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BlackBanditSho · Oct 21, 2017

Hey Gaf,

Soliciting advice from the GAF folks with family.

So I'm working with my wife to get a better grip on our financial future. I've been working in the entertainment industry for almost 20 years and still haven't made a career of it, and as we're both getting older, we're trying to get out of this check-to-check lifestyle. She's got the stable job and I'm between jobs, which has given me plenty of time to think.

I wanted to start a business or own property, but it's just not looking in the cards within the next few years. So, in order to save money, my wife, 3 year old, and I - we're trying to sell most of our stuff and move out of our 2 br apt and into a 1br or studio apt.

It took a while wrap my brain around this decision, but I probably should've done this two years ago. It's a 'shrink to grow' tactic. Shrink small, lessen the footprint, save more money towards investing. In 2-3 years, we can revisit ownership (home or business) , and re-strategize.

For those in Cali, I'm paying 1800.00 for our 2br in Torrance, CA, but now i'm trying to move to something like a 1br and/or studio for max 1300.00.

That potentially 400-500 price savings a month is significant. Not to mention the utility drop due to the smaller footprint.

While i'm not hardcore enough to go Tiny house (wife wouldn't have it), the idea of moving to a less affluent area (which I'm fine with because I grew up that way) took some mental gymnastics. I'm still keeping my daughter in a good private school, but the idea is longer term growth.

Anybody have any ideas on to make a smaller living space sexier for family? I'm just finding out about these cool bunk bed/desk things, and if we get a 1br, we might make the bedroom a closet/playroom/storage, while the living room is our sleeping quarters / living space.

Open to new ideas on how to make it work. Staying positive. This feels like it could be great taking control again.

weemadarthur · Oct 21, 2017

Utilize the full ceiling height for vertical storage.
Get rid of excess items. I can't manage the "100 items" lifestyle personally, but reading about it can be inspirational. It takes a lot of upkeep because cleaning has to happen instantly.

Escape Goat · Oct 21, 2017

Sounds like California is the problem.

Septimus Prime · Oct 21, 2017

Torrance? Have you tried looking at The Vallarta and the properties around there? I lived there for a few years, and the prices were better than what you're currently paying.

I have no idea if they have vacancies or if the prices have increased, though.

Syriel · Oct 21, 2017

BlackBanditSho said:
I've been working in the entertainment industry for almost 20 years and still haven't made a career of it, and as we're both getting older, we're trying to get out of this check-to-check lifestyle. She's got the stable job and I'm between jobs, which has given me plenty of time to think.

Go digital.

Games. Movies. Music.

YOU WILL SAVE SOOOOOO MUCH SPACE.

Individual carts/discs take up little space. A collection can be huge.

Seirith · Oct 21, 2017

You won't go tiny house but you want to put 3 people in a studio apartment? That is a tiny house, its just called a studio apartment and not a house.

Sounds like you just need to find a stable job or move someplace cheaper. My 1900 sq ft detached house in NY isn't even $1800 a month.

BlackBanditSho · Oct 21, 2017

for the responses recommending moving out of Cali, that can't happen. My wife is a cali girl through and through. Besides, her job at is VERY secure (as secure as jobs are in the modern economy), and her whole family is here. We've argued about relocating for years. The only way she'd move from SoCal w/o hating me is if i got an EXTRAORDINARY job. Highly unlikely. I'm a DC/MD guy, so east coast (or even midwest) is appealing, but moving my family out on blind faith w/o a good job just 'ain't gonna work'.

The wife is headstrong and wants to stay within 15 min of her job.

Re: Vallarta - Torrance rates have skyrocketed. 1800 is pretty typical here...if not a little low.

re: Digital - I went mostly digital long ago. Had a huge library of books that I was quite proud of. Most donated to libraries now. Games? Movies? mostly digital.

norm9 · Oct 21, 2017

Jettison at least half your belongings. Your small space looks a lot bigger without a shit ton of stuff. This being a gaming site, you probably have a ton of collectors items and figures. They all have to go. Books? They gotta go. Dvd? They gotta go. Boxes of records? Shred em and dump. Less physical ownership, more freedom and space.

Eta- shelves from ikea? Dump em. Drawers? Dump em. Pretty much dump your stuff. You'll be sad, but it's necessary if you wish to live in a small space.

kirblar · Oct 21, 2017

1 BR seems kinda nightmarish once your kid needs/wants any privacy. (or you from them)

Megalosaro · Oct 21, 2017

BlackBanditSho said:
Hey Gaf,

Soliciting advice from the GAF folks with family.

So I'm working with my wife to get a better grip on our financial future. I've been working in the entertainment industry for almost 20 years and still haven't made a career of it, and as we're both getting older, we're trying to get out of this check-to-check lifestyle. She's got the stable job and I'm between jobs, which has given me plenty of time to think.

I wanted to start a business or own property, but it's just not looking in the cards within the next few years. So, in order to save money, my wife, 3 year old, and I - we're trying to sell most of our stuff and move out of our 2 br apt and into a 1br or studio apt.

It took a while wrap my brain around this decision, but I probably should've done this two years ago. It's a 'shrink to grow' tactic. Shrink small, lessen the footprint, save more money towards investing. In 2-3 years, we can revisit ownership (home or business) , and re-strategize.

For those in Cali, I'm paying 1800.00 for our 2br in Torrance, CA, but now i'm trying to move to something like a 1br and/or studio for max 1300.00.

That potentially 400-500 price savings a month is significant. Not to mention the utility drop due to the smaller footprint.

While i'm not hardcore enough to go Tiny house (wife wouldn't have it), the idea of moving to a less affluent area (which I'm fine with because I grew up that way) took some mental gymnastics. I'm still keeping my daughter in a good private school, but the idea is longer term growth.

Anybody have any ideas on to make a smaller living space sexier for family? I'm just finding out about these cool bunk bed/desk things, and if we get a 1br, we might make the bedroom a closet/playroom/storage, while the living room is our sleeping quarters / living space.

Open to new ideas on how to make it work. Staying positive. This feels like it could be great taking control again.

I have a 2 bedroom in lakewood for 1400 a month.

libregkd · Oct 21, 2017

Megalosaro said:
I have a 2 bedroom in lakewood for 1400 a month.

I was about to say, I know you mentioned your wife wants to stay within 15 minutes of her job but if you go further east into Long Beach, Downey, Norwalk, etc. you could find some 2 bedroom apartments for cheaper (relatively speaking). Sure it's a bit of a longer commute but it isn't THAT much further away.

BlackBanditSho · Oct 21, 2017

kirblar said:
1 BR seems kinda nightmarish once your kid needs/wants any privacy. (or you from them)

I used to think that too. My brother-in-law is actually doing VERY well financially. Two homes. Next in line to run the company he's with. He's doing something similar where his wife and 4 kids rent a two bedroom near Irvine. They're doing the whole shrink to grow thing and he says that his kids are actually happier and prefer to stay in the room together. Or, at least they DID until recently when their oldest, my ten year old nephew, recently had a non-family friend come by and teased him for not having his own room and sharing with his sisters. My bro had to give him that life lesson about being his own man and all, but short of that? It's been more of a class/status worry for his wife ( and presenting appearances for co-workers) than anything else.

My daughter is only 3. We only want to do this for a few years, then revisit. My hope is that she'll love it...for a time.

Megalosaro said:
I have a 2 bedroom in lakewood for 1400 a month.

Lakewood is too far unfortunately. Like I said, this was a super tough sell with the wife, anyway. Even if we weren't downsizing, she's kinda bougie.

She considers hawthorne, inglewood, carson, and gardena 'the hood'. so yeah, combined with the fact that we just got our child into an excellent new private school, moving too far outside of that 15min radius between here and her job in El Segundo, CA is....unlikely.

I like Lakewood, though. And Long Beach. Especially Long Beach.

I'm just trying to make lemonade, man.

So yeah, that's why i'm fielding advice on making a 1br place awesome.

Baraka Obama · Oct 21, 2017

Why dont just put your kid in a public program? Im sure it sounds like a good idea now but that kid is gonna start growing very fast in the next few years.

n0razi · Oct 21, 2017

Time to move out of California

conpfreak · Oct 21, 2017

Find a cheaper 2BR apartment, but do not "downsize" to a smaller unit with a family of that size. Your child is already 3 years old, so a 1BR is NOT going to work. Also, consider dropping the private school if funds are that strapped that you're thinking of sharing an open room with a young child permanently.

xxracerxx · Oct 21, 2017

conpfreak said:
Find a cheaper 2BR apartment, but do not "downsize" to a smaller unit with a family of that size. Your child is already 3 years old, so a 1BR is NOT going to work. Also, consider dropping the private school if funds are that strapped that you're thinking of sharing an open room with a young child permanently.

Agreed. I can't even fathom a studio with a 3 year old.

Megalosaro · Oct 21, 2017

BlackBanditSho said:
revisit. My hope is that she'll love it...for a time.

Lakewood is too far unfortunately. Like I said, this was a super tough sell with the wife, anyway. Even if we weren't downsizing, she's kinda bougie. She considers hawthorne, inglewood, carson, and gardena 'the hood'. so yeah, combined with the fact that we just got our child into an excellent new private school, moving too far outside of that 15min radius between here and her job in El Segundo, CA is....unlikely.

I like Lakewood, though. And Long Beach. Especially Long Beach.

I'm just trying to make lemonade, man.

So yeah, that's why i'm fielding advice on making a 1br place awesome.

Inglewood and Hawthorne IS the hood.

Her job is in El Segundo? Yeah, Lakewood is too far.

smurfx · Oct 21, 2017

nevermind

RedNalgene · Oct 21, 2017

How about looking at this a little differently - house hack your current place. Rent out the second bedroom to a long term renter (or if your city has a tourism market, airbnb the bedroom) and keep your current house. Then, when the kid gets old enough and wants a separate room you're already in a house that can accommodate you. I'd bet you can get more than 400-500 a month renting out the room, as long as your ok with someone living with you in your house.

Hickbilly Deluxe · Oct 21, 2017

Imagine livong in a tiny house. Think of yoir must haves. Reduce to that. Live in studio apartment, win.

It actually is that simple.

mrklaw · Oct 21, 2017

Have you done the maths allowing for moving costs and family upheaval? While at 3 years old you might get away with a 1 bedroom for a few years, it seems an inefficient way to save money. Also that basically means no sex at night unless you do it in the living space after your kid is asleep.

Perhaps you could look at renting out the second room as suggested - keeps you in your place, allows you to adjust quickly if you find 1 bedroom living doesnt work for you.

I'm more confused by the successful family member with two homes that is living with 6 people in a 2 bed. What is his thinking? 'Shrink to grow' sounds cool on the surface, but it just comes to saving money. He could save money by not havin two houses, and you could take your kid out of private school (although things like Montessori were great for my kids when they were preschool age)

Wubby · Oct 21, 2017

I was paying $1700/mo for my two bedroom condo in Irvine in 2005... I'd hate to think how much that place would cost now. People always said Japan was expensive but my two bedroom place an hour outside of Tokyo is only around $400 a month.

Downsize? Figure out what you don't need and sell it on craigslist or ebay. What didn't sell by the time I had to move got loaded up into a uhaul and driven to a dump.

weekev · Oct 21, 2017

wtf at the price of accomodation in Cali. That is insane. Good luck OP. Go digital, and I would probably recommend putting a time limit on making your dreams as your kid is at an age where if it doesnt happen soon you are gonna need to provide a stable income to support them.

LeroyPantwether · Oct 21, 2017

Don't live in a studio/1br with a toddler OP. Dumb.

This isn't something you can frugal your way out of . If you want this to work you gotta make more money or move .

Linkstrikesback · Oct 21, 2017

Syriel said:
Go digital.

Games. Movies. Music.

YOU WILL SAVE SOOOOOO MUCH SPACE.

Individual carts/discs take up little space. A collection can be huge.

Or don't, and buy one of these.

Mines nowhere near full and has around a hundred games in the size of a normal folder.

LeroyPantwether said:
Don't live in a studio/1br with a toddler OP. Dumb.

This isn't something you can frugal your way out of . If you want this to work you gotta make more money or move .

I also have to agree here; I live in what is basically a studio and it's fine for a single person, but I had a neighbor with a wife and single son about your daughters age, and it was pretty trying for them.

BlackBanditSho · Oct 21, 2017

RedNalgene said:
How about looking at this a little differently - house hack your current place. Rent out the second bedroom to a long term renter (or if your city has a tourism market, airbnb the bedroom) and keep your current house. Then, when the kid gets old enough and wants a separate room you're already in a house that can accommodate you. I'd bet you can get more than 400-500 a month renting out the room, as long as your ok with someone living with you in your house.

I considered that but it's definitely not legal to sublet apartments in LA. Also, the idea of strangers in my home with our 3 year old is gross. I listen to too much Sword and Scale for that to ever happen.

mrklaw said:
I'm more confused by the successful family member with two homes that is living with 6 people in a 2 bed. What is his thinking? 'Shrink to grow' sounds cool on the surface, but it just comes to saving money. He could save money by not havin two houses, and you could take your kid out of private school (although things like Montessori were great for my kids when they were preschool age)

His situation is interesting because that's how they were able to afford the homes. Because he misinterpreted the regulations on owning a second home as an income property vs his dwelling, now he's likely going to save up capital, move out of the apt in a couple of years, then move his family into one of the homes. Ironically, the only reason that he even got the apartment is because his job is BIG on people living close to work. It's weird. They're really big brother that way. They *want* everyone to live in that affluent area and sort of judge you if you don't. He's always weirded out by it. Crazy OC behavior/culture, but he wants that money and position so he's taking the lumps until he's running the company and will just move to cheaper Oceanside and make the commute. I wouldn't be comfortable making such compromises, but that's why he's doing well and I'm debating on moving into a 1br with a family of three

weekev said:
wtf at the price of accomodation in Cali. That is insane. Good luck OP. Go digital, and I would probably recommend putting a time limit on making your dreams as your kid is at an age where if it doesnt happen soon you are gonna need to provide a stable income to support them.

I wouldn't even know where to begin anymore. I've played around with the idea of career shifting for years but what i do is in my blood and I just wouldn't know how to do anything else. My talents could work elsewhere, but between the wife being miserable and building an all new network at my age -- it's intimidating. Sadly, of my friends whom i schooled with for this career, Among them I was the most successful. Linger on that for a moment. Regardless, I'm in lemonade mode. Had I the money to buy a franchise and run a Subway or something that I knew would be stable, I'd definitely consider it.

In the meantime, until i can come up with a plan, I'm just trying to make some breathing room, squirrel away money, make solid investments, and enjoy my family while my daughter is young enough to not hate us like a bad 90's sitcom! I figure being present for my family, trying to earn something, and taking such tremendous financial pressure off my wife (and me, frankly) is healing.

This industry sucks in that when you're working, it's GREAT. But, you have to make enough to always plan for the impending INEVITABLE drought that occurs between gigs. I worked for a year at my last company and made GREAT money. I saved and planned for the worst, and now 4 months later, i'm trying to stop the bleed. More than that, though, i'm trying to FIX the problem so that the droughts don't suck and we can survive - and even prosper - on very little.

LeroyPantwether said:
Don't live in a studio/1br with a toddler OP. Dumb.

This isn't something you can frugal your way out of . If you want this to work you gotta make more money or move .

Yes, the thought of moving out of state is REALLY sexy. I drool at those home costs on House hunters and Fixer Upper just like the rest of you. A cousin visited from Dallas recently, extolling how amazing life was there and how cheap you can get mansion-like property while earning a comparable salary with a lower cost of living. The calling was definitely strong and not inconsiderable.

But Trump's America worries the hell out of me. Those cheaper places come with a cost that my black ass ain't willing to pay. A coat of affluence and respectability politics won't save my ass or my family from somebody's hatred at the wrong time.

So yeah, these are the things i consider when the thought of moving out of state into those 'cheaper' areas comes to mind. I want to do it, but unless i get a GREAT job, it's unlikely.

The reason I posted here at all is because of so many uprooted programmers, developers, and designers who work in the gaming industry. Their lives aren't too dissimilar (calamitous) to mine in the entertainment industry. I figured i'd learn from families in those situations to inform my next move.

Parch · Oct 21, 2017

You downsize when you want your kids to move out, not because you want to get closer to them.

Understandable that the economic situation is kinda forcing the issue, but don't use mental gymnastics to try and convince yourself that it's for the betterment of your family. But you gotta do what you gotta do.

Keri · Oct 21, 2017

I wouldn't downsize to a studio, but I think a family of 3 could live comfortably in a 1-bedroom. A young child really doesn't need their own bedroom, so it's doable for a couple more years. Beyond that, the easiest way to save money is to move out to a slightly cheaper neighborhood - which I know you said your wife doesn't want to do, but it's not that much of a compromise. OP, is it possible your wife is so adamant against making these compromises, because she really doesn't want to downsize? This will only work if she's on board.

RevoDS · Oct 21, 2017

It can work for a while but don't expect to stay there more than a few years.

Hell, I lived alone in a studio for 2 years, then 1 year with a gf which was difficult enough because of the size. Even being back alone, I'm still feeling trapped by the small space and can't wait to get out of there next summer.

I don't see how you'll have enough quality of life to want to do that longer term. Short term? Sure, it could give you a nice financial boost.

notaskwid · Oct 21, 2017

Don't move to a 1br with a child lol.
Unless you're willing to turn the living room into a bedroom.
A studio is out of question imo.

BlackBanditSho · Oct 21, 2017

Keri said:
I wouldn't downsize to a studio, but I think a family of 3 could live comfortably in a 1-bedroom. A young child really doesn't need their own bedroom, so it's doable for a couple more years. Beyond that, the easiest way to save money is to move out to a slightly cheaper neighborhood - which I know you said your wife doesn't want to do, but it's not that much of a compromise. OP, is it possible your wife is so adamant against making these compromises, because she really doesn't want to downsize? This will only work if she's on board.

she's on board because the situation has become untenable.

entremet · Oct 21, 2017

Is the private school non-negotiable? That sounds like a budget killer.

Zaphod · Oct 21, 2017

I think your wife needs a bit of a reality check. If you're struggling, the 15 minute commute demand seems a bit much, private school is also super expensive. Living in a cramped studio with a toddler sounds like a nightmare to me.

kirblar · Oct 21, 2017

entremet said:
Is the private school non-negotiable? That sounds like a budget killer.

For pre-school they're pretty much all private though, right?

Moving to a place with good public schools (instead of paying for private) would seem to make more sense once she's in Kindergarten.

AudioNoir · Oct 21, 2017

Look up some YT videos on minimalist lifestyles. I dont consider myself a minimalist, but some of those videos did help a lot in understanding quantity vs quality.

Husband and I have thrown out or donated so many things, and dont miss any of it. We also have a one item in, one item out rule, which includes the kid toys.

As for the job situation... I dunno man. Best of luck to you guys.

DonShula · Oct 21, 2017

Entire OP makes me claustrophobic. My kids are 5 and 7. I cant imagine such tight living space with a child. Maybe you guys are wired differently and thats cool.

All I can advise is that youre probably selling short out of state living. I know your wife said shed never have it. But man... youd cry to see what your rent could get you as a mortgage payment in the Midwest. We arent all racist hicks out here either... the population centers still lean left.

entremet · Oct 21, 2017

kirblar said:
For pre-school they're pretty much all private though, right?

Moving to a place with good public schools (instead of paying for private) would seem to make more sense once she's in Kindergarten.

Ah yes. Pre-school at 3? Didn't know they start that early. I assumed Day Care at that age.

mhayes86 · Oct 21, 2017

A 1BR, 750sq/ft apartment was feeling cramped with me, my wife, and our dog. I couldn't imagine adding a 3 year old into that, even with downsizing.

BlackBanditSho · Oct 21, 2017

mhayes86 said:
A 1BR, 750sq/ft apartment was feeling cramped with me, my wife, and our dog. I couldn't imagine adding a 3 year old into that, even with downsizing.

LOL! I was hoping to get at least a 400-500sq/ft 1br apt in Hawthorne (kind of hood) in my area for $1100-1300.00! My current 2br apt is just under 1000 sq/ft. From my searches, 400-500 is typical.

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