• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Gizmodo - " There Are Some Super Shady Things in Oculus Rift's Terms of Service"

A

Animator

Member
I am surprised to see there is no discussion about this already because some of this stuff is outright insane. Pasting the first part of the article there is much more at the link on the extent of privacy invasion when you use the headset, everyone should read it.

http://gizmodo.com/there-are-some-super-shady-things-in-oculus-rifts-terms-1768678169

The Oculus Rift is starting to ship, and we’re pretty happy with it. While it’s cool, like any interesting gadget, it’s worth looking through the Terms of Service, because there are some worrisome things included.

Quite a few of the items in the document are pretty typical in any sort of Terms of Service agreement. These include details like waiving your right to a juried trial and agreeing to go into arbitration instead. Oculus can also terminate your service for myriad reasons, and third parties can collect information on you. However, there are some even more devilish details in the Rift’s full Terms of Service.

Oculus (and basically Facebook) owns creative content

If you create something with the Rift, the Terms of Service say that you surrender all rights to that work and that Oculus can use it whenever it wants, for whatever purposes:

By submitting User Content through the Services, you grant Oculus a worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual (i.e. lasting forever), non-exclusive, transferable, royalty-free and fully sublicensable (i.e. we can grant this right to others) right to use, copy, display, store, adapt, publicly perform and distribute such User Content in connection with the Services. You irrevocably consent to any and all acts or omissions by us or persons authorized by us that may infringe any moral right (or analogous right) in your User Content.
Basically, if you create something using the device, Oculus can’t own it, but the company can use it—and they don’t have to pay you for for using it. Oculus can use it even if you don’t agree with its use.

This probably doesn’t matter much if you’re using the device as a gaming platform, but with a new type of device that’s out there, there are a whole range of unforeseen uses. Based on the wording of the Terms of Service, a creative developer could make a piece of interactive artwork that Oculus could then use for an Oculus ad without the artist’s permission.

Who knows what else VR might allow people to create. But to do so—at least initially with the Oculus Rift—you might lose out on exclusivity with your work, something that’s important for writers and artists.
Click to expand...
 
L

LUFTRAUSER

Banned
So I guess facebook isn't planning on selling too many of these things huh? I guess I'll just get a Vive instead! I knew something like this would happen to the Oculus as soon as facebook bought them out but man I didn't realize it would be this bad.
 
L

Linkstrikesback

Member
Huh.

Well, they probably don't want to rob creators, and only intend to use it in advertisements... but I sure as heck wouldn't want to take that risk if I were a developer.
 
C

CHC

Member
Well it makes my decision to get one that much easier. Facebook is an unsettling company in the first place. Like the article said, as an end user this probably won't affect most people that much, but it still doesn't mean I have to support it or like it. Precedents like this are terrible for fostering healthy communities and getting things off the ground.

Xenoblade said:
Question: Would they have the right to monetize/sell user created content?
Click to expand...

I'm of a lawyer but from the sound of it, that is exactly what the agreement permits. Whether they will do that or not remains to be seen, but it sure seems like they want to.
 
B

bronson

Member
Isn't this pretty common for a social media ToS? Similar language is a given with Facebook and Instagram, yeah?
 
H

Hyoukokun

Member
The arbitration thing is sadly bog-standard these days (I remember when Sony added it to the PSN terms of service years ago)... there was a major court ruling that opened the floodgates on it if I remember right.

I'm not a lawyer, but I am not sure they are interpreting the terms around creative content quite right. The terms sound over-broad, but they appear to revolve around Oculus having the right to host content that you send to them and feed it back to you (potentially from a third-party service like AWS, hence the 'transferable' bit). It might allow them to do something like use that content in a demo reel or an advertisement - Facebook has certainly done similar things in the past. I'm still not super comfortable with it, but it doesn't sound like they intend to try to sell user content without consent.
 
X

Xenoblade

Member
If this is seriously true, then this is a big deal. There is no way I would ever agree to this if I was an amateur/pro developer. It's basically saying that if I create the Minecraft equivalent of VR, Facebook can steal my work and make billions off it.

No thanks. Viva le Vive
 
Hale-XF11

Hale-XF11

Member
This is deal is getting worse all the time.

CkyUXq5n6mtag.gif
 
S

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
This is what Google had in Chrome's EULA:

"By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any content which you submit, post or display on or through, the services. This license is for the sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the services and may be revoked for certain services as defined in the additional terms of those services."
 
Insane Metal

Insane Metal

Member
bronson said:
I'd say taking a photo is a pretty solid example of an "original creation," one that FB can use in whatever way it pleases if you upload it to their service.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's pretty comparable to working on a project for months, as a developer and then having them use it whatever way they want.
 
A

Animator

Member
You do not create content with instagram and facebook like you can with the Rift so the "it's the same thing you agree with facebook tos guys" doesn't really fly. As a content creator myself who is looking into things to do with VR other than gaming Facebook can go eat a big dick with this TOS.

Also it seems people are not reading the rest of the article before commenting, it doesnt stop at "we own everything you do"

It also has gems like:

Oculus can collect data from you while you’re using the device

This caveat is more obvious but also more worrisome. The Terms of Service document reads:

Information about your interactions with our Services, like information about the games, content, apps or other experiences you interact with, and information collected in or through cookies, local storage, pixels, and similar technologies (additional information about these technologies is available at https://www.oculus.com/en-us/cookies-...);
Information about how you access our Services, including information about the type of device you’re using (such as a headset, PC, or mobile device), your browser or operating system, your Internet Protocol (“IP”) address, and certain device identifiers that may be unique to your device;

Information about the games, content, or other apps installed on your device or provided through our Services, including from third parties;

Location information, which can be derived from information such as your device’s IP address. If you’re using a mobile device, we may collect information about the device’s precise location, which is derived from sources such as the device’s GPS signal and

information about nearby WiFi networks and cell towers; and
Information about your physical movements and dimensions when you use a virtual reality headset.’

Furthermore, the information that they collect can be used to directly market products to you:

To market to you. We use the information we collect to send you promotional messages and content and otherwise market to you on and off our Services. We also use this information to measure how users respond to our marketing efforts.
Click to expand...


Sure facebook go through my computer. I am more than willing to be a human guinea pig for you so you can sell my info to the highest bidder.
 
B

BriGuy

Member
Hypothetically, could you create something, have Facebook or one of its "partners" appropriate it, and then turn around and hit you with a cease and desist or sue you if you continue to build on it?

Sounds super gross regardless.
 
1

10k

Banned
Vive wins the PC and non-gaming segment. PSVR takes the console crowd. Oculus dun fucked up.
 
G

GRaider81

Member
Im involved in architecture, and VR has become a bit of a talking point within my circles especially regarding interactive models etc.

If i create an interactive model for the rift do they then own own that?
 
J

Jedi2016

Member
GRaider81 said:
Im involved in architecture, and VR has become a bit of a talking point within my circles especially regarding interactive models etc.

If i create an interactive model for the rift do they then own own that?
Click to expand...
Only if you upload it to the Store for everyone else. "User Content uploaded through the Service" is what it says. They can't claim ownership of something that never leaves your computer.
 
S

Sciz

Member
Oculus (and basically Facebook) owns creative content

If you create something with the Rift, the Terms of Service say that you surrender all rights to that work and that Oculus can use it whenever it wants, for whatever purposes:
Click to expand...

...

Our Services may include interactive features and areas where you may submit, post, upload, publish, email, send or otherwise transmit content, including, but not limited to, text, images, photos, videos, sounds, virtual reality environments or features, software and other information and materials (collectively, “User Content”). Unless otherwise agreed to, we do not claim any ownership rights in or to your User Content.
Click to expand...

That's the bit in the TOS immediately proceeding the quoted bit in the OP.
 
1

10k

Banned
GRaider81 said:
Im involved in architecture, and VR has become a bit of a talking point within my circles especially regarding interactive models etc.

If i create an interactive model for the rift do they then own own that?
Click to expand...
Yes. And if you use the rift while inside your house, your title deed for the house is transferred to Facebook.
 
U

UpDownLeftRight

Banned
GRaider81 said:
Im involved in architecture, and VR has become a bit of a talking point within my circles especially regarding interactive models etc.

If i create an interactive model for the rift do they then own own that?
Click to expand...

Technically, but I think the same also goes for basically any creators who upload to social media too such as small time bands etc. I'm not really sure what implications it may have but it's always been something that stuck out to me as dubious with social media and it's concerning here too.

I'd imagine that any copyright would hold up over Facebook's little clause, but I've never really read up on it either. It's probably worth seeing if legal battles have been fought over anything similar before.
 
D

DealWithIt

Member
Stereogatari said:
How is this legal?
Click to expand...

It may not be, legal provisions like this end up having to be tested in court. It can be a real crapshoot. Some provisions have really been vetted, for example arbitration clauses are almost always enforceable, but other phraseology that companies have tried in the past has failed. For example: early Internet contracts contained language saying that the company could change the contract terms at any time without notice. Clauses like that have failed in court before and so usually they have to be more carefully written to include a need for notice. My guess of the substance of effective this will be just to drive people who care about creating intellectual-property away from oculus.
 
I

iMax

Member
Non-story.

This is literally what every website that displays user-generated content has in their terms of service. It's so their ass is covered when you upload your copyrighted content onto their servers, hence...

By submitting User Content through the Services, you grant Oculus a worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual (i.e. lasting forever), non-exclusive, transferable, royalty-free and fully sublicensable (i.e. we can grant this right to others) right to use, copy, display, store, adapt, publicly perform and distribute such User Content in connection with the Services.
Click to expand...

Without this clause they would be unable to display anything, as they would not have your legal consent.

Exact same bullshit as the "Facebook Messenger is listening to everything you say!" stories that used to pop up.

Journalists need to do their research and understand the law properly before shock-jocking their readers.
 
UnrealEck

UnrealEck

Member
Might be similar for stuff on Steam.
From section 6.A of their subscriber agreement.

You grant Valve and its affiliates the worldwide, non-exclusive, right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, transcode, translate, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and publicly perform, your User Generated Content, and derivative works of your User Generated Content, in connection with the operation and promotion of the Steam site. This license is granted to Valve for the entire duration of the intellectual property rights and may be terminated if Valve is in breach of the license and has not cured such breach within fourteen (14) days from receiving notice from you sent to the attention of the Valve Legal Department at the applicable Valve address noted on this Privacy Policy page. The termination of said license does not affect the rights of any sub-licensees pursuant to any sub-license granted by Valve prior to termination of the license. Valve is the sole owner of the derivative works created by Valve from your Content, and is therefore entitled to grant licenses on these derivative works. If you use Valve cloud storage, you grant us a license to store your information as part of that service. Valve may place limits on the amount of storage you may use.
Click to expand...

I think it's pretty standard stuff for this type of thing.
 
D

Deserted Maniac Island

Member
Xenoblade said:
Question: Does this allow them to take user created content and sell it?
Click to expand...

I think it's a similar idea to instagram (Which Facebook owns), the company has the right to use you user generated content, so you photo may show up imbedded into a website. Like for a restaurant chain, using their hashtag, they will show your photo. I'm not sure what oculus are going to do with this though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

[UPDATE] 3DS and Wii U software online services to end on April 8 | Pokemon Bank and Poke Transporter to remain online
News
0
512
Thick Thighs Save Lives replied
  • Poll
Do you have a VR headset? Will you ever buy one?
2 3
148
3K
Codes 208 replied
Xbox's automated 'moderation' systems need to be scrapped. Microsoft has fired thousands of customer service employees, and replaced them with AI
Opinion News Drama 2
93
6K
StereoVsn replied
PC Gamer: Turns out Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart CAN run on a hard drive thanks to DirectStorage 1.2
Hardware 2 3 4
197
13K
theclaw135 replied
How To Play PlayStation Exclusive Games On Xbox Using Boosteroid
2
92
5K
Goalus replied
Top Bottom