• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods

Status
Not open for further replies.
man fuck this. first its dlc shit, then its cutting stuff off the discs to charge as dlc, then awful online passes, season passes, pre order bullshit and now we have to start paying for FUCKING MODS?!?!?!?

fuck this industry

Couldn't agree more. Everything has to be ruined by greedy fucking companies. Mods used to be made by real fans of games who saw a need or were inspired to fix a problem. Now it's going to be a bunch of greedy fucks looking to get rich while giving valve 75% of the money! What a sick fucking joke!
 
This feels like a concept that is fine, in theory. Modders should get paid for their hard work, and nobody should feel forced to give away something for free simply because "it's the standard".

However, there are several issues with this particular implementation, and several more with the way some modders will inevitably implement it themselves. First off, and this is something I covered in the other Skyrim-related thread, is the fact that the decentralized nature of Valve's structure means that nearly all of these new features have the nasty caveat of "...and then users will just regulate everything themselves", most probably due to the fact that these projects are done by small teams who have the ability to place these features on Steam, but not the ability add new employees to the company's payroll to oversee regulation of these new systems.

The issues with legality are all but inevitable. The modding scene is extremely collaborative, even in terms of "passive" collaboration where people freely take open-source mods and integrate them into their own open-source mods as they create their own larger vision or iteration of the same basic concept. It's this free-to-access nature that lets modding flow from one person, one iteration, and one concept to the next. Any person at any time can pick up the torch and provide a new spin or advancement to the same project.

That's not to say people who want to be compensated for their work are bad, greedy, or "against free modding". Those modders are well within their rights to charge or do what they wish with their mods. But the real issue begins with a paid mod that depends on the work of a free mod. It's easy to see how this wouldn't be a problem if someone's paid mod was built from scratch, but what happens when someone who wants to be compensated for their mod work is using some portion of a different mod that was explicitly open source? Would the author of the original work really be OK with that? Because they don't really desire to make money off their work, does that mean they wouldn't or shouldn't be bothered when someone takes some part of their work, modifies it further, then sells it?

Those aren't questions that are answered easily, and those aren't questions that Valve has even bothered to ask, judging by the fact that they hoisted something like this on the Workshop without actually having figured out half of these kinks.



Exactly. Their "pay what you want" option isn't really "Pay what you want", it's "pay something and we'll decide how much goes to who". Part of Humble Bundle's appeal was letting people choose to whom their money went to. All to developers? All to HB? All to the charity? Any combination of the above? Go for it, you're the one paying, you have the choice.

Valve's doesn't work that way. I want to give $5 to X modder for his really awesome work except I can't. Only $1.25 will actually go to to the modder, the rest is Valve's/Bethesda's. Literally the only way I can give more money to the modder is by HAVING to give Valve/Bethesda even more money in the first place. It's really sleazy.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if modders who pick the "pay what you want" option eventually just make their mod free, then include a donation link in the mod's description. They at least would get far more than a measly 25% for any and all donations.

Just wanted to say, this is a great post. Thumbs up, EatinOlives!

Out of this entire situation, this is probably what angers me the most.

Chesko was gearing up to put some finishing touches on his Campfire mod, as well as updating Frostfall to reflect some performance changes he had found while figuring out how to do multi-threading in Papyrus (Skyrim's scripting language). Because of this debacle, there is a chance he might never put up his finished work on those projects on the Nexus or anywhere else. For those of us who love the modding scene for the mods, this is an unfortunate loss.

He never intended to put his work up on the curated workshop forever; as stated (though we will never truly know if this was the case), he was hoping to put up his work as timed exclusives on the Workshop, and then eventually siphon them back on to the Nexus.

Now, because of this, Valve and Bethesda have effectively hung him up to dry, which has driven him away from this community. His work is legendary, but now - thanks to this - his legacy is likely going to be as one of the first authors who wanted to try out this payment system and is ultimately getting burned.

My stance is that donating to mod authors is fantastic, but having a paywall makes the modding scene much more difficult to navigate for users. Chesko made some strong arguments about why a payment model may benefit the scene, but I still don't think the way that Valve and Bethesda went about it was the best way. He will, hopefully, return to the scene one day.
Yeah, it's a real bummer to have lost such a clever modder. The whole survival element is a key reason why I love the Elder Scrolls games (thank mods for that), and Frostfall's implementation & cross compatibility with other stuff is why it quickly became my mod of choice, only below SkyUI. That sort of creativity, skill, and vision is why mods are great - they give you something you didn't even know you wanted, but always, somehow, dreamed of.

As you say, what happened to Chesko is highly unfortunate... his approach to the service was far from the worst, even if mistaks were made. I hope the Internet at large somehow manages to figure out what really happened before this gets any worse.
 

Sendou

Member
Yeah, nobody would care about the mods in question because they wouldn't exist if Skyrim didn't exist. That's uh, that's great logic. Unless you mean that people only care because the Elder Scrolls has a big modding scene? Because mods have existed since the days of Morrowind, even before that. And nobody made moves to monetize them. And *gasp* people cared about those mods! Crazy I know.

Yes everyone, stop making mods because your games aren't 'things' like Skyrim. Because mods that have been made for the past 15 years have been made for games that 'weren't a thing' and just because one company(Valve) started monetizing them, it's all over.

Again let me try to explain this once more. You're talking about something different entirely. What I mean is that Bethesda deserves a compensation when other people use their work to sell a mod. Which is always going to be a case because that's what mods are by definition. And it's not just concrete things like assets and the game's code. Much of it has to do with the Skyrim brand. People like to call the game shitty but it has still sold 8 million on PC.
 

cdyhybrid

Member
No, to the exact same degree. If the need for a mod arises to such importance that you claim, and a direct avenue to provide it free doesn't exist, what has always happened will still happen - people will crack the shit wide open and still release it for free.

Yeah, and people could be assured of the ability to do it in a legit fashion until this can of worms was opened. If Valve shuts down non-paid mods, you'll have to go underground to find it, which brings risks with it.

I mean, that's probably what's going to happen - Valve is going to lock out free mods, the old modding community will just pirate/hack everything, and you'll have a billion copies of "Get a terribly-made version of Naruto's dagger in Skyrim" mods as the only ones you can get without pirating.

Sounds like a great future to me!

And I played skyrim through without problems. You are spitting hyperbole.

I couldn't. Did you 100% the game?
 

FyreWulff

Member
This is why you can't Open-Source paid mods.

Yes you can. You could totally sell a mod and then include a license that says "you can use my animations but not the models in your own mod without paying, just include a credit". Or anything else. Copyright still protects you.

There's a bunch of OSS used in commercial games all the time that companies either pay for to use or simply include a credit for the use of it. You'll see ffmpeg a lot in credits, for example. That's open source.
 

vcc

Member
Let's see, if you are a developer.

Unreal Engine 4 has initially no cost plus 5% of your revenue.
.

UE4 # 5%: Are you going to create all of your own assets? buying a asset package? Program all your own lighting? But a lighting package? Middle ware? You make your game, every platform will also take at least 30%. So that's 35% if you make all other assets yourself and do everything. How many years is that going to take? Then you need to arrange for advertising etc... How many people do you need to employ to fill those roles? What's your time window to launch all that? How long can you live without income? Doing the 8 year plan of doing it on the side of a day job? How meaningful will the product based on UE4 be in 8 years?

Skyrim costs money to every user that buys a mod plus 75% of your revenue.
Additionally, if your mod is good it will sell many Skyrim copies, and you won't see a single 1% of that.

Savage capitalism is getting out of hand

A single mod isn't likely to move much units. The notable exceptions are Day Z, TF, Coutner Strike, and Dota. All were spun off as separate products eventually. The business case for enable modding is the hope it sells some more units but it may not be the case and I think you vastly over estimate the effect on sales vs the cost of enabling it.
 

theultimo

Member
If they somehow make a mod that reads w3x warcraft ums and translates it to a new engine, I would pay 60 for it. I Miss Skibi that much.
 

mephixto

Banned
Let's see, if you are a developer.

Unreal Engine 4 has initially no cost plus 5% of your revenue.
Skyrim costs money to every user that buys a mod plus 75% of your revenue.
Additionally, if your mod is good it will sell many Skyrim copies, and you won't see a single 1% of that.

Savage capitalism is getting out of hand.

Funny you mention UE4, Unreal Tournament already has mods with a prize tag on it and the game is not even out or close to be finished.

Also like the 80% of the copies of Skyrim on PC were sold in the first months after release of the game at full $60 and with no mod support. Right now the game is sold at just a fraction of their original prize.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
I mean, that's probably what's going to happen - Valve is going to lock out free mods, the old modding community will just pirate/hack everything, and you'll have a billion copies of "Get a terribly-made version of Naruto's dagger in Skyrim" mods as the only ones you can get without pirating.

So when is half-life 3 coming out GabeN
 

MUnited83

For you.
Yeah, and people could be assured of the ability to do it in a legit fashion until this can of worms was opened. If Valve shuts down non-paid mods, you'll have to go underground to find it, which brings risks with it.

I mean, that's probably what's going to happen - Valve is going to lock out free mods, the old modding community will just pirate/hack everything, and you'll have a billion copies of "Get a terribly-made version of Naruto's dagger in Skyrim" mods as the only ones you can get without pirating.

Sounds like a great future to me!



I couldn't. Did you 100% the game?
what's with the stupid doomsday slippery slope theories here? Free mods aint going anywhere and Valve is never going to lock them out. Stop with conspiracies.
 

cdyhybrid

Member
So when is half-life 3 coming out GabeN

Oh, now you choose to pay attention to me asking.

what's with the stupid doomsday slippery slope theories here? Free mods aint going anywhere and Valve is never going to lock them out. Stop with conspiracies.

To both of you -

Neither you nor I have any idea if free mods are going away.

We do know that Valve now has a financial incentive to get rid of them.

That's all I've been saying. Speaking out about a potential doomsday scenario if the possibility presents itself is preferable to bitching about it after it's actually happened.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
25% is just an insult, splitting it 50%-50% should be the minimum.

Couple this with scripting, code and asset sharing among modders, where it was typically acceptable because no money is involved and you have a serious clusterfuck.

On the bright side, maybe the fucking Gabe worship will stop?
 

jmga

Member
UE4 # 5%: Are you going to create all of your own assets? buying a asset package? Program all your own lighting? But a lighting package? Middle ware? You make your game, every platform will also take at least 30%. So that's 35% if you make all other assets yourself and do everything. How many years is that going to take? Then you need to arrange for advertising etc... How many people do you need to employ to fill those roles? What's your time window to launch all that? How long can you live without income? Doing the 8 year plan of doing it on the side of a day job? How meaningful will the product based on UE4 be in 8 years?



A single mod isn't likely to move much units. The notable exceptions are Day Z, TF, Coutner Strike, and Dota. All were spun off as separate products eventually. The business case for enable modding is the hope it sells some more units but it may not be the case and I think you vastly over estimate the effect on sales vs the cost of enabling it.
UE4 provides you a lot of assets, lightning, game templates, etc for no extra cost, and you ar free to use them in your game.

A mod of the caliber of falskaar made with UE4 free assets wouldn't take much more than with skyrim tools.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
Oh, now you choose to pay attention to me asking.

Yes, your double standard was very apparent.

To both of you -

Neither you nor I have any idea if free mods are going away.

We do know that Valve now has a financial incentive to get rid of them.

That's all I've been saying.

Valve detailed the way at Dev Days that they made hand over fist money by giving portal 2 away. Valve also has incentive to give things away. Their monetization isn't only solely tied to direct commerce.
 

cdyhybrid

Member
Yes, your double standard was very apparent.



Valve detailed the way at Dev Days that they made hand over fist money by giving portal 2 away. Valve also has incentive to give things away. Their monetization isn't only solely tied to direct commerce.

I see no statement from Gabe or Bethesda saying that free mods will never go away. Until then, I'll prefer to remain healthily skeptical of any big-time corporation looking to maximize their profits (which is all of them) - especially one with a near-monopoly like Steam.
 
Oh, now you choose to pay attention to me asking.



To both of you -

Neither you nor I have any idea if free mods are going away.

We do know that Valve now has a financial incentive to get rid of them.

That's all I've been saying. Speaking out about a potential doomsday scenario if the possibility presents itself is preferable to bitching about it after it's actually happened.

I assume filling out banking information to subscribe a mod might discourage it too.
And after all these silly uploads I fear that they'll do what they did to Greenlight, erect a cash barrier.
 

Nokterian

Member
Funny you mention UE4, Unreal Tournament already has mods with a prize tag on it and the game is not even out or close to be finished.

Also like the 80% of the copies of Skyrim on PC were sold in the first months after release of the game at full $60 and with no mod support. Right now the game is sold at just a fraction of their original prize.

The new UT is following the same thing as they do in CS:GO and Dota 2..Cosmetics that don't have influence on gameplay.
 
Again let me try to explain this once more. You're talking about something different entirely. What I mean is that Bethesda deserves a compensation when other people use their work to sell a mod. Which is always going to be a case because that's what mods are by definition. And it's not just concrete things like assets and the game's code. Much of it has to do with the Skyrim brand. People like to call the game shitty but it has still sold 8 million on PC.

Which didn't start until Valve and Bethesda approached these modders to make mods for them. And no, that's not what mods are by definition, mods tend to be free, collaborative projects that modify the game.

Now, there's nothing for Bethesda to approach creators and be like 'yo wanna make some money'. That's fine(Although the cut that the creator gets is shit, and that's a different issue.)

The issue I see, is that Valve has a bad streak when it comes to policing user-submitted content; First with Greenlight, where so many glitchy/incomplete/thrown together games are sold on Steam. Jim Sterling covers this fine. And the bigger issue that Valve has currently had to damage control-user submitted mods. More so, the issue of people uploading whatever mod they could grab even if it wasn't there and uploading it.

The only way this could be worse was if Bethesda/Valve pretty much forced Modders to charge for them, if they started DMCAing sites like RPGNexus or what not.

As for the last bolded, yeah if someone releases a mod for free, it's their work. Skyrim sold alot sure, but I bet the people who keep playing are those that mod it actively. This attempt is Valve wanting to add something like 'Hats' to skyrim, so they can profit off someones work.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
I see no statement from Gabe or Bethesda saying that free mods will never go away. Until then, I'll prefer to remain healthily skeptical of any big-time corporation looking to maximize their profits (which is all of them) - especially one with a near-monopoly like Steam.

A) Steam isn't a near-monopoly. That term in and of itself is a contradiction.

B) You yourself have pointed out several times how many people supposedly buy Skyrim specifically for the free mods. Seems to me they have healthy incentive to also keep free mods around.

If you would like a more nuanced, detailed perspective of how valve views UGC, here it is straight from the horses mouth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRyUpR4qOxU
 

Maximo

Member
Gabe-Newell-money-600x350.jpg


104294-he-cant-keep-getting-away-with-SGL1.gif
 

Dwalls

Neo Member
That's all I've been saying. Speaking out about a potential doomsday scenario if the possibility presents itself is preferable to bitching about it after it's actually happened.

No we should just act like everything is all roses and sunshine until we get assaulted by the forces of companies and their profit lines. It's not like there isn't historic precedent here. The Sims for example has been purposefully made harder to mod with each iteration so EA can sell more stuff on their simstore. DLC has all but eliminated free extra content that developers used to make to support their games for a longer timeframe. It wouldn't really call it a doomsday scenario at this point but a very likely end game strategy instead.

What a company says in a public setting and what they actually intend to do can be two very different things. It's not like companies are wholly unfamiliar with the concept of spin.
 

MUnited83

For you.
Oh, now you choose to pay attention to me asking.



To both of you -

Neither you nor I have any idea if free mods are going away.

We do know that Valve now has a financial incentive to get rid of them.

That's all I've been saying. Speaking out about a potential doomsday scenario if the possibility presents itself is preferable to bitching about it after it's actually happened.
I know that will never ever happen. They can't force people to sell their mods if those people don't want to. Again, free mods aint going anywhere. That wouldnt make a nick of sense in the slightest, it would work against them and hurt them finnancially. They well know that the market regulates itself. They have no reason to lock free mods.
 

jmga

Member
Funny you mention UE4, Unreal Tournament already has mods with a prize tag on it and the game is not even out or close to be finished.

Also like the 80% of the copies of Skyrim on PC were sold in the first months after release of the game at full $60 and with no mod support. Right now the game is sold at just a fraction of their original prize.

Well, Epic only gets 30% of all content sold at their store in concept of distribution.
 

cdyhybrid

Member
A) Steam isn't a near-monopoly. That term in and of itself is a contradiction.

B) You yourself have pointed out several times how many people supposedly buy Skyrim specifically for the free mods. Seems to me they have healthy incentive to also keep free mods around.

If you would like a more nuanced, detailed perspective of how valve views UGC, here it is straight from the horses mouth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRyUpR4qOxU

A) Steam is THE dominant PC-gaming distribution platform, there's really no arguing this.

B) They only have that incentive IF the profits gained from mods encouraging more purchases of the game is greater than the profits gained from putting all mods behind a paywall. Maybe it is, I dunno. I don't have access to Bethesda and Valve's books.

Again, until I see proof that that isn't going to be the case, I'll remain healthily skeptical.

I know that will never ever happen. They can't force people to sell their mods if those people don't want to. Again, free mods aint going anywhere. That wouldnt make a nick of sense in the slightest, it would work against them and hurt them finnancially. They well know that the market regulates itself. They have no reason to lock free mods.

They don't have to force people to sell their mods. They can potentially force them to not work if they aren't selling them on Workshop, though.

See B) above.
 

YuShtink

Member
I know that will never ever happen. They can't force people to sell their mods if those people don't want to. Again, free mods aint going anywhere. That wouldnt make a nick of sense in the slightest, it would work against them and hurt them finnancially. They well know that the market regulates itself. They have no reason to lock free mods.

When paid mods become the standard, who in their right mind would continue giving them away for free?
 

reckless

Member
just like they are right now.

Right now the alternative to using paid mods is to use free ones. In the hypothetical scenario of Valve not allowing free mods, the only alternatives are illegal like cracking the game (Which i guess you support?) or pirating.

Pretty big difference between the current situation and a possible future scenario. And it seems like it would be a pretty terrible future.

Steam has the ability to leverage their de - facto monopoly status (overall PC gaming) or a complete monopoly for some games (like Skyrim).
 
Just wanted to say, this is a great post. Thumbs up, EatinOlives!

Thanks!

I don't mean to be hard on the whole concept of compensating paid modders. I really do think they should get paid for their work if they want to be paid. But "dependencies" is something that's really inherent to modding and not without its issues, even when just talking about modding scenes that are completely free. SimCity 4 has a completely clusterfuck of dependency-based modding and a ton of drama between modders who take down their own mods because they can't stand that some other mod uses their work as a dependency. There's conflicts about this even without having money involved, so putting up a system like this really opens up a can of worms that Valve just didn't see coming or did and they simply didn't care.

Really the most bothersome is that no matter how hard this fails, Valve would make money, however little it turns out to be. They really have no incentive to prevent infighting or regulate this at all, and if it fails completely it won't hurt their bottom line. They might be doing irreparable harm to the Skyrim modding scene and they don't really have to care either way.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
B) They only have that incentive IF the profits gained from mods encouraging more purchases of the game is greater than the profits gained from putting all mods behind a paywall. Maybe it is, I dunno. I don't have access to Bethesda and Valve's books.

Again, until I see proof that that isn't going to be the case, I'll remain healthily skeptical.

Valve takes 30% of every sale. Every single person who mods skyrim will buy skyrim. Not everybody who buys skyrim will buy a mod. There is clearly more incentive for them to sell skyrim than there is for them to solely rely on sales of mods.

And you are asking someone to prove a negative, a logical fallacy. The link I posted is 45 minutes long, I'm guessing you didn't watch it.
 

cdyhybrid

Member
That doesn't make Steam a monopoly. By design Steam really can't even be a monopoly, since you can buy games that use Steamworks pretty much anywhere at whatever price that company wants

Steam has a monopoly on Skyrim, and presumably has a decent chance on having a monopoly on TES6.

Valve takes 30% of every sale. Every single person who mods skyrim will buy skyrim. Not everybody who buys skyrim will buy a mod. There is clearly more incentive for them to sell skyrim than there is for them to solely rely on sales of mods.

An odd sentiment from someone who encourages cracking/hacking. Clearly more incentive? Do you have the math to back that up?

And you are asking someone to prove a negative, a logical fallacy. The link I posted is 45 minutes long, I'm guessing you didn't watch it.

False. All it takes is Gabe and Bethesda coming out and saying "free mods aren't going anywhere". Unless you were referring to the specific thing you quoted, in which case it's a simple math equation (that we don't have access to).
 

MUnited83

For you.
When paid mods become the standard, who in their right mind would continue giving them away for free?
People who wanted to? Duh? There's people releasing free games, free músic, free movies everyday. Guess fuckin what, they didnt stop making contente because the standard is being paid. And the point is that Valve will never lock out people from releasing their mod for free if they wish to do so.
 

vcc

Member
UE4 provides you a lot of assets, lightning, game templates, etc for no extra cost, and you ar free to use them in your game.

A mod of the caliber of falskaar made with UE4 free assets wouldn't take much more than with skyrim tools.

Do we know any business detail yet? I haven't heard any and it seems they are monetizing mods of the base game for U4. The 5% is use of the engine on a certain scale of indie. It grows if you grow above a threshold of sales. They are providing a similar environment to Unity. a base package plus market place they take a % on. 5% for low volume but more for high volume.
 
After sleeping on it... I think this is a good change, but it's definitely going to have growing pains. Modders given a source of revenue for their contributions to the community is a good idea. The split could be better of course, but I feel that Valve should implement a key system for Mods that developers can give out to people if they feel like supporting the developer wholesale or something along that line. The biggest problem I can see going forward is the price of the content. Given that Skyrim is now a 5-20 dollar game, it makes little sense for a mod to be in a similar price range. I feel that if the modder wants to make quite a bit of money, is to make their mod very cheap (about $0.25-$1) so that it would cost very little money for the user and it's cheap enough to purchase with pocket change from the card market on Steam. I do think that Skyrim was probably not the best game to implement this though. Given that it has an established modding community where some mods are essential for others, it probably would be for the best if this would be held off until a game is ready for it from the get go.
 

Ri'Orius

Member
UE4 provides you a lot of assets, lightning, game templates, etc for no extra cost, and you ar free to use them in your game.

A mod of the caliber of falskaar made with UE4 free assets wouldn't take much more than with skyrim tools.

Sure, wouldn't take much. You'd just have to re-implement all the game logic. All the spells, all the weapons. Enemy AI. Quest system. User interface. Sound effects. And you'd have to market your UE4 game without piggybacking on the Skyrim name.

Man, those modders sure are foolish. They should just use UE4!

Seriously, the idea that full-fledged games aren't much more work than mods is laughable.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Sure, wouldn't take much. You'd just have to re-implement all the game logic. All the spells, all the weapons. Enemy AI. Quest system. User interface. Sound effects. And you'd have to market your UE4 game without piggybacking on the Skyrim name.

Man, those modders sure are foolish. They should just use UE4!

Seriously, the idea that full-fledged games aren't much more work than mods is laughable.

The idea that a mod is a quarter of the work of a full game is just as laughable.
 
That doesn't make Steam a monopoly. By design Steam really can't even be a monopoly, since you can buy games that use Steamworks pretty much anywhere at whatever price that company wants

Steam can't be a monopoly of game distribution as long as Origin, Uplay and others exist. But they can easily be a monopoly in mod distribution of a game if the game is Steam only like Skyrim or Civ5. And I assume this discussion is about mod distribution and not games.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
Right now the alternative to using paid mods is to use free ones. In the hypothetical scenario of Valve not allowing free mods, the only alternatives are illegal like cracking the game (Which i guess you support?) or pirating.

...no, you don't need to crack the game or pirate it. The way you mod games right now is precisely how you would mod games if they "locked it down." Because the system is already "locked down."

I'm guessing you don't have much experience with actual modding since you keep misunderstanding what I am saying by "hacking it wide open." This has nothing to do with piracy. I am talking about literal hacking - figuring out how the game works at a very low level (sometimes even disassembling the binary itself) and doing things like runtime registry editing. You know - hacking. Not cracking.
 

draetenth

Member


I wish I could speak as well as you two because all I can say is great posts and I agree with what you guys have said.


Yeah, and with the backlash SkyUI seems to be getting now, I wonder if they are next to get pushed out... Even if I never really felt the need mod, I liked doing so because I enjoyed watching mods evolve and see what people could create. It's a sad situation all around.

Kreijlooc, I've been following your conversation for awhile (and I do agree that you should have the right/option to be compensated - though I thought you always could before with Paypal?), but I think I've only seen you go after people who you think are customers who are just whining about having to be paid... You seem to think they don't have the right to complain because they don't know how hard it is to mod (if I understand your posts correctly - sorry if I haven't). What do you think of the modders who have spoken out against this practice?
 

YuShtink

Member
People who wanted to? Duh? There's people releasing free games, free músic, free movies everyday. Guess fuckin what, they didnt stop making contente because the standard is being paid. And the point is that Valve will never lock out people from releasing their mod for free if they wish to do so.

What are all these free games, music, and movies you are talking about? Internet flash games? You're talking about like .001% of those mediums.
 
People that want to and continue to have the choice to.

People still make entire games that they give away for free.

Passion projects will always exist, and if from the start they never planned on selling them, then they'll be free. But for every regular programmer who just wants to add a neat looking weapon or a new hairstyle, why WOULDN'T they sell it? If they make adjustments to the quality of life for the game, whether menus or UI, and they have the option of selling it, why wouldn't they?

It sets a scary precedent. Suddenly I'm thinking, the Warhammer 40k weapon pack I downloaded to mod New Vegas back in the day, for the next Fallout, what if they're in the Steam Workshop for sale?

Like I said, passion projects that modders put out for free will still exist. But for small time modders, who either do some easy UI overlays or create a new menu for the game, then by all means they'll monetize it because they have that option through the biggest gaming platform on PC.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
An odd sentiment from someone who encourages cracking/hacking. Clearly more incentive? Do you have the math to back that up?

Do you know what hacking means? My sentiment isn't odd at all.

False. All it takes is Gabe and Bethesda coming out and saying "free mods aren't going anywhere". Unless you were referring to the specific thing you quoted, in which case it's a simple math equation (that we don't have access to).

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent/

Free, Paid, or Pay What You Want
With over 24,000 free mods available for Skyrim in the Steam Workshop, there will always be lots to do and explore for free. Now you can also find mods with a specified price, or mods where you can choose how much you wish to support the creators. The price is up to the mod creators.
 

Parham

Banned
Do we know any business detail yet? I haven't heard any and it seems they are monetizing mods of the base game for U4. The 5% is use of the engine on a certain scale of indie. It grows if you grow above a threshold of sales. They are providing a similar environment to Unity. a base package plus market place they take a % on. 5% for low volume but more for high volume.

Unity does not have a royalty fee. The one limitation is that you cannot use the personal edition if you generate more than $100,000 in revenue on your project.
 

cdyhybrid

Member
Do you know what hacking means? My sentiment isn't odd at all.



http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent/

That says how it is now, not for TES6. I just want assurance that they're not going to do away with free mods. It's really not that complicated. It's a one-sentence statement.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004HYIAPM/?tag=neogaf0e-20

If you buy it from there, valve doesn't see a dime.

You still have to play it on Steam. You don't think Valve is getting a cut of what you paid Bethesda for it?
 

Krejlooc

Banned
Kreijlooc, I've been following your conversation for awhile (and I do agree that you should have the right/option to be compensated - though I thought you always could before with Paypal?), but I think I've only seen you go after people who you think are customers who are just whining about having to be paid... You seem to think they don't have the right to complain because they don't know how hard it is to mod (if I understand your posts correctly - sorry if I haven't). What do you think of the modders who have spoken out against this practice?

I think they are giving in to slippery slope arguments, just as the consumers are. I can understand why someone would want to distribute their mod for free, I can understand someone wanting more than 25%. I just cannot understand someone bemoaning this first step as though it is the fall of pc modding.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom