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Netduma R1 Router Impressions of how it really eliminates lag

NeOak

Member
By chance I found about the Netduma R1 router. The website, http://netduma.com/, claims that the router reduces lag by using a very special feature: a Geo-filter.

Now, I was quite curious. I like to play a lot of Destiny and PvP is a bit of a wash due to the unreliability of the connections of some people. The game just gets any player it can get and puts them in the same match. However, for low population playlists that can lead to awful, lag ridden matches where you can see the game does not register the hits.

I decided I had enough, so I splurged the $200 dollars with the fastest shipping. Two days later, I had this:

Code:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/ns45u4p.jpg[/img]

I use AT&T U-Verse with the new Motorola/Arris modems for the dual DSL links. It took me 15 minutes to:

  1. Update the router to the latest firmware
  2. Change the bridge mode of the modem so it gave the public IP to the Netduma
  3. Set up my TP-Link Archer C7 as the wireless AP

The router, set up, looks like this:

Code:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/mX2rtqu.jpg[/img]

Now for the test:

The router supports several games and consoles. Now, the full extent of the capabilities it has, such as the Fast VPN, the anti-flood protection and more, are outside the scope of my impressions and are good if you are a streamer or you get DDoS'ed or you have people hogging your bandwidth.

For the geo-filtering, I used Destiny on PS4. All P2P connections for everything. We played on a playlist called "Inferno Clash". Now, this is a no-radars, team deathmatch playlist, which means that it is low population. Destiny by itself will try to match you with ANYONE it can get because there isn't much people.

Now, my real life friends on Destiny live in different parts of the US, so we end up with people from all over the East, Central and Caribbean in our games. No good.

After starting it and configuring it, our games looked like this:
Code:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/2txsgcN.jpg[/img]

Now, I am in TX and they are in MD and NY. So we ended up with people in between and good matches. However, I have friends that live in Puerto Rico. Not a problem, just enlarge the radius, whitelist him and then make it smaller again. So, our next two games were like this:

Code:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7RtK1lv.jpg[/img]

You can see the circle in the Caribbean. BUT my friend in PR was having a bit of lag due to the distance. The routing from there to the US is best for the East coast and it takes a dump when it has to go to Central US. AT&T has a very good backbone for the East coast, even making the twitch server in Miami, FL, the best for me to stream to. One final tweak then:

Code:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/5IddBU6.jpg[/img]

This was it. No red bars. No yellow bars. All green. No more rage inducing BS because you felt there was lag. It was gone. All the times I died it was because the guy that did kill me in PvP did a better play. I could say that I died because the other guy outplayed me.

This works. It is not a placebo effect. It may be expensive, but due to having a full time job, I'd rather spend the limited amount of time that I play games without rage induced by lag.

So do give it a try. The main developer of this router does answer questions on their forums and you can talk directly to him here: http://twitter.com/netduma . From what I heard, he does excellent tech support in case you have a problem and will work with you to troubleshoot it.

NO CHEATING. No, you cannot match with someone then force disconnect him. The router will keep the connection with that person alive no matter what you do so people can't abuse the geo-filtering. It will only stop someone from finding you again if they leave the lobby, which ends the connection.
 
It won't fix my opponents Fisher Price® internet in a fighting game though.

Seriously though this sounds pretty neat. However I am more concerned with P2P connections.
 
Was ready to mock it from the title but hey if it does what you say it does I can see it being useful.

Still though, the root cause of your problems are matchmaking, it's silly that you have to buy some expensive router to try and bandaid it.

Dedicated servers + ping cap (autokick when over the max ping) is the nobrainer easy proper solution that has been standard in gaming for like 20 years.
Your problem is one that should not exist to begin with.
 

Jiraiza

Member
Hooked in by the title only to find out that it just filters out potential connections that could be laggy based on distance. Seems okay, I guess.

I could be wrong though.

Curious how well this would work for fighting games, particularly USF4 on Steam; now that's nasty netplay if I've ever seen one.
 

NeOak

Member
Your router seems to have the momentum of a runaway freight train. Why is it so popular?

Because it does what it claims to do, and it is the only one that does it.

It won't fix my opponents Fisher Price® internet in a fighting game though.

Seriously though this sounds pretty neat. However I am more concerned with P2P connections.

Lol yeah. One friend was using Wi-Fi, so whenever he would have a bit of lag it would be only him. He can't use a LAN cable, or he would.

Was ready to mock it from the title but hey if it does what you say it does I can see it being useful.

Still though, the root cause of your problems are matchmaking, it's silly that you have to buy some expensive router to try and bandaid it.

Dedicated servers + ping cap (autokick when over the max ping) is the nobrainer easy proper solution that has been standard in gaming for like 20 years.
Your problem is one that should not exist to begin with.

Unfortunately, P2P gaming is what we have on consoles and several games. Nothing we can do about it except to work with it. Also, Dedicated Servers can go wrong. Look at MCC.

While I appreciate the product, games should have options like this built in, if it takes 3 minutes to find a match so be it.

99% of people would just stop the search. And it doesn't work with low population playlists.

Hooked in by the title only to find out that it just filters out potential connections that could be laggy based on distance. Seems okay, I guess.

I could be wrong though.

Curious how well this would work for fighting games, particularly USF4 on Steam; now that's nasty netplay if I've ever seen one.

Distance is the main cause of lag. You can't beat the speed of light, plus the equipment processing the signal plus the routing processing.
 
It looks like the geo-filter feature works by blocking connections to people it thinks are far away. Wouldn't this be considered connection tampering and likely result in getting banned from XBL/PSN?
 

NeOak

Member
So how long does it take you to MM into a low population game-type with the Netduma?

Does it work in Trials?

For Inferno Clash, we ended up having to wait 2 minutes. Sometimes the game would start it 5v5 in like 30 seconds and then found 2 others in the middle of the game.

Yes, it works in Trials.

It looks like the geo-filter feature works by blocking connections to people it thinks are far away. Wouldn't this be considered connection tampering and likely result in getting banned from XBL/PSN?

No, it is no different than having a "NAT issue" with someone and not being able to match with that person.. And you can't force disconnect people. So NO cheating.
 

No_Style

Member
Was ready to mock it from the title but hey if it does what you say it does I can see it being useful.

Still though, the root cause of your problems are matchmaking, it's silly that you have to buy some expensive router to try and bandaid it.

Dedicated servers + ping cap (autokick when over the max ping) is the nobrainer easy proper solution that has been standard in gaming for like 20 years.
Your problem is one that should not exist to begin with.

This is ultimately how I feel about a product like this. It's appears to do as advertised but it shouldn't need to exist if games matchmake properly. Even P2P should be matching players by proximity first. I believe one of the BLOPS games could be be set to improve the quality of connections first but it takes time.

Fake edit:

Here's a SmallNetBuilder forum thread for those who are curious from a more technical perspective. Apparently it uses a "mikrotik" board. *shrug*
 
No. And you can't force disconnect people. So NO cheating.

I understand that, but certain people will not be able to connect to you, hopefully only while you are searching for matchmaking. It seems to be a more selective lag switch? I understand the purpose isn't to cheat, but I wonder if it will look that way on the XBL/PSN side.
 

NeOak

Member
I understand that, but certain people will not be able to connect to you, hopefully only while you are searching for matchmaking. It seems to be a more selective lag switch? I understand the purpose isn't to cheat, but I wonder if it will look that way on the XBL/PSN side.

No. It just doesn't respond, that is all. No different than ultra strict NAT.

And no lol, it isn't a lagswitch. Once you are connected with someone it will keep that connection alive until they leave the lobby you are in.
 
Your router seems to have the momentum of a runaway freight train. Why is it so popular?

lisa-mr-burns-runaway-train1.jpg
 

Deku Tree

Member
For Inferno Clash, we ended up having to wait 2 minutes. Sometimes the game would start it 5v5 in like 30 seconds and then found 2 others in the middle of the game.

Yes, it works in Trials.

If it takes two minutes then I bet the people who are connecting with you quit out a lot of times before the MM is finished. That's probably why you started with 5v5 sometimes because people quit. It could end up starting you at 6v4 too I guess if people quit out of the MM because it is taking too long.

So the Netduma manipulates the way MM works by rejecting your connection with players that are too far away? Then the MM prevents you from playing with them.

But it can't stop a cheater who is using a VPN that is close to you but is still laggy. I guess you can ban that IP from future connection with you though.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
I understand that, but certain people will not be able to connect to you, hopefully only while you are searching for matchmaking. It seems to be a more selective lag switch? I understand the purpose isn't to cheat, but I wonder if it will look that way on the XBL/PSN side.
It's not like a lag switch at all.
It just doesn't establish a connection to other clients that it deems to be outside its range.

That is distinct from what a lag switch does which is after establishing a connection to on demand stop the send and receiving of packets within that connection.

---

I guess this is a neat device. Someone that isn't me should get a rasperry pi to do the same.
 
Well a lagswitch just turns off your connection to everyone, this does to certain people. That is all I meant by that. I still don't think that not allowing connections to or not responding to certain IPs is how I would want to solve this problem, but if it works it it works.
 

NeOak

Member
If it takes two minutes then I bet the people who are connecting with you quit out a lot of times before the MM is finished. That's probably why you started with 5v5 sometimes because people quit. It could end up starting you at 6v4 too I guess if people quit out of the MM because it is taking too long.

So the Netduma manipulates the way MM works by rejecting your connection with players that are too far away? Then the MM prevents you from playing with them.

But it can't stop a cheater who is using a VPN that is close to you but is still laggy. I guess you can ban that IP from future connection with you though.

Yes, Yes and Yeah, you can blacklist people manually. It actually uses unique IDs with a hashtag i don't understand where it gets from. So i think it is more specific than just an IP address.
 

Deku Tree

Member
Yes, Yes and Yeah, you can blacklist people manually. It actually uses unique IDs with a hashtag i don't understand where it gets from. So i think it is more specific than just an IP address.

But if there is a really laggy player in your game then how do you connect their PSN/XBL tag in game to their "unique IDs with a hashtag" that you see on your computer coming from Netduma?
 

NeOak

Member
But if there is a really laggy player in your game then how do you connect their PSN/XBL tag in game to their "unique IDs with a hashtag" that you see on your computer coming from Netduma?

I didn't go into detail but the router has a very elaborate and easy to use interface. Basically, it will keep track of the pings of the actual connections that you have at the moment you are playing. It is also an average, so somenone lagging with have a larger bar than the rest.

You just click on that bar, set the reliability of the connection to 0, name it and then save it. Blacklisted. Just leave the lobby and you wont MM with that again.

You can also click on the circles on the map and whitelist or blacklist someone. As for the hashtags, I can't say how they work because I really don't know.

Did that answer your question?
 

Deku Tree

Member
Oh so if you are playing with a group then only one of them has to have a Netduma right? And then everybody gets the benefit of it.
 

NeOak

Member
Oh so if you are playing with a group then only one of them has to have a Netduma right? And then everybody gets the benefit of it.

Yes, I'm the only one in my group of friends that have and we all get the benefit.

If you want, let's play some Destiny so you can see. I have you on my FL.

So play Trials, blacklist anyone you lose against. Got it!

No different than blocking them lol.

Also, you don't match with the same team again by design. lol. So after one match you won't see them again for I think that weekend.
 

Deku Tree

Member
Yes, I'm the only one in my group of friends that have and we all get the benefit.

If you want, let's play some Destiny so you can see. I have you on my FL.

I am not at home now but yes it would be fun to play some time. I'd like to see what it's like with Netduma.
 

Victrix

*beard*
Also, you don't match with the same team again by design. lol. So after one match you won't see them again for I think that weekend.

Not even remotely true, I've killed the same team three times in a row and kicked them out of their ticket.

Likewise, gone up against the same team repeatedly.
 

NeOak

Member
Not even remotely true, I've killed the same team three times in a row and kicked them out of their ticket.

Likewise, gone up against the same team repeatedly.

:O

I stand corrected. I never have matched against the same team.

But I don't play Trials that much either lol.

So yeah, you can do that.
 

Deku Tree

Member
Not even remotely true, I've killed the same team three times in a row and kicked them out of their ticket.

Likewise, gone up against the same team repeatedly.

I think if you stay in the matchmaking then you are very unlikely to match against the same team again.

If you go to orbit and then MM again then you can match against anyone. If you are in a more isolated location then since ToO has location based MM then you are more likely to match against the same team again.
 

Serdal

Neo Member
*cough*

Why not buy an actual mikrotik router, and well.. save 100+$? http://routerboard.com/ and you can find them at least like 15-20% cheaper on amazon or other places. Plus I guess if you really want their software, you probably can just get the same hardware (RB951G-2HND) and flash it I would imagine. Since I highly doubt they modified it in any way, otherwise they would've actually you know.. ordered a custom case at least...
 

EL CUCO

Member
Not even remotely true, I've killed the same team three times in a row and kicked them out of their ticket.

Likewise, gone up against the same team repeatedly.
I have also experienced this. Atleast once a week we get put up against a team we played on the match prior.

OT: This is really interesting, but would I still have lag issues if most of my Destiny friends are spread out across the country? I'm in Miami, FL and game with people in Cali, Philly, Texas, Boston.

On many occasions, I've noticed while playing solo that I get paired up with Mexican servers. I would imagine it could prevent that from happening but not sure if it will help when I play with friends.
 

NeOak

Member
*cough*

Why not buy an actual mikrotik router, and well.. save 100+$? http://routerboard.com/ and you can find them at least like 15-20% cheaper on amazon or other places. Plus I guess if you really want their software, you probably can just get the same hardware (RB951G-2HND) and flash it I would imagine. Since I highly doubt they modified it in any way, otherwise they would've actually you know.. ordered a custom case at least...

So you're suggesting to pirate their software? And IIRC, this is based on OpenWRT.

Does this work with MMOs?

No, because those are dedicated servers. It works with mainly

Xbox live
Quake 3
CS:GO
DOTA 2
Insurgency
LoL
PlayStation network
Wii Online

I have also experienced this. Atleast once a week we get put up against a team we played on the match prior.

OT: This is really interesting, but would I still have lag issues if most of my Destiny friends are spread out across the country? I'm in Miami, FL and game with people in Cali, Philly, Texas, Boston.

On many occasions, I've noticed while playing solo that I get paired up with Mexican servers. I would imagine it could prevent that from happening but not sure if it will help when I play with friends.

My friends are spread out too. And yes, it stopped me from matching with Mexicans, since I'm in Texas it was a pain.

The images are of me playing with my friends. And yes, it helped. You just gotta force it to where everyone has the best connection to.
 

Deku Tree

Member
Does this work with MMOs?

It should work with any game where you have P2P MM and you care about lag. I don't know if MMO's all have dedicated servers or are P2P.

*cough*

Why not buy an actual mikrotik router, and well.. save 100+$? http://routerboard.com/ and you can find them at least like 15-20% cheaper on amazon or other places. Plus I guess if you really want their software, you probably can just get the same hardware (RB951G-2HND) and flash it I would imagine. Since I highly doubt they modified it in any way, otherwise they would've actually you know.. ordered a custom case at least...

What is that exactly and how does it work? Can anyone use it? Do you need to have a lot of tech knowledge?

I did a google search and that sounds like a pro level product that can do almost anything.

The Netduma seems like it's designed just for gamers who want to reduce lag and it has a user friendly interface that people who are not tech pro's or don't want to spend a lot of time learning how to do things can use in a few minutes.
 

Pejo

Member
Thanks for the impressions with this OP, I was looking into this to use with my free Meraki AP I got from Cisco. Glad to hear it actually works from someone not trying to sell me one.
 
Because it does what it claims to do, and it is the only one that does it.



Lol yeah. One friend was using Wi-Fi, so whenever he would have a bit of lag it would be only him. He can't use a LAN cable, or he would.



Unfortunately, P2P gaming is what we have on consoles and several games. Nothing we can do about it except to work with it. Also, Dedicated Servers can go wrong. Look at MCC.



99% of people would just stop the search. And it doesn't work with low population playlists.



Distance is the main cause of lag. You can't beat the speed of light, plus the equipment processing the signal plus the routing processing.

MCC didn't (doesn't?) use dedi servers due to how broken everything was, it fell back to P2P instead
 

Serdal

Neo Member
So you're suggesting to pirate their software? And IIRC, this is based on OpenWRT.

I'm unsure about how ethically/legally right or wrong that is (in both ways, as you installing their software, or them using other hardware) but a) I'm sure you can do all that on RouterOS, just without fancy looking menus (demo site) b) and well.. why not? If they dont want it to happen, it's probably protected (I'm obviously speculating here).

All in all I just see this as sort of well... rebadging a good product from a relatively obscure brand for the masses. I'm sure there's sence is there, I'm just not so keen on 130$+ markup for fancy menus.
 

NeOak

Member
MCC didn't (doesn't?) use dedi servers due to how broken everything was, it fell back to P2P instead

That is what I meant. Everything was so broken even with the dedicated servers it had to use P2P anyway.

I'm unsure about how ethically/legally right or wrong that is (in both ways, as you installing their software, or them using other hardware) but a) I'm sure you can do all that on RouterOS, just without fancy looking menus (demo site) b) and well.. why not? If they dont want it to happen, it's probably protected (I'm obviously speculating here).

All in all I just see this as sort of well... rebadging a good product from a relatively obscure brand for the masses.

Please create a version of the firmware that does what this does with a click and then give me support when it doesn't work.

it isn't just rebadging a good product. Creating the whole GUI isn't as easy as it sounds and making it work with the services.
 

Deku Tree

Member
That is what I meant. Everything was so broken even with the dedicated servers it had to use P2P anyway.



Please create a version of the firmware that does what this does with a click and then give me support when it doesn't work.

it isn't just rebadging a good product. Creating the whole GUI isn't as easy as it sounds and making it work with the services.

Does the GUI only work with Windows? Mac compatible software (unlikely I guess)? Web based software? Mobile iOS/Android software?
 

NeOak

Member
Does the GUI only work with Windows? Mac compatible software (unlikely I guess)? Web based software? Mobile iOS/Android software?

I used IE, Chrome and Opera with it. It is a webpage when you log in to the router.

It even opens on Windows Phone 8.1 lol.
 

Deku Tree

Member
I'm unsure about how ethically/legally right or wrong that is (in both ways, as you installing their software, or them using other hardware) but a) I'm sure you can do all that on RouterOS, just without fancy looking menus (demo site) b) and well.. why not? If they dont want it to happen, it's probably protected (I'm obviously speculating here).

All in all I just see this as sort of well... rebadging a good product from a relatively obscure brand for the masses. I'm sure there's sence is there, I'm just not so keen on 130$+ markup for fancy menus.

Yup Netduma is almost definitely just adding a user friendly software GUI interface to that router for the limited purpose of reducing lag in P2P video games. That router looks like a swiss army knife of routers that can do almost anything.

Most of the people using Netduma don't have the time or the interest in learning how to do the same thing with RouterOS.

It is a unique product right now so no competition, so big markup. If someone else makes a similar product then prices will come down a lot. But it's probably a small market to begin with so maybe no one else will care...
 

d00p

Neo Member
I understand that, but certain people will not be able to connect to you, hopefully only while you are searching for matchmaking. It seems to be a more selective lag switch? I understand the purpose isn't to cheat, but I wonder if it will look that way on the XBL/PSN side.
Yep people are already using this router to cheat in online call of duty tournaments. They'll block an opposing player to force forfeits or make them play a man down. Its also used to delay match starts.
 

Serdal

Neo Member
It is a unique product right now so no competition, so big markup. If someone else makes a similar product then prices will come down a lot. But it's probably a small market to begin with so maybe no one else will care...

Good point, should be interesting to see how this shakes out. Not that I'm interested in the product myself, but I'm all for people getting better routers (that is if it retains the good qualities of Mikrotik's stuff).
 
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