-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PS4 PRO: for best IQ (Native 4k + HDR + 60 HZ + 4:4:4) 2160p-YUV420 or 2160p-RGB?
- Thread starter PLASTICA-MAN
- Start date
Posted in another thread, but think this one is more correct:
Not sure which of the PS4 Pro threads is best for this.
I bought a Samsung UN40KU6290. Only HDMI 1 takes input of 60Hz 4:4:4 and HDR.
I have it as my monitor for my PC from my 1060. I have a PSVR with a PS4 Pro.
How do I have all 3 inputs going into HDMI 1 without manually plugging in and out the cables into the TV directly/swapping cables with PSVR/PS4 Pro?
Here's an image of what I think I need to do... assuming the switcher/splitter does HDR 4:4:4 60HZ etc. and doesn't introduce debilitating input lag (especially for PSVR).
Edit: It seems like my TV doesn't have wide color gamut and HDR might be way less impressive than on other TVs anyways... hmmm maybe I just keep setup with PSVR passthrough into a second input and not worry about
Or will I have issues with other features doing it through PSVR?
Not sure which of the PS4 Pro threads is best for this.
I bought a Samsung UN40KU6290. Only HDMI 1 takes input of 60Hz 4:4:4 and HDR.
I have it as my monitor for my PC from my 1060. I have a PSVR with a PS4 Pro.
How do I have all 3 inputs going into HDMI 1 without manually plugging in and out the cables into the TV directly/swapping cables with PSVR/PS4 Pro?
Here's an image of what I think I need to do... assuming the switcher/splitter does HDR 4:4:4 60HZ etc. and doesn't introduce debilitating input lag (especially for PSVR).
Edit: It seems like my TV doesn't have wide color gamut and HDR might be way less impressive than on other TVs anyways... hmmm maybe I just keep setup with PSVR passthrough into a second input and not worry about
Or will I have issues with other features doing it through PSVR?Posted in another thread, but think this one is more correct:
Not sure which of the PS4 Pro threads is best for this.
I bought a Samsung UN40KU6290. Only HDMI 1 takes input of 60Hz 4:4:4 and HDR.
I have it as my monitor for my PC from my 1060. I have a PSVR with a PS4 Pro.
How do I have all 3 inputs going into HDMI 1 without manually plugging in and out the cables into the TV directly/swapping cables with PSVR/PS4 Pro?
Here's an image of what I think I need to do... assuming the switcher/splitter does HDR 4:4:4 60HZ etc. and doesn't introduce debilitating input lag (especially for PSVR).
Edit: It seems like my TV doesn't have wide color gamut and HDR might be way less impressive than on other TVs anyways... hmmm maybe I just keep setup with PSVR passthrough into a second input and not worry about
It seems like no one has a perfect solution for this yet, as far as I am aware of.
Essentially this kind of switch configuration can work, but the PSVR breakout box has to be powered off completely when not in use.
Jatrid
Neo Member
I have a KS8000 set
Did some tests following your settings and the last bit here;
Resolution: 4K:60Hz
Color Space: BT. 2020 YCbCr (forced YUV420 from PS4 Video Output Test)
Pixel Depth: 12-bit
RGB Range: Limited/Full (Doesn't matter the TV makes no changes in Normal/Low same as Pro, I am assuming TV auto picked despite me following your guideline changing TV Black Level setting manually, same for Pro no changes)
That's what my Denon AVR-X1200 info said.
TLZ
Banned
Thank you. So I am on the right track somehow.
Yes our Samsungs don't allow us to change Black Level when HDR is on. Then trying to change that on the Pro makes no difference.
Non HDR is fine but why is limited better? Isn't that limiting the range?
Thank you very much, much appreciated.
One question : in yuv420, you say that the PS4 displays in limited rgb.
But the black level on the display is greyed out as the display is receiving yuv, not rgb. So I don't understand how rgb limited vs full should have any impact on the picture for hdr games.
And as the black level on my tv is greyed out, do I really need to change it to limited ?
On the PS4, there is a setting for rgb range. I set it to full. But you say that in hdr mode, this "Full" setting is bypassed and the PS4 displays in limited range ?
So should I set this setting to Automatic (and same thing on the tv) ?
Thanks !!
Are people listening to what I am saying? Why use 12 or 8 bit 4:2:2 when Hdr is 10 bit 4:2:0 ? Why even use a 12 bit when all 4k commercial tv are 10 bits you are getting banding some can't notice some are in denial but it's there as all commercial 4k tvs are 10 bit. For a 10 bit tv to try and show a 12 bit signal the tv must dither. Some Tv's dither better than others hence why some see and some don't. For Non HDR gaming choose whatever you like but people for HDR YUV420 is correct settings.. Dunno if people need some type of bragging right saying hey my set can do 12 bits but please use the right settings as HDR10 is 4:2:0 Chroma ..
Very interesting that you are reporting a 12-bit signal for YUV420. Why would we see a difference, I don't know. It is reported as 10-bit on my AVR.
Sorry if there is any confusion about the guideline. Here is what I was trying to express:
With RGB range set to Auto from the PS4, the signal map will be in RGB limited. The TV should also be in this mode. My TV does not grey it out, so my concern was that people may try to force "Full" instead of limited, as it should be. Your TV is displaying properly in limited.
Simply mapping to the same range, so this is desired. If you force the TV to full (You can on a Sony), it would be washed out.
If it is greyed out, then it is most likely functioning properly in limited. Yes, that is correct when in HDR or YUV mode RGB range (my reccomnedation is to just leave this at Auto) choosing limited or full makes no difference anyway, it outputs limited.
My AVR does not report the pixel depth for this input, only reports "---" which is why I think it may be 12-bit. The AVR does properly report 8-bit for all other 8-bit sources.
Not sure if you are referring to me or not, but I am not in denial about the banding lol, I am literally inches from the set and it undetectable when switching between 422 and 420. I imagine the set is doing a great job of dithering so I am not concerned with it, I have checked several games and see no issues, so for me the easiest thing to do is to leave it in auto so I get RGB 444 when I am not in HDR mode. Certainly not bragging, just providing some feedback for folks who have the same set.
No not you but there are others that I know their Tvs will show banding.. Like I stated some Tv's do dithering better than others. Very strange that guy with YUV420 12 bits.. Hdr is 10 bits why is the ps4 pro trying to even cram a 12 bit signal into 10 bit sets.. Your set does have banding but to good dithering might be hard to spot and look to naked eye as none is present. I assure you it's there as all top end 4k Tvs are 10 bits. You have some 8 bit 4k tvs and when they do HDR10 there is a difference compared to a native 10 bit panel.. Some will dither good and look close but put them side by side and you will see the difference.. Same here with those using 12 bit signal it emulating 12 bits . I think the Dolby vision sets with HDR10 will be fine(good dithering hard to see banding with naked eye) and the new Sony z9..
Don´t know but why not use automatic? I have tried it several times and it always switches to YUV420 when a game supports HDR.
I am not sure why some are reporting 12-bit for 420 and other are reporting 8-bit for 422. It would be very odd if this could vary depending on the set.
Hopefully we will hear more people chiming in with accurate HDMI information.
If anyone has other methods to determine the bit depth, I would like to hear those as well.
Thats exactly why we are having this discussion. In auto mode, the PS4 switches to 12-bit 422, not 10-bit 420. This can leading to banding and other issues on some displays.
Double check that when you have an HDR game playing in the PS4: Settings -> Video Output Settings -> Video Output Information... I think you will find it is changing to 422 during HDR playback.
Will do that later but I could swear I saw it changed to 420 last night (LG E6).
We are definitely hearing some conflicting reports, so it would be great to hear back on how this goes this evening.
And so do we need to put the limited / full rgb setting on auto ? Both on tv and PS4 pro ?
Dzab
Member
When in HDR/gamemode mode, backlight max, brightness around 40, contrast 100, colour left at default, or 55. Smart LED is high. Dynamic contrast is generally low or off. Off certainly has less pop but when it's higher it seems to make the blacks too dark and looses detail a bit. Colour tone is warm2. Gamma is at 0. Colour space is at auto (latest firmware fixed the tracking issue I believe).
It does not. It switches to yuv422, not yuv420.
Futurevoid
Member
Auto switches to 4:2:2 on my B6 and I definitely get banding. It's at it's worst in Second Son.
DJ Lushious
Member
I know I'm not listening to you, because you're wrong. 4:2:2 does NOT automatically mean 12-bit. And you keep peddling this idea, even after I called you out on it before. Chroma sampling is independent of color depth (bits). I can have an 8-bit picture with 4:2:2, 4:2:0, or 4:4:4 chroma sampling.
So, stop.
Try to take it off of game mode and see if that fixes the problem. The way I understand it, game mode disables some of your TV's visual settings to help increase latency and could potentially be the culprit.
I see online that the recommended brightness for your tv is 45. Perhaps bumping that up would eliminate the crushed blacks. I would leave dynamic contrast off. Did you set your tv up with a test pattern to ensure you have that set appropriately?
Edit: I see you are crushing blacks with dynamic contrast on. I feel colors have the same vibrancy as SDR mode with the dynamic range of HDR as long as color space is set to Native when displaying HDR. I found that dynamic contrast looked more like the torch mode they use in stores on my TV.
Auto can be ok, unless you see banding. It will vary from set to set. I don't see any banding with the Sony X800D.
Well thats a bummer. You will need to force YUV420 for HDR enabled games if you haven't already done so.
As long as you are not seeing color banding, it should be fine.
Dzab
Member
Did try that but thanks. I'm gonna keep fiddling.
I'll try bumping it back up (it was around 50 before but I'll try 45), thanks.
I haven't used a test pattern, what's the best way to go about that?
From what I understand, you want to set color space to Auto, which allows the HDR to use the colors however the metadata tells it to. Setting it to native sets it to a fixed setting not necessarily tweaked for HDR.
As far as calibrating your TV, what I did was find what the supposed perfectly calibrated settings were, watched some movies that I've watched a million times and tweaked from there to what I felt looked best.
excaliburps
Press - MP1st.com
I have the color space set to custom for REC.709 content since my tv has been professionally calibrated. In uncharted 4 I flipped between HDR and SDR to look at the difference in color. On SDR which my tv is calibrated for, uncharted 4 was as vibrant as it has ever been. In HDR in the custom color space it was quite dull. There was no difference I could see between Auto and Native in this game other than both made the colors look just like the SDR version with the benefits of HDR's dynamic range and detail in bright and dark areas of the screen. Do you have a link that explains the benefits of auto vs Native? Recommended settings online for newer samsungs indicate that Native is the correct choice.
JordanBlack68
Member
Tried Auto on my Samsung KS8000(uk) and it looked awful compared to the Native option
![[Asmodean]](/data/avatars/m/123/123312.jpg?1526393694){kind=avatar}
[Asmodean]
Member
Honestly. I really don't think auto color space is working correctly. I'm not sure if it's on the PS4 side of things or the TVs need a firmware update for HDR gaming meta or something.
But auto color space seems to look the same, regardless of the game, or SDR, HDR, etc. It simply looks drab. While this works fine for 'realistic style games'. it does the same thing for all games, regardless of them being animated style, and intended to look colorful.
So far, I've been switching to auto for the games that suit it, and using native for others.
Anyone else really tired of sub-par 'auto' settings on electronics? lol, c'mon, at this stage, if you put an auto setting somewhere. it should be working as intended. With smart this, and smart that bs plastered everywhere ;p
OmegaDL50
Member
It is confusing as hell.
I have JU6800, a Samsung 4K tv that is 8bit but somehow had quantum dots (reason why I took it and also chose the 50" model since it has a VA panel unlike 55" which is IPS) and for the Xbox One S it passes all the HDR tests. PQI is 1400.
So not an 10bit panel but somehow can do somewhat HDR and passes 10 bit tests? hmmm
(This isn't my pic, just taken from AV forums JU6800 owner's thread).
For me HDR looks better than SDR on Uncharted 4 (I do use dynamic contrast set to medium though) on the regular PS4 for now so not too sure what settings I'll pick for the PS4 pro, guess I'll have some fiddling to do.
All in all, sounds like they jumped the gun on HDR, at the same time, I can be satisfied with what I've got but there's no way I would pay top euro for the high end models when they might be irrelevant in a year or so due to not being fully compliant.
I can't find the JU6800 in US markets. It must be under a different model number in the US.
If in auto and ur set switches to YUV420 then ur good. Some people are not having that result though.
No this is only on SDR that dynamic contrast past low crushes blacks.. HDR its the exact opposite. Over on AVS forums we have tested this to death.. Dynamic contrast on HDR brings out dark details and brightens image.. Med is recommended setting high is ok if you don't get blowouts. The sony tv on HDR mode automatically enable dynamic contrast BTW.
please keep up with this thread.. You can't turn deep colour off people are reporting their AVR as saying its 12 bits @ 4:2:2 ... Regardless HDR 10 is 4:2:0 not 4:2:2 does not matter if 8 bits 10 bits or 12 bits.. HDR10 use 4:2:0 chroma so any other setting is not correct and metadata will not display as it was intended.. For Non HDR stuff people are free to use what looks best for em... Anyways I am trying to help people not to beat my chest.. Your are not helping people by saying 4:2:2 is 10 bits regardless its wrong for HDR content.
Dzab
Member
Yeah I've been looking at AVS forums too, that's the strange thing - on Ratchet and Clank (HDR) if I put dynamic contrast on high it seems to make it just too dark. Medium looked okay with HDR though, I'll give it another try.
The other issue is as we've discussed before, the fact that deep colour output is forced and I get bad colour banding.
if High gives issue just use MED.. We all just use med anyways only the odd content has no issues with high.
This just seems crazy, everything I have read days don't use dynamic contrast. Can you link to analysis where it doesnt crush/clip in HDR?
TLZ
Banned
I actually use medium dynamic contrast for Netflix hdr and it looks very good.
family_guy
Member
It's simple, if your TV has issues with banding at auto then change it to 4:2:0. Most of the people with the issue are the ones that have Samsung TVs.
[Asmodean]
Member
On regular SDR content, dynamic contrast is just a post-processing contrast effect (and looks pretty ugly on most content, imo). But on HDR content, at least on the samsung ks series. It's completely different.
Honestly, I don't know if samsung got lazy, or though another setting would confuse people. But the dynamic contrast setting with HDR content affects the backlight and other hw parameters of the TV. It's not just a post-processing effect like it is otherwise.
Honestly, I don't know if samsung got lazy, or though another setting would confuse people. But the dynamic contrast setting with HDR content affects the backlight and other hw parameters of the TV. It's not just a post-processing effect like it is otherwise.
People with the LG OLED are also experiencing banding. I don't the KS8000 users are having banding.
[Asmodean];224358957 said:
I agree. I set up a 4K UHD Samsung for my mother in law and damned if it did not seem as if low/medium dynamic contrast SHOULD have been on by default when HDR was enabled.
TLZ
Banned
Can you please post a picture of the banding you see?
If it's just a Samsung thing then I'm suspecting the culprit being the greyed out black levels option on tv in hdr. Could that wrong setting possibly cause banding?
TLZ
Banned
I had absolutely no idea about this. Interesting info indeed.
Thanks for confirming mate.
[Asmodean];224358957 said:
More interesting info. Deebatch said the same and fiddling with it does make it look better. I'd never use High dynamic contrast though. It doesn't look good to me. Low or Medium are good enough.
Go to AVS forums and go to ur tv thread and they will confirm it.. Reacts different with HDR
It is confusing as hell.
I have JU6800, a Samsung 4K tv that is 8bit but somehow had quantum dots (reason why I took it and also chose the 50" model since it has a VA panel unlike 55" which is IPS) and for the Xbox One S it passes all the HDR tests. PQI is 1400.
So not an 10bit panel but somehow can do somewhat HDR and passes 10 bit tests? hmmm
(This isn't my pic, just taken from AV forums JU6800 owner's thread).
For me HDR looks better than SDR on Uncharted 4 (I do use dynamic contrast set to medium though) on the regular PS4 for now so not too sure what settings I'll pick for the PS4 pro, guess I'll have some fiddling to do.
All in all, sounds like they jumped the gun on HDR, at the same time, I can be satisfied with what I've got but there's no way I would pay top euro for the high end models when they might be irrelevant in a year or so due to not being fully compliant.
OK that Tv has very good dithering for 10 bits. The Tv can process a 10 bit image Via dithering even though its 8 bit.. Through dithering it simulates the missing colours and does a good job very hard to see the difference. This is why it can do HDR even though it's 8 bits.. Native 10 bit panel will always look better but it's close.
It's what I've read from guys on the AVS forums (that know way more about this than me) for the Samsung set I own. Whether the AUTO setting sets it to native during SDR viewing, I don't know. I was talking solely about HDR which I've heard auto is the preferred choice.
My TV is essentially a 2015 set, so if there is new information beyond that, I stand corrected.
I have also read in this forum fwiw that the Samsung color space set to auto may not be working properly, and to use native for the set from proper BT.2020 during HDR.