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Audiophile quality PC speakers
- Thread starter nitewulf
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Thread revival! So I'm in need of an audio overhaul for mainly music listening in a regular sized room. (desk)
The route i'm contemplating right now: Macbook -> USB DAC -> active speakers.
Would this be an "ideal" setup, or are there any proponents for optical output or passive bookshelfs? Should I invest in an integrated amp if I want to add a sub later on? Would amp + passive bookshelf be better value than active? I saw some references to the t-amp in this thread.
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USB DAC: Under $200 would be good, if not $100-ish.
Speakers: ~$200-300 for a pair would be nice.
The M200MkII posted on the first page looks nice. I've heard big things about the Audioengine A2 as well.
As for a passive set, the Paradigm Atom v.3 look good, but I'd need an amp. (which means more money) Another problem with this route is that they are discontinued.
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What are everyone's opinions on studio monitors? I've heard various opinions regarding them for regular listening and some say to stay away because of their flat and fatiguing sound. I don't want a speaker that's very shrill and critical that's enough to fatigue you after a few hours of listening, no matter how "accurate" they are.
The route i'm contemplating right now: Macbook -> USB DAC -> active speakers.
Would this be an "ideal" setup, or are there any proponents for optical output or passive bookshelfs? Should I invest in an integrated amp if I want to add a sub later on? Would amp + passive bookshelf be better value than active? I saw some references to the t-amp in this thread.
--
USB DAC: Under $200 would be good, if not $100-ish.
Speakers: ~$200-300 for a pair would be nice.
The M200MkII posted on the first page looks nice. I've heard big things about the Audioengine A2 as well.
As for a passive set, the Paradigm Atom v.3 look good, but I'd need an amp. (which means more money) Another problem with this route is that they are discontinued.
--
What are everyone's opinions on studio monitors? I've heard various opinions regarding them for regular listening and some say to stay away because of their flat and fatiguing sound. I don't want a speaker that's very shrill and critical that's enough to fatigue you after a few hours of listening, no matter how "accurate" they are.
check out some USB DACs here: http://www.audio-magus.com/category_s/6.htm
search for reviews. i read some reviews of the Swans, they seem to be very good for the price. w/ an USB DAC and those active speakers you might be set.
search for reviews. i read some reviews of the Swans, they seem to be very good for the price. w/ an USB DAC and those active speakers you might be set.
Winged Creature
Member
for USB dacs look at the cambridge audio dac magic, or the musical fidelity V-DAC both are budget dacs that are getting great reviews
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MFVDAC
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CADACMAGI
as for speakers
PSB image series are great or u can get the energy RC series on sale at audioadvisor as well,
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MFVDAC
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CADACMAGI
as for speakers
PSB image series are great or u can get the energy RC series on sale at audioadvisor as well,
Winged Creature
Member
giga said:
I have the Paradigm Atom V.5 ( the V.6 are out now) and let me tell u the new atoms are better then the old ones in every aspect, so there not discontinued just a new version of em are out, check them out nice sound for the price.
*drools*
soooo nice... <3 <3 <3
giga, if you're in the nyc area, you can walk into "sounds by singer" or "in living stereo", specially ILS guys are very nice. and just talk to them and see if you could audition some speakers and equipment from some of the brands within your budget.
soooo nice... <3 <3 <3
giga, if you're in the nyc area, you can walk into "sounds by singer" or "in living stereo", specially ILS guys are very nice. and just talk to them and see if you could audition some speakers and equipment from some of the brands within your budget.
Winged Creature
Member
musical fidelity gear is great, but i like naim stuff a tad more 
Witchfinder General
punched Wheelchair Mike
I hate Musical Fidelity gear. Not because the gear sounds bad (It's fine, if not to my taste) but because the head of the company, Antony Michaelson, is a fucking hack.
"You need thousands of watts to properly drive speakers. Don't compromise."
"Oh, wait, our thirty watt amps are great too!"
MAKE UP YOUR FUCKING MIND.
"You need thousands of watts to properly drive speakers. Don't compromise."
"Oh, wait, our thirty watt amps are great too!"
MAKE UP YOUR FUCKING MIND.
Witchfinder General
punched Wheelchair Mike
Yeah, I know.
While we're posting gear we plan to get, this is what I'm thinking of getting:
Plinius Tautoro Preamp:
Here's a link to a review.
A reference preamp with a high quality headphone amp is just what I've been looking for.
While we're posting gear we plan to get, this is what I'm thinking of getting:
Plinius Tautoro Preamp:
Here's a link to a review.
A reference preamp with a high quality headphone amp is just what I've been looking for.
I might slow down on the headphone thing and go into speakers after the Denons arrive. I much prefer not to have a gizmo attached to my head while I'm listening to music and I don't really have the need to hear every ding, cough, and paper shuffle in the background of the song.
That's a nice setup Nitewulf has.
That's a nice setup Nitewulf has.
Witchfinder General
punched Wheelchair Mike
I'm also contemplating this:
Dynaudio Confidence C1
Dare I, GAF?
Dynaudio Confidence C1
Dare I, GAF?
Witchfinder General
punched Wheelchair Mike
Gallbaro said:
If you read up on them the aesthetic result of the speaker is due to strict sonic principles.
Basically, form follows function.
APZonerunner
Member
srst said:
Just wanted to chime in and say I got a couple of these a few years ago. They're fantastic for the price. I've moved up to a more expensive set now, but these guys still get regular use.
dynaudios? without a second thought. without a second thought. after the break in period, my speakers are putting out sound that i've previously only dreamed about. source files are uncompressed of course...female vocals just sorta float in the air somewhere. and bass taps, or drums make a slow rumble. it hits the back of your head.Witchfinder General said:I'm also contemplating this:
Dynaudio Confidence C1
Dare I, GAF?
dynaudios by nature seem to be polite though, IIRC, you're a metal head, so audition before you buy dyns.
as for the plinius amp, i've been looking into them and they seem to be excellent for the money. im looking for a tube integrated though...cause i dont think i can give up the tube warmth after getting used to it. however, i could still use the decco pre-amp section and then go for a solid state plinius amp or something. down the line though...
Witchfinder General
punched Wheelchair Mike
Gallbaro said:
Don't take my word on it:
Bauhaus rather than Art Deco.
nitewulf said:
Yeah, I sell Dynaudio so I'm used to their character but from what I've heard the top-end of their range seem to be voiced with strict neutrality.
Plinius and Dyns go together very well (I also sell Plinius) and you might want to consider the 9200 integrated amp.
My only concern is my listening room: It's fucking tiny. My Focal Electra 1007BE, whilst excellent, aren't suited to the room. Besides, they've become a little fatiguing to listen to and whilst they are amazing for Metal they're not that great with other genres.
I'll probably try to demo a pair of the C1s in my room for a few days before I decide.
EDIT: Just measured my room at it seems it's not as bad as I thought as I sit within the recommended distance for the speakers.
uh huh, i have been eye-ing the 9200 actually...either that or save up some money and go for a used mcintosh MC2102, that would be perfect for my tastes.Witchfinder General said:
as for listening room, yes, that was my biggest concern as well. some of the bigger models actually will be overwhelming. the 140s are perfect for my listening room, while its not tiny (15X12X11), it is pretty small. bigger speakers will be overwhelming. small-ish floorstanders like vandersteen 1Cs will probably work well in my room, but i wasnt too keen on their sound. C1's should be great for any small rooms. hell many people use them as their mains. these speakers are deceiving as far as size goes...they'd fill up a 1000 sq-ft apartment nicely if there were no walls.
Upgraded my system. Basically the Dyns were very power hungry and the 50wpc Decco was just not cutting it, it was putting out very good sound at moderate levels...but whenever I tried to listen at louder levels, to increase the sound-stage, it'd cut out. So now I'm using the Decco as a pre-amp, and I got the Mcintosh MC-252 power amplifier driving the Dyns. I also made my own silver interconnects...which was pretty fun to do. I used to be a DIY kid, but had given up tinkering around a while back...so it was very fun to make myself some high quality interconnects. They make a shitload of difference...I was playing the Mcintosh through regular A/V cables so far...and the sound was tiny, brittle and really harsh. My interconnects already sound a lot smoother, they are supposed to get a lot better as they break in. We'll see...
This seems like the right place to ask, so...
Here's my situation: my main source of music used to be my parent's huge, old awesome Sony amp + CD player coupled with my Sennheiser HD595s. Now though, I'm at university and all I have I have is an iPod and a MacBook, and plugging my HD595s into either one of those is quite a downgrade from what I was used to. The thing is, I know almost nothing about high-end audio equipment; I have no idea what to do. (I bought the headphones on GAF's recommendation)
What can I do to have a decent listening experience with my MacBook? I guess I need a headphone amp? But what kind? And do I need something else? Oh and what are these "DACs" I'm hearing about? Help!
Edit: Thought I should add that I don't have a lot of money, being at uni and all, but I'm prepared to spend a bit of cash for something I'll be using for a long time. If I could afford my headphones, I guess I can afford something to make them sound good.
Here's my situation: my main source of music used to be my parent's huge, old awesome Sony amp + CD player coupled with my Sennheiser HD595s. Now though, I'm at university and all I have I have is an iPod and a MacBook, and plugging my HD595s into either one of those is quite a downgrade from what I was used to. The thing is, I know almost nothing about high-end audio equipment; I have no idea what to do. (I bought the headphones on GAF's recommendation)
What can I do to have a decent listening experience with my MacBook? I guess I need a headphone amp? But what kind? And do I need something else? Oh and what are these "DACs" I'm hearing about? Help!
Edit: Thought I should add that I don't have a lot of money, being at uni and all, but I'm prepared to spend a bit of cash for something I'll be using for a long time. If I could afford my headphones, I guess I can afford something to make them sound good.
DACs are digital to analog converters, a DAC will use the digital format from your PC/iPod directly and convert it to analog for amplification. You need a nice tube or solid state DAC/headphone amp package.
you need something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0017JHYJI/?tag=neogaf0e-20
or you could go for a tube amp like these:
http://www.pacificvalve.us/Headphones.html
Bada is a chinese brand that basically knocks off classic western designs...and they are well made. Lot of hi-fi gear are being made in china nowadays with western quality control (for consumers here obviously), so they are pretty great for the money.
but dont go off buying something right away, let others chime in here and read a lot of reviews!
you need something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0017JHYJI/?tag=neogaf0e-20
or you could go for a tube amp like these:
http://www.pacificvalve.us/Headphones.html
Bada is a chinese brand that basically knocks off classic western designs...and they are well made. Lot of hi-fi gear are being made in china nowadays with western quality control (for consumers here obviously), so they are pretty great for the money.
but dont go off buying something right away, let others chime in here and read a lot of reviews!
Winged Creature
Member
nitewulf said:Upgraded my system. Basically the Dyns were very power hungry and the 50wpc Decco was just not cutting it, it was putting out very good sound at moderate levels...but whenever I tried to listen at louder levels, to increase the sound-stage, it'd cut out. So now I'm using the Decco as a pre-amp, and I got the Mcintosh MC-252 power amplifier driving the Dyns. I also made my own silver interconnects...which was pretty fun to do. I used to be a DIY kid, but had given up tinkering around a while back...so it was very fun to make myself some high quality interconnects. They make a shitload of difference...I was playing the Mcintosh through regular A/V cables so far...and the sound was tiny, brittle and really harsh. My interconnects already sound a lot smoother, they are supposed to get a lot better as they break in. We'll see...
wow you ended up going hardcore, how much did the mcintosh set you back?? Beautiful stuff, hopefully i'll be able to go the power amp route, maybe after i upgrade the speakers i can use my integrated as a pre-amp
the Mcintosh set me back about $3000. dude, i don't know what your budget is, but i'd suggest getting a used Meridian G57 200wpc power amp from audiogon. that particular model is going for ~$1200-$1600 bucks there. unbelievably good sounding amp. while i was in the market for a power amp, the dealer offered me his demo unit for $4000 bucks...and i almost considered it. it sounds soooo good. he demo-ed it w/ fantastic speakers, but they wouldn't sound good if the amp didn't drive them well. New retail price is $5000. but audiogon listings usually go for sub $2000...i suspect mostly because people don't really recognize the brand as much.Winged Creature said:
the Mcintosh is even better but that's another story altogether...
BudokaiMR2
Member
zhenming said:If youre on a $100 budget get these.... SOOO GOODDD!!!!.gif
-sound is good
-look is good
-price is good
-goods made in china
This is a good time to ask a question I had been wondering about.
I have a 5.1 Denon setup that I use for gaming on my 360 and PS3. I hook both up with the digital optical cable and it sounds amazing(especially the PS3 on certain games).
I also use the speakers with my macbook pro hooked up through the headphone jack to the back of my reciever. Is there anyway to get better sound through my laptop or is that best way?
BudokaiMR2 said:
The headphone jack on a MBP is also an optical connection, get one of these:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...d=1022902&p_id=1557&seq=1&format=1#largeimage
nitewulf said:
Don't be one of those dudes, bro. Cables don't break in, and any difference you heard was imagined, unless something was SERIOUSLY wrong with the cables you had. Like super serious.
pre-amp to amp interconnect quality does affect the audio quality. its pretty clear to hear the differences. its also easy to explain why...pj325is said:
ideally you want no loss of signal between the pre-amp and amp, anything in that path will cause signal degradation, however little. but of course you have to connect the pre-amp to the amp. the more devices you have in this path, the more signal degradations you'll have. the first device is the RCA connector, then the wire itself, and then the other RCA connector. they are all lossy. i'm strictly talking engineering here, nothing else. when you use $5 L/R RCAs from radio shak, yes the signal will pass through, but there will be a massive loss in quality. basically the interconnect between the pre-amp and amp is a limiting factor, no matter how good your power amp is, it'll only be able to amplify the signal that's passed to it, and shoddy connectors and thin stranded copper cables aren't the best way to pass the signal.
usually with low quality cables, the sound will be harsh and tinny, muffled. yet again, i feel like i am going into odd territories and being "that guy" by spouting these adjectives...i'd much rather give an actual demo to people, the differences in quality are very easy to tell apart. one will sound harsh and hit your ear, the bass will not be as hard hitting or tight, the other will have sweet, toned highs, deep, tightly controlled bass, and so forth.
nitewulf said:
"lossy" and "engineering" don't go together. What is it losing, specifically? I consider myself well versed in electronics so don't be afraid of going over my head.
There's a lot of marketing money behind snake oil products in the audiophile industry, most disgustingly with cables. It's amazing what people pay for things like optical cables or hdmi cables that cannot physically be better than the $5 shit from monoprice. Power cables, interconnects and speaker wire are all just as bad. The biggest problem with debunking these things is that the placebo effect is strong and your brain might be interpreting the sound differently because it expects it to be different. I would better every dollar I have that if you had someone setup a blind comparison for you with monoprice cables and whatever cables you have, you would not be able to tell which is which at a higher rate than just guessing.
BudokaiMR2
Member
pj325is said:
Well fucking hell, I am glad I thought to ask that.
pj325is said:
Thats not true. There are always resistive, capacitive and inductive losses. And the sharp contours of the RCA pins will have electromagnetic fringe-losses. Thats just physics. Thats why youll notice on power lines, connectors are always molded smooth, smoother connectors reduce fringe losses. In this situation though, we are worried about degradation of the signal curve itself. Stranded copper conductors will be a worse conducting path for electrons than solid conductors at these current levels. Im not quite sure what causes the harshness in audio, it might be a limiting effect on the high frequencies due to the conductor. But the harshness is there, specially pronounced with hi-fi amps and speakers. Guitar tones and voices will seem screetchy. The harshness was eliminated by my interconnects, thats for sure. The situation was, w/o the power amp the music was beautiful, warm, smooth. Its a tube pre-amp and my speakers were completely broken-in (well talk about break-in a bit later). And I am familiar with my music so I know what to look for.
After the addition of the power amp, through the cable I had lying around the house, the sound quality degraded. Well, thats not supposed to happen! Power output went up obviously, 50watts vs. 250 watts, but the music was harsh, distant, the warmth was gone. So rather than buying over-priced snake-oil products, I just made my own conductors with good quality off-the-shelf parts. Of course I did tests with one channel hooked up via the old cable and the other channel hooked up via my cable. I didnt have mono files which would have been the best source for comparison, but as you switch the channels guess what, there is a clear difference between treble and how bass is handled.
pj325is said:
I agree to an extent. I dont think power cables will have much, if any, effect on audio quality. Interconnects can be thought of as internal wiring of an integrated amp, the less it interferes, the better. Speaker wires I think small gauge regulars wires that you can buy in bulk at any store will be worse than well designed speaker cables.
pj325is said:
I think not just me, youd be able to tell the differences between the cable I replaced, and the one I made. I dont know much about monoprice cables though. However, like I said earlier, the differences only become pronounced with high quality gear. With regular single driver PC speakers, this will not be an issue. The speaker wont have the fidelity to pronounce the missing components in the music.
As for break-in. My speakers had to be broken in for 150 to 200 hours at least. The mid-woofer is made of a very stiff material and out of the box, it doesnt achieve the dynamics to output high quality sound. Most hi-fi speakers are this way. You notice the change as you keep playing them, this is not a placebo effect. Even the company guide lines tell you to break them in.
Are some people retarded for paying thousands of dollars on interconnects and power cables, and line conditioners and so forth? yes, i think they are. but there are some vital chains in your system that you need to make sure aren't limiting the rest of your components. its like setting up a quad-core pc with 64kbytes of cache or 128 MB ram. those become the limiting factors. interconnects are like that. a high quality intergrated amp wont have this problem, its a one box solution. but you need to keep in mind when chaning a high quality pre-amp and a high quality power-amp, that whatever interconnects you're using has to be have the least amount of effect.
afternoon delight
Member
Just would like to thank everyone in this thread. So much great information, and I'll soon be putting all these albums in FLAC to use.
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