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12 years later, Majora's Mask is still blowing my mind

Tookay

Member
Pretty much. OOT and MM had a lot of this kind of writing and imagery, and I feel it's been absent in Zelda games since, unfortunately.

I'll give you MM, but I'm not really sure where you're coming from on OoT. I love that game, but its writing is pretty simplistic and its characters/plot are straightforward; there's not much ambiguity or room for interpretation.

(Unless you're counting just the hardware limitations making things slightly more ambiguous or factoring in the context of the era, where the internet didn't spoil everything for us.)
 

Shion

Member
I still need to play Skyward Sword.
Majora's Mask is the game with the richest soul in the series. Skyward Sword is the exact opposite imo.

I'll give you MM, but I'm not really sure where you're coming from on OoT. I love that game, but its writing is pretty simplistic and its characters/plot are straightforward; there's not much ambiguity or room for interpretation.

(Unless you're counting just the hardware limitations making things slightly more ambiguous or factoring in the context of the era, where the internet didn't spoil everything for us.)
Ocarina of Time had some great writing. The Sheik quotes in particular, are awesome.

"Time passes, people move. Like a river's flow, it never ends. A childish mind will turn to noble ambition. Young love will become deep affection. The clear water's surface reflects growth. Now listen to the Serenade of water to reflect upon yourself."
 

The Hermit

Member
I'm convinced the writing is the reason why OoT and Majora's Mask continue to be the best Zelda games today. Mood and writing.


So true, its probably one of the darkest Nintendo games.

One example would be the implicit story of the Deku Butler’s son. Upon being transformed into a Deku Scrub, Link finds a strange tree that resembles his present shape and seems to be crying. Later, Link meets the Deku Butler, who is reminded of his absent son when he sees Link’s Deku Scrub form. At the end of the game, the Deku Butler is seen crying before the strange tree. Though the game never bluntly states it, it is clear that Majora’s Mask forced Link into his Deku form by stealing the soul of the Deku Butler’s son, leaving an inanimate tree in his place.

now this blowed my mind

Also the deku scrub mask being so sad made me really unconformable...
 

Cygnus X-1

Member
Edge said:
However, for most, what they remember of Majora is its people. The repeating cycle of three days and three nights allows the game to introduce you to the citizens of Termina in an organic and believable way. Rather than being met by lumps of text or awkward speeches, you find out about people by seeing how they live, meeting them as they circle again and again through the last few days of their lives. Even the most incidental characters – the town guards and the officious Deku traders – let slip little human details which add enormous emotional weight to the game. And, as Link does his rounds, his place in the gameworld changes. At the start, you are the very definition of an outsider, wandering lost and wordless around a strange and uncaring town. By the end, you are privy to everyone’s most personal secrets. You know what they’re going to do next even before they’ve decided for themselves. Saving the world is the easy bit. You’ve done that in nearly every videogame you’ve ever played. In Majora’s Mask you save the world by saving the world’s people, one flawed, fragile and fascinating person at a time.

Fantastic passage. I agree completely.
 

tassletine

Member
You nailed it! That's exactly why Majora's mask is so great.

When you piece together the stories in your own head it's overwhelmingly chilling. The way everyone reacts differently to their impending doom is one of the best constructed events in gaming history I believe.
Poe said that art is the only place where you can experience the feeling of 'the uncanny' more than real life -- The uncanny being that feeling of unease, like a ghost's in the room.
If this game doesn't live up to that definition of art I don't know what does.
 

effzee

Member
Its frustrating to see that even though the Zelda games that have followed have been great, maybe even better in terms of gameplay and dungeon design, none have been able to duplicate the sort of experience MM provided in terms of dealing with towns people and making them a part of the game completely.
 

Woffls

Member
Cremia is letting Romani drink the Chateau Romani and sleep in her bed that night in order to put her at ease and numb the pain of being engulfed by the moon in mere hours.
Holy shit. This game.

I give up with placing Zelda games in order of preference when I think about Majora's Mask. It's inferior in a number of ways, but the way it makes me feel when playing it is just unparalleled. Wind Waker also stands out in that regard.
 

Anth0ny

Member
I'll give you MM, but I'm not really sure where you're coming from on OoT. I love that game, but its writing is pretty simplistic and its characters/plot are straightforward; there's not much ambiguity or room for interpretation.

Lo1fV.gif


This guy gave his life to buy Impa and Zelda time, and I bet you never even knew he existed!

59eUt.jpg


This girl is fucking creepy.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Thanks for proving his point I guess?

A character dying in a back alley (that actually makes reference to the main story) 90% of players probably missed entirely is straightforward?

A girl with a shit eating grin replacing a NPC and informing the player that getting lost in this whimsical forest will turn you into a Stalfos? Not up for interpretation?

That writing and those characters are more interesting than anything in Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword. I remember these random characters from my first play through of OOT almost 10 years ago. I can barely remember anyone from Skyward Sword and I played that game 3 months ago.
 

MrOogieBoogie

BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
My favorite thing about Majora's Mask is how open it is to interpretation. Part of the fun of the game is just talking about it. I can't think of another game that fosters as much discussion as this one, every single time.
 

Seronei

Member
I absolutely adore Majora's Masks story and world, but I still feel like the dungeons are among the worst in the series and it's still one of the only Zelda games I haven't completed.
 

Cygnus X-1

Member
I absolutely adore Majora's Masks story and world, but I still feel like the dungeons are among the worst in the series and it's still one of the only Zelda games I haven't completed.

Who cares about the dungeons. A dungeon-centric Zelda is not synonymous of greatness. Twilight Princess is the typical example.
 

MrOogieBoogie

BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
Who cares about the dungeons. A dungeon-centric Zelda is not synonymous of greatness. Twilight Princess is the typical example.

"Typical example." Right. To who?

Twilight Princess is a fantastic game dripping with atmosphere, not unlike Majora's Mask.
 

Seronei

Member
Who cares about the dungeons. A dungeon-centric Zelda is not synonymous of greatness. Twilight Princess is the typical example.

I cared enough to put the game down because I got bored in the dungeons. The game doesn't need to be dungeon-centric they just need to not be boring, which I found them. I want to go back and complete the game. But I'm not sure I'll manage.
 

Dr.Hadji

Member
Who cares about the dungeons. A dungeon-centric Zelda is not synonymous of greatness. Twilight Princess is the typical example.

Dungeons are greatest culmination of tests of your skills in the game. Weak dungeons weaken one of the three pillars of a Zelda. To MM's credit, the weakness in that area is compensated in a beefier NPC, quest system. Some people think that's a fair trade, others don't. Though it probably does have the worst dungeons of the 3d Zelda.
 
A character dying in a back alley (that actually makes reference to the main story) 90% of players probably missed entirely to is straightforward?

A girl with a shit eating grin replacing a NPC and informing the player that getting lost in this whimsical forest will turn you into a Stalfos? Not up for interpretation?

That writing and those characters are more interesting than anything in Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword. I remember these random characters from my first play through of OOT almost 10 years ago. I can barely remember anyone from Skyward Sword and I played that game 3 months ago.

The soldier dying in the alleyway isn't really a private moment if any other game would have placed him on the way to the temple. The reason why he's there is to guide people towards the Temple of Time. There is no greater significance.

That wayward people in the Lost Woods get turned into Stalfos builds lore, but... again, that's it. It adds nothing to the context of the greater narrative of the game, and certainly is a throwaway element in that subquest.
 

Shion

Member
A dungeon-centric Zelda is not synonymous of greatness.

That's true.

Majora's Mask and Wind Waker have some of the weakest dungeon design in the series (it's still good though). The reason they are loved by so many people is because, in addition to being mere games, they were strong experiences as well.

An Action/Adventure isn't all about gameplay. A platformer like Mario, sure, but Zelda? No.

Today's Nintendo seems to forget that Zelda needs to be more than just a game, it also needs to be a strong and atmospheric experience. Skyward Sword is the most typical example here. Great game in terms of gameplay, but incredibly weak as an experience.

Zelda needs to be both.
 
I really need to play this, have never played a minute of it.

By the time it was released, I had moved on to the Dreamcast.

Just reading this discussion has me fascinated...

It's been said before many times, but bears repeating...Noone understands how to produce videogames like Nintendo.
 

Gartooth

Member
In terms of the actual gameplay, I'm undecided on my favorite Zelda game. But Majora's Mask is an easy 1st place when it comes to story, setting, and characters.

There are very few games that make a player feel as motivated as they do in Majora's Mask, and saving the world and lives of the different characters just feels so great and satisfying in the end. (Deku kid and Pamela's dad are still the saddest moments for me)
 

TedNindo

Member
That's true.

Majora's Mask and Wind Waker have some of the weakest dungeon design in the series (it's still good though). The reason they are loved by so many people is because, in addition to being mere games, they were strong experiences as well.

An Action/Adventure isn't all about gameplay. A platformer like Mario, sure, but Zelda? No.

Today's Nintendo seems to forget that Zelda needs to be more than just a game, it also needs to be a strong and atmospheric experience. Skyward Sword is the most typical example here. Great game in terms of gameplay, but incredibly weak as an experience.

Zelda needs to be both.


That explains why I thought skyward sword felt too gamey. I'm a sucker for great atmosphere. And tend to enjoy the Zelda games with great atmosphere more then those with 'better' game mechanics. Even though the gameplay mechanics in almost all Zelda games are top notch. I recently replayed OOT and I'm playing MM atm. The dungeons and world in these two games were incredibly atmospheric. Wind Waker had its moments but it was far less dark and had much less of an impact on me. Twilight Princess also had it's moments but felt pretty empty for the most part. It felt really guided. The only real memmorable characters were introduced to you and involved in the story and not in side quests. You didn't really discover the characters but you were guided towards them. While some of the most memorable characters in MM and OOT had to be found. That's imo part of the reason I didn't really like Twilight Princess's world. Because there wasn't really a need or reason to explore besides some minor non involving rewards.

... yeah... I hope that made some sense. English isn't my first language so rambling on in a language that isn't my native tongue could come across badly.
 
I dunno, I actually found the dungeons in Majora's Mask to be top notch and some of the most memorable and replayable in the series. The Fairy hunts in them only made them better and made you want to explore even more, truth be told I only actually 100% beat the game with all Fairies and their rewards last year, I never did it as a good. So rewarding, even if the rewards aren't exactly the best (Longer magic is kinda cool, but there really is no reason to have the Great Fairy's sword so late in the game, especially if you get the Fierce Deity's Mask immediately after), it just felt great to finally get that last Stray Fairy and say I've beaten my favorite game.

I'm hoping that when the Wii U comes around and Nintendo are cracking at another Zelda, they take advantage of the hardware and make a more atmospheric experience. I'm not expecting a Zelda game to be announced this year, maybe next year at the earliest. When they do have one prepared, I'm hoping to be blown away. I don't expect to have a game as memorable or atmospheric and beautiful as Majora's Mask any time soon, but somewhere down the line it would be nice.
 
Majora's Mask is the most underrated game in the Zelda series. It surpassed Ocarina in terms of mood, story, and gameplay elements. And swimming as a Zora is possibly the most enjoyable experience ever.
 

TedNindo

Member
Part of why I like Majora's Mask the most is because I like getting lost in a Zelda game and stumbling upon something interesting that enriches the experience without it having a major impact on the overal gameplay. I get a bigger sense of accomplishment finding something small and intriguing then another piece of heart that makes the game easier. And it's even more rewarding when its an intriguing or mysterious character or location with some kind of story behind it. Even if it's just there as filler instead of having a major impact on or a connection with the main plot or gameplay.

RPG's do this all the time. But because of their scale it is usually not as well worked out as in MM. They become pretty much meaningless in large RPG's because RPG's are usually full of meaningless filler quests with some gems hidden within the lot. But in MM almost all of them were special and unique.
 

-KRS-

Member
This was the first game I bought new when it came out and payed for myself. I was 12 when it came out and since OoT was one of my favorite games on the N64, I knew I had to get this ASAP. I also had to buy the expansion pak because I didn't have one, so it was really expensive in the end. I got the money by selling all my Sega Genesis stuff. It was definitely worth it though because it turned out to be one of my favorite games of all time. I don't think I thought it was better than OoT when I first played through it, but as I got older I started to appreciate the darkness, depth and subtlety of the story and the mood/feeling it gives me more and more. And now I easily prefer it to OoT, even though both games are really great. They complement each other nicely. OoT is more of a light-hearted adventure while MM is more dark and moody.

One of the best endings to a game as well. It really ties everything up at the end in such a fantastic way, provided you have all the masks of course. It always makes me a bit sad that it's over, because it was such a great experience.
 

Jezan

Member
How does Romani not realize the world's about to end? LOOK IN THE SKY, MISSY.
This. But then again everyone is worried about their own problems to pay attention to the moon, that's how I see it anyway. Romani is worried about the aliens.
This and LA are the only Zelda games where I don't care a bit about dungeon quantity/quality (even though I love some of LA's dungeons and I don't dislike those in MM).
I think I prefer the more earthly problems of Termina's inhabitants rather than the epic struggle between Evil and Good you usually see in Zelda games. For me it's easier to care for Clock Town rather than the entire world in, say, Twilight Princess. Even in OoT, within the dark world ruled by G, you can't find the same feeling of despair that slowly grows in the heart of the people of Termina.
And since I'm a fan of time voyages and paradoxes, Majora's Mask was a sure hit for me.
This is the beauty of it, you only complete the dungeons because you need to help someone and find a closure.
 

Dr.Hadji

Member
Today's Nintendo seems to forget that Zelda needs to be more than just a game, it also needs to be a strong and atmospheric experience. Skyward Sword is the most typical example here. Great game in terms of gameplay, but incredibly weak as an experience.

Gameplay is my experience. Good gameplay is immersive to me. Crafting together obvious gameplay mechanics and staples creates a fantastic virtual environment for me. And I get it. Lots of people love colors, story and setting and worlds. So something like MM would be more appealing to them. And I love it for that reason as well. But Zelda is made up of those "mechanical" parts as well and the series as been using its "gamey" parts to invoke those more subtle emotions since its beginning.

Love the human elements of MM but a game world is also made up of actions. Meeting that old witch you first meet as Kotake in OOT in a poison forest and fetching materials out of a twists forest to finish her brew is a great set up. Gameplay wise? The scenario plays out like a weaker version of OOTs lost woods. Where the discovery of an audio path though the maze woods is replaced by a more obvious scent trail. Seeing a space and setup so similar to another environment in another game I love and not being able get the same amount of enjoyment out of playing though it is my biggest knock against MM. The great many of things OOT did with the context of its gameplay, MM took and treated those things very much like the "me too" sequel would. And it hurts the experience.
 
I think it's an absolute joke that both "Nintendo Fans" and Nintendo themselves will eat up Ocarina of Time, over and over and over and over again. Latest being the obvious 3DS remake, when I've said this from the very beginning, Majora's Mask is THE BEST LoZ game.

All the same mechanics as OoT exist, but to a greater extent. More strategy is needed, and the story... as the OP mentions, the story is something else.

Just because OoT came first, doesn't make it the best. Just the same for Final Fantasy 7. It was the first 3D FF game, and people regarded it as the best, when in actuality, there are other FF games that simply trump it.

People need to get over the nostalgia, and really look at things objectively for once.

That being said, now Nintendo is going to crap out M'sM 10 times over crossing several platforms and handhelds -___-

Majora's Mask is the most underrated game in the Zelda series. It surpassed Ocarina in terms of mood, story, and gameplay elements. And swimming as a Zora is possibly the most enjoyable experience ever.

That feel man... that feel.
 
I just finished this game for the first time, and it was good, but I suppose I missed out not playing it when it came out on the N64. Kind of felt like the game was oversold to me.
 

TedNindo

Member
Gameplay is my experience. Good gameplay is immersive to me. Crafting together obvious gameplay mechanics and staples creates a fantastic virtual environment for me. And I get it. Lots of people love colors, story and setting and worlds. So something like MM would be more appealing to them. And I love it for that reason as well. But Zelda is made up of those "mechanical" parts as well and the series as been using its "gamey" parts to invoke those more subtle emotions since its beginning.

Love the human elements of MM but a game world is also made up of actions. Meeting that old witch you first meet as Kotake in OOT in a poison forest and fetching materials out of a twists forest to finish her brew is a great set up. Gameplay wise? The scenario plays out like a weaker version of OOTs lost woods. Where the discovery of an audio path though the maze woods is replaced by a more obvious scent trail. Seeing a space and setup so similar to another environment in another game I love and not being able get the same amount of enjoyment out of playing though it is my biggest knock against MM. The great many of things OOT did with the context of its gameplay, MM took and treated those things very much like the "me too" sequel would. And it hurts the experience.

I agree with you that gameplay is very important in a Zelda game. Its gameplay is pretty much unique and a big part of why I love it. But I do think a great Zelda game is a near perfect balance of gameplay and story, setting and worlds. And I understand completely that it's a hard if not an almost impossible thing to accomplish. Because I can't think of many games that have ,especially with the variety and complexity of gameplay mechanics and enviroments of a game like Zelda. It's one of the only games I know that manages to come so close.

I liked the gameplay of Skyward Sword, the mechanics are some of the best in the series and it's more challanging which I appriciate. I also loved the art style. But it was also one of the least compelling experiences I've had in the series because it lacked a lot of soul that other entries had. I was never immersed and constantly aware of all the gameplay mechanics set up in the enviroment. When I entered an environment it could be analyzed like a room in Portal. I expect that of constructed dungeons, but not from a living world. It also didn't just let me explore. Or I wasn't intrigued enough by the enviroments to explore. It was all set up for me to follow a string of gameplay mechanics.
 

Shion

Member
I agree that gameplay is important too. That's why I said that Zelda needs to be both an amazing game and a strong experience outside of gameplay.

That's what I want to see from the next Zelda game.
 

Jezan

Member
Back in the day, I couldn't afford this game. So I would save money to rent it for 3 days at blockbuster. I must have done this 4 or 5 times. By my last playthrough I was capable of beating the first 2 dungeons and get 2/3 of the masks in 2 full days. I could have probably beaten it but I wanted the all the masks so bad!

I want to buy a 3DS right now hoping that MM will eventually be released for it. If not I will buy a cheap N64 in the future just to beat it and close this unfinished business.

Obligatory: this is the best Zelda I've played. Wind Waker was incredible but the setting is what makes this game so memorable.
Teeheehee

I'll say it again, I love this game, I remember watching the first "Zelda Gaiden" videos :D
 
I love Majora's Mask for several reasons:

- The atmosphere is perfect. You always have this "The world is going to end" feeling haunting you. The time limit is proof of that. You always want to do as much as you can, safe as many people as possible in these short three days.
- The soundtrack perfectly suits the atmosphere. There is not so much music in a sense of notes and chords. Many songs in the soundtrack have these weird and nagging sounds that don't seem to have a particular rhythm at first. It feels unreal, just as unreal as the situation Link (and therefore you) is (are) in.
- It's dark. It's still the darkest game in the entire series. There are almost no funny or lighthearted scenes in there. Everything has a very serious undertone. It's amazing how much mature elements this game has.


We seriously need another Zelda in this style. Please Nintendo, give us Majora's Mask 3D on 3DS. Then create a new Zelda in this style. Please. Pretty please. With sugar on top :(



@DangerStepp: Yes, you owe it to yourself.
 
Ocarina of Time does feature moments that are emotionally charged and interpretively open, such as those ambiguous moments in the Biggoron Sword sidequest with the punk kid and his distorted family relationships. I think those are moments when the developers briefly chip through the layer of archetypes that defines OoT and expose the humanity underneath.

Majora's Mask simply takes that subversion and builds an entire world around it, which makes it all the more fitting as a sequel. The land of Hyrule is a place bound by rules, by types, by order, by fate, by an almost unflinching belief in the prospect of hope and justice. It is a world favored by the gods. Termina, by contrast, is a land where law is distorted, rules are clung to or broken as necessary, fate is a mockery of one's will, and the belief in hope and justice is simply a divider between the old and the young. It is a world forgotten by the gods.

For me, MM is the most beautifully bittersweet experience for many reasons, but largely because of how Link himself is characterized. It is ironic that Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword try to "characterize" Link as a person beyond his status as an avatar, and yet those Links are puppets in comparison to the much less emotive Hero of Time. He brings with him into Termina the rules of Hyrule: the pursuit of justice, the display of courage, the belief that good triumphs over evil, the idea that one's deities will still the plane of existence. In his world, his traits are commendable, entering into legend because such a society must crystallize and recognize such values in order to persist (and of course they perish when he disappears).

So when he enters Termina, he is an archetype; and though he experienced life as an adult in Hyrule, it is Termina that allows him to become an adult. But it is also a world that is too scared, too jaded, too self-consumed to believe in what Link represents. Hence the masks, a way to take on a form that is comfortable to others, though they also deny Link his recognition. And therein lies his ultimate test as a "hero": to hold unwaveringly to his values despite the world's complete ignorance of him in the end.

He enters and leaves Termina alone, brimming with memories that no one else can feel, or even believe. Meanwhile, the people of Termina continue with their lives, perhaps retaining some change from the ripples in time, but never knowing that their salvation depended on some young boy who fought their fear for them, and with no discernible benefit to himself. And for daring to exercise his power - a power granted to him by his gods - over a world that the gods saw fit to abandon, he is forgotten even by Hyrule, left to wander in obscurity without the friend he went looking for or the friends he had found. Without saying a word, he is an incredibly realized character, mature beyond age and courageous to a fault.

As much as I yearn for a Zelda game in Majora's Mask "style," I wonder forlornly if such a request is even reasonable. Majora's Mask, amidst any kinks and irks with its dungeons or controls, manages to synergize its gameplay and scenario so well that it almost seems like lightning in a bottle. I think Nintendo has the talent, but given the multiple missed opportunities in Skyward Sword, I worry that they lack the vision.
 
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