MisterFalcon
Member
China has had wars with Tibet, the UN in Korea, Vietnam, India, Taiwan and the Soviet Union. And they have an islamic insurgency themselves that is being suppressed quite brutally with methods Trump could not dream of.
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NY Mayor confirms explosion as 'terrorist attack'
- Thread starter CampbellzSoup
- Start date
China has had wars with Tibet, the UN in Korea, Vietnam, India, Taiwan and the Soviet Union. And they have an islamic insurgency themselves that is being suppressed quite brutally with methods Trump could not dream of.
Mohonky
Member
Who is this collective you are talking about?
You keep saying 'you' implying someone or some group but never actually saying who 'you' is?
JordanN
Banned
How do you stop someone from shoplifting from a store?
Fight back, make it hard for them to commit the crime in the first place like increasing security, survey suspects for any suspicious activity. That's the whole purpose of having an anti-terror unit.
Notice how these terrorists aren't just walking around with giant TNT crates in their hand and ready to blow up? They're already up against a society that's ready to pin them against the wall when they plan on striking.
Wow, So the US is as bad or worse than China for the past century. Think of China's reputation among western countries and now picture the US in the same light.
Can't? Fret not.
If you can, you should realize that you are perfectly conceivable of far greater war atrocities. You just need a reason because you need to maintain the hypocritical good image to keep the world order where you're at the top.
Regardless, the post I was responding was one deluded of the West's barbaric tendencies and it seems like NONE of you could contest otherwise. It's like a Christian guilty of pedophilia act yet continue convincing himself he will go to Heaven.
If I am Muslim or from Middle East, I will never be mistaken that the western nations could collectively be implicit to nuke the place down and not feel a shard of remorse for the destruction. And I'm not even one.
Mohonky
Member
Again, who are you talking about?
ItemCollector
Neo Member
Trump please add Bangladesh to the travel ban.
Bolivar687
Banned
There was similar feeling to the NYC terrorist attack on Halloween. It's concerning how quickly the media moves on to resume its partisanship.
Dude Abides
Banned
Be the change you want to see in the world.
Its a one day thing. Example: Police just found hidden 200 automatic Bullets near to a christmasmarket. It was news for like half a day here in Germany.
A Week before they had a huge razzia arresting people who also plant huge attacks on 3 markets as well. It is getting totally ignored.
Alx
Member
There's no reason to keep it on the headlines for long, when it's only a failed attack with no casualty. Like we never hear of all the attacks that were foiled by the police before they happen. The whole point of terrorism is to spread fear among the population, the more you talk about it the worse it gets.
A Link to the Past
Banned
And not long ago in our history, our country was dominated by Christian terrorists.
The problem with this analogue is that one side has a hatred for Nazis, and the other side has a hatred for radical Muslims, but that side treats radical Muslims as the norm and acts on that idea.
CampbellzSoup
Member
Rolling my eyes...when exactly was the last Christian terrorists attack??? Would you like a list of the radical Islam Terrorist attacks for this year in 2017..better yet this month?
Also There was a HUGE change inside the church and it is still transforming. A Change Islam needs too. Also since the 60s 70s they went 200 years back
Dude Abides
Banned
Our terrorists are better than their terrorists!
A Link to the Past
Banned
"November 29, 2015: A shooting at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado, left three dead and several injured, and a suspect Robert L. Dear was apprehended.[I 9][I 10][I 11] The suspect had previously acted against other clinics, and referred to himself as a "warrior for the babies" at his hearing.[I 12][I 13] Neighbors and former neighbors described the suspect as "reclusive",[I 10] and police from several states where the suspect resided described a history of run-ins dating from at least 1997.[I 11] As of December 2015, the trial of the suspect was open;[I 12] but, on May 11, 2016, the court declared the suspect incompetent to stand trial after a mental evaluation was completed.[I 14]"
"On August 5, 2012, a mass shooting took place at the gurdwara (Sikh temple) in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, where 40-year-old Wade Michael Page fatally shot six people and wounded four others."
"On Saturday, a 20-year-old man from Ohio allegedly rammed his car into a group of people gathered to protest a white nationalist rally, killing a 32-year old woman and injuring 19 others."
We also have the fact that we are witnessing a rise of terrorist groups that consider themselves Christian and the empowerment of the Ku Klux Klan after the GOP's win in 2016.
CampbellzSoup
Member
White terrorist groups are not Christian terrorists the examples you provided do not prove your case at all.
A Link to the Past
Banned
First one: "He claims to be a Christian and is extremely evangelistic, but does not follow the Bible in his actions. He says that as long as he believes he will be saved, he can do whatever he pleases. He is obsessed with the world coming to an end."
Yeah, the first one was not about being white, unless you think that anti-abortion is uniquely white. The only way you could come to that conclusion is if your goal was to distance Christianity from the killings.
Second one, a professor assessed that it was likely to be a Christianity-based shooting.
Third one, it was an anti-Jewish rally. Ignoring the Christian component here ignores the history of antisemitism.
Ultimately, it's really interesting to me, the justification and handwaving that occurs with respect to Christian terrorism. For example, Christian terrorism, if committed against another Christian, would likely have that defense made, despite Muslim terrorism being overwhelmingly committed against Muslims. We also cannot ignore how mainstream anti-LGBT sentiments are in our society. Ted Cruz attended a "Kill the Gays" rally, and he gave a platform to the person who operated said rally. Using that platform, the person called for the death penalty against gay people to the audience, which was met with applause. As someone who is gay, I absolutely am far more fearful of Christian violence than Muslim violence. It is not that Christians stopped committing violence against gay people, it is that the law started to take it more seriously.
Mister Apoc
Demigod of Troll Threads
Having legitimate criticisms about the religion of Islam does not make us sound like breitbart. Your simplistic thinking does thoughLmao this fucking thread reads almost like a Breitbart comment sectionGAF in 2018 gonna be a hilarious trainwreck.
A Link to the Past
Banned
True. If NeoGAF, for instance, treated Christianity in the same way - especially in the U.S. since violence by Christians against LGBT people etc. is far more common than violence by Muslims against LGBT people - then it wouldn't be like Breitbart.
But since we have people like Campbell who actually think that a man who shot up a Planned Parenthood location was not a Christian terrorist despite the fact that he was a devout Christian and believed that God would forgive his actions, then I am inclined to say that this site has gone in a certain direction.
Yeah, the failed London Tube bombing carried out by a child refugee earlier this year was quickly swept under the carpet, doubtless to avoid difficult questions being asked. It [Islamic terrorism] is becoming an everyday thing that is increasingly treated as if it is something that has always been a part of Western society.
I think it's sad that European Christmas markets will from now on always be surrounded by big concrete bollards to protect the public. The need for such barriers serve as a lingering reminder that we don't all "stand together" as many like to claim.
CampbellzSoup
Member
Again all of your examples are loose connections and a stretch; that a professor assessed...are you kidding me?
Mister Apoc
Demigod of Troll Threads
The whole but Christians are violent too is left wing whataboutism. The reality of the matter is that the vast majority of global terrorism is Islamic. Roughly 70 percents of the worlds terror acts are done by 4 Islamic groups. Christian Terrorism and violence is simply not on the same scale as Islamic violence today. Yes its true that Christian discrimination against LGBT people is wrong but compare the treatment of LGBT people in western Christian countries versus Islamic sharia countries and you will see that the West has made much more strive. We really need to have a national discussion on violence in Islam and we cant do that if the left keeps up making excuses for these atrocities
A Link to the Past
Banned
The first one literally cannot have happened without religion, because the man actively said that he was motivated to do it because he believed God would forgive him.
On that note, I guess I'd ask you to show me evidence that the shooting of the Sikh temple was due to the person's skin color.
Not whataboutism. It is debunking the notion that people who criticize Islam in response to these attacks are objective critics of religious violence, because no serious discussion of Ted Cruz as a Christian terrorist occurred. It demonstrates a willingness to criticize Islam and absolve Christianity whenever such situations occur. I mean, Campbell here is personally arguing that a man who killed because God would forgive him wasn't killing for religious reasons.
Gay people can be killed in Middle Eastern countries with impunity because the political climate allows for it. We don't see violence in the U.S. to that extent because such actions are taken more seriously (a fact that is not an old one in this country).
BANGS
Banned
source?
CampbellzSoup
Member
A professor must have assessed it.
JordanN
Banned
I can't confirm her statement, however, I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't a lot of unreported violence/harassment against LGBT by Christian.
Like how about LGBT who come out to their parents? There's documented proof Christians wildly find other means to be violent without the need of stoning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1df_i26wh-w
And again, these are the ones lucky enough to be recorded in the act.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Simple observation.
1. Muslims in the U.S. are more accepting of same-sex relations, with 52% in favor of it. Contrast that with Evangelicals, where it's 37% in favor.
2. Population-wise, such a thing is evident by likelihood.
3. Looking up examples of hate crimes against LGBT people, most of them were perpetrated by non-Muslims.
4. The advocating of anti-LGBT violence is far more common and mainstream by Christians than by Muslims. To call back to my previous example, Ted Cruz vicariously called for the death of all gay people in the United States in the context of religion.
5. Muslim domestic terrorists are relatively rare, whereas right-wing terrorists are significantly more representative among this.
Pretty much, Christians being more common perpetrators of anti-LGBT violence than Muslims in the U.S. is as common sense as it is that Muslims are more common perpetrators of anti-LGBT violence in Middle Eastern countries than Christians. Inevitably, given their majority status, they are going to commit more violence against such a group unless there's an influencing factor causing this to change.
CampbellzSoup
Member
I guess were forgetting the pulse night club, those damn Christian terororists!
Mister Apoc
Demigod of Troll Threads
I can perfectly accept that Christian terrorism is real
do you also accept that Islamic terrorism is
1. done at a much higher scale than Christian terrorism
2. Is a much bigger threat that needs more immediate attention?
do you agree with those 2 points
A Link to the Past
Banned
I have never said that Muslims have never committed such crimes. Displaying an example of anti-LGBT violence by Muslims doesn't contradict the point that anti-LGBT hate crimes are typically perpetrated by Christians in the U.S. more than any other faith.
Speaking of the Pulse night club shooting, remember the Christian pastor who said that he wished more died in the Pulse shooting and wished that the government would commit genocide against gay people?
When they're not the ones committing the crimes, Christians still gotta root for the ones that are. :v
In the U.S.? No to both. On a worldwide scale? Yes, though I object to attempts to make it a zero-sum game. Addressing Muslim terrorism isn't thwarted by acknowledging the home-grown Christian terrorists in the U.S. We are already very attentive on Islamic terrorism, to the extent that many a Muslim-American is facing unjust treatment. I guess I would ask how we address it further without going full-on shitty America and rounding up Muslim-Americans like we did with Japanese-Americans. At least in the U.S., we already do pretty okay dealing with Islamic terrorists.
guggnichso
Banned
Haha, this site really went to shit. What a thread.
Mister Apoc
Demigod of Troll Threads
In the U.S as well on a per capita basis
BANGS
Banned
So you cannot take percentages into account with all your vast data? Oh that's right... it's all bullshit...
Please stop the bullshit...
A Link to the Past
Banned
I am taking percentages. There are significantly more Christians in the US than there are Muslims, so the appropriate assumption is that Christians are also more representative of perpetrators of hate crimes, unless there are actually factors that would suggest otherwise. Muslims are more accepting of gay people than certain sects of Christianity. Anti-LGBT violence as a political platform by Christians is more mainstream than it is for Muslims. There is no data that would tell us that Muslims commit more anti-LGBT hate crimes in the US.
And to make my point, can you provide me with the data showing how many anti-LGBT attacks by Muslims occur in, say, Syria?
Bolivar687
Banned
Just a friendly reminder that it's entirely feasible to exculpate Islam without condemning Christianity.
CampbellzSoup
Member
What the fuck are you even talking about anymore????
Sarkozix le Gaulois
Member
Wow, holy shit.
You dont know a lot of muslims, do you ?
Even moderates don't like gays. Which makes sense, since homosexuality is one of the worst sin in Islam.
Also the New testament offers redemption for homosexuals, while the Koran, as far as I know, does not.
It is certainly not the case in the world but in the US I think its probably right. I heard something like that as well. But As I said before they a role Muslims. And reason for this is also the very strict immigration laws in the US.
Of course there are also poeple like Linda Sarasour but I do not think it is the norm.
Sarkozix le Gaulois
Member
I guess you're right. To be fair I dont know any US muslim so it might be true.
A Link to the Past
Banned
In the US, 52% of Muslims support same-sex marriage. I suspect that you don't know a lot of Muslims, because my inclination is that you formed an opinion of moderate Muslims based on what you read, not who you interacted with. I know several LGBT Muslims and Muslims who are supportive of LGBT people and causes, and in fact the group had the most growth in support of any religious group in the last decade.
tl;dr There's no data to suggest that a minority group in the US are more prevalent among perpetrators of anti-LGBT hate crimes than Christians, thus the most likely conclusion is that the majority group is.
It's not complicated.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Namely that in the US, the risk of terrorism by Christians is greater than that of terrorism by Muslims.
Airola
Member
I think to say something like that you should take into account the amount of prevented attacks and the overall use of police resources to prevent terrorism.
I mean, it could be so that the other group has less succesfull attacks than the other but the police has to use their resources much more on the former group than the latter because there are more planning of attacks and more attempted attacks.
I have no data to prove anything about that in any direction and I'm not sure if data for that even exists. But at least in Finland the situation is this:
"The most significant terrorist threat in Finland is still posed by individual actors or small groups motivated by radical Islamist propaganda or terrorist organisations encouraging them."
"The Finnish Security Intelligence Service (Supo) has around 350 counterterrorism target individuals."
http://www.supo.fi/counterterrorism/terrorism_threat_assessment
That was written before the first islamic terrorist attack happened in Finland last August.
And note that the link is the official website of The Finnish Security Intelligence Service. It's not any sort of right wing propaganda.
It would be interesting to know how much the US Intelligence is preventing or investigating Islamic terror plots versus preventing or investigating Christian terror plots. How many "counterterrorism target individuals" they have who are Christians versus who are Muslims. Or of any other religions or groups. Just because the attacks might not happen that often doesn't yet mean there isn't danger of that. It could very well be that there are more people who are planning attacks but the US Intelligence are doing their job well enough to stop most of the people before anything happens.
CampbellzSoup
Member
Youre literally in a different fucking reality, Ill see you again when he next inevitable one happens and you can bring up some more assessments from professors.
A Link to the Past
Banned
We do actually have quite a decent level of intel groups monitoring sovereign citizens, white nationalist groups, and Christian extremist groups in the FBI.
Or I can bring up Alexander Bissonnette *shrugs*
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