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Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales|SPOILER THREAD| Salazar’s Revenge

As someone else said.. the eventual Little Mermaid/Pirates crossover is going to be epic :)

I know I have been kinda wanting it for a while, honestly OST might have put the idea in my head.
Normally I hate fan suggested crossovers but man I think it would really work and be pretty neat.

Just the aesthetic carried over would be cool.
 

Toothless

Member
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales is a shattering disappointment. The return of Will and Elizabeth, a villain played by Javier Bardem, and a much more interesting choice for directors this go-around should've added up to so much more. Instead, there's a film with three distinct issues:

- First, the plot completely disregards the rules set up within this universe. It feels as though the writers wanted to go out of their way to destroy the stakes of the previous films, blatantly ignoring some key bits of the worldbuilding just so they could have their "Save Will" plot. (Will is not cursed; to even attempt to free him from the Dutchman would cause major issues in ferrying souls to the afterlife, and I could go into more detail but I doubt any of you care.)

- That leads to the second issue, which is that the film picks the wrong main character. The strongest character arc belongs Scodelario's Carina and she's notably the only new character that's actually memorable. She ties into Sparrow and Barbossa's story a lot better than Henry, despite Henry being Will's son.

- The final issue is Johnny Depp. He isn't playing Jack Sparrow here. It's both the fault of the writing and his performance but even in On Stranger Tides, he feels like Captain Jack Sparrow, a unique character with his own agency and memorable moments. Here, he has finally become annoying, as he falls out of character time and time again for the sake of joke that doesn't fit in. Depp doesn't even do the voice right and always plays him even broader than he's ever been in previous installments. He has finally become annoying.

It's not to say the film doesn't have strengths. There's a few great setpieces, especially one that uses a guillotine in a truly wacky way. Scodelario, as previously mentioned, is great in it, and Rush gives yet another excellent performance as Barbossa, the only legacy character this film gets right. Bardem is sadly forgettable, as the film doesn't do anything really interesting with the fact that he's the first cursed villain in the franchise that isn't a pirate. Yet, Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales sadly proves what many have been saying for a decade now. This franchise should've ended when Verbinski left, as everything after it has been a useless footnote in these characters stories, an endless epilogue without any agency, slowly ruining the franchise's legacy with every new film. It's time to leave these dead men to rest.
 
(Will is not cursed; to even attempt to free him from the Dutchman would cause major issues in ferrying souls to the afterlife, and I could go into more detail but I doubt any of you care.)

I would say this is heavily connected to Davy Jones' return so we can't really judge it till we have more information.
 

Joni

Member
I thought she would be his daughter.

Edit: Will is cursed but that means Elizabeth cheated on him. Although, honestly, only being able to land once every ten years is also a curse.
 

Monocle

Member
Whether or not you're troubled by this movie's flaws depends a lot on what you're looking for. I wanted:

- a fun adventure
- ghost story elements like those in the original movie. Stuff that would make good fodder for a sailor's spooky tales
- engaging characters
- more of Jack Sparrow's hijinks
- an expanded mythology, adding to what was established in the previous movies

I got all of that, so I was fairly satisfied.

Dead Men Tell No Tales is definitely not the worst of the series, as the RT score would suggest. Maybe second worst after On Stranger Tides. I've found all of the Pirates sequels to be pretty close together in terms of quality. They all have their failings, with only the original setting itself apart as a clearly better movie with few if any odd tonal issues, character problems, or fat to trim.

I can say that Dead Men Tell No Tales generated a ton of goodwill for me with its entertaining first act, and held it in the second with charismatic characters like Salazar and Barbossa, who faltered only when their enormous personalities were stifled by plot movement.

It wasn't fun to see Barbossa as a helpless captive, and I was less than happy with his sacrifice at the end, which seemed like a predictable and unecessary attempt to give his arc an unearned note of tragic nobility. This could have worked in a movie that put Barbossa front and center from the beginning, and spent due time developing his relationship with Carina.

I thought the final act was mostly a rushed anticlimactic muddle, full of elements that weren't properly introduced or developed. The Trident of Poseidon, Carina's diary and the ruby that solves the puzzle on the island, the island itself (which somehow perfectly mirrors the night sky with loose sediment and gemstones? What?), Salazar's out-of-nowhere ability to possess a human... The whole climax was a real fumble. (Although the very end was alright.)

I didn't mind the tie-ins to previous films. It was good to see Elizabeth and Will again. I liked their reunion. I was even OK with both of the main supporting characters being children of major characters, improbable as it was for them to meet each other, and Jack, and Barbossa, etc.

Dead Men Tell No Tales actually has its fair share of the things I enjoy in this series. It's an entertaining ride. Where it fell short, it rushed to hit its plot point, or didn't capitalize on the strengths of its own characters, or failed to take the right lessons from the original. The first Pirates never tried to get around developing each important character and key element. It had a cohesive story that justified each important plot point and event, whether it was a supernatural curse, or a special relic, or a daring act from a usually well behaved character. No shortcuts, just a good character driven story that didn't overextend itself with massive stakes or sudden emotional turns with insufficient buildup.

If the series continues, Jack needs to be at least as clever as he is bumbling, like in the first movie. The villain shouldn't have a convenient personal connection to Jack. The plot shouldn't aim for world shaking stakes. The Pirates series is best when the characters are thinking on their feet, chasing a goal, or deploying their charm and wit in the midst of some sort of conflict or peril. Make it character driven, and don't take shortcuts with deus ex machinas or contrived revelations, and you've got yourself a great Pirates film.
 
Whether or not you're troubled by this movie's flaws depends a lot on what you're looking for. I wanted:

- a fun adventure
- ghost story elements like those in the original movie. Stuff that would make good fodder for a sailor's spooky tales
- engaging characters
- more of Jack Sparrow's hijinks
- an expanded mythology, adding to what was established in the previous movies

I got all of that, so I was fairly satisfied.

Yup.
 

Beefy

Member
Worst Pirates. Depp's face looked bloated as well, dude needs help. I got bored way too much watching this.
 

Lumination

'enry 'ollins
- a fun adventure
- ghost story elements like those in the original movie. Stuff that would make good fodder for a sailor's spooky tales
- engaging characters
- more of Jack Sparrow's hijinks
- an expanded mythology, adding to what was established in the previous movies

I got all of that, so I was fairly satisfied.
I have a love-hate thing going on with this movie right now. It got the fundamentals you listed all there, but the execution sucked.

For the first time (at least to me), it seemed like Jack has fully become this imbecile with no plan, no outplay, no anything really. I'm not even really sure he needed to be in the film. Not sure why they needed the Trident to be essentially a universal redo re: curses. Just so they can bring back Davy Jones? Pass...

I actually thought the humor sections were great. I laughed more often than I remembered compared to the older movies. But the main plot felt way too rushed, maybe because of the fluff scenes, I'm not sure. Barbossa got like 20 seconds of mourning for god's sake. It didn't feel like an adventure. It felt like funny scene -> funny scene -> we're there!

Also no Dutchman vs Salazar fight. The most obvious thing they could've done. For shame.

Overall, I saw the potential (unlike 4), but it sort of fell flat at every turn except for the comedy elements.
 

zeemumu

Member
So I'm watching the 3rd Pirates movie and now I'm 90% sure that Calypso brought Jones back to get back at Will for backing out of his duty. He's probably still all corrupted as punishment for betraying her.
 

Kyne

Member
It's talk like a pirate day.. and I watched this for the first time yesterday.

It was REALLY bad. Like, holy fuck they ruined Jack Sparrow. Every single word out of his mouth was 1) a bad joke and 2) high pitched (wtf?)

He had 2 serious moments in the entire film where he didn't sound like an imbecile. 1) When he kicked up the sword to pass it to Barbosa and 2) His last line about the horizon etc etc.

That's it. Literally 2. Every other scene was a bad high pitched joke. Like, was this Johnny Depp? Or was it the director's choice to ruin the character?

God damn.
 
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