TBH in retrospect it seems like the game was always going to be shitty, the only variable being graphics.
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Dev talks: What went wrong with Duke Nukem Forever [dishonesty, consoles, budget]
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TBH in retrospect it seems like the game was always going to be shitty, the only variable being graphics.
MaximoffZero
Banned
Agreed. No matter what you went through, that's just a douchy thing to say.
I always viewed Duke as sort of a parody character poking fun at 80s/90s action heroes and the "tastelessness" was done ironically. Maybe I'm being naive, I don't know.
MrCunningham
Member
Check out the original1998 trailer that would have used the Quake II engine, you can see Bombshell running around near the end of the video:
She was originally going to be voiced by Lani Minella, from what I remember.
Duke Nukem 3D was the third game in the series and DNF was the forth. The first two games were 2D platformers.
Duke Nukem
Duke Nukem 2
Duke Nukem 3D
Duke Nukem 4Ever (Forever)
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Yeah.
Any game that takes forever to make is mismanagement, plain and simple. It wasn't "oops, now we need to spend five years developing for the next gen".
MaximoffZero
Banned
Don't forget the Manhattan Project, which I thought was a decent (though not great) 2D platformer.
s_mirage
Member
I don't know, but I do wonder when the rot set in. Post 2001 it almost sounds as if the team were just given free reign to create stuff without any sort of ultimate direction or leadership. Was that always the case or did the situation just deteriorate over time? Unless I missed it the quote does not say whether that developer was there from the start or not, and he seems to be talking about the later years.
jim-jam bongs
Member
I'd call it more of an homage, but you're spot on. His best lines were all references and direct quotes of cheesy 80s action heroes, like "I came to kick ass and chew bubblegum, and I'm all outta gum" which is a paraphrasing of Rowdy Roddy Piper in They Live.
Duke 3d was also really inventive for the time. So many weapons, so much over the top action, so many environments, incredible level design... Nobody wanted to believe it was all a fluke, but Forever just reinforced the cliché that lightning never strikes twice.
Ugh. Not interested. I thought the ROTT reboot was really poor. Shadow Warrior was better in every way, IMO.
SolidSnakex
Member
Here's an old post from a dev of the game talking about which aspects of that trailer was real, realish, scripted, fudged, or fake
http://forums.duke4.net/topic/4164-dnf-2001-breakdown/
BlackLagoon
Member
To me the 1998 and to a certain extent the 2001 contain a fair number of things that would have been impressive and unique at the time. They seem to have the basis for a worthy sequel to one of the most influential FPSes of the 90s.
Well, the game design in DNF seems very heavily rooted in the early-mid 2000s (think Half-Life 2), so to me that seems to be where the game started stagnating.
Yup, fairly sure the original Duke Nukem was the first game I ever owned. We've got photos of a pint-sized me on some distant Christmas Day clutching a copy of it. Can't even imagine how many hours I sunk into it (and Duke Nukem 2) on our old 486.
It bugs me a little when people act as if the series started in 1996.
MrCunningham
Member
Yeah, Manhattan Project wasn't too bad. There was also a 2D platformer on the GBC as well, which was loosely based on Duke Nukem 2.
What's actually interesting is that Duke Nukem Forever started out as a 2D platformer. It was going to be a throwback to the original sidescroller games. The FPS sequel to Duke Nukem 3D was just going to be called Duke Nukem 4. Apparently these were real WIP screenshots from the original Duke Nukem Forever platformer: circa 1995 or 1996:
3D Realms cancelled the game, but reused the name for the Duke Nukem 3D sequel. Though This early build of the Duke Nukem Forever platformer was reworked into a DOS game called Alien Rampage, which was released in 1996: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl3wThNVvVA
Demon Lizardman
Banned
Wow, what a phenomenal reading experience. Just goes to show that sometimes you have to say something just to save a project even if it will hurt the creator. That and the fact that sometimes limiting something for the consoles is not a good idea.
Don't throw around blanket statements like that, Team Fortress 2 was in development for at least 9 years and it turned out great. It went through at least 3 versions that we know of, a realistic military style game, a Half Life universe version and the version they finally released.
In fact TF2 was often considered a joke or vaporware much like DNF until it finally came out.
RedAssedApe
Banned
makes me sad. Duke3d was up there with Quake and Doom at one point. to gamers who didn't grow up in that era its just a joke now 
makes me sad. Duke3d was up there with Quake and Doom at one point. to gamers who didn't grow up in that era its just a joke now
Thankfully I still have my fond memories of direct-dialing my friend's modem and spending endless hours DukeMatching. Forever couldn't take those away from me.
Fun fact: If Half-Life 3 doesn't release before October 3rd, 2015, it'll surpass TF2 as Valve's longest-gestating project.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Equating how Valve works to a majority of the industry is misguided.
Jazzkokehead
Member
Well, that's disappointing. The new Rise of the Triad game largely missed the mark for me. I suppose it's better than a Gearbox developed Duke game, though.
What? No. The nail in the coffin was that George never had a release date. The dev team/3D Realms of old never told him "no" and vice-versa to get a release date done.
It's only after seeing Prey sell well on consoles that, George (once again) got the "bright idea" to add more to Duke Forever, and this is what finally sobered him up from that "when its done" reality.
Rlan said:
Time to Kill was mediocre and a third person shooter. Duke (since 3D) was the FPS series besides Doom/Quake at the time. Then Duke Forever started to go into Dev hell and Half-Life came out and then Quake 3 and then Call of Duty 4 and...
Really, the take away from here is that George can't take criticism for the "darling" he created that was "cutting edge" back in the day and didn't adapt to newer development practices. "When it's done" only cuts it when you have a clear goal, something George didn't have.
It's also something that makes me wonder if iD's own "when it's done" mantra harmed them in regards to engine licensing and the "tech demo" games they've released post Q3A to show their engine off to licencors.
I think id's engine business was a side effect of having the best on market tech at times. There was not a lot of(any?) staff doing engine dev specifically for licensees or support. At some point before Unreal Engine 3 Epic had staffed up to license the engine as a main part of their business.
If id was doing games every 2 years before/post Q3 they may have gotten a few more customers in the transition period but eventually the more specialized firms would be in the positions they are in today.
In a way their not focusing and just handing people all the code worked out pretty good for gamers with gold source, RTCW, Jedi Outcast and more being great controlling games with good netcode. Licensing one of the big packages today doesn't automatically make a game best in class like id was doing then.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
It sounds exceedingly bitter, but it also devalues all the hard work we all put into the job and industry we love.
alexandros
Banned
It always is.
Solid SOAP
Member
It's interesting to think what kind of game this would have been if they simply run the course and continued development for it on the PC. Would it really have been that different? Would the levels be more expansive with more to do than they currently are? I would honestly watch a documentary or read a detailed book highlighting the game's development, from when it began as a promising project to when the first bits of woe began to become apparent.
I don't understand why things such as the level editor and having more than two weapons at once had to be removed, however. I hate this modern trend of only being able to carry two weapons at once, it's bullshit and simply makes gameplay less creative & fun. Especially a character like Duke who is prided on being a satire on masculinity and overzealousness, you'd think that this character would be able to have a ridiculous amount of firearms on him at once.
I don't understand why things such as the level editor and having more than two weapons at once had to be removed, however. I hate this modern trend of only being able to carry two weapons at once, it's bullshit and simply makes gameplay less creative & fun. Especially a character like Duke who is prided on being a satire on masculinity and overzealousness, you'd think that this character would be able to have a ridiculous amount of firearms on him at once.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
I remember the endless release dates, the teasing holiday cards and - most of all - Broussard's smug insistence that DNF would only come out, "when it's ready."
jim-jam bongs
Member
It's actually pretty funny that "when it's ready" has become the stock response of a lot of devs when asked about their next game, without even a hint of irony.
So there should be consoles exclusives then right? Because, clearly, pc gamers don't want games constrained by console hardware.
Isn't this the occasional danger of leading on pc in regards to multi-plat games? Finding out later on that it can't be ported and the design is quickly butchered.
What they are working on can´t be worse than DNF. They actually started by creating a modernized version of Duke3d in Unreal Engine 3 but were shut down by Gearbox.
Probably because they saw that their work was a lot better than what they had with DNF. Pitchford believes himself to be a Duke fan yet he fucking sucks at judging a Duke title.
Yeah it´s all business but apparently (going by the devs post) Gearbox didn´t do much to improve the game after buying it.
I've just been watching Interceptor's new office tour video on Youtube, and while they black-bar the art pinboard when it's on-screen, you catch a glimpse in a poster reflection:
I've flipped the snippet from Facebook to be "reflected" and it looks like they're the same thing. The guy doing the tour says that the board "has a lot of art from our next game".
EDIT: Also interesting to note that back on the 28th of November, Frederik Schreiber (the CEO at Interceptor) posted the following on the Duke4.net forums:
Frederik Schreiber said:
AHA-Lambda
Member
bishock infinite?
edit: oh shit just noticed why this was bumped. Don't think I want another game from Interceptor after how crap RotT was.
lifeexpectancy
Member
If you read the whole thing you'd realize that is a grossly innacurate statement. The game was already destroyed long before the decision to release on consoles was made. The decision to release on consoles just served to further damage what was already a broken product for the vast majority of its life cycle.
Consoles don't destroy games. Poor development, miscommunication, lack of direction, poor QC, and starting off with an ancient engine and trying to shoe-horn it into (what was back then) modern hardware destroys games.
Sheesh...
Edit: Didn't realize the thread was bumped from weeks ago... carry on folks, nothing to see here.
Hamster Plugin
Member
Stupid Facebook likes. Anyone want to show a screenshot of the text when you have liked the page?
Edit: Fuck, I just realized what it is, you need 10k Facebook likes. Stupid.
New thread for new news?