People who hate Denuvo doesn't necessarily hate the game that used it or advocate piracy you know. Tekken 7 will do a stellar performance regardless of it having a DRM or not because it got all it needs to sell to people: Extremely competent port quality, fair prices for all regions, full of content for either single player and multiplayer. There's online issues but it is not something unfixable. To keep it simple, make a great game with fair pricing, and people will have no qualm buying your games.
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R.I.P Denuvo - Tekken 7 and Dishonored 2 cracked
- Thread starter Elven_Star
- Start date
Chairmanchuck
Member
Check my Steam games list. I would argue I have more games on it than most people. Check out the game lists of people in the Steamthreads with over 4,5k games and they still dont like Denuvo, mainly for preservation and performance reasons.
And yes. It has been proven, that the cracked Rime versions run far better than the Steam version. There are enough reddit posts who bought the game and compared both...
Plumpbiscuit
Member
No it doesn't, Denuvo does not provide a solution, it provides a workaround, which is a hassle for legitimate customers. You're confusing the point of DRM to what Denuvo is actually doing.
Really? We're seeing AAA games getting DRM-free releases more and more often now.
Now you know.
Given all the responses in this thread you would think this is genuinely the case with everyone in the thread.
What has Denuvo done to you all to hate the mere mention of the software?? All I'm seeing is a bunch of Fuck DRM responses and little proof stating that it does impact game performance. Does everyone here hate steam as well? What alternative do you all propose to buying PC games? I'm genuinely curious as every other response in this thread is celebrating the crack.
RedlineRonin
Member
The one noted performance issue not withstanding, what's the hassle for legitimate customers?
BrettHeazy
Member
I'd be very interested in reading reports/discussions from publishers/developers on their use with Denuvo and the speed at which the software can be cracked.
And also seeing how Denuvo respond.
It seems like every crack that there is, it's all just ¯\_(ツ
_/¯ - I dont recall seeing a cracked title, get an updated denuvo patch?
And also seeing how Denuvo respond.
It seems like every crack that there is, it's all just ¯\_(ツ
_/¯ - I dont recall seeing a cracked title, get an updated denuvo patch?
Elven_Star
Member
I have said this before, but I say it again because some people think I'm advocating piracy:
In my opinion, flexible pricing, not DRM, is the answer to the problem. Most pirates are from countries like China, India, Iran, Russia, etc. Buying $60 games is simply not an option for them.
In my opinion, flexible pricing, not DRM, is the answer to the problem. Most pirates are from countries like China, India, Iran, Russia, etc. Buying $60 games is simply not an option for them.
No modding that involves .exe , online server dependent activation (which means your games will go bye bye whenever Denuvo goes down)
Fuck Denuvo.
Velurian
Member
Well, I for one am in favor of DRM and I am willing to suffer through a little inconvenience, if it means that devs who produce great games get through the 1st month without their game being cracked. They deserve the money. With D, I think removing it after 1 month is the best way, to enable modding etc again.
I don't like always online and I think that devs not making game demos sucks, because they expect us to buy games blind, but thank god, steam has a return policy.
I can understand how those who dont have good internet connections don't agree with me.
PS: has anyone checked up on some more recent reports of the effects of piracy? There once was a report that stated that an average pirate is 1/1000 likely to buy the game, which actually meant its pretty decent marketing.
PPS: naturally, aside from ensuring, that I have a legal copy of the game, that should be the only "feature" of DRM (no restrictions, fps loss, etc)
I don't like always online and I think that devs not making game demos sucks, because they expect us to buy games blind, but thank god, steam has a return policy.
I can understand how those who dont have good internet connections don't agree with me.
PS: has anyone checked up on some more recent reports of the effects of piracy? There once was a report that stated that an average pirate is 1/1000 likely to buy the game, which actually meant its pretty decent marketing.
PPS: naturally, aside from ensuring, that I have a legal copy of the game, that should be the only "feature" of DRM (no restrictions, fps loss, etc)
ShadowSoldier89
Member
Modding
Well, the biggest difference is that Steam actually provides me, the customer, with value, whereas Denuvo, by design, at best does nothing for me at all and at worst gives me a lesser experience.
NormalFish
Banned
And then people will hate the new one. DRM sucks. Games will get cracked, so pirates get to play without DRM eventually regardless, so it really only effects people who: are legitimate customers, or would pirate on impulse at release. Not exactly the target market.
I just love people that dismiss completely valid criticism of drm to imply that theyre actually just som o dem pirates!!! because they have a world view of a blind person
RedlineRonin
Member
Got you.
Valid criticisms. I just think there are a lot of folks not acknowledging reality in this thread. Denuvo is only in business because devs/pubs want to legitimately protect their investments from piracy.
Maybe Denuvo has some work to do to allow modding and other things, but the idea that they're just gonna evaporate and devs/pubs will throw up their arms and be like "well, I guess we aren't doing DRM anymore" seems unrealistic.
This, regardless of my feelings toward Denuvo.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Can you show me on the doll where Denuvo cracking touched you?
A victory for game preservation in a FEW digital age
Maybe pubs need to realise that DRM ain't doing shit to help their sales and that they are only affecting their legitimate costumers.
Some people like playing the game they bought years ago without having to worry if the DRM still works. Its better then buying remasters or buying it on VC every new console.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
no, we understand that reality clearly, which is why we constantly speak against it. Everything is unrealistic if you give up. Add in that there isnt even any data backing up that DRM is helping sales, and there is a leg to stand on here.
There is no work on Denuvo to fix what it does with modding. As an anti-tamper solution it locks out the EXE. By its very nature it prevents any modding that utilizes modifying the exe. (Think the fucking phenomenal skyrim script extender, which is required for SKYUI, one of the greatest mods ever).
Chairmanchuck
Member
Does that even work? Pirates existed since the C64 and the industry is flourishing more than ever.
Rime used Denuvo and sold around 16k. I honestly doubt it would sell worse without Denuvo.
Also, like others said, Denuvo sucks. If a dev/pub forgets to remove it, what about in 10 years? Denuvos servers shut down, cant do anything, unlike Valve e.g. who are reliable and even said they have a method that even if they would shut down, you could still play Steamworks games.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Honestly it seems most people who you see here calling everyones pirates are mostly not even PC-Gamers...
Securom was bad. I remember sometimes Trackmania didnt even start because of that shit...
Nod.
Given the win10 store threads and its staunchest defenders, most of the people in favor of Denuvo/DRM probably don't game on pc at all
Love the thinly veiled accusations in this thread. If you don't like DRM, you are surely a pirate???? Fuck off with that shit.
this.
this.
CecilRousso
Member
The best we have is Steamspy, where we can see that Denuvo games doesn't sell significantly more then similiar games without Denuvo.
That said, for developers and publishers, it's most likely just enough that they don't lose money on implementing it. And if the game isn't cracked, then you can be sure that you don't waste support money on non paying customers.
But you can get a lot of badwill by using it also, like in the case with Rime, where a lot of the discussion surrounding the PC version of the game focused on the DRM, rather then the game itself.
Deathknell
Member
I think it's the opposite, this is codemasters after F1 2016 with denuvo
https://twitter.com/Kick_Up/status/862676849071140866
Yeah and great solution for this is that Denuvo gets removed down the line, which some games have done. But even if everyone was required to remove Denuvo, lets say after 2 years, people would still be complaining. Because they can't pirate the game at launch. Completely avoiding Denuvo isn't the only solution, especially when there is an option that's beneficial both to the consumer and the publisher.
They would be complaining because there are still things that Denuvo prevents at the time of release, that have been staples of PC gaming since it's existence.
Removing it years down the road still doesn't solve these problems.
Edit: Oh I enjoy the edit there. It would help if you stopped labeling every anti-DRM advocate a pirate. Really undermines anyone ever listening to any opinion you might have.
Reminder that Denuvo is made by the same dudes that did Securing. Secu fucking rom, the ones that made it so games could have ridiculous activation limits (installed the original Arkham City in more than 5 PCs or even the same PC with hardware upgrades? Fuck you, your game doesn't work anymore!), Securom that was considered such a big risk for backdoors and virus Windows don't even lets you install disc games that use Securom.
NormalFish
Banned
Gotta edit that in so no one's confused about you calling all detractors pirates.
stan423321
Member
For me, it increases uncertainty that the game I installed will not work when launched while I don't have access to internet due to traveling or service outage, which are not theoretical around here - this week I lost internet access for 24 hours for no explained reason. Denuvo was initially promised to be just an anti-tamper for existing authentication but it turned out to involve separate activation servers, with activation being broken by game updates and some undetermined other things.
Sure, I've read that there may be some limitations (not completely restricted) to modding which is a bummer. Don't know if there is anything Denuvo could do differently on that front to not be so restrictive. Probably not while keeping the game "safe".
I don't, but some are. We shouldn't pretend it's only for game preservation and more open platform for modding. That would be really dishonest. Just like not everyone using emulators actually own the games and never have.
RedlineRonin
Member
Again, this whole "fuck Denuvo" thing is pointless. Your points are entirely valid. But the people who should be having the concern voiced to them are the devs and publishers. People are angry at Denuvo for providing a service to their customers (devs/pubs). Voice your disdain with the developers and publishers.
No work on Denuvo to enable modding of EXEs? Voice the criticism to the devs/pubs to tell them that's something that's important to you.
A dev/pub forgets to patch Denuvo out of the game? Hold them accountable. How is that on Denuvo? I genuinely don't even care about Denuvo that much; never really had issues with games I've played that stemmed back to Denuvo, but people are directing anger and "fuck this" mentalities to the wrong place.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
those devs and publishers read neogaf, fuck denuvo is an accurate representation of what we would like those devs and pubs to hear.
And RE: DIRT 4, seems codemasters got the message.
NormalFish
Banned
it could be less restrictive. Or just not exist. Because there's no good evidence that the aspects of its DRM that keep people away from modding said games actually improve how '"safe"' it is.
Yeah maybe they can go back to starting to completely avoid PC altogether right? Don't pretend Denuvo and other new types of DRM weren't brought in because PC piracy was ridiculously rampant a few short years ago. Maybe if Denuvo is being cracked and pirated quicker than they like, they'll see whether the potential sales of their games on PC are worth it to keep putting it on or just say screw it, release some games and hold back others.
No.
If your modding requires editing the .exe in any way, shape or form, Devuno is not going to allow it.
As someone pointed out earlier, a theoretical Denuvo version of Skyrim would have undermined the modding scene that built around that game. An insane amount of mods rely on SKSE, including some I would argue are core to just fixing the game for PC players.
thepenguin55
Member
Because apparently game companies are supposed to be okay with people stealing their games. PC gamers are owed the ability to download and play whatever games they want when they want and for whatever price they want (including $0). Doing this in the name of preservation is a joke. Preservation is great but Tekken 7 literally just came out. We have time to figure how to preserve that game. We're losing stuff from the 70s,80s,90s to such a major degree that we should be focusing on preserving that before worrying about something that just came out a week ago. While there's something to be said about getting ahead of stuff and doing preservation work ASAP preserving something old and deteriorating is far more important that preserving something that's days old.
NormalFish
Banned
I want to point out that literally no one in this entire thread arguing against DRM has made even the slightest inclination that they want to do so to pirate it, but every single time someone makes the post to defend DRM, it's the idea that everyone is a dirty pirate and that's why we need it, despite never being able to provide any tangible proof from any pub/dev willing to admit it actually did anything to help.
And again, considering how quickly DRM gets beaten down every single time it's implemented, at no point is this "stopping" people from pirating the game. Eventually it will be cracked. At first, it'll take awhile. Months go by without a crack. Then it speeds up. Then you reach what we have today. Pirates will wait. They most likely never have any intention of buying the game in the first place. So stopping them from pirating a game Day 1 is no different than them finally being able to pirate it Day 100. They are going to pirate it. Full stop.
So instead of trying to figure out a way to convince people to buy the game (the value proposition), some devs/pubs choose the other route, lock it down and hope to get pirates to reluctantly buy it. Which really doesn't seem like it has worked, every single time DRM has ever been introduced.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I dont really care about preservation, I care about modding. I dont want to wait months for a game to be open to modding.
CecilRousso
Member
Not really, no. Denuvo is actually less restrictive then DRM before it. And many devs/publishers will probably realize that combating piracy will cost more then they gain from it.
Preach, the piracy rate of a Pc videogame is 98% afterall! Publishers would sell BILLIONS of copies without it!
CecilRousso
Member
Because PC games can't possibly be succesful without excessive DRM? We have never seen any examples of that happening?
CambriaRising
Member
Good. Fuck DRM.