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Spiderman: Homecoming - Adrian Toomes (The Vulture) isn't working class
- Thread starter jack_package_200
- Start date
I think that's more Stark underestimating Toomes. Had Peter not been on that boat those FBI agents likely would have gotten laid out by Vulture.
But Stark would never have found out about him without Peter snooping. As the characters in the film point out, Toomes got wealthy off arms dealing and stealing alien tech for eight years and nobody noticed. He only tries to steal the cache of Stark stuff that *would* get noticed in desperation. He was still in the grand scheme of things a nobody to anyone important.
Yeah, that's true. Good point!
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Well, in truth someone would notice. The movie just didn't care.
CloudyTuba
Member
This is the truth. The point was that he was a real dude getting fucked by an unreal world (before he became a part of it), squabbling over his job title or how many figures he made is besides the point. Stir that pot, Noah.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
How do you figure? The damage we see seems small-time compared to ravaging entire countries.
Even assuming that Peter manages to make the average salary of a deliveryman working full time in NY ($25K), the average cost of a studio in the less desirable parts of Manhattan, even c. 2004, would still cost more than his entire take home pay. Peter's living arrangement makes no sense.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
That wasn't a studio. A studio has a bathroom.
His bathroom was a public one in the hallway.
He was also late on his rent constantly meaning he couldn't actually pay on time.
Watch the scene.
CookedChocobo
Member
Right? Talk about over analyzing lol.
This thread just reminds me how much I loved Keaton as the Vulture. Easily one of the best villains ever portrayed in a superhero film. I look forward to Marvel milking the hell out of the character now since the movie made bank.
Glad he didn't die, but I'm worried about Sony fucking up his character!
Did we watch the same movie? He was largely irrelevant and only a "threat" because Peter was an idiot and iron man didn't care to deal with him
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I mean, it's pretty obvious that he was working class when he got let go, turned to crime and held that hostility for the upper class, and used it as justification for commiting his crimes because otherwise he felt like he would never get what he deserves working under the thumb of people like Stark.
I don't think he was implying that he was currently working class (Or maybe he did in his own twisted way), more that being working class is a suckers route. His logic was basically that the middle class man shouldn't be expected to play fair and adhere to the law because the upper class doesn't.
It's a fairly common motivation trope for villains.
Most of Spider-Man's rogue gallery wouldn't stand a chance against Stark if he bothered to pay attention to them.
I don't think he was implying that he was currently working class (Or maybe he did in his own twisted way), more that being working class is a suckers route. His logic was basically that the middle class man shouldn't be expected to play fair and adhere to the law because the upper class doesn't.
It's a fairly common motivation trope for villains.
A villains actions aren't the only measure of a good villain.
Most of Spider-Man's rogue gallery wouldn't stand a chance against Stark if he bothered to pay attention to them.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
The movie tries to convince you he's working class which is why they keep telling you they come from the bottom. They reinforce this by him doing things people associate with working class IE welding, salvaging, and working in a shop. It's designed to show you how they both are working their way up (boot straps) but Peter chose to do good while he chose to do bad.
It makes sense and it works just fine but that parallel doesn't sell well when you understand he actually wasn't working class. It's a small nitpick that doesn't change the actual quality of the film.
Vulture didn't do anything. He only met Peter twice. It was only a thing because the writers made happy and tony too busy. He didn't encompass any ideals at all. He's essentially a random arms dealer and Peter is trying to impress Tony. The antagonist could've been anybody
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Ain't gonna bait me buddy.
Well yeah, that's kind of the point, he's the villain. All the best villains can twist their reality to justify to themselves that they're really the good guy.
It's no different than Dr. Doom thinking that he's a loved and just leader when the reality is that he's a dictator whose citizens live in fear or propaganda based admiration of him.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Permanently A
Junior Member
For me the parallel sells fine even if he isn't technically working class. Even if he's a business owner, he was still struggling to make payments and vulnerable to losing everything.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
In fairness, Outside of his home life which is post expansion into the criminal underworld via alien tech we don't actually know his income prior to that. Toomes Salvage Company was basically like 6 people with rental equipment and vehicles. He says he is about to have lose his house when Damage Control show up. It's a city contract which is sold by the city via a bidding war between clients. Toomes probably went pretty low as he kept the staff he had to a minimum by the looks of it.
He very likely was working class and Damage Control / Stark shafted him for the last time and he snapped.
He very likely was working class and Damage Control / Stark shafted him for the last time and he snapped.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Considering your post history in threads like these, you've earned no benefit of doubt. You've said such wildly off shit I honestly didn't even read your post and won't read anything you quote me about.
Even if you make a good point from time to time, it's not worth sifting through the rough to find whatever diamond you may have in there.
honestly, this is a really shitty attitude to have towards a fellow poster.
If you don't read posts, then don't comment on them.
And better yet, if you feel so inclined to judge posters in such a manner, make use of the ignore function. Most of us do to at least someone on the forum, maybe you should give it a try instead of posting in such a manner.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Gonna need dem receipts
Maintenance
Member
Is this about him before or after the first Avengers movie?
Because if he's talking about post-Avengers (after he's the Vulture) I thought it was portrayed almost like irony. He's so blind that he cannot see he's already one of those he was fighting against.
Not enough paper in the world.
Because if he's talking about post-Avengers (after he's the Vulture) I thought it was portrayed almost like irony. He's so blind that he cannot see he's already one of those he was fighting against.
Not enough paper in the world.
BronsonLee
Member
No, Subpar is such a contrarian flop that even Armond White reads his shit and goes 'bruh you're going against the grain too much'
I vote we cartwheel kick him
hey, i often don't agree with Subpar myself, i'm just saying that being a dick while not reading a comment b/c you hate a poster so much suggests you should learn the ignore function.
BronsonLee
Member
hey, i often don't agree with Subpar myself, i'm just saying that being a dick while not reading a comment b/c you hate a poster so much suggests you should learn the ignore function.
SHUT UP DAD
I'm going to the sock hop and there's nothing you can do to stop me~
Mr. Pointy
Member
This pretty much.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
How would that be fun?hey, i often don't agree with Subpar myself, i'm just saying that being a dick while not reading a comment b/c you hate a poster so much suggests you should learn the ignore function.
Also, I don't hate the guy, I just understand what blatant trolling looks like and won't get baited. I read his points when he's debating other people. If I put him on ignore I won't get to laugh at all of the silly shit he says. Plus, every MCU thread would be a graveyard if I did.
n00bsauce87
Member
I think the article tried to argue against an opinion no one made.
But the one person that I would correlate Toomes to Archie's dad in Riverdale. Yeah he runs a construction business and had the collateral or credit to get the equipment, but it's not like he's living the life of luxury.
Hell, we really don't know Toomes financial situation in that moment to assume he was good financially.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Those contracts are won by the folks who bid the lowest. Unless you ignored the dialog, dude hired extra help and bought trucks because he wanted the contract and thought it'd pay off. This isn't new in life..it's a thing that happens. Good cheap work creates more work..
Except that, come the end of the movie, Peter rejects Tony's invitation to be an Avenger. He does so because Toomes insists that people like Stark consistently ignore "the little guy." So Peter chooses to lay low, and stay a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, worrying about the people he thinks the Avengers aren't immediately concerned with.
Toomes' own "fuck you, got mine" attitude aside, there's a part of Peter that agrees with what Adrian is saying.
Froyo Love
Banned
His character's central ideology in the movie is his complaint about how the elites (Tony Stark) and the government are stealing away his opportunities for wealth. Why does that connection seem unreasonable to you?