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Competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee Discussion Thread

C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
I played Ganondorf for about 4 hours and I think he might already be better than my Falcon.

A big part of it is that I play him really similarly to my Falcon and everything except timing transferred over well once I started getting a feel for him. I think the big things that are helping me are that his hitboxes last so much longer, and his slow speed is actually beneficial for me because I'm forced to think more.

Won't drop Falcon for him, but I think I'm going to keep playing 'dorf a lot because I think it will do a lot to improve my game with Falcon just from a mental standpoint. A lot more than the Fox I was previously screwing around with on the side.
 
N

Nothing1016

Member
Was watching Mang0's stream right now and he isn't even mad at the whole M2K thing. Probabky understands its a mistake just thinks he is an idiot. But Lauren on the other hand seems furious.
 
T

Tripon

Member
chaosblade said:
Looks like M2K asked Darkrain to play best of 5 instead of best of 3. Darkrain kind of halfass-agreed by saying not if he won the best of 3, but they went with the 5 games anyway.

Darkrain won 2/3, but M2K came back and won their 3/5. Darkrain reported to the TO that they played a 3/5 and M2K won. The TO asked who won the best of 3 they were supposed to play, so he said he won. So Darkrain was considered the winner of the set since you can't use gentleman's agreement to change the game count for the set. Now M2K has started spouting off about how Darkrain bullshitted him so he could win the set, and basically everyone is telling him he's exaggerating and overreacting (since he came back from losers and won anyway, I think).
Click to expand...
M2K is an idiot.
 
L

Laughlin

Member
So does anyone here do local tournaments? How exactly do you get started?

(Although I'd prolly play Smash 4 and not Melee)
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Laughlin said:
So does anyone here do local tournaments? How exactly do you get started?

(Although I'd prolly play Smash 4 and not Melee)
Click to expand...

I think the OP has some links to find local tourneys actually it doesn't. Usually they have Facebook pages and Twitter accounts where they announce what's going on. They are almost everywhere these days.

Even if your local area doesn't have anything you can start up something yourself. If you have a few friends with Wii Us/Wiis/Cubes that are also interested you can start doing some monthly events with them, invite more people, and it should grow over time. Even with just 3-5 setups you can run a 20-30 person tournament pretty well.

There are probably quite a few Smash players from local high schools and colleges.
 
D

Daouzin

Member
chaosblade said:
I played Ganondorf for about 4 hours and I think he might already be better than my Falcon.

A big part of it is that I play him really similarly to my Falcon and everything except timing transferred over well once I started getting a feel for him. I think the big things that are helping me are that his hitboxes last so much longer, and his slow speed is actually beneficial for me because I'm forced to think more.

Won't drop Falcon for him, but I think I'm going to keep playing 'dorf a lot because I think it will do a lot to improve my game with Falcon just from a mental standpoint. A lot more than the Fox I was previously screwing around with on the side.
Click to expand...

Nice, personally I have the most fun playing Ganon and have pretty much played him exclusively since 2006-2009 then I just played Melee in general off and on. I did beat Eddie at OC2 in 2008 in a Ganon Ditto and me and Eikelmann did a Ganon ditto last year at EVO and it came down to last stock, last hit in our best of 5.

I feel like I could have won, but he was so technical that all I could think was, damn, he totally deserves this more than me. So,... no johns, I lost. haha

Anyway, Ganon is super fun!

However, 20XX has caught up to me so I plan to play mostly Fox and Marth from now on with Ganon as my counter pick against Peach, Jigglypuff, certain Marths and certain Falcos.
 
T

theprodigy

Member
Mumei said:
And more importantly, I'd actually be able to watch the whole thing when it runs until 1:00 AM.
Click to expand...
hey Mumei when are you getting your mod status back ;)
Daouzin said:
Nice, personally I have the most fun playing Ganon and have pretty much played him exclusively since 2006-2009 then I just played Melee in general off and on. I did beat Eddie at OC2 in 2008 in a Ganon Ditto and me and Eikelmann did a Ganon ditto last year at EVO and it came down to last stock, last hit in our best of 5.

I feel like I could have won, but he was so technical that all I could think was, damn, he totally deserves this more than me. So,... no johns, I lost. haha

Anyway, Ganon is super fun!

However, 20XX has caught up to me so I plan to play mostly Fox and Marth from now on with Ganon as my counter pick against Peach, Jigglypuff, certain Marths and certain Falcos.
Click to expand...

what about Ice Climbers? lol
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
Evo 2015 said:
We’re also proud to announce that in only 24 days, both Ultra Street Fighter IV and Smash Bros. Melee have surpassed 1000 registrations.”
Click to expand...

damndamndamnr3uac.gif


I think it may be safe to say the Marvel 3 and Melee lines have crossed. We #2 now.
 
F

FZZ

Banned
The closer we get to EVO the less I feel like Mang0 isn't gonna win, he's really focused on streaming, fan interaction, and hasn't been training as much.

Honestly if that's the case I want either M2K, Armada, or Leffen to win. Mainly M2K though.

Also how many entrants is Smash 4 at?
 
N

Nothing1016

Member
FZZpure said:
The closer we get to EVO the less I feel like Mang0 isn't gonna win, he's really focused on streaming, fan interaction, and hasn't been training as much.

Honestly if that's the case I want either M2K, Armada, or Leffen to win. Mainly M2K though.

Also how many entrants is Smash 4 at?
Click to expand...
Don't count The Kid out.

#TeamMang0 #Mang0Nation #Mang0at
 
E

emb

Member
FZZpure said:
The closer we get to EVO the less I feel like Mang0 isn't gonna win, he's really focused on streaming, fan interaction, and hasn't been training as much.

Honestly if that's the case I want either M2K, Armada, or Leffen to win. Mainly M2K though.

Also how many entrants is Smash 4 at?
Click to expand...
I'd love to see any of them win too. Of course I want to see PPMD win again over anyone. I guess it's easier to just say that I don't want Mango or Hungrybox to win.

I don't think we know anything else about entrant counts. Just that everything else is <1000 at this point. I think spectator passes for the last day are completely sold out now, as well? Anyway, iirc the numbers aren't fully revealed until registration closes.
 
R

Revven

Member
Melee hitting 1,000 at this time of the year is insane compared to last year. I remember Smashers used to wait until the very last minute to register, if you told me in 2015 there'd be a tournament where Smashers entered to hit 1,000 when it's only been 24 days since they opened registration I wouldn't believe you.

Just unbelievable.
 
S

Shimesaba

Member
FZZpure said:
The closer we get to EVO the less I feel like Mang0 isn't gonna win, he's really focused on streaming, fan interaction, and hasn't been training as much.
Click to expand...
Despite all of the recent hype posts, it's worth keeping in mind that Evo is in July, it's still February, and with a solid training regimen (and attendance at a few tournaments) Mango could easily get himself ready for Evo in a month. I'd be more worried about his attitude toward the game -- if he keeps talking like he's given up on being #1, and doesn't put the practice in when June rolls around, someone hungrier will take it.

FZZpure said:
Honestly if that's the case I want either M2K, Armada, or Leffen to win. Mainly M2K though.
Click to expand...
Prepare yourself for disappointment, then :V
 
A

Azure J

Member
Daouzin said:
Yes! Melee and Street Fighter IV have both already gotten over 1,000 registered players.

http://shoryuken.com/2015/02/24/evo-2015-sunday-tournament-hall-passes-sold-out-registration-still-open/

I'd say it's safe to say that Melee will be in the finals on Sunday.

Hype!

I did my part for Smash 4, I entered both, but definitely focusing on Melee.
Click to expand...

Holy fucking shit, this is unreal.

Anth0ny said:
damndamndamnr3uac.gif


I think it may be safe to say the Marvel 3 and Melee lines have crossed. We #2 now.
Click to expand...

Melee just sits in the back then casually walks up to the second biggest dude and snatches his kufi.

Edit:

Tomohawk said:
This is doubly hilarious to me because I just finished Arrested Development and all I can think of during the song is Gob. Damn, that was a good show.
Click to expand...

Arrested Development is too fucking good. I'm still waiting for Season 5 (rip me) or something I can use as a substitute. Legitimately one of the weirdest things I've ever taken such an extreme liking to. :lol
 
B

Blarg

Neo Member
I'm starting to get into Melee as a beginner to the competetive scene (played tons casually when I younger). Help me pick my main, thinking Puff or Falco. I like to play very aggressive, is it possible with Puff? She seems like more of a spacing/campy character. Falco seems to suit that style better, but I doubt my fingers are fast enough to pull him off.
 
R

Revven

Member
Blarg said:
I'm starting to get into Melee as a beginner to the competetive scene (played tons casually when I younger). Help me pick my main, thinking Puff or Falco. I like to play very aggressive, is it possible with Puff? She seems like more of a spacing/campy character. Falco seems to suit that style better, but I doubt my fingers are fast enough to pull him off.
Click to expand...

Captain Falcon or Sheik might be more up your alley if you're looking for aggressive-style characters that don't require as much techskill as Falco or Fox. Pikachu is also an option but he's difficult to master, not easy to just pick up like Sheik is for example.
 
G

GamerJM

Banned
FZZpure said:
The closer we get to EVO the less I feel like Mang0 isn't gonna win, he's really focused on streaming, fan interaction, and hasn't been training as much.

Honestly if that's the case I want either M2K, Armada, or Leffen to win. Mainly M2K though.

Also how many entrants is Smash 4 at?
Click to expand...

I got my money on Armada, I believe in that new Fox. I don't think people are going to have him "figured out," in time.
 
E

emb

Member
Blarg said:
I'm starting to get into Melee as a beginner to the competetive scene (played tons casually when I younger). Help me pick my main, thinking Puff or Falco. I like to play very aggressive, is it possible with Puff? She seems like more of a spacing/campy character. Falco seems to suit that style better, but I doubt my fingers are fast enough to pull him off.
Click to expand...
Aggressive Puff is doable, but I think it gets outshined by campy Puff once you start getting better. Her floatiness + light weight + high air mobility make it harder to combo her, so recklessly approaching can in some ways be pretty safe with her; you'll probably get more off of a successful approach than they'll get if you mess up. Playing the spacing/campy game can also be done pretty aggressively; she can move in and out of your opponent's zone pretty quickly in the air and bait retaliation. It's just really hard to actually get in with her versus characters like Fox and Marth.

Falco's a huge glass cannon, and tech errors will probably be super costly. Most of his aggression comes from laser approaches and mixups. Once you're in, there's probably a solid combo with shines/uTilts/dairs for you. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about your fingers being fast enough at first. No matter what, when you start playing you will suck (though you're not exactly starting, hopefully my point there still comes across). Believe in yourself to eventually adapt your skills to the character you think looks like the most fun.

I think you should definitely go with one of the characters that immediately came to mind. Unless you're willing to play Falcon. Then always play Falcon.
 
P

Pappasman

Member
While I think M2K at his best is the true #1 player, he's way too inconsistent and gets in his own head. My Marth savior for this year has got to be PPMD.
 
F

Fugu

Member
I really wish I had the kind of free time necessary to be a part of my local Melee scene. I love this game.

Armada seems like he has a pretty good shot but I don't care much to cheer for him if he's not playing as Peach.
 
D

Daouzin

Member
I dunno, I can't decide if I want Mang0 or Leffen to win. Leffen winning would be so hype, but I love Mang0.

I think both Mang0 and M2K have just been distracted lately, with practically 5 months before EVO I think they should be focused by then.
 
B

Blarg

Neo Member
Revven said:
Captain Falcon or Sheik might be more up your alley if you're looking for aggressive-style characters that don't require as much techskill as Falco or Fox. Pikachu is also an option but he's difficult to master, not easy to just pick up like Sheik is for example.
Click to expand...

emb said:
Aggressive Puff is doable, but I think it gets outshined by campy Puff once you start getting better. Her floatiness + light weight + high air mobility make it harder to combo her, so recklessly approaching can in some ways be pretty safe with her; you'll probably get more off of a successful approach than they'll get if you mess up. Playing the spacing/campy game can also be done pretty aggressively; she can move in and out of your opponent's zone pretty quickly in the air and bait retaliation. It's just really hard to actually get in with her versus characters like Fox and Marth.

Falco's a huge glass cannon, and tech errors will probably be super costly. Most of his aggression comes from laser approaches and mixups. Once you're in, there's probably a solid combo with shines/uTilts/dairs for you. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about your fingers being fast enough at first. No matter what, when you start playing you will suck (though you're not exactly starting, hopefully my point there still comes across). Believe in yourself to eventually adapt your skills to the character you think looks like the most fun.

I think you should definitely go with one of the characters that immediately came to mind. Unless you're willing to play Falcon. Then always play Falcon.
Click to expand...

Great advice, thanks guys. I'm actually now leaning towards Sheik or Falcon. I like Sheik overall a bit better overall but Falcon short hop knee is the shit.

Edit: Feeling Sheik a lot more now after some practice. Maybe I'll just play both for the time being, maybe even mix some Puff in.
 
E

emb

Member
Blarg said:
Great advice, thanks guys. I'm actually now leaning towards Sheik or Falcon. I like Sheik overall a bit better overall but Falcon short hop knee is the shit.

Edit: Feeling Sheik a lot more now after some practice. Maybe I'll just play both for the time being, maybe even mix some Puff in.
Click to expand...
Sheik is super fun, and I feel like she's under represented given how solid she is. Good call.
 
C

Cody_D165

Banned
Blarg said:
Great advice, thanks guys. I'm actually now leaning towards Sheik or Falcon. I like Sheik overall a bit better overall but Falcon short hop knee is the shit.

Edit: Feeling Sheik a lot more now after some practice. Maybe I'll just play both for the time being, maybe even mix some Puff in.
Click to expand...

join the Falcon army

we have swag
 
S

Shimesaba

Member
Blarg said:
Great advice, thanks guys. I'm actually now leaning towards Sheik or Falcon. I like Sheik overall a bit better overall but Falcon short hop knee is the shit.

Edit: Feeling Sheik a lot more now after some practice. Maybe I'll just play both for the time being, maybe even mix some Puff in.
Click to expand...

Sheik/Falcon will work for a while, but if you really do want to play aggressively all the time, the only characters who can pull that off in any given matchup are Fox and Falco.

Honestly Sheik and Falcon are both defensive characters. Falcon just doesn't come across as one so people don't realize..
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Shimesaba said:
Sheik/Falcon will work for a while, but if you really do want to play aggressively all the time, the only characters who can pull that off in any given matchup are Fox and Falco.

Honestly Sheik and Falcon are both defensive characters. Falcon just doesn't come across as one so people don't realize..
Click to expand...

This is what I was going to reply with. I don't have a lot of Sheik experience but Falcon is all about his punish game. He is a rush down punish sort of character, but he has almost no good approach options.

He's also not a very easy character, you pretty much have to be able to SHFFL well and have good spacing. Edit: and be good at tech chasing. Important stuff for any character but it really is the bare minimum with Falcon along with understanding how to use him.
 
S

Shimesaba

Member
chaosblade said:
This is what I was going to reply with. I don't have a lot of Sheik experience but Falcon is all about his punish game. He is a rush down punish sort of character, but he has almost no good approach options.

He's also not a very easy character, you pretty much have to be able to SHFFL well and have good spacing.
Click to expand...

Right. Sheik is also defensive and punishment-oriented, but she doesn't get mistaken for an offensive character very often because she's not as flashy as Falcon. People see the knees and the fire and they assume that Falcon is meant to run around blowing people up, but yeah sorry no real approaches means that your actual gameplan is going to be to control space with nair until you can get a grab. Newer players probably shouldn't be picking him until they're really solid on dashdancing and SHFFLing at least.

UltraClarity said:
A bunch of Smash TOs are hinting at a big tournament reveal today. Guess its Genesis 3 in the MD/VA area.
Click to expand...

The announcement got delayed, but it was never going to be this. Genesis 3, if/when it happens, will be in NorCal, and it won't be announced on a random Xanadu stream in the middle of the week, especially when NorCal has a regional coming up in April.

If it was a tourney announcement, something like a successor to the Pound Series is more likely.
 
A

Azure J

Member
So hypothetical set of questions for Competitive Melee-GAF/Smash-GAF/Design-GAF:

You are making a Melee-like platform fighter (with your own unique ideas here and there of course) and you begin thinking of the roster. You're aiming for something modest in number (16-24 characters) and begin brainstorming the general idea behind the combatants.

- Based on Melee, what archetypes would you immediately think of covering?
- What fighting styles/archetypes would you begin to think of after the previous that either didn't exist in Melee or still don't exist in the grand scheme of Smash at current?
- What would you consider an optimal number for this pet project?

Personally, I think as though a platform fighter should have a Fox, Falco, Falcon, Puff, Marth and Peach analogue to start things off with. Similar to how every traditional fighting game after Street Fighter has its Ryu/Ken/Chun Li/Zangief/Guile, I figure a few of these guys have move sets or extra attributes that are just too iconic to the platform fighter design not to be represented. That and their overall popularity in Melee would probably result in having good "basic" or immediately understood design

As for fighting styles I'd explore, everyone should know I love me some swords and as such, I'd have a few variations of swordplay in the roster (fencer, knight, heavy/large swordsman/berserker & Japanese Iaijutsu). I've also been fond of the idea of a "tuck and roll" run & gunner a la Elphelt in Guilty Gear.

Finally, I'm thinking 20-24, or sticking near upper end of that limit would be pretty cool for a new property to do. Enough characters that the match ups are varied but easy enough on the potential workload.

As this is the Competitive Melee Discussion thread and not the "theory design thread", I'm trying not to go full hog with concepts I've actually planned out or thought of. I figured this would still be an interesting exercise though to see what people think of Melee's cast.
 
D

Daouzin

Member
Shimesaba said:
Right. Sheik is also defensive and punishment-oriented, but she doesn't get mistaken for an offensive character very often because she's not as flashy as Falcon. People see the knees and the fire and they assume that Falcon is meant to run around blowing people up, but yeah sorry no real approaches means that your actual gameplan is going to be to control space with nair until you can get a grab. Newer players probably shouldn't be picking him until they're really solid on dashdancing and SHFFLing at least.



The announcement got delayed, but it was never going to be this. Genesis 3, if/when it happens, will be in NorCal, and it won't be announced on a random Xanadu stream in the middle of the week, especially when NorCal has a regional coming up in April.

If it was a tourney announcement, something like a successor to the Pound Series is more likely.
Click to expand...

Do you know when it will be announced now?

With EVO being 5 months away, I'd be pretty excited for another big tournament in the halfway point between now and then.
 
B

Blarg

Neo Member
Shimesaba said:
Sheik/Falcon will work for a while, but if you really do want to play aggressively all the time, the only characters who can pull that off in any given matchup are Fox and Falco.

Honestly Sheik and Falcon are both defensive characters. Falcon just doesn't come across as one so people don't realize..
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I'll do Sheik for a while and keep Falco in mind. Just see how it goes. Thanks
 
D

Daouzin

Member
Azure J said:
So hypothetical set of questions for Competitive Melee-GAF/Smash-GAF/Design-GAF:

You are making a Melee-like platform fighter (with your own unique ideas here and there of course) and you begin thinking of the roster. You're aiming for something modest in number (16-24 characters) and begin brainstorming the general idea behind the combatants.

- Based on Melee, what archetypes would you immediately think of covering?
- What fighting styles/archetypes would you begin to think of after the previous that either didn't exist in Melee or still don't exist in the grand scheme of Smash at current?
- What would you consider an optimal number for this pet project?

Personally, I think as though a platform fighter should have a Fox, Falco, Falcon, Puff, Marth and Peach analogue to start things off with. Similar to how every traditional fighting game after Street Fighter has its Ryu/Ken/Chun Li/Zangief/Guile, I figure a few of these guys have move sets or extra attributes that are just too iconic to the platform fighter design not to be represented. That and their overall popularity in Melee would probably result in having good "basic" or immediately understood design

As for fighting styles I'd explore, everyone should know I love me some swords and as such, I'd have a few variations of swordplay in the roster (fencer, knight, heavy/large swordsman/berserker & Japanese Iaijutsu). I've also been fond of the idea of a "tuck and roll" run & gunner a la Elphelt in Guilty Gear.

Finally, I'm thinking 20-24, or sticking near upper end of that limit would be pretty cool for a new property to do. Enough characters that the match ups are varied but easy enough on the potential workload.

As this is the Competitive Melee Discussion thread and not the "theory design thread", I'm trying not to go full hog with concepts I've actually planned out or thought of. I figured this would still be an interesting exercise though to see what people think of Melee's cast.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think you hit all the main characters that should be included.

I think Ganon should be represented. Ganon is a slow character, but he does have bursts of speed he can access for hard punishes or hard reads. Platform dashes allow for this best, but another thing that separates Ganon from Falcon would be his up. It's a great way to reset positioning to neutral which is why I absolutely hate Ganon's Smash 4 Up B, they nurfed it too severely, it should be a feasible kill move to punish opponents for closing in at the wrong time. Also Ganon's reverse up air is pretty effective to the spacies.

Alot of people hate that Ganon is a clone, but personally I find Ganon more enjoyable than Falcon precisely because of which moves in his tool set are best and how they are used.

Basically to represent Ganon I would recommend having moves that fuction simiarly to the following:
-Jab
-Up B
-Up Air
-Good Wavedash
-Something that allows for good tech chasing like Smash 4 Forward B or Melee Down air.

Characters I think should also be represented:
-PM or Smash 4 Sonic
-PM Bowser

I think 20 characters is plenty.
 
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