Pulse beams were used pretty inconsistenly in TOS
The phasers in Wrath of Khan were pulses for instance
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Star Trek: Discovery |OT| To Boldly Stream Where No One Has Streamed Before
- Thread starter berzeli
- Start date
Pulse beams were used pretty inconsistenly in TOS
The phasers in Wrath of Khan were pulses for instance
Wait, the phasers in Wrath of Khan are definitely beams. Sometimes they are fired in a pulsing fashion but they don't produce energy packets or have a velocity like phaser cannons do.
Nooope. The current era technology is now "whatever we can do"
And it's fine. That's what they would've done in TOS if they could. They were using the best they had with what they got. Keeping the old 60's set look consistent never made sense to me.
At least tricorders are still around!
Americans don't wait for Europeans for any other show with a set time, why should this show be different?
You don't know why the lens flare and lighting would make it look like JJ trek? The Klingons too look closer to JJ Klingons than what we know, there's also the weird angle camera shots with movements.
It's not that it's bad (well lens flare is bad), or that pew pew phasers didn't exist in the prior shows. It's the lack of familiar things seen in the prior shows and the presence of stuff seen in JJ movies or stuff closer to JJ movies than prior shows that's making people say it looks like JJ Trek.
https://youtu.be/WCpYqWAIwFA?t=126
Well, it's sort of in between I guess. But there's definitely distinct energy packets
Because that's how it was the Abrams movies.
Official rule is once it's aired, it's fair game and spoiler tags should only be used for the next episode promo.
Meus Renaissance
Member
The pew-pew is more dramatic. That's why they chose it.
hobblygobbly
Member
I liked it, but some of my nitpicks:
1.
2.
3.
4.
One thing I was surprised by was that I didn't think the new concept for the Klingons would be good based on previous imagery/previews but I quite like it, although I still prefer the iconic Klingon look that the 90s shows had, I would have preferred if they touched that look up to fit the aesthetic of this show but nonetheless I like it.
Also I think the CGI and prop pieces are done really well, but again, the sets need a lot more lighting, however the preview for the rest of the season does look better in this regard but they're just little snapshots.
I'm definitely in for the rest of the season, it's much better than I expected. However I still don't like the fact that this show is during the timeline it is in, and I don't like that it's going to be a show at least at first with a war main plot. I would have much preferred a post-DS9 show that is serialised and actually deals with post-war Dominion situation and the area to explore conflict with the Romulan empire instead since they emerge at end of the Dominion war being the main rival to the Federation, although allies for the war, it could have been a classic Cold War example with the Soviet Union and the U.S with them instead, explore issues with a battered Cardassian empire and what role they may play in the Federation, the Klingon empire that got new leadership to reform the empire after DS9, while still maintain science/exploration/adventure theme episodes. Post DS9 left so much opportunity to carry the show further it still annoys me that they decided to do a show just before TOS, it is a franchise that does not need prequels.
1.
Burnham's tribunal... why is it setup aesthetically like a Cardassian tribunal/court, I found that really bizarre.
I generally don't like the mutiny and possible redemption plot line, I don't think that was necessary for the show, but it's not a big deal.
Some parts of the scenes are too dark in terms of lighting, needs more light.
Need more subtlety with the camera angles, the Dutch angle works fine in space, not so much all the time in interiors.
One thing I was surprised by was that I didn't think the new concept for the Klingons would be good based on previous imagery/previews but I quite like it, although I still prefer the iconic Klingon look that the 90s shows had, I would have preferred if they touched that look up to fit the aesthetic of this show but nonetheless I like it.
Also I think the CGI and prop pieces are done really well, but again, the sets need a lot more lighting, however the preview for the rest of the season does look better in this regard but they're just little snapshots.
I'm definitely in for the rest of the season, it's much better than I expected. However I still don't like the fact that this show is during the timeline it is in, and I don't like that it's going to be a show at least at first with a war main plot. I would have much preferred a post-DS9 show that is serialised and actually deals with post-war Dominion situation and the area to explore conflict with the Romulan empire instead since they emerge at end of the Dominion war being the main rival to the Federation, although allies for the war, it could have been a classic Cold War example with the Soviet Union and the U.S with them instead, explore issues with a battered Cardassian empire and what role they may play in the Federation, the Klingon empire that got new leadership to reform the empire after DS9, while still maintain science/exploration/adventure theme episodes. Post DS9 left so much opportunity to carry the show further it still annoys me that they decided to do a show just before TOS, it is a franchise that does not need prequels.
I donno man, it's not just Europeans but the entire world that gets it at the same time. It's just that Americans get it 10-12 hours early, so unless you want to tell everyone non American to piss off for a while I'd appreciate some spoiler tags atleast for he first 24 hours. It's not that much to ask for a weekly show.
paplikaplik
Member
I feel like Ive missed something here, because Burnham didnt actually start the war, but theyre making it seem like everyone thinks she did? Are they conflating her mutiny with the start of the war or something?
The two dont seem to go together and in the previews for upcoming episodes it looks like even she believes shes responsible.
TKuvma set this trap to start a fight. That part of it Is known to us, and not to most of the other characters, but after his acceptance of a cease-fire and opening of talks, then immediately ramming and destroying the Admirals ship, everyone in the Federation would have to know that this guy wasnt exactly an honest broker.
Youd think that in a supposedly enlightened and intelligent Federation, theyd figure this out and see Burnhams mutiny as a separate event from the Klingon attack, but that doesnt seem to be the case.
The two dont seem to go together and in the previews for upcoming episodes it looks like even she believes shes responsible.
TKuvma set this trap to start a fight. That part of it Is known to us, and not to most of the other characters, but after his acceptance of a cease-fire and opening of talks, then immediately ramming and destroying the Admirals ship, everyone in the Federation would have to know that this guy wasnt exactly an honest broker.
Youd think that in a supposedly enlightened and intelligent Federation, theyd figure this out and see Burnhams mutiny as a separate event from the Klingon attack, but that doesnt seem to be the case.
Stallion Dan
Member
STD fires beams, but short bursts that connect to nothing between firing and hitting, only JJ and WoK do that, it clear what STD is copying.
Defiant's cannons are not beams. It not the same.
lastplayed
Member
Exactly. I'd rather it look like the future of 2017 than carry on the future of the 1960s.
Why aren't people complaining about the lack of computers spitting out paper like in TOS?
Wow, I had a Berenstein moment.
You're right, those are clearly cannon-style shots even though the Enterprise has beam phasers. Everything is just inconsistent and dumb.
I think it's less that she didn't start a war and more that she failed to stop it by deliberately choosing to kill T'Kuvma in a moment of rage. And that is on her because stunning him was within her capability.
I think the scenario is written well enough that I'm convinced by her actions coming from a very human place, and it's definitely not as simple as 'she just cray', but she definitely has some culpability in this war.
I would just like to state, for the record as a non-American, that I am fine with you guys discussing this show after it airs, as is normal for all TV threads.
Thing is the 90s show already had holographic communication. People aren't saying the continuity is broken because it wasn't in previous show but are saying that it was broken because it was considered advanced in a show that's canonically set more than a century after this show.
You can keep a modern iteration of a series look futuristic even from 2017's perspective while still maintaining continuity even if the original is decades old. For example look at Star Wars, Alien Covenant (which went retro futuristic after Prometheus), or the upcoming Bladerunner 2049 from what we've seen of it. The vision of future technology they showed in TNG/Voyager era Trek is not that outdated even 20 years later. No one will say The Force Awakens or Rogue One looks dates but it still uses big buttons for computers and knobs for switches like the original films.
I don't expect full continuity as TOS was limited by 60s technology and budget, and it looked like shit. Plus we have another template for even older Trek technology other than TOS in the form of Enterprise.
There is a right balance to be found and imo Discovery missed that balance.
As a Trek fan that grew up with the franchise going so far as to buy all the technical encyclopedias as a kids and memorizing all the specs of every starship, I enjoyed the first two episodes a lot. I know a lot of other Trek fans are upset with the inconsistencies with technology, but I'm really glad the showrunners are not being slaves to lore especially since much of that really amounts to limitations of the budget and technology at the time. There's a balance to be made between perfect continuity like some Trek fans want and not giving a shit at all like the JJ Abrams films.
I can also see why they chose to redesign the Klingons, since this look is pretty much non-threatening at this point:
They have been too humanized after TNG and DS9 to the point where they are practically cuddly. I see why the story they want to tell wouldn't work with that design. That being said, I'm not sure I'm 100% on board with the new ones either as I think they are a bit overdesigned, but I guess I'll reserve judgement until a few more episodes have passed.
This is a good point. They certainly look more alien now-- that's probably really effective.
The scene where
the armored dude appears on the beacon at the beginning
No.
Standard TV thread rules, once it airs you're free to talk about it.
I thought it was so obvious that it didn't need explaining. But maybe I should put something in the OT or something.
JonnyDBrit
Member
The holograms are there because they are way more interesting in a cinematic sense. No one wants to shoot someone talking to a floating head on a monitor; there's just not many ways to make that interesting at all.
Also while I think phaser beams are just as cool as pulse cannons, when they miss they really throw me out of my immersion. Like, how is your 24th century targetting system unable to track and draw a direct line between two massive ships? Technically pulse cannon systems have the same issue, but it's less dumb looking I guess.
Also while I think phaser beams are just as cool as pulse cannons, when they miss they really throw me out of my immersion. Like, how is your 24th century targetting system unable to track and draw a direct line between two massive ships? Technically pulse cannon systems have the same issue, but it's less dumb looking I guess.
Just watched both episodes. My feelings are mixed. It got more engaging as it went along. So, a few things:
- The reason it got more engaging as it went along is that the quippy raport dialogue fell of significantly as the situation got more serious. The dialogue in the first 20 minutes or so of episode 1 is pretty much atrocious.
- This isn't helped by the fact Michelle Yeoh couldn't pull it off at all - even native english speaking actors have their work cut out for them trying to make dialogue like that work, I don't know why shows just drop foreign actors into these characters and have them talk like they grew up internalising everything Joss Whedon's ever written.
- Michael is reasonably interesting. The actress is a liiittle wobbly but she mostly pulled it off. I didn't mind the tall alien science officer either - he's a complete Star Trek archetype but they didn't over do it so that he became annoying, which this character almost always is.
- It's corny, but Star Trek has never not been corny. It's just that this is corny in a way that doesn't feel original, it is corny because it's derivative. Star Trek's always been this awkward, stilted kind of thing and this still is but it's trying really hard not to be and I laughed at a few moments that were supposed to be dramatic or exciting.
- My interest is about exactly where it was before the show started. I'm glad Michelle Yeoh's character won't be the main captain, she can't pull it off, although she was 'fine'. Curious to see what the crew of the Discovery itself will be like. I'm not expecting much out of the writing at this point but who knows, it could surprise me.
- I don't know why we need to do Klingons again, but they had a good try at making them interesting and just about got there, for as good as it does. I'm kind of bummed the uh, T'Kulva? guy died because he was providing some nuance to the Klingon side. Hopefully, if the Klingons are going to be a huge part of the season, more actual Klingon characters are introduced.
- Is there anything on why she is called Michael? Why a human male name, and not either a human female/unisex name or even a Vulcan name? It doesn't really matter, but it's a weird choice in a show that hasn't made any other weird choices so far.
- Did not like the constant tilted angles. They could cool it with that, it makes it hard to get a sense of what's going on. I don't know if the continuity actually was on the sloppy side or if the angles were throwing me off, but it felt messy.
- The reason it got more engaging as it went along is that the quippy raport dialogue fell of significantly as the situation got more serious. The dialogue in the first 20 minutes or so of episode 1 is pretty much atrocious.
- This isn't helped by the fact Michelle Yeoh couldn't pull it off at all - even native english speaking actors have their work cut out for them trying to make dialogue like that work, I don't know why shows just drop foreign actors into these characters and have them talk like they grew up internalising everything Joss Whedon's ever written.
- Michael is reasonably interesting. The actress is a liiittle wobbly but she mostly pulled it off. I didn't mind the tall alien science officer either - he's a complete Star Trek archetype but they didn't over do it so that he became annoying, which this character almost always is.
- It's corny, but Star Trek has never not been corny. It's just that this is corny in a way that doesn't feel original, it is corny because it's derivative. Star Trek's always been this awkward, stilted kind of thing and this still is but it's trying really hard not to be and I laughed at a few moments that were supposed to be dramatic or exciting.
- My interest is about exactly where it was before the show started. I'm glad Michelle Yeoh's character won't be the main captain, she can't pull it off, although she was 'fine'. Curious to see what the crew of the Discovery itself will be like. I'm not expecting much out of the writing at this point but who knows, it could surprise me.
- I don't know why we need to do Klingons again, but they had a good try at making them interesting and just about got there, for as good as it does. I'm kind of bummed the uh, T'Kulva? guy died because he was providing some nuance to the Klingon side. Hopefully, if the Klingons are going to be a huge part of the season, more actual Klingon characters are introduced.
- Is there anything on why she is called Michael? Why a human male name, and not either a human female/unisex name or even a Vulcan name? It doesn't really matter, but it's a weird choice in a show that hasn't made any other weird choices so far.
- Did not like the constant tilted angles. They could cool it with that, it makes it hard to get a sense of what's going on. I don't know if the continuity actually was on the sloppy side or if the angles were throwing me off, but it felt messy.
| Praxis |
Banned
Life long Trek fan here and one that didn't like the recent films. Loving this so far, even though it doesn't remain faithful to the original TV universe and has picked up some dirty habits from the modern films.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Didnt the Defiant have a holographic comms system originally? It just looked like a less computer generated effect.
Modern naval vessels still use big old guns first invented more than a century ago despite the advent of highly advanced guidance missiles. There's no reason to assume that because it's old Starfleet would ditch a certain type of weapon.
Michael was court-marshalled for striking a superior officer, insubordination and attempted mutiny. It doesn't matter the motives, she broke Starfleet regulations.
Simple....the other ship is using 24th century evasive manoeuvres!
I'm gonna post stuff as it airs on Space 30-minutes before CBSAA releases the episode.
That's what I meant when I said that the 90s show already had it but it was considered advanced for that time period.Didnt the Defiant have a holographic comms system originally? It just looked like a less computer generated effect.
paplikaplik
Member
Ah, youre right. I missed that she actually killed the guy instead of stunning him per the plan, which might have defused the situation or stopped the war in its tracks, so she did have some culpability for the war. Thanks!
I am still not sure if she killed him by mistake while just trying to bash him. If she had just knocked him out it still might've ended up the same way because she got attacked first.
T'Kuvma seems like he had his mind made up and was going to lay out his plans he same way regardless.
EvilRedEye
Member
Didnt the Defiant have a holographic comms system originally? It just looked like a less computer generated effect.
They were testing the technology in the DS9 era. Also, ships didn't have holo-emitters installed throughout the vessel until the USS Prometheus was introduced mid-way through Voyager's run.
I'm gonna let it go, and I was never talking about anyone posting on this forum or in this thread, but the fact that people can be huge Star Trek nerds and still be sexist or racist always depressed me like few other things could.
Like, how do you love something so much and miss the whole point of the whole thing you love? Does your brain just turn off when they're not shooting people? Does your bias automatically prevent you from taking anything they're saying about inclusiveness and equality in the neato space show seriously?
How can anyone think "social justice" and "Star Trek" aren't 100% Goddamn synonymous? Star Trek is social justice's ENDGAME.
Though I guess in some of the past series, a lot of people only took it seriously as long as as minorities were side characters and not the protagonists. They think we can have a future where everyone's technically equal but everything still revolves around people of their race and gender.
I don't know, it just bums me out!
Like, how do you love something so much and miss the whole point of the whole thing you love? Does your brain just turn off when they're not shooting people? Does your bias automatically prevent you from taking anything they're saying about inclusiveness and equality in the neato space show seriously?
How can anyone think "social justice" and "Star Trek" aren't 100% Goddamn synonymous? Star Trek is social justice's ENDGAME.
Though I guess in some of the past series, a lot of people only took it seriously as long as as minorities were side characters and not the protagonists. They think we can have a future where everyone's technically equal but everything still revolves around people of their race and gender.
I don't know, it just bums me out!
whyamihere
Banned
If she had gotten him back and captured him, it would've been different. Instead, he became a rallying cry for the Klingons (or so we assume, given what she said in 102).
Oh we're talking about T'Kuvma, for some reason I thought we were talking about that first dude she killed at the start. yep definitely that's on her, especially after the fact that it was her who suggested not to make a martyr out of him. For a Vulcan trained humans she sure was emotionally fragile as fuck, but I guess the Klingons are her bane.
radios shipping overview
Member
Right there with you. So fucking ecstatic that Trek is back and it's GOOD!
I really am hoping that where ever the story goes it involves Michael getting her ranks back as time goes on. She should have none now but I don't want her just being someone at anyone's beck and call. She's got to earn them and the trust of those on the Discovery. I just hope that's an element that is allowed to happen. Eventually if this show is successful I would like to see her with her own command at some point after a lot of hard work.
whyamihere
Banned
The first guy was an honest mistake I don't think anyone could actually blame her for.
JonnyDBrit
Member
There's enough episodes that are about pure space politics, combined with the military perspective that is the default for the franchise, that it's not that hard to see how exactly people like that got into the franchise. Particularly with DS9's willingness to dabble in moral ambiguity - rather than question as the show did however, and recognise the dangers in that moral ambiguity alongside the practical benefits, they see it as absolutely the correct MO for life in the far future.
Yeah, I hope they don't introduce too many crazy things out of nowhere like resurrection super blood and all that. That's one of the thing's I'm worried about.
Captain Skeleton
Member
Exactly, it seems she never really got over her trauma at the hands of the Klingons, the Vulcans probably just taught her to suppress them, which isn't great, so when they show up she cracks big time.
That's an Enterprise thing. T'Pol and Trip have it.
The clip in question depicts the Enterprise!
I loved it but the rewriting of both history and technology will slowly drive me crazy. Why not just say you're starting over? Argh. The Klingons look horrendous also. Why did they choose the JJ Klingon look and why did the JJ Klingons look so bad to begin with? What idiot looked at Worf, Martok et all and decided, "Yeah, this needs to look shittier for that true gritty look".
Argh. Hopeful, but really, why bother say this is from the Prime universe (ugh) when you're just going to rewrite it all and follow up on most stuff from the JJ films (I'm aware there's some licensing fuckery going on, but in that case, again... why not just start over? Argh)?
Oh joy, the show's name will really get a kick to the teeth with that. "We would be out exploring shit but there's a war to win".
Argh. Hopeful, but really, why bother say this is from the Prime universe (ugh) when you're just going to rewrite it all and follow up on most stuff from the JJ films (I'm aware there's some licensing fuckery going on, but in that case, again... why not just start over? Argh)?
Oh joy, the show's name will really get a kick to the teeth with that. "We would be out exploring shit but there's a war to win".
Roddenberry must be turning in his grave due to Michael's insubordination and killing spree.
whyamihere
Banned
and then she went to jail...
SomedayTheFire
Member
This is pretty great damn. Love the opening sequence a lot. Never been too into Trek bar late night watching the odd episode but this is cool.