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Media Create Sales: Week 37, 2017 (Sep 11 - Sep 17)

V

Vinnk

Member
KillerMan91 said:
Well that definition doesn't fit platform that is looking to sell close to 10 million units. That would mean that 1 out of 5 households in Japan would have PS4 (Japan having about 50 million households). That is not ''small specialized section'' of population.
Click to expand...

Supposing that it does make it to 10 million units sold before a replacement comes along, I still think it makes it a popular product among it's niche. In this case gamers.

Laserdisc players were in 10% of Japanese homes in the 90s. (About where the PS4 is right now). You will find no one claiming that the format was not niche.

I am not sure why niche suddenly became a bad word. We are NeoGaf we are a niche community. Most of my favorite systems over the years were also niche.

However if the word is putting people off, can we agree to "not a mainstream hit". I can live with that.
 
F

frankie_baby

Member
L~A said:
19./00. [NSW] Champion Jockey Special <SLG> (Koei Tecmo) {2017.09.14} (¥7.800) - 2.512 / NEW <20-40%>
27./00. [NSW] Winning Post 8 2017 <SLG> (Koei Tecmo) {2017.09.14} (¥7.800) - 1.774 / NEW <20-40%>

Surprisingly low sell-through ratio for those.
Click to expand...

Arent they more the kind of expensive niche games that sells in tiny amounts over time?
 
Davey Cakes

Davey Cakes

Member
After Federation Force, I think Metroid is going to require some word-of-mouth to sell. It could have legs. The more people pick up and play it, the better it will do.

Metroid needs time to recover.
 
K

KtSlime

Member
unapersson said:
Is baseline genuinely a thing though? Never thought it was a real sales concept, just something invented in these threads. I've never seen it used anywhere else in this way.
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It has had this definition in these sales threads for years, outside it can mean whatever, but for the sake of consistency I'm just advocating we use a different word when talking about the sell through of the Switch or any other product, at least as long as it is supply constrained.

As to how the PS4 is doing, it should be doing much better than it is now, while PS4 may be slightly outperforming the slow to start PS3, there has been a massive shrinking of the market overall, and while Smartphone popularity shares much of the responsibility, it doesn't share it all, poor decisions (regarding Japan) Sony has made have had an effect as well. I think the market could and should be healthier than it is all things considered, I don't think that the sales of whatever Sony releases are predetermined by their previous product, and believe it to be a bad habit to simply accept that as a given.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
Rash said:
After Federation Force, I think Metroid is going to require some word-of-mouth to sell. It could have legs. The more people pick up and play it, the better it will do.

Metroid needs time to recover.
Click to expand...
In Japan? Nah.
 
V

Vital Tundra

Member
While I expected Metroid to do as well as it did, is there any real reason why its not popular in Japan? Just a cultural thing? Do Americans just love scifi?
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
fortunato said:
The term niche is not strictly related to sales, and refers to the type of audience the product is targeting to. If the direct competitor is going to sell 25m units, and there are other direct competitors for consumers' money in the mobile sector that are able to attract a wider audience, then a niche product might well sell 10m units.
Click to expand...

Of course niche is about sales at the end of the day and if you include mobile install base every system is niche. There will be more smart phones sold this year than all systems combined. Does that make the PS4 a niche system worldwide?

It's so weird to call the PS4 a niche product. In gen 7 the worst selling hardware was the PSP. Is a system that sells 80 million units a niche product in the gaming sphere because it was last place? The PS4 will probably wnd a little over 10m when all is said and done. It receives all the major support. It sells decent amounts of software. If this product is niche is the only platform that isn't niche a phone?
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
MatrixMan.EXE said:
Well, what do you know. Something I'm going to actually agree with you on. In Japan, Sony's systems are definitely niche at this point. The type of experience they offer as a whole no longer lines up with what the wider Japanese gaming market is looking for. You can see that in both the hardware and software sales. It caters to the 'niche' group that want those specific experiences, whereas 3DS for example (and soon Switch), is more of an "everyman" system.

There's nothing wrong with that though. It's just how thing are over there right now. Not sure why that label doesn't fly with people, especially seeing as it's far from niche outside of Japan.
Click to expand...
Agreed, I think niche is a positive word, it means 'not mainstream, but has carved out its own market sector'.

Gotdatmoney said:
I don't understand how a system that will probably sell 10m units is niche. Yeah PS4 is a mediocre performer for a system that has literally all the third party support but it still isn't niche.
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The only other way of looking at it is as a big failure to be the mainstream market leader it was trying to be. Maybe it isn't a niche, just a failed bid for the big time?

Also, so many throwing around the '10 million LTD' figure for PS4 when that would mean it would have doubled its current sales. PS3 got to that ballpark largely through attrition and an extremely prolonged lifespan. PS4 has so far had everything going for it - price, all the big games, massive sustained western success, and almost no competition in the home console space most of its life. But it will have an in-stock Switch eating its lunch from next year onward, and when will the PS5 hit?
 
P

Principate

Saint Titanfall
test_account said:
Isnt this about it usually have been selling for a long time now? Or was there any reason events that would change this?
Click to expand...
It's roughly where it's usually been but it's at point where most of it's major pushes have occurred has the majority of third party is on the device and is on a decline to the lower end of it's typical sales with a release.

Basically the chances of the PS4 increasing beyond this base line are slim which is what I was hoping it would do (at least 30k ish). As this be will be another contraction as the vita dies off.

Japanese third parties aren't exactly jumping at the switch so despite probable two break out consoles worldwide the domestic industry isn't looking all that hot.

Hence that's not good.
 
F

fortunato

Banned
gundamkyoukai said:
I mean when it comes to gaming or most entertainment things niche normal associated low\small\sales etc etc.
Breaking down how specialized a product is whole other ball game with a lot of factors.
Click to expand...

Of course, sales and specialization are highly correlated with each other! The point is, looking for a threshold below which a product is niche is completely meaningless if you don't know reference points and the size of the market. 10m can be considered mass-market if the product is able to attract a wide and heterogenous audience; it is silly to take 10m out of context and saying "this is not niche/this is niche" based solely on sales volume itself.

Gotdatmoney said:
Of course niche is about sales at the end of the day and if you include mobile install base every system is niche. There will be more smart phones sold this year than all systems combined. Does that make the PS4 a niche system worldwide?
Click to expand...

It is not if sales are taken out of context. And in general it is not, really. Niche defines the type of audience a product is trying to cater, and everything is in relative terms. Also, I was not directly comparing smartphones sales with console sales, but the type of public they attract. 3DS and smartphone/mobile gaming can be both part of a mass market, even if one caters a way larger audience.

Gotdatmoney said:
It's so weird to call the PS4 a niche product. In gen 7 the worst selling hardware was the PSP. Is a system that sells 80 million units a niche product in the gaming sphere because it was last place? The PS4 will probably wnd a little over 10m when all is said and done. It receives all the major support. It sells decent amounts of software. If this product is niche is the only platform that isn't niche a phone?
Click to expand...

Again, you are strictly talking about hardware sales. PSP was not a niche product; in Japan, it was able to attract a wider audience, even though much more homogeneous than DS and 3DS'.
 
W

WestEgg

Member
Vital Tundra said:
While I expected Metroid to do as well as it did, is there any real reason why its not popular in Japan? Just a cultural thing? Do Americans just love scifi?
Click to expand...

Metroid is relatively westernized compared to popular Japanese Sci Fi. It's largely inspired by the Alien franchise and American comic books, and has very little focus on narrative in the game itself, focusing mainly of establishing an isolated, creepy atmosphere.

Smash Bros and internet fanart aside, Samus is also surprisingly unsexualized, so the game doesn't have the "waifu factor" that, say Nier has.
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
D.Lo said:
The only other way of looking at it is as a big failure to be the mainstream market leader it was trying to be. Maybe it isn't a niche, just a failed bid for the big time?

Also, so many throwing around the '10 million LTD' figure for PS4 when that would mean it would have doubled its current sales. PS3 got to that ballpark largely through attrition and an extremely prolonged lifespan. PS4 has so far had everything going for it - price, all the big games, massive sustained western success, and almost no competition in the home console space most of its life. But it will have an in-stock Switch eating its lunch from next year onward, and when will the PS5 hit?
Click to expand...

I don't think Sony was trying to position the PS4 as the dominant system in Japan. But even if they are I personally have zero issue saying for a system with all the third party support the PS4 is failing big time.

But I don't think you can look at solely the hardware and say "oh this is a niche product". If the PS4 is a niche product then what isn't a niche product in the gaming sphere. Is every game that isn't Mario, Splatoon, Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest or Pokemon now a niche game?
 
K

KtSlime

Member
Gotdatmoney said:
Of course niche is about sales at the end of the day and if you include mobile install base every system is niche. There will be more smart phones sold this year than all systems combined. Does that make the PS4 a niche system worldwide?

It's so weird to call the PS4 a niche product. In gen 7 the worst selling hardware was the PSP. Is a system that sells 80 million units a niche product in the gaming sphere because it was last place? The PS4 will probably wnd a little over 10m when all is said and done. It receives all the major support. It sells decent amounts of software. If this product is niche is the only platform that isn't niche a phone?
Click to expand...

Things can be niche in one market and mainstream in another. Lays Chips are niche in Japan, mainstream in America. Pocky is mainstream in Japan, niche in America. It happens all the time.


Anyway, once PS4 makes it to 10 million, there may be an argument to re-evaluate if it is a niche product or not, but at the moment, it's kind of niche.
 
V

vareon

Member
I wonder if Nintendo will keep the "Splatoon 2 content updates for a year, Splatfests at least two years" statement.
 
Laplasakos

Laplasakos

Member
D.Lo said:
Agreed, I think niche is a positive word, it means 'not mainstream, but has carved out its own market sector'.

The only other way of looking at it is as a big failure to be the mainstream market leader it was trying to be. Maybe it isn't a niche, just a failed bid for the big time?

Also, so many throwing around the '10 million LTD' figure for PS4 when that would mean it would have doubled its current sales. PS3 got to that ballpark largely through attrition and an extremely prolonged lifespan. PS4 has so far had everything going for it - price, all the big games, massive sustained western success, and almost no competition in the home console space most of its life. But it will have an in-stock Switch eating its lunch from next year onward, and when will the PS5 hit?
Click to expand...

The only way of looking at it, is that you are looking it wrong, seeing that you thought it was gonna be the market leader and sell 20m. PS4 is a failure just because it didn't met your personal expectations? I mean i know your opinion about PS4, you make it sure we all are every week where you don't forget to call it a failure and that third parties should embrace Switch but with this you are going it to a whole new level.

Following your logic, i expect Switch to sell double the amount of 3DS, so around 50m units, otherwise it's a huge failure.
 
F

Fiendcode

Member
Nichegate is the new Couplegate.

At least it's not MH talk I guess.

wrowa said:
I don't think I'll ever understand Koei Tecmo's release strategy. Why are they releasing two horse racing games on the same day? Is the userbase so niche that most people will just pick up both? Similarly confusing is that day when they'll pump out a couple of old Musou games.
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To be fair one is more of a management sim (Winning Post) while the other's more arcade racer (Champion Jockey). Same sport but different game genes.

Oemenia said:
Is there any explanation for the decline, the game went from a 500k seller to a 200k after 2013.
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Well, they kept dropping platforms for one (Wii, PSP, 3DS) while not adding platforms that would've made sense (Vita, Switch). Maybe they could add Switch next year but it's going to require a Fox Engine port.
 
V

Vinnk

Member
gundamkyoukai said:
That is like saying all manga that not OP , AOT , Naruto etc etc are niche because they don't sell millions per vol .
Click to expand...

Most manga IS niche. The majority of the Japanese population does not read manga on a regular basis outside of a few of the more popular titles. That does not make Manga bad it just means most manga titles are only known within the niche of enthusiastic Manga readers.

Other Niche things:

Subscribing to Podcasts
Gaming on a Mac
Most non-news magazines cater to a niche
Collecting (basically any type of collecting is a niche activity)
Listening to vinyl
etc.

Again, niche is not bad. But maybe it's still the word. Lets use "Enthusiast" instead.

"The PS4 is selling at expectations within the enthusiast community"

I'm really not meaning to offend. 90% of the things I love the most are niche.
 
N

noshten

Member
LordKano said:
That question was already answered : Super Mario Odyssey.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that it was already confirmed. If this is the case SMO might sell well over 1 million this year in Japan which is kinda of crazy.

vareon said:
I wonder if Nintendo will keep the "Splatoon 2 content updates for a year, Splatfests at least two years" statement.
Click to expand...

I'm sure we'd get support for a bit longer than 1 year - it's just likely to be more sporadic compared to the first year. The original Splatoon received updates for about 10 months, but it only sold to about 2-3 million people in that time. By the time Splatoon 2 is in it's second year it's likely to have sold three or four times that, which provides more incentives for Nintendo to continue to update it as it would be a major source of paid subs(especially in Japan).
 
U

unapersson

Member
D.Lo said:
Agreed, I think niche is a positive word, it means 'not mainstream, but has carved out its own market sector'.

The only other way of looking at it is as a big failure to be the mainstream market leader it was trying to be. Maybe it isn't a niche, just a failed bid for the big time?
Click to expand...

Whether niche or big failure, both of those perspectives need you to pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. I know that's the done thing in MC threads, but does make the idea seem slightly absurd.

Even if it doesn't do as well in Japan, because it's tied to a television in a front room and the Japanese consumers are more mobile orientated, it has a far bigger awareness than a niche product would simply because of its history and global presence. It's about as mainstream as you could get.
 
G

gundamkyoukai

Member
fortunato said:
Of course, sales and specialization are highly correlated with each other! The point is, looking for a threshold below which a product is niche is completely meaningless if you don't know reference points and the size of the market. 10m can be considered mass-market if the product is able to attract a wide and heterogenous audience; it is silly to take 10m out of context and saying "this is not niche/this is niche" based solely on sales volume itself.
Click to expand...

I can understand you point .
Still even when your break down what section the product specialization in there has to be a middle ground .
I guess that is what things whole debate about lol.
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
fortunato said:
It is not if sales are taken out of context. And in general it is not, really. Niche defines the type of audience a product is trying to cater, and everything is in relative terms. Also, I was not directly comparing smartphones sales with console sales, but the type of public they attract. 3DS and smartphone/mobile gaming can be both part of a mass market, even if one caters a way larger audience.
Click to expand...

If your argument is about the type of audience it appeals to you have to have a baseline of sales to use to define it. For example, the Wii sold 2 million more units than the PS3 despite the Wii being a system meant to target a wider demographic. So is the Wii not niche but the PS3 is despite the end sales being similar? What you are proposing allows situations where the destinction is unclear.

Again, you are strictly talking about hardware sales. PSP was not a niche product; in Japan, it was able to attract a wider audience, even though much more homogeneous than DS and 3DS'.
Click to expand...

I never mentioned Japan specifically. But I dont get what you are even arguing at this point. You have to make an actual line in the sand. Right now all you're saying is the line is where you arbitrarily want to draw it. If you want to base it on target audience then it isn't about sales. If you want to base it on sales then its about market penetration which you can back up with numbers.
 
F

fortunato

Banned
gundamkyoukai said:
I can understand you point .
Still even when your break down what section the product specialization in there has to be a middle ground .
I guess that is what things whole debate about lol.
Click to expand...

Of course there is a middle ground. I do not think PS4 has yet reached one. Family and kid-oriented games are missing, outside of Minecraft. Taiko performance will be telling because it is a popular family game.

Gotdatmoney said:
If your argument is about the type of audience it appeals to you have to have a baseline of sales to use to define it. For example, the Wii sold 2 million more units than the PS3 despite the Wii being a system meant to target a wider demographic. So is the Wii not niche but the PS3 is despite the end sales being similar? What you are proposing allows situations where the destinction is unclear.
Click to expand...

It's not my argument: it's the very definition of what a niche is! In Japan, the Wii did not have a much wider demo than PS3: just a different one.

Gotdatmoney said:
I never mentioned Japan specifically. But I dont get what you are even arguing at this point. You have to make an actual line in the sand. Right now all you're saying is the line is where you arbitrarily want to draw it. If you want to base it on target audience then it isn't about sales. If you want to base it on sales then its about market penetration which you can back up with numbers.
Click to expand...

Ehm, it was me to call PS4 a niche product. I know what niche means, it's part of my job. When we talk about niches we mainly talk about target audiences. Sales volume, per se, is a meaningless metric to discuss though, obviously, very correlated. But if you don't know, e.g., the market size, the market potential, even what the market under analysis is!, sales volume is a secondary aspect.
 
S

SuperLeviathan

Member
Splatoon is unstoppable.

The REAL suprise here is Metroid. This is several times what Federation Force did, so the problem last time wasn't with the franchise.
 
G

gundamkyoukai

Member
Vinnk said:
Most manga IS niche. The majority of the Japanese population does not read manga on a regular basis outside of a few of the more popular titles. That does not make Manga bad it just means most manga titles are only known within the niche of enthusiastic Manga readers.

Other Niche things:

Subscribing to Podcasts
Gaming on a Mac
Most non-news magazines cater to a niche
Collecting (basically any type of collecting is a niche activity)
Listening to vinyl
etc.

Again, niche is not bad. But maybe it's still the word. Lets use "Enthusiast" instead.

"The PS4 is selling at expectations within the enthusiast community"

I'm really not meaning to offend. 90% of the things I love the most are niche.
Click to expand...

I am not saying the word is bad but in certain context it is not the right word .
Let us used back manga sales eg i used saying a title selling 750k niche when talking only about manga sales would not fit .
If we say talking about yearly manga sales.
Truth is if you want you can make most things niche .
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
Gotdatmoney said:
If your argument is about the type of audience it appeals to you have to have a baseline of sales to use to define it. For example, the Wii sold 2 million more units than the PS3 despite the Wii being a system meant to target a wider demographic. So is the Wii not niche but the PS3 is despite the end sales being similar? What you are proposing allows situations where the destinction is unclear.
Click to expand...
Definitions are always slippery. "'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, 'it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.'"

My take:
The Wii was a big mainstream hit for three years, then dropped off to be basically nothing a year after that. It was never a niche, it was a hit and then it was nothing.

The PS3 was an outright failure to begin with, that over time rebuilt and grew to be a decent niche later.
 
T

test_account

XP-39C²
Principate said:
It's roughly where it's usually been but it's at point where most of it's major pushes have occurred has the majority of third party is on the device and is on a decline to the lower end of it's typical sales with a release.

Basically the chances of the PS4 increasing beyond this base line are slim which is what I was hoping it would do (at least 30k ish). As this be will be another contraction as the vita dies off.

Japanese third parties aren't exactly jumping at the switch so despite probable two break out consoles worldwide the domestic industry isn't looking all that hot.

Hence that's not good.
Click to expand...
I understand. Any specific reason why you thought PS4 would increase to at 30k minimum on a weekly basis at this point in time?

I dont think it was expected that Winning Eleven 2018 would do much for the hardware sales since its the 4th game in the serie on PS4.

I think PS4 could sell better in 2018 than it did in 2017.
 
K

KtSlime

Member
unapersson said:
Whether niche or big failure, both of those perspectives need you to pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. I know that's the done thing in MC threads, but does make the idea seem slightly absurd.

Even if it doesn't do as well in Japan, because it's tied to a television in a front room and the Japanese consumers are more mobile orientated, it has a far bigger awareness than a niche product would simply because of its history and global presence. It's about as mainstream as you could get.
Click to expand...

I know it is probably well known in other countries, If people were asked "tell me what the latest PlayStation console is" less than half would answer 4 if I were to guess. I have not done this experiment, but this is my guess based on past conversations with friends and colleagues regarding games. It's probably increased quite a bit since DQ11, but still. The PlayStation brand still is in the zeitgeist, but the current product is not.

You could think of it like this: Apple is not niche, but the Mac is.

Edit: I am talking about Japan and their knowledge of the PS4.
 
L

L~A

Member
vareon said:
I wonder if Nintendo will keep the "Splatoon 2 content updates for a year, Splatfests at least two years" statement.
Click to expand...

Yup, because I don't think those are meant to be taken literally (as in "no more maps after July 21st 2018 and no more Splatfests after July 21st 2019).

Even without regular DLC, evergreen Nintendo games always keep selling years after release (I mean, just look at Animal Crossing), and I expect the same for Splatoon 2.
 
A

Alrus

Member
SuperLeviathan said:
The REAL suprise here is Metroid. This is several times what Federation Force did, so the problem last time wasn't with the franchise.
Click to expand...

I mean yeah... Federation Force was one of the most unappealing game Nintendo put out in recent times, only rivaled by Codename STEAM.
 
G

gundamkyoukai

Member
KtSlime said:
I know it is probably well known in other countries, If people were asked "tell me what the latest PlayStation console is" less than half would answer 4 if I were to guess. I have not done this experiment, but this is my guess based on past conversations with friends and colleagues regarding games. It's probably increased quite a bit since DQ11, but still. The PlayStation brand still is in the zeitgeist, but the current product is not.

You could think of it like this: Apple is not niche, but the Mac is.

Edit: I am talking about Japan and their knowledge of the PS4.
Click to expand...

I would think part of the reason is because PS4 not in line with the current market values .
 
Laplasakos

Laplasakos

Member
Vinnk said:
Most manga IS niche. The majority of the Japanese population does not read manga on a regular basis outside of a few of the more popular titles. That does not make Manga bad it just means most manga titles are only known within the niche of enthusiastic Manga readers.

Other Niche things:

Subscribing to Podcasts
Gaming on a Mac
Most non-news magazines cater to a niche
Collecting (basically any type of collecting is a niche activity)
Listening to vinyl
etc.

Again, niche is not bad. But maybe it's still the word. Lets use "Enthusiast" instead.

"The PS4 is selling at expectations within the enthusiast community"

I'm really not meaning to offend. 90% of the things I love the most are niche.
Click to expand...

I think you really don't know (along with some others here) the definition of niche. Following your logic playing videogames is niche. Every gaming system is niche if you compare it to mobile. 3DS is a niche product compared to iPhone. Just making an examples, like you're are doing.
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
KtSlime said:
I know it is probably well known in other countries, If people were asked "tell me what the latest PlayStation console is" less than half would answer 4 if I were to guess. I have not done this experiment, but this is my guess based on past conversations with friends and colleagues regarding games. It's probably increased quite a bit since DQ11, but still. The PlayStation brand still is in the zeitgeist, but the current product is not.
Edit: I am talking about Japan and their knowledge of the PS4.
Click to expand...
That sounds pretty extreme honestly?

I mean that logic does apply to the Wii U worldwide most likely (eg people at my work who thought the Switch was the next Nintendo console after the Wii), but I would have thought even in Japan anybody who even knows vaguely about gaming would know the PS4 exists?

One positive of Sony's boring console naming scheme is that it's easy to remember which Playstation is the current one!

Laplasakos said:
I think you really don't know (along with some others here) the definition of niche. Following your logic playing videogames is niche. Every gaming system is niche if you compare it to mobile. 3DS is a niche product compared to iPhone. Just making an examples, like you're are doing.
Click to expand...
It's not that hard. Yes console gaming is a niche in society. But the PS4 is a niche in console gaming in Japan.

Laplasakos said:
Following your logic, i expect Switch to sell double the amount of 3DS, so around 50m units, otherwise it's a huge failure.
Click to expand...
This makes less than zero sense.
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
D.Lo said:
Definitions are always slippery.
Click to expand...

I mean, a lot of yall want to say the PS4 is niche so it clearly isn't that slippery or we wouldnt be talking about this.

My take:
The Wii was a big mainstream hit for three years, then dropped off to be basically nothing a year after that. It was never a niche, it was a hit and then it was nothing.

The PS3 was an outright failure to begin with, that over time rebuilt and grew to be a decent niche later.
Click to expand...

I agree with this assessment sure. But if you want to use this assessment then we really shouldn't even bother looking at LTD in discussion about relevant and irrelevant systems (which frankly I'm fine with).

Imo what defines a niche product in the gaming market is a system lacking brand awareness and presence as well as sales both hardware and software. These combined allow us to determine whether a product was as a totality niche and whether its current situation makes it relevant or not.

For example the WiiU probably had a wider demographic appeal than the PS4 but it's still an unappealing product and it's software and hardware sales were poor. Is it a niche product? I mean I suppose it is but it was still garnering decent christmas months. It still survived 4 years and it still had 3 million sellers. Everyone knows what it was.

I see the PS4 as basically a ++ version of that except with way more software support, better brand awareness, better software sales and obviously better hardware sales. Of the system is niche it just strikes me that pretty much every product is niche if it doesn't sell 20m units.
 
K

KtSlime

Member
gundamkyoukai said:
I would think part of the reason is because PS4 not in line with the current market values .
Click to expand...

Oh of course, that is a big part I am sure. The PS2 was by no other definition a massive hit, the PS4 on the other hand, could be considered niche (in Japan).

D.Lo said:
That sounds pretty extreme honestly?

I mean that logic does apply to the Wii U worldwide most likely (eg people at my work who thought the Switch was the next Nintendo console after the Wii), but I would have thought even in Japan anybody who even knows vaguely about gaming would know the PS4 exists?

One positive of Sony's boring console naming scheme is that it's easy to remember which Playstation is the current one!
Click to expand...

Part of the problem is that many of the people familiar with the PlayStation name stopped gaming on PlayStation consoles after the PS2. That means they might not be aware of how many consoles Sony has released since then, however I think the numbering scheme does work in the favor of people answering correctly. Bet the number if I asked about the PSP successors name would be much smaller.
 
D

dracula_x

Member
Laplasakos said:
I think you really don't know (along with some others here) the definition of niche. Following your logic playing videogames is niche. Every gaming system is niche if you compare it to mobile. 3DS is a niche product compared to iPhone. Just making an examples, like you're are doing.
Click to expand...

and Japan is a niche country compared to US and China :)
 
P

perfectchaos007

Member
20./00. [NSW] Champion Jockey Special <SLG> (Koei Tecmo) {2017.09.14} (¥7.800) - 2.626 / NEW


I guess horse racing games aren't that popular in Japan. Lowest selling physical Switch game ever thus far?
 
G

gundamkyoukai

Member
KtSlime said:
Oh of course, that is a big part I am sure. The PS2 was by no other definition a massive hit, the PS4 on the other hand, could be considered niche (in Japan).
Click to expand...

Well yeah the PS2 was at a different time.
I think the PSP\DS gen show how big portable gaming was getting \ is and now we have mobile .
There is no gen in Japan where the second place system sell so much .
If you put PSP\DS together it sold more hardware that every gen if add there systems together .
 
A

Alrus

Member
perfectchaos007 said:
20./00. [NSW] Champion Jockey Special <SLG> (Koei Tecmo) {2017.09.14} (¥7.800) - 2.626 / NEW


I guess horse racing games aren't that popular in Japan. Lowest selling physical Switch game ever thus far?
Click to expand...

Some of the jockey games sell decently but those are (afaik) late ports and Koei released two on the same day for some reason.

I think the lowest selling switch game is a Romance of the Three Kindgom or Nobunaga Ambition though?
 
K

KtSlime

Member
perfectchaos007 said:
20./00. [NSW] Champion Jockey Special <SLG> (Koei Tecmo) {2017.09.14} (¥7.800) - 2.626 / NEW


I guess horse racing games aren't that popular in Japan. Lowest selling physical Switch game ever thus far?
Click to expand...

It's not that they aren't popular, but rather that they are just niche...
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
Gotdatmoney said:
I agree with this assessment sure. But if you want to use this assessment then we really shouldn't even bother looking at LTD in discussion about relevant and irrelevant systems (which frankly I'm fine with).

Imo what defines a niche product in the gaming market is a system lacking brand awareness and presence as well as sales both hardware and software. These combined allow us to determine whether a product was as a totality niche and whether its current situation makes it relevant or not.
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Totally agree LTDs, while somewhat related, are not the point. Markets shift and change along the way too, something could start as a mainstream item and become niche later (eg some genres - look at shoot em ups), or could start as a niche, or failure, and become mainstream later (I daresay this was the initial trajectory of Monster Hunter). In console terms PSP probably shifted from niche to mainstream in Japan, while in the 90s the broader 'Nintendo brand' went from mainstream to niche in the SNES -> N64 transition.

For example the WiiU probably had a wider demographic appeal than the PS4 but it's still an unappealing product and it's software and hardware sales were poor. Is it a niche product? I mean I suppose it is but it was still garnering decent christmas months. It still survived 4 years and it still had 3 million sellers. Everyone knows what it was.

I see the PS4 as basically a ++ version of that except with way more software support, better brand awareness, better software sales and obviously better hardware sales. Of the system is niche it just strikes me that pretty much every product is niche if it doesn't sell 20m units
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I've no idea about the perception of the consoles from a Japanese perspective, but it seems crazy to me the Wii U could have anything even near comparable brand awareness as a playstation. It was just such a complete cultural non-entity where I am from.
 
D

Deku89

Member
Now, is it possible to have a mainstream game on a niche system? For example, Mario Kart on Wii U. If the system is niche, it means it caters to a certain audience. But if a game is mainstream, it's to a wide audience. If they need the niche system to play the mainstream game, is the system still niche?
 
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