I've ignored most of the worst offenders, but seriously shut the fuck up with the "8 books if we're lucky, 9 probably LOL" horseshit. You are not GRRM and don't know a damn thing about what "still needs to happen." 8 books is not out of the question but this shit is really old now.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Quick question:

I'm considering buying the four-pack set for $20, but from my understanding it's the mass market paperback editions. Can anyone that owns these let me know how legible the font size is? I'm not blind, but I definitely have a tough time reading that super small print. It's also obnoxious to hold a book that big open.

Just curious before I make the plunge.

It's decent sized. Not huge, but I wouldn't call it super small.

- EDIT: oh holy fuck i just realized Mance was Abel.

Abel is an anagram of Bael. Manse is down in those crypts somewhere.

 

[HarryHengst]

Quick question:

I'm considering buying the four-pack set for $20, but from my understanding it's the mass market paperback editions. Can anyone that owns these let me know how legible the font size is? I'm not blind, but I definitely have a tough time reading that super small print. It's also obnoxious to hold a book that big open.

Just curious before I make the plunge.

I would look to get the hardcovers. More expensive, yes, but it reads so much better. I got a paperback of AGOT and replaced it with a hardcover pretty fast. The books are just too big to be comfortable reading as a paperback.

 

[sharbhund]

Has there been any speculation on what Tyrion knew about Plumm's relationship with the dragons? I haven't read the Hedge Knight series, so I don't know if it's revealed there that the Plumms are an offshoot of the Targaryens.

 

[bengraven]

It's decent sized. Not huge, but I would call it super small.



Abel is an anagram of Bael. Manse is down in those crypts somewhere.

Has there been any speculation on what Tyrion knew about Plumm's relationship with the dragons? I haven't read the Hedge Knight series, so I don't know if it's revealed there that the Plumms are an offshoot of the Targaryens.

I'm curious, too.

And then someone says "Plumms have a drop of Targ blood" and he was like "I got two". Blackfyre bastard?