IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Are you trying to tell us, that you expect the next Generation (for Microsoft and Sony) to be an 8-10x leap...really?
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Wii U Speculation Thread 2: Can't take anymore of this!!!
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Are you trying to tell us, that you expect the next Generation (for Microsoft and Sony) to be an 8-10x leap...really?
tkscz
Member
2x-5x isn't dramatic, it's normal, except for Sony. Again, graphic wise, the 360 is only about 6x the original Xbox. Look at some of the last games to be released on the Xbox, hell games like KotOR were amazing looking on the Xbox. Sony was the one who made that huge jump from PS2 to PS3.
Really?, "Not dramatically more powerful" and "less powerful" is entirely consistent?
cyberheater
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It's totally unreal. Some folks need to take a few reality pills.
Why do you think he's telling you that? He said nothing about any next generation console being a 8-10x leap did he?
Again, he said nothing about expecting any next gen console to be 8-10x 360. Why make silly assumptions like this?
There's a lot of noncommittal statements out there that can be interpreted multiple ways. Arkam is espousing a very specific view that clashes with statements by nintendo execs - under some interpretations anyway. It's easy to pick one specific interpretation of a single quote and run with it. Just keep that in mind.
cyberheater
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Miyamoto is talking about final hardware spec isn't going to be dramatically more powerful then PS360. Arkam is talking about older dev kit not being quite up to speed with current hardware. How hard is this for you to understand.
Fourth Storm
Member
I really wish we could move away from the "x times more powerful" comparisons. They are so subjective and non-specific that they're damn near useless and only serve to lower the level of discussion.
Smiles and Cries
Member
this is an unexpected source for news did an embargo just lift?
Seriously man just stop it. That's one of the most amazingly tenuous attempts at trying to make two entirely different comments seem "consistent".
"It won't exceed performance dramatically" leaves a broad level of performance possibilities, the only thing it tells us really is that it'll be more powerful and that it won't be the typical 10x leap we often see from console generation to console generation. I mean Wii was twice as powerful as GC overall but I doubt anyone would say its dramatically more powerful.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
here, let me re-quote this for you
That's why, I asked. I didn't straight up say he was. There's a difference.
You're probably right, Sakurai is a workaholic and released the first trailer to Smash Bros Brawl just 7 months into development, starting from October 2005 to May 2006. However, Smash Bros 4 is scheduled for 2 platforms so they'll be working on it simultaneously so the wait will be longer and the team size will likely exceed 100 staff members. Brawl took around 17-18 months to develop by the way.
Sakurai's past comments on Melee's development:
"On a personal level, Melee had an extremely grueling development cycle.Some of my other games did, too, but Melee sticks out far ahead of the pack in my mind. I worked on that game for 13 months straight, after all, without a single Sunday or holiday off that whole time. During parts of it, I was living a really destructive lifestyle -- I'd work for over 40 hours in a row, then go back home to sleep for four."
"It was the biggest project I had ever led up to that point -- the first game of mine on disc-based media, the first that used an orchestra for music, the first with 'real' polygon graphics. My staff was raring to go, and we plunged in full-tilt from the start. I pushed myself beyond any limit I could think of because I doubted I'd ever have this sheer amount of work in my hands ever again."
"Melee is the sharpest game in the series. It's pretty speedy all around and asks a lot of your coordination skills. Fans of the first Smash Bros. got into it quickly, and it just felt really good to play."
"I had created Smash Bros. to be my response to how hardcore-exclusive the fighting game genre had become over the years. But why did I target it so squarely toward people well-versed in videogames, then? That's why I tried to aim for more of a happy medium with Brawl's play balance. There are three Smash Bros. games out now, but even if I ever had a chance at another one, I doubt we'll ever see one that's as geared toward hardcore gamers as Melee was. Melee fans who played deep into the game without any problems might have trouble understanding this, but Melee was just too difficult."
"If we want new people from this generation of gamers to come in, then we need it accessible, simple, and playable by anyone. You can't let yourself get preoccupied with nothing but gameplay and balance details. That's where the core of the Smash Bros. concept lies, not on doggedly keeping the game the way it was before."
Yup, you bet. It's lined with platinum, too.
And yeah, it makes sense for them to spill some beans at GDC considering the importance of the event. I honestly doubt we're getting anything tomorrow - but maybe some nice 3DS details? Any official Nintendo news is exciting news.
mugurumakensei
Member
no. Im making no claims of power. Im saying dramatic means a noticeable gap. You're not going to notice graphics and such being too much better at 2x other than some slightly higher res textures and better framerate.
You hardly asked a normal question though did you, it was heavily insinuated that he was making that claim. I mean its not as if you'd walk up to someone on the street and say "Are you seriously trying to tell me its 2PM, really?.."
This thread is so crazy I'm starting to argue with people about question asking, right I'm out of here
bgassassin
Member
It's pretty easy actually as there are varying reasons why that may have happened.
What are your current thoughts regarding RAM? Will they stick with GDDR3? The 256bit bus in those stock cards seems unlikely, which in the past, we have taken to indicate that GDDR5 on a 128bit or 96bit bus was a possibility. Btw, according to Wiki, the 4830 also has a 256bit bus. However, I am thinking now that they may have used the wider bus to ballpark the effect the eDRAM would have in the final kits.
Also, since the RAM was described as slow (though I'm with you in that it was likely dowclocked for the dev kits along w/ the GPU core itself), and we talked about synching clocks a few pages back, just for the hell of it, lemme pull some clocks out of my ass and take another stab at the specs.
CPU: 3.6Ghz Tri Core PPC (OoOE, 2-way SMT, 3 MB L2 cache)
GPU: 600 Mhz (640:32:16 core config. They may have been aiming for 800 SPUs, but I think that would run too hot even at 32 nm)
Memory: 1.5 GB of 900Mhz(x2, so 1800) GDDR3 on a (96 or 196?) bit bus.
eDRAM: 32 Megabytes on a daughter die of the GPU.
And before I get jumped on, I know they're only specs and don't matter as much as other things (software and services), but it's been fun in these threads. It's like unraveling a mystery. Thanks Nintendo. You've given us a new game to play by doing absolutely nothing.
With the second post, it's something that has continued to keep me from locking in on 640 ALUs. If that were the target amount, then why not just go with a 4770 as that would have been much cooler for the dev kit?
With the former post, those could very well resemble the final clock speeds. What I see them possibly doing is most likely having GDDR5 on a 96-bit bus if it's 1.5GB. Also while I acknowledged in a previous about possibly simulating the eDRAM, I think it's more likely they needed it to support a large amount of memory in dev kit. And I wouldn't rule out 800 ALUs as the 5770/6770 card had a draw of 108w at 40nm and 850Mhz. Wii U's GPU would be both on a smaller process and clocked lower.
Great post...even though I didn't understand a lot of it. XD
But I would like to say, in regards to the direction this thread has taken in the last few pages, that I don't think it's wrong to talk about the less-than-savory bits of rumor and speculation we get on Wii U. It seems that, sometimes, we have no problem spending pages upon pages fapping to the good news/rumors we get about Wii U; but whenever we get wind of something less-than-awesome we're expected to just shut up, stop getting "emotional", and ignore it...when in reality it's just as valid speculation as anything else. I mean, this is the Wii U Speculation thread, not the "Wii U Fan |OT| of don't post if you're not kissing Nintendo's boots".
I think the possible outcomes of Nintendo releasing a console that isn't more powerful than PS360 is a valid point of discussion, especially now that we have someone who's been vetted by mods claiming that might be the case in some respects.
The problem as I see it occurs when people allow their emotional attachments to take hold, and things start getting borderline disrespectful.
--Flaming Arkam should never have happened.
--People getting upset and calling other posters graphics whores because they express concern over Wii U being underpowered should probably not have happened, either.
Lets just sit back, enjoy the thread, and speculate over the news/rumors as we get them...good or bad.
As for me, I respect Arkam sharing with us. For better or worse, he did give us something fresh to talk about...
EDIT: I hope this doesn't come off as me backseat-modding. Really not my intention...
Exactly. I got a kick out of everything that happened. Take the good with the bad and see how it all measures out till we get the final info.
It was already pointed out by Lonely1 and some others. Since I'm not a fan of "x times more powerful" I'll look at it simply like this. If we are expecting PS4 and Xbox 3 to dramatically outperform PS360, then Wii U would have to be on par with PS4 and Xbox 3. We know that's not the case so in turn it's not going to dramatically outperform PS360. As for your edit, you're doing exactly what I don't understand that I mentioned in my other post.
Nice find. Nintendo establishing that early on can really help them get a good jump on the other two consoles before they come out.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
How did you afford such a wonderful carpet? I want.
If we don't get details about the Wii U at GDC I'll be shocked and appalled to say the least.
Well I see where you're coming from..so, my badYou hardly asked a normal question though did you, it was heavily insinuated that he was making that claim. I mean its not as if you'd walk up to someone on the street and say "Are you seriously trying to tell me its 2PM, really?.."
This thread is so crazy I'm starting to argue with people about question asking, right I'm out of here
No I'm not trying to tell you its 2PM, its 3PM (;
Epic recent comments on the Samaritan demo has only solidified that kind of talk.
bgassassin
Member
Epic recent comments on the Samaritan demo has only solidified that kind of talk.
Haha. Well to their credit they at least gave a unit of measurement to work with though I still don't believe their assessment was totally correct due to AMD and nVidia's differences.
Yep, in fact, I'll ban bet I'm that confident there'll be info: Wii U details and some kind of game announcement.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
I would join you in the cause, but, I already have two ban bets going on..lol
This one's a risk taker.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
The game announcement is the risky part, wiiU details I figure are almost definite.
Game announcement? Bold prediction, my friend.
tkscz
Member
I hope that's a temp band, because I honestly don't see that happening. I think GDC will be more about the 3DS than anything and only sales data and charts. No announcements until E3 (Yes, I am aware Reggie said they're be more info on the WiiU before E3, but I doubt they will actually do it).
cyberheater
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I think you should redraw that bet. Not worth the risk. You'd miss this place.
Smiles and Cries
Member
meh reggie talk WiiU at 9am tomorrow no big risk
tkscz
Member
Ok we'll give you that, but I even doubt that.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Why did you do this Ubermatik?
Because he loves us, and wants to make this thread exciting.
cyberheater
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I hope he doesn't. That could make the WiiU irresistible to me. 3D Mario with Xbox360 quality graphics on my projector. Lush.
Father_Brain
Banned
Let me repeat myself:
There is no Iwata keynote at GDC. There is no known Nintendo press event at GDC. There is no reason right now to think that any substantive Wii U news will emerge from GDC, other than wishful thinking.
There is no Iwata keynote at GDC. There is no known Nintendo press event at GDC. There is no reason right now to think that any substantive Wii U news will emerge from GDC, other than wishful thinking.
Fourth Storm
Member
On a completely different note, I've got a strong feeling that Wii U will launch with a 3D Donkey Kong title from EAD Tokyo 1. The timing is right both for another DK game (DKCR being released in 2010) and for EAD Tokyo 1 to be finishing up a major project since the release of SMG. Likewise, DK appeals to both casuals and hardcore, and is second only to Mario in Nintendo history and fame.
We haven't seen a stab at 3D DK since Donkey Kong 64, which I never beat, because it got boring. It is high time DK got the Super Mario Galaxy treatment, and I cannot be the only one to realize this obvious fact. I expect the levels to be focused, like in Super Mario Galaxy, but with more lush environments to show off the Wii U's graphical abilities.
Anyway, that's my best guess as of now. Considering alot of the Jungle Beat and Super Mario Galaxy 1 guys are still on that team (those who didn't join Koizumi in forming EAD Tokyo 2, i.e. "The 3D Mario Team"), I don't think it's too far out there.
We haven't seen a stab at 3D DK since Donkey Kong 64, which I never beat, because it got boring. It is high time DK got the Super Mario Galaxy treatment, and I cannot be the only one to realize this obvious fact. I expect the levels to be focused, like in Super Mario Galaxy, but with more lush environments to show off the Wii U's graphical abilities.
Anyway, that's my best guess as of now. Considering alot of the Jungle Beat and Super Mario Galaxy 1 guys are still on that team (those who didn't join Koizumi in forming EAD Tokyo 2, i.e. "The 3D Mario Team"), I don't think it's too far out there.
I'd happily suffer for your entertainment!
Totally worth it. Something will slip from Reggie or others.
Totally worth it. Something will slip from Reggie or others.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Yeah. And anyway, if there's a worse way to compare systems than with integer multipliers, it's with imprecise adjectives. How many pages could this thread squeeze from someone referring to the Wii U's capabilities as "peachy"?
Shin Johnpv
Member
Hopefully you'll make good use of your time off.
I don't think there's going to be any solid new info about Wii-U at GDC. I think we're just going to have to wait till E3.
Only big thing I expect from GDC is going to be a Zelda 3DS trailer or announcement.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
and like I said, people say this EVERY time, guyss guysss it's just a investors meeting FOR INVESTORSSS, nothing is gonna be said. Then we get thursdayton. It's GDC. It's a gaming focused media event, and a huge one at that. You don't need to be present to drop some news. Just like E3, not all companies have pressers but they still announce things.
You tell 'em Pyro.
Fourth Storm
Member
As if there's any chance of it not happening? Not at launch, but Koizumi has confirmed his team is handling it.
Ban bets on the table. We've come to playing the GAF version of Russian Roulette.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
Like I've speculated before: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35066014&postcount=6705
There are just too many gilded opportunities here for Nintendo to not bring new Wii U details to the table.
cyberheater
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LOL.
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