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Jimquisition (April 25, 2016) - Newtendo
- Thread starter L~A
- Start date
DownGrader
Member
Sorry, Jim, they work fine for me. I was raised on touch- and motion controls, though.
LegendofLex
Member
I'm definitely willing to go to bat for the Arwing controls, but the Walker and Gyrowing were irredeemably bad.
Been on the fence with it since I even hate the gyro controls of Splatoon, so I think I'll give it a miss for now.
Davey Cakes
Member
I hope he's joking about the SF0 control thing.
It's ridiculous to paint something like that as black or white. If something's not good, it's utter trash? Terrible attitude. There are clearly people who enjoy the controls in the game and made the necessary adjustment.
I wouldn't want to watch or listen to something like this when I disagree with the entire angle of the person's opinion from the outset.
It's ridiculous to paint something like that as black or white. If something's not good, it's utter trash? Terrible attitude. There are clearly people who enjoy the controls in the game and made the necessary adjustment.
I wouldn't want to watch or listen to something like this when I disagree with the entire angle of the person's opinion from the outset.
NinjaCoachZ
Member
IIRC Jim hated Kid Icarus Uprising too. :/
TheDinoman
Member
Jimmy boy trashed Kid Icarus Uprising (or atleast gave it a 5/10) because of its controls so it's not surprising he's reacting in a similar way to Starfox Zero.
Nemesis_
Member
Have yet to watch the video as I'm out but super disappointed if Jim is being serious with that comment.
Neit did a fantastic post over in the SF Zero OT about how the controls help the game rather than detract from it and I have to agree.
I didn't mind KIU but I also saw the merit in complaining about those controls. For Star Fox I just don't fucking get it - they're not that bad!
Neit did a fantastic post over in the SF Zero OT about how the controls help the game rather than detract from it and I have to agree.
I didn't mind KIU but I also saw the merit in complaining about those controls. For Star Fox I just don't fucking get it - they're not that bad!
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
He's really gonna boil some piss with this video. I can't comment on Star Fox's controls, but I 100% agree with the larger point. Sometimes it wouldn't kill them to just release a straight sequel.
haven't played it myself but I was made more optimistic about the controls when I saw digital foundry's praise of them
I guess the learning curve is a bit divisive
ok that makes it easier to see where he's coming from
I guess the learning curve is a bit divisive
ok that makes it easier to see where he's coming from
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
I'm typically in agreement with Jim Sterling on just about everything, but I think the controls in Star Fox Zero work perfectly fine once you've gotten comfortable with them.
In fact I wouldn't want the game any other way.
Of course, by all means he's welcome to his opinion on the matter and I won't say he's necessarily wrong.
In fact I wouldn't want the game any other way.
Of course, by all means he's welcome to his opinion on the matter and I won't say he's necessarily wrong.
Watching it now.
Speaking of which, it really need a HD port if we're not going to see a sequel in another 20 years.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
You clearly haven't played Lair.
I'm having such a good time with Star Fox Zero, but I had a friend whose opinions usually match up with mine basically put down the gamepad and walk away from the game forever on that first walker mission. It's a game that asks you to forget a whole lot of very strong consensus on how video game movement should work.
Neoleo2143
Member
Divisive game is divisive.
Anyway, when you learn to quick turn in the walker, it pretty much fixes the issue there.
Anyway, when you learn to quick turn in the walker, it pretty much fixes the issue there.
AcademicSaucer
Member
What the fuck Jim, Spirit Tracks controls work great. The game was amazing.
I don't know if I'd say irredeemably bad, but yeah. Arwing controls were fine after a mission or two of getting used to them, but those two were so awkward and clunky
Pretty sure you *can* play the game without using the motion controls, it's just harder because you have less, well, control on where you're shooting.
As for the second screen, pressing the (-) button switches the image from the gamepad to the TV, which would be like switching between 3rd person view and 1st person view in any game.
As for the second screen, pressing the (-) button switches the image from the gamepad to the TV, which would be like switching between 3rd person view and 1st person view in any game.
DidntKnowJack
Member
Let me guess, he played it for a few hours and that was enough to deem it horrible. I guess bitching is his schtick so more power to ya, bronie.
No I haven't.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Just played the first 4 missions and was having a blast woth the controls. Had problems with the landmaster titania boss at the beggining, but on everything else felt good.
I probably need to learn some tricks with the walker turning though.
I probably need to learn some tricks with the walker turning though.
So you're saying he beat the game.
FaintDeftone
Junior Member
I haven't played Star Fox Zero yet so I can't comment on that, but I can say that Kid Icarus: Uprising had god awful controls and I can't see how anyone can still defend it. That should have been a Wii U game with dual analog controls. If this game has similar issues, I can already tell I'm going to have a problem with it. Still, I'm excited to play it.
Neoleo2143
Member
He probably got stuck on Andross like a lot of people.
Also anyone whose played KI, knows the game could have been designed at any other controls scheme at 9.0. It's just not possible, you need to move that fast and dual analog is way to slow.
FreedomFighter
Member
I think you should answer Orniletter's question and stop trying to make this a console warrior battle ground.
Gotta do better than blaming Nintendo fans defending everything to hide the fact you were not willing to sufficiently take the time to learn something because preconceived notions about motion controls.
Haven't touched SF0 yet, it really speaks to my opinion on Nintendo's fascination with innovation that my favorite Wii U innovation is off-screen play. Just using the gamepad as another screen for playing.
The fact that Nintendo won't make new games in certain series without enough innovation pisses me off to no end. That's why we're getting Federation Force instead of a proper 2D Metroid, it's why F-Zero is relegated to being DLC for Mario Kart, it's why this is the first brand new Star Fox since Command. Meanwhile they're happy to churn out Mario spinoffs without any innovation.
The fact that Nintendo won't make new games in certain series without enough innovation pisses me off to no end. That's why we're getting Federation Force instead of a proper 2D Metroid, it's why F-Zero is relegated to being DLC for Mario Kart, it's why this is the first brand new Star Fox since Command. Meanwhile they're happy to churn out Mario spinoffs without any innovation.
So this game had the same problem as Kid Icarus did? Awesome, know to pass on it then.
If your argument is "It's a great game once you get used to the control scheme", I think you've kind of missed the point on what controls in a game should be(intuitive).
If your game can be controlled in a better way/way that doesn't interfere with you wanting to play it, then there's probably a problem somewhere.
If your argument is "It's a great game once you get used to the control scheme", I think you've kind of missed the point on what controls in a game should be(intuitive).
If your game can be controlled in a better way/way that doesn't interfere with you wanting to play it, then there's probably a problem somewhere.
I was critical of the controls and dual-screen setup in Zero... before I played it.
But they work brilliantly. How quickly someone takes to them will depend on how their mind is wired, though. There are things I pick up quicker than others, and vice-versa. I struggled with hadoukens in Street Fighter and tank controls in Resident Evil for the longest time, while others picked them up instantly. With Zero, things clicked immediately for me but are clearly taking longer for others.
But the setup works beautifully.
They're able to throw so much at you because the dual-screen setup and motion controls allow you to handle it. This kind of gameplay simply couldn't be achieved through traditional means. It's engaging from all directions, how you can fly one way and shoot another, dodging incoming lasers and force fields on one screen while swatting down enemies and turrets on the other screen — including targets that have long since flown out of view on the main screen.
The expanded spatial awareness afforded by multiple perspectives and the incredible speed and precision of the cockpit view opens up vast new realms of gameplay that is meaningful and fun. It's amazing and shows the great potential the WiiU has. Just a bummer they're only beginning to realize its potential now, but hopefully the NX will have a second screen, too.
But they work brilliantly. How quickly someone takes to them will depend on how their mind is wired, though. There are things I pick up quicker than others, and vice-versa. I struggled with hadoukens in Street Fighter and tank controls in Resident Evil for the longest time, while others picked them up instantly. With Zero, things clicked immediately for me but are clearly taking longer for others.
But the setup works beautifully.
They're able to throw so much at you because the dual-screen setup and motion controls allow you to handle it. This kind of gameplay simply couldn't be achieved through traditional means. It's engaging from all directions, how you can fly one way and shoot another, dodging incoming lasers and force fields on one screen while swatting down enemies and turrets on the other screen — including targets that have long since flown out of view on the main screen.
The expanded spatial awareness afforded by multiple perspectives and the incredible speed and precision of the cockpit view opens up vast new realms of gameplay that is meaningful and fun. It's amazing and shows the great potential the WiiU has. Just a bummer they're only beginning to realize its potential now, but hopefully the NX will have a second screen, too.
it'd have to use the gyro-assisted aim, pure analog stick aiming would be awful for that game
If your argument is "It's a great game once you get used to the control scheme", I think you've kind of missed the point on what controls in a game should be(intuitive).
just because you're so used to a certain control setup doesn't make another setup less intuitive because you have to adjust to it. that's a pretty poor argument.
FloweryMarston
Member
"controls are more precise than gyro controls" tell that to the bow and arrow minigames in oot and majora's. he may not liked the controls in star fox, but i never felt that aiming with IR or gyro were worse than analog aiming. In the remakes and remasters of zelda, i much prefer to use gyro rather than the analog.
Nemesis_
Member
So this game had the same problem as Kid Icarus did? Awesome, know to pass on it then.
If your argument is "It's a great game once you get used to the control scheme", I think you've kind of missed the point on what controls in a game should be(intuitive).
No way. It's much easier to pick up than Kid Icarus.
LegendofLex
Member
Having played a bit of Crimson Dragon, the spiritual successor to Panzer Dragoon that uses basically the exact control scheme you're asking for...it would have been a much worse game if it used dual analog.
Should have used Wii Remote aiming, instead.
DidntKnowJack
Member
Oh shit. Xater didn't like it. And as we all know - he is the final word on the subject. And shit, what do we know? We're just rabid 'defend anything' Nintendo fans.
Thanks for the pigeonhole, dude. Appreciate it.
digitalflame
Member
I haven't played SF0 yet, but Sprit Tracks' controls are fine; not sure why anyone would think they where bad.
Then again Spirit Tracks is my first and favorite Zelda so I might be biased
blue_phazon
Member
Spirit Tracks was a terrible example because se those controls worked perfectly. Especially with the puzzles and specific items (like tracing boomerang paths).
In fact, the DS Zelda games were way more fun to play than ALBW (although ALBW does everything else better)
It's superior to dual analog. Then again I played countless hours of metroid prime hunters on the DS, so I was already used to having the touch screen act as the "second analog" and could hold the system to make it comfortable.
In fact, the DS Zelda games were way more fun to play than ALBW (although ALBW does everything else better)
It's superior to dual analog. Then again I played countless hours of metroid prime hunters on the DS, so I was already used to having the touch screen act as the "second analog" and could hold the system to make it comfortable.
chrominance
Member
Did he... did he just throw shade at Kate Bush?
This is my only takeaway from the entire video.
This is my only takeaway from the entire video.
is that more Content ID bait?
Candescence
Member
Except they aren't trash, they're actually quite good. I don't even need the gamepad screen 80% of the time, and I honestly prefer it to the traditional aiming system, and I didn't need an hour to take used to it. Sure, it could be done better, but to be frank, this is better than fucking around with dual-sticks for aiming - same with Splatoon, though that game uses the second stick for quick-turning in combination with gyro, which is perfectly reasonable. It's not perfect, but being able to decouple aiming from movement and with aiming controls that are much more accurate and quicker than a stick? I'll take that anyday over the 64 style. The only way I can imagine the game being better is with a Steam Controller and a better aiming reticule to compensate for the lack of a second screen.
Seriously, anyone who thinks dual analog would be better is delusional. Dual-analog is fucking garbage.
To be fair, Nintendo has been moving away from 'gimmicky' control schemes for the most part anyway, the only other notable exceptions being Kid Icarus: Uprising (which was fantastic) and Nintendoland (though, to be fair, it was an original thing and it being a showcase of gamepad stuff was the whole point). I just think people just can't get their heads around using them properly.
Davey Cakes
Member
If Nintendo released Star Fox 64 2 (as in a sequel that plays EXACTLY like SF64) people would be complaining about that as well.
Basically, Nintendo will never win so long as they don't somehow allow for a completely standard control scheme on top of an "experimental" one. The thing is, if a game's design principles revolve around alternative control methods then it's kind of hard to nail both at the same time. If the game is designed with standard controls in mind, the motion controls will feel tacked on, and if the game is designed with motion controls in mind, then the standard controls will feel limited.
I'd agree with this. I'm playing Touch My Katamari on the Vita at the moment, and as you'd expect from the title, touch controls are the big new thing. However, at the very start of the game you're given a choice of control options and total touch control is never forced on the player. It's a little gesture, but highly appreciated.