Coffee Dog
Banned
You might not be aware, but some of them never asked for this.
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From the creators of "Mechanical Apartheid", comes...
- Thread starter Odrion
- Start date
You might not be aware, but some of them never asked for this.
Man, these guys can't help jamming both feet in their mouths, can they? Ridiculous.
Now that's funny.
Now that's funny.
Pretty much. This game totally misses the mark on the social commentary it tries to do and it comes more as insulting than representative of a real issue.
Phrozenflame500
Member
I'd argue most people don't really choose their religion, the majority stick to what their parents conditioned them into at a young age.
But anyways, you're missing the point. It's obviously not ok to be a dick towards people just because they choose certain things, it's that the artists are using terminology from real world events when the comparison is a very shallow "well they're both being oppressed i guess"
<sarcasm>Yes, that is definitely what I said.</endsarcasm>
I'm not saying they aren't. I'm saying the idea is flimsier than the current real life issues that black people are facing.
lightskintwin
Banned
Ok, those are very good points.
Let's keep it real, they use it because they think it's cool and edgy. You have to draw inspiration from somewhere. LOL
Oh, let's break it down!
1. Black people are killed and brutalized by police as part of centuries of inequality and systemic racism. Activists start the Black Lives Matter movement in an attempt to bring awareness to the plight of black citizens in American society and beyond.
2. Some people, offended by the notion that black people are arguing that black lives are important co-opt that phrase, claiming All Lives Matter. These people are ignorant and selfish.
3. A video game company unimaginatively co-opts the phrase for its video game, which is about the plight of fictional people who are cyborgs, further trivializing the original movement in an attempt to bring an unearned weight to their safe video game franchise.
All I see is someone decided since this takes place in the future, let's have the Augs use a powerful message from the past. Guess I don't give enough of a shit to be offended by something that happens in a video game. *shrug*
Tha Robbertster
Member
If I remember correctly, a lot of people got their augmentations because they lost limbs in a recent, in universe war. Yeah, you could chose to not get the best possible replacement, but who would do that?
Teletraan1
Banned
I don't have a problem drawing from real world events but the slogan is kind of tacky and is over the lines of good taste.
Hot Coldman
Banned
this shit just makes me cringe
please don't stop attempting political or social commentary in games - that's essential - but the emphasis should be on "attempt"
do better
please don't stop attempting political or social commentary in games - that's essential - but the emphasis should be on "attempt"
do better
Is point 1 even true? The protagonist himself was augmented without his cooperation.
Point 2 is irrelevant.
This is pretty bad writing, but come on, nothing offensive.
Phrozenflame500
Member
It's not a matter of being offended, it's a matter of it being lazy writing. Now if in the actual game they talk about it being a stupid comparison then maybe that'd justify it's inclusion, but considering they're using it in actual marketing materials and the fact that Human Revolution generally played their social issues pretty safe I doubt it.
Ninja Scooter
Member
It's not in the past now. The message is heavy and carries with it a lot of baggage. If you are going to include a reference to it in your futuristic fantasy game, you take all of that. Nobody is entitled to make the reference and only get good reactions. A million people are going to see that and see this game and react to it a million different ways. Some, like you, aren't going to care, some are going to think it's dumb, some are going to think it's tasteless, some are going to find it hits a little too close to home. None are necessarily wrong, but the developer needs to be prepared for that otherwise they should make up their own protest phrase for Augs that doesn't carry the same historical baggage.
Brian_FETO
Banned
Some folks seem to be missing the main issue here
No one is complaining about the thematic comparisons of oppression, etc
The issue is the re-purposing of the slogan, which directly draws a line of comparison to say "yep, it's just like that". Adding it doesn't allow them to do anything different than they could've without it. It's tacky, pointless, and makes them look worse for using it
You can have a segment of people being hated and treated cruelly/unfairly and sympathize with them, you can have that segment of people working together and starting a movement/revolution to change that, you can have them being brutalized by the police force and going without justice
You can do literally everything you want to draw parallels between the two but the second you make a direct comparison you're basically saying "yep, it's the same thing". It isn't and seeing the holes in the connection makes it worse
No one is complaining about the thematic comparisons of oppression, etc
The issue is the re-purposing of the slogan, which directly draws a line of comparison to say "yep, it's just like that". Adding it doesn't allow them to do anything different than they could've without it. It's tacky, pointless, and makes them look worse for using it
You can have a segment of people being hated and treated cruelly/unfairly and sympathize with them, you can have that segment of people working together and starting a movement/revolution to change that, you can have them being brutalized by the police force and going without justice
You can do literally everything you want to draw parallels between the two but the second you make a direct comparison you're basically saying "yep, it's the same thing". It isn't and seeing the holes in the connection makes it worse
basically
It was more of a metaphor for the plight of & resentment towards the refugees from other parts of Africa that ended up in South Africa post-apartheid.
http://www.wired.com/2009/08/xenophobia-racism-drive-alien-relocation-in-district-9/
Point 1 isn't really true.
There's even a mission in Human Revolution that involves prostitutes before forced to undergo augmentation.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
If you're drawing from horrific world events that still have a huge effect on people today then you better make sure that it actually makes sense to do so with the events you're portraying.
Dyson Industries
Banned
Who gives a shit about him or his stupid argument? Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Back on topic, these tryhards at Eidos need to try harder. Lazy writing and an even poorer analogy. Unless they're also trying to draw a parallel between augmented people going crazy and killing and black people having the potential to do the same.
Pure bollocks.
Hum a lot of augmented people are very poor in HR and non-white. Who felt forced to have augs to be able to have a job. Some were forced to against their will.
For everybody that claims that in Deus Ex universe only rich people got augmented by choice here is simple question:
Did you even played Human Revolution?
There is side mission called Rotten Business if you played you will know what it is about. If not google it and red. That is only one reference that proves that "it is about rich people that had choice" argument not valid at all in Deus Ex Universe.
Did you even played Human Revolution?
There is side mission called Rotten Business if you played you will know what it is about. If not google it and red. That is only one reference that proves that "it is about rich people that had choice" argument not valid at all in Deus Ex Universe.
They're seeing what they want to.
PsihoPerihelion
Member
Make mechanicals great again.
This clarified a lot for me, thanks. I've been looking at this, reading the thread and gradually understanding why people are pissed off about it, but this post nailed it on the head.
I wonder if it's in the game itself? What's shown in concept art pieces like this rarely make it exactly into a game without being altered in some way, but we'll see fairly soon I guess.
TurboButts
Member
Looks fine to me. Do your thing, Eidos.
Something can be art, and still be bullshit.
Appropriating the suffering of black people during Apartheid and during the current spate of police brutality and killings as a marketing tactic is fucked up, even if it's in the name of art.
ScherzoPrime
Member
Somewhat, but there were also working class or poor who had to get Augs for medical reasons who then were strung along by Neuropezyne dependency.
Still, I think this springs from a narrow definition of what racism really is. There's one form, disliking the 'other', that most people grasp, but the form which is the endemic issue that #BLM actually arises from is structural racism, that a politically empowered ethinicity is either hostile or apathetic to disempowered ethnicities who wish to exist outside of the constrains the system imposed on them causes.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I don't have much of a problem with the apartheid stuff but this feels misguided. Like they had to try and get some modern day connection in there.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Protesters don't have to be depicted as always right even if their cause is just, so it just adds to the realism that some protesters in this universe will have some poor judgement in their slogans.
LOL That's very kind of you but I doubt that level of authenticity is there.
chaobreaker
Member
Like I said before, my beef with Eidos trying to co-opt real like social issues into their game isn't inherently a bad thing. How they implement it, on the other hand, is questionable at best. It's literally just a background dressing to all the cool corporate espionage and conspiracy theory shit of the main plot. Adam never gets into the thick of the issues of augmented people beyond one sidequest with the Chinese prostitutes.
I just want them to put more effort into it, that's all.
I just want them to put more effort into it, that's all.
Boy. It's like someone went "OK, how do we get the consumers to understand that this game revolves around oppression and revolution!", looked at maybe two or three news websites or articles, and came to the meeting with this brilliant idea.
To the people here saying that it's OK, there's an inherent lack of depth in using something like this. They went for the lowest hanging fruit. I'm all for games to begin tackling bigger issues, but, uh, they have to have better writing first. You can definitely use the cyber punk themes that Deus Ex uses to represent an analogy of real world issues. But there's an art and tact to it that's not present here.
Um, not sure if that's what they were going for pal..
To the people here saying that it's OK, there's an inherent lack of depth in using something like this. They went for the lowest hanging fruit. I'm all for games to begin tackling bigger issues, but, uh, they have to have better writing first. You can definitely use the cyber punk themes that Deus Ex uses to represent an analogy of real world issues. But there's an art and tact to it that's not present here.
Um, not sure if that's what they were going for pal..
lucebuce12
Member
The "Mechanical Apartheid" line was a bit pushing it but they could still have gotten away with it IMO.
This is just...... bad. I can't believe they thought this was a good thing to release.
This is just...... bad. I can't believe they thought this was a good thing to release.
It would be pretty interesting and subversive if the actual game explored false equivalences between discrimination against augmentation (expensive, usually voluntary, potentially associated with privilege and status) and historically oppressed groups who had absolutely no choice in the matter.
Not counting on it, though.
SJRB
Gold Member
..I don't understand this at all. The conflict of augmented vs unaugmented people is literally everywhere. In fact, it's as subtle as a brick to the face. Every npc conversation, billboards, news items, half the e-mails you hack, almost every mission revolves around augmentation and its ethics in some way or form.
ScherzoPrime
Member
I think it's also a bit problematic because DE presents its issues as morally grey. Which of course is fine for its setting, but it'd be like saying "who weeps for the poor southern white people" when you go out of your way to link it to the oppression of blacks.
Like, I don't find it personally upsetting, it's just really dumb and hackneyed to me.
Like, I don't find it personally upsetting, it's just really dumb and hackneyed to me.
If anything, that just makes it more true to life. People are incredibly tacky. It's dumb, but dumb like real life is dumb. Kind of like that scene in Captain America: Hot Coldman, where Captain America is writing down major events and historical figures he's missed in the past 50 years, and you can see "Steve Jobs" written on there, and it's dumb, but in a true to life way. Of course the kind of person who won't shut up about his iPad and his MacBook would mention Steve Jobs rather than, say, the Apartheid, which was a thing that happened while Captain Freedom was a meat popsicle.
Similarly, someone earlier in the thread criticized the world of Deus Ex for having augmentation themed cereal and everything. Yeah, that sure is implausibly dumb. Implausibly dumb like Star Wars: The Force Awakens mascara, or a Doritos video game pope.
On the other hand, it seems churlish to compare the horrible systematic oppression of an impoverished black workforce for no valid moral justification to the horrible systematic oppression of robot dudes because of that one time they all rose up as one and started chanting nursery rhymes, banging their heads against the walls, and indiscriminately slaughtering people.
And let's not forget that Digital Apartheid wasn't the first time a weird race thing happened in the history of The Chronicles Of Jensen: Escape From Sci-Fi Racism. There was also Letitia. I bet you all tried to forget her. Well I didn't forget her. And if I can't forget her, neither can you.
So I guess what I'm saying here is that we should judge the many seemingly dumb things some people did on a case by case basis instead of making lazy blanket statements? Maybe all of them aren't actually dumb? Some of them are definitely dumb, though. Some of them are SO dumb, you guys. Especially Letitia. Sheeeeeit.
Aye, "post-apartheid" would have been more accurate. Point still stands.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
In the end of the day one of the defining traits of cyberpunk is "edgy AF". If you are not rolling your eyes a bit then it feels like unauthentic cyberpunk.
Augs are not an ethnicity.
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