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The last guardian is one hell of a frustrating game

kittoo

kittoo

Cretinously credulous
I really want to like it. I like the setting, the aesthetics very much. I also like the verticality aspect. But by God, this game is frustrating.
The controls and camera are pretty bad, and the bad AI (even if intentional as Trico is an animal after all) just adds to it. Sometimes I keep giving commands and wait (and hope) that Trico will do what I want it to do. At one time it kept going to the wrong place for almost 10 minutes. I wanted to smash the controller in the wall.
Then there is the camera. It in itself is pretty bad, but add the abhorrent frame rate (and I am the kinda guy who rarely feels bad frame rate as long as camera and controls are fine) and weird ass smoothing of camera movement and it's just a clusterfuck.

Oh and the controls. I just do not feel that the kid is going where I am trying to take it, especially when on Trico. I am trying to take him to Trico's tail, but he will rather enter his ass. I will be trying to make him hang on a ledge, but he will rather do that 'omg I am about to fall over the cliff hang on balance' animation. I will try to make him walk towards a certain place, but he will rather do that weird 'looks like running but jumping at the same place' animation. Oh and when the guards catch him and we finally get him free (by mashing random buttons lol), he will stand up and then fall again once, always, making the guard almost catch him again. It's annoying.

I am at a puzzle where I have to throw a barrel across several gaps (and quickly otherwise it rolls off and I have to start over again) and the game is really testing my limits. I don't remember when I cursed last time on a game.
 
N

Nick

Junior Member
This was my 2016 GOTY, but I agree with you. The water sections in particular were beyond frustrating. Getting Trico to do anything you asked of him was a lesson in frustration and anger.

Still worth it, though.
 
mcz117chief

mcz117chief

Member
giphy.gif



Prepare for the defenders to tell you that all that is completely intentional :)
 
G

graybot

Member
I persevered with the game. For more than half the game it was mostly a chore with some good bits

But the last 1/3rd is brilliant and I was delighted I stuck with it
 
G

graybot

Member
And whatever anyone does, do not say it was a commercial failure or mention development hell.

I learned the hard way
 
M

matrix-cat

Member
kittoo said:
I am at a puzzle where I have to throw a barrel across several gaps (and quickly otherwise it rolls off and I have to start over again) and the game is really testing my limits. I don't remember when I cursed last time on a game.
Click to expand...

These parts of the game really made me wonder what the designers were thinking. The boy's controls feel like you're shouting directions to him through a phone with a bad connection at the best of times, and throwing physics interactions on top of that is like some exquisite torture Clive Barker would have thought up.

And, yeah, it's not possible to climb on Trico without at least stopping by his butthole. Most of the time the boy just climbs straight in there no matter where you're pointing the analogue stick. It's like a magnet.
 
G

Guymelef

Member
Game with an active OT and new threads about it keeps coming.
It's your opinion so important to deserve its own thread?
 
L

liquidtmd

Banned
mcz117chief said:
giphy.gif



Prepare for the defenders to tell you that all that is completely intentional :)
Click to expand...

I don't think it's that as such.

It just feels the whole 'TLG has janky tech issues' has been very, very widely covered on GAF. Many times. Multiple threads and widespread throughout the OT. We know. I think even large parts of GAF that love it, including myself, accept that.

It simply either becomes a case of 'accept it or it isn't the game for you'. Seeing its tech issues become a stick to beat the game over and over and over again with becomes tiring.

If consistently performing games are your minimal standard with A1 control schemes, TLG isn't for you.
 
L

LowlySmokeGuy

Banned
Didn't have an issue with any of those things.

Worst thing about the game for me is the tutorial stuff showing up for more than half the game.
 
E

EloquentM

aka Mannny
I still need to play this game. Hearing it's frustrating is disappointing. How would you guys compare it to SotC


Guymelef said:
Game with an active OT and new threads about it keeps coming.
It's your opinion so important to deserve its own thread?
Click to expand...
Why don't you let the mods decide that? It's not really your job.
 
B

Benzychenz

Member
I don't think anything you said is wrong, but it just didn't bother me. Most things in the game didn't require too much precision, and if you do fail at something the punishment is never too severe.

The water section that frustrates a lot of people went smoothly for me though, Trico did everything I need him to right away.
 
B

BenedictBlakbrn

Member
Very frustrating but I loved it. The experience more than made up for its faults. There were also some things I discovered that helped a lot, like giving orders while riding on Trico's back and not atop his head gives much better results, something about directional awareness when you point on his head seems bugged. His back is also where he throws you when he wants you to ride on him if you idle around and he wants to take you somewhere, so it seems that's the intended ride location.
 
N

NightShift

Member
One thing I gotta defend is Trico's AI. It isn't bad, it's actually really impressive considering the small enironments he is walking in. Of course it isn't perfect and there were a few times were I had no idea what he was doing.

The trick is to make sure he is reading your commands. He has various head movements like shaking his head and leaning his head to the side to tell you he has no idea what you're trying to tell him. You should also never spam commands.
 
S

Skeletos311

Junior Member
I really didn't have much problem with controls or anything. I guess I just knew what to expect, having just played Ico and SotC Collection before TLG. I thought it was a great game. I love the design of the castle so much.
 
mcz117chief

mcz117chief

Member
liquidtmd said:
I don't think it's that as such.

It just feels the whole 'TLG has janky tech issues' has been very, very widely covered on GAF. Many times. Multiple threads and widespread throughout the OT. We know. I think even large parts of GAF that love it, including myself, accept that.

It simply either becomes a case of 'accept it or it isn't the game for you'. Seeing its tech issues become a stick to beat the game over and over and over again with becomes tiring.

If consistently performing games are your minimal standard with A1 control schemes, TLG isn't for you.
Click to expand...

I finished it and overall liked it, as a platformer with puzzles, the emotional thing went right over my head. But there are people here that will tell you that the boy controlling horribly is on purpose because he is no Raiden and Trico is dumb as a rock on purpose because animals in real life glitch out a lot too.

EloquentM said:
I still need to play this game. Hearing it's frustrating is disappointing. How would you guys compare it to SotC
Click to expand...

SotC > Ico > Yaiba > The Last Guardian

SotC is absolutely phenomenal and there are very few games that can compare. I had almost no issues at all playing and finishing SotC many many many times (the only real issue I have with the game is the fact that the most annoying Colossus is in the game TWICE). Controls are better, camera is better, story is far superior as wall as music. But as with everything, different people like different things, some consider SotC absolute hot garbage and others thing The Last Guardian is the greatest game ever made.
 
W

Wind's Howling

Member
NightShift said:
One thing I gotta defend is Trico's AI. It isn't bad, it's actually really impressive considering the small enironments he is walking in. Of course it isn't perfect and there were a few times were I had no idea what he was doing.

The trick is to make sure he is reading your commands. He has various head movements like shaking his head and leaning his head to the side to tell you he has no idea what you're trying to tell him. You should also never spam commands.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this. The entire environment and level design screamed last gen, but Trico's AI is a wonder to observe. In the later part of the game you actually get to care about Trico in a way that no other game actually made me feel about a gaming character.
 
S

senahorse

Member
Agree with OP, the controls and camera and the temperamental AI made this an incredibly frustrating experience, if not for those technical issues it would be in my GOTY top 3, instead it's not even in the top 10. The highs hit really high for me but it was just constantly dragged down by the infuriating technical issues.
 
mcz117chief

mcz117chief

Member
Rivyn said:
Pretty much this. The entire environment and level design screamed last gen, but Trico's AI is a wonder to observe. In the later part of the game you actually get to care about Trico in a way that no other game actually made me feel about a gaming character.
Click to expand...

I think Griss explains it the best when it comes to loving Trico and its AI.

At that stage I had stopped calling him 'Turrico' and started calling him 'You cunt', which shows that the game had lost me emotionally through the frustration of the gameplay. source
Click to expand...
 
L

Langdon Alger

Banned
kittoo said:
I am at a puzzle where I have to throw a barrel across several gaps (and quickly otherwise it rolls off and I have to start over again) and the game is really testing my limits. I don't remember when I cursed last time on a game.
Click to expand...

I quit playing at the second barrel throwing puzzle. It was absolutely infuriating. I've never been more frustrated at a video game.
 
E

EloquentM

aka Mannny
BenedictBlakbrn said:
It's very different, much more akin to Ico. It's like Ico if one of the SotC guardians was under your partial control.
Click to expand...

mcz117chief said:
I finished it and overall liked it, as a platformer with puzzles, the emotional thing went right over my head. But there are people here that will tell you that the boy controlling horribly is on purpose because he is no Raiden and Trico is dumb as a rock on purpose because animals in real life glitch out a lot too.



SotC > Ico > Yaiba > The Last Guardian

SotC is absolutely phenomenal and there are very few games that can compare. I had almost no issues at all playing and finishing SotC many many many times (the only real issue I have with the game is the fact that the most annoying Colossus is in the game TWICE). Controls are better, camera is better, story is far superior as wall as music. But as with everything, different people like different things, some consider SotC absolute hot garbage and others thing The Last Guardian is the greatest game ever made.
Click to expand...
Thank you =}
 
J

John Paul v2

Neo Member
I brute forced my way through TLG without realising you could combine the action buttons when calling to make more specific commands. Some jumps could take several minutes to make.

While it's true that I'm a stubborn moron, the tutorial could have explained that mechanic a lot better. And the fact that Trico eventually does the necessary action on his own meant that I was never forced to learn.

I still loved it, even though at times I fucking hated it. This game certainly made me experience the full range of emotions.
 
F

Famassu

Member
I haven't played this through fully, but I'm maybe 6-7 hours in and so far haven't had any frustration with Trico. There have been a few times when it's taken a couple of extra attempts to get Trico to do what I want it to do, but I don't really find that frustrating and this whole "he never does what I'm trying to get him to do and that's super frustrating" thing seems like it's partially to do with some gamers just sucking at playing the game or not being very good at understanding how to best command Trico. I mean, some of it comes from not having direct control over Trico, which is a design decision and I understand not everyone likes that kind of dependancy on AI & when they have to repeat things because the AI isn't getting their intentions, but it also seems that some people just suck at playing the game, which just adds to the potential frustration levels.



EDIT: Also don't understand the camera & control complaints. The kid controls just fine for the kind of game it is. If this was some Mario game, I'd understand the complaints but the game hardly requires that kind of precision/responsiveness/fluidity of controls/movement. The kid feeling a bit heavy to control fits the somewhat realistic style they are attempting with all the movement in the game.

Haven't had issues with the camera so far either.
 
mcz117chief

mcz117chief

Member
EloquentM said:
Thank you =}
Click to expand...

Like, if you enjoyed the open steppe, fleet horse, falcons at your wrist and the wind in your hair then you won't find much of that in The Last Guardian. If you enjoy puzzles like the ones in Ico then you will get plenty of those in TLG. Luckily TLG requires almost no precision so even with the wonky controls you can't really screw up much. Also, very little combat initiative on your part and no characters.
 
T

TrutaS

Member
The gameplay is beautiful in that tge animations look so real, and Trico is just majestic in how natural he feels. But they push it to limits where tge realism turn to deep frustration and forces you to draw comparisons to games that favour gameplay to style. Same thing happened with Ico, which was also very very annoying at parts.

Still it's a beautiful story and the bond between creature and human can be felt and is quite special and worth it.
 
Popsickles

Popsickles

Member
I really don't understand how this game can be so polarising. My only complaints were that there is no walk for the boy he only runs and sometimes the camera is funky. If you are not only facing but have the camera facing the direction you want TRICO to go and do not spam commands he did everything I told him. I think if you pet him often he will respond easier. Part of me feels that people do not like not being in control and have no patience which then leads to them exacerbating their own frustration.
 
M

Magic Mushroom

Member
Famassu said:
I haven't played this through fully, but I'm maybe 6-7 hours in and so far haven't had any frustration with Trico. There have been a few times when it's taken a couple of extra attempts to get Trico to do what I want it to do, but I don't really find that frustrating and this whole "he never does what I'm trying to get him to do and that's super frustrating" thing seems like it's partially to do with some gamers just sucking at playing the game or not being very good at understanding how to best command Trico. I mean, some of it comes from not having direct control over Trico, which is a design decision and I understand not everyone likes that kind of dependancy on AI & when they have to repeat things because the AI isn't getting their intentions, but it also seems that some people just suck at playing the game, which just adds to the potential frustration levels.



EDIT: Also don't understand the camera & control complaints. The kid controls just fine for the kind of game it is. If this was some Mario game, I'd understand the complaints but the game hardly requires that kind of precision/responsiveness/fluidity of controls/movement. The kid feeling a bit heavy to control fits the somewhat realistic style they are attempting with all the movement in the game.

Haven't had issues with the camera so far either.
Click to expand...

I've played through the entire game and felt basically the same. I thought it was a fantastic game, the second best of 2016.
 
V

Vexii

Member
I'm very much a gaf n00b, but are the OTs not the best place for these kinds of posts?

In response however, I feel that it has that Team Ico jank which gives it a certain charm. It'd be a much more boring game if Trico DIDN'T faff about and do what he wants. The frustration is very recognisable to anyone who has a pet, I imagine.
 
mcz117chief

mcz117chief

Member
Hoho for breakfast said:
Mandatory viewing for everyone that feels this way
Click to expand...

From this day forward, I will only ever call the beast in TLG "Yugioh" :D

Vexii said:
In response however, I feel that it has that Team Ico jank which gives it a certain charm. It'd be a much more boring game if Trico DIDN'T faff about and do what he wants. The frustration is very recognisable to anyone who has a pet, I imagine.
Click to expand...

Agro in Shadow of the Colossus has amazing AI. She always finds the right path, never gets in the way and you can always rely on her. Back in the day I was absolutely amazed how well Agro works, one of the greatest AI companions in gaming. Ico and Yorda both control well and Yorda responds quickly and accurately to calls. Team Ico is not synonymous with janky games.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
I actually found the protagonist's controls and the camera to be the worst thing about the game. Didn't have too much trouble with Trico. Sure, he slowed me down but that didn't frustrate me, my own movement did. TLG was not a good game honestly.
 
E

EloquentM

aka Mannny
mcz117chief said:
Like, if you enjoyed the open steppe, fleet horse, falcons at your wrist and the wind in your hair then you won't find much of that in The Last Guardian. If you enjoy puzzles like the ones in Ico then you will get plenty of those in TLG. Luckily TLG requires almost no precision so even with the wonky controls you can't really screw up much. Also, very little combat initiative on your part and no characters.
Click to expand...
Hmm don't know if want. May just borrow it from my friend tbh
 
TheSadRanger

TheSadRanger

Banned
I have the same frustrations as many, but the last 2-3 hours of the game completely makes up for it.

It's not as good as SotC, but the ending sequence in TLG is that good.

If it weren't for the final act, I would be on board with the haters.
 
mcz117chief

mcz117chief

Member
EloquentM said:
Hmm don't know if want. May just borrow it from my friend tbh
Click to expand...

The game isn't as expensive as it came out but definitely give it a try, you might be one of those who will absolutely love it. If you have the chance to play it for free first via your friend then you absolutely must at least try it.
 
J

Joelstinton14

Member
I didn't have any issues commanding Trico at all. I kind of wished i did a live stream just to kind of prove that.

I found simply just standing by the object i need to scale and pressing (R1?, Forgotten already) was enough for trico to do what he needed to do. Sometimes Trico would need to manoeuvre into position, but you will soon notice the animation cues to realise that you are successful.

If it helps the commands are directional prompts. Standing on his head and stand in the direction you want to go and directionally point in that direction. The same goes for the face buttons, R1 and triangle in the direction you are facing will make him jump up.
 
xrnzaaas

xrnzaaas

Member
Yeah the controls are pretty awful. I don't care about speedrun trophies but if I did I would be screaming at the game, because sometimes it takes many attempts to do a simple task with the main character or for Trico to react to a command or to move where you want him to be.
 
M

myco666

Member
Trico tends to be a bit unresponsive at times but I felt like it would do pretty much everything I told him to. There are couple of spots where Trico will decide to go to opposite direction for some reason though.

Controls were perfectly fine imo. Felt like the kid had some actual weight and the animations were amazing.

Fahzgoolin said:
The story is illogical and nonsensical too.

Huge disappointment.
Click to expand...

It is? I thought the story was good.
 
J

Joelstinton14

Member
Imp the Dimp said:
I actually found the protagonist's controls and the camera to be the worst thing about the game. Didn't have too much trouble with Trico. Sure, he slowed me down but that didn't frustrate me, my own movement did. TLG was not a good game honestly.
Click to expand...

Nope, it was't a good game. It was an amazing one :)

It did take me a while to get used to the boys movement though, a good couple of hours actually. I just wanted to slow down and walk, but the more i played the more it made sense why they didn't do that. Any lingering desire to slow down and walk had left me after i got the ability to properly issues commands to trico.
 
M

Magic Mushroom

Member
EloquentM said:
Hmm don't know if want. May just borrow it from my friend tbh
Click to expand...

Definitely make up your own mind. Not everybody feels the same. I think it's a special game - one of the most memorable of this gen - that deserves to be played. It was also Game of the Year from EDGE, Easy Allies and The Guardian, so it's not a weird opinion to have. Give it a shot, as Ueda's games are one of a kind and this industry would be worse without them.
 
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