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After reading this, only retards will liken Umbrella Chronicles to Gun Survivor

cvxfreak

Member
With the recent revelation that Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles would be a first person shooter, the knee-jerk reaction has been to compare the game to the previous mediocre Gun Survivor series. However, early videos of Umbrella Chronicles, as well as comments by the director and producer about the title, really make this comparison worthless.

There were three Biohazard Gun Survivor games created. There was the first on the PSone, released in North America without GunCon compatibility, the second game was a CODE: Veronica derivative without voice acting, and the fourth was called Dead Aim. Umbrella Chronicles is also a first person shooter with traits common to the above three games, there are also many factors that distinguish Umbrella Chronicles from the above three games.

1. The three Gun Survivor games weren't exactly the same.
Yes, that's right. The three Gun Survivor games have more variation among themselves than the pre-RE4 mainline RE games did among themselves, so to even liken Umbrella Chronicles to "Gun Survivor" is extremely vague given that the games are fairly different from each other.

Gun Survivor was completely in first person, with an original cannon plot (thanks RE0!) and branching paths with a find-the-key adventure. Gun Survivor 2, also completely in first person, contained a non-canon plotline with no voice acting or original environments, being based in CODE: Veronica's settings. It was a two player game and was actually released in arcades. Like the original, find-a-key methodology although it was broken up into missions. Gun Survivor 4 was a first person/third person hybrid that emphasized killing zombies, but the third person component alone made it different.

So, to say that Umbrella Chronicles is another Gun Survivor means you need to identify which one. Not that many can do that since those who make the comparison probably haven't played the series anyway. superpapermario.jpg

The only valid comparisons with the GS series are the first person view and Survivor 2's status as a CODE: Veronica retread (obviously to a far less grand scale).

2. Capcom did not develop the first two Gun Survivor games.
The fourth one that they developed is actually not that bad of a game, surprisingly. If you're going to liken a Tose-developed game (GS1) and a Namco-developed, CODE: Veronica-based arcade game to Umbrella Chronicles, which has a proven producer (director of RE4 PS2), then I'm going to liken FFXII to those Tose GBA FF ports in the name of fairness.

3. The Gun Survivor series had low production values. Umbrella Chronicles has high production values.
One look at the graphics will make this very clear. Gun Survivor 1 reused character models from RE2 (literally); Survivor 2 reused the actual CODE: Veronica engine and assets and didn't even have any voice acting. Gun Survivor 4, once again the best one, actually had a pretty good graphics engine, with some of the best blood effects in the series. But Umbrella Chronicles take last-gen RE graphics to a whole new level without stepping into RE5 territory.

4. You needed GunCons to get the best Gun Survivor experience. You need what comes with every Wii for Umbrella Chronicles.
Yep, in Japan, GunCon bundles doubled the cost of the games. The first Gun Survivor removed support in North America, and the second was never released there either. As expected, controlling the games with a D-Pad severely limited the quick-reaction the Gun Survivor games demanded. But with Umbrella Chronicles, everyone will get to use the Wii controller for the game.

5. Umbrella Chronicles actually ties into the main story.
Read the press release. We're taking Umbrella down in its stronghold! :D
The Gun Survivor series, on the other hand, were side stories seldom acknowledged by the main plot and this could be deemed forgettable in some respects (although I'll argue Dead Aim was pretty important to the RE4 intro). Anyone looking to have a complete look at the main RE storyline cannot ignore Umbrella Chronicles.

6. The Gun Survivor games were short. Umbrella Chronicles is going to be around 15 hours.
The first Gun Survivor can be completed in a little over an hour and was designed to be this way. Gun Survivor 2 can be done in less than 20, typical of an actual arcade game. Gun Survivor 4 can be completed in 30 minutes on a super speedrun. The Gun Survivor games are known to be quite short. Umbrella Chronicles, the first time around, will take 15 hours, which is how long RE4 took for many people on the first run.

7. Umbrella Chronicles actually goes for gameplay depth.
The Gun Survivor games largely were indiscriminate in terms of physics. A headshot was equal to a leg shot in terms of damage. But Umbrella Chronicles integrates headshots and body shots, contains timing hits (so not random firing to hit a boss) and allows for RE4-style reaction dodges and destructible environments. It will also have greater weapon variety and being based on as many as FOUR RE games, the greatest character, enemy, boss and locale variety.

8. Umbrella Chronicles is on rails.
This means you don't have freeform movement like in the Gun Survivor games. Movement in the first two was often a source of frustration for their awkward and unpolished gameplay (obviously this wasn't a problem with Dead Aim). So even the first person viewpoint comparisons will be a bit problematic.

9. If this were a Gun Survivor, Capcom would have said so.
I'd be good money an extra six months of development and no association with the Gun Survivor name would have done Dead Aim some good. But Capcom's not calling this a Gun Survivor game because Umbrella Chronicles isn't part of that series.

Conclusion
Stop comparing Umbrella Chronicles to the Gun Survivor series. It's an insult. Even if Umbrella Chronicles weren't that great of a game, which looks pretty unlikely at this point, the Gun Survivor games were bad because of lazy gameplay design and low production values. Umbrella Chronicles isn't being hurt by low production values, and videos show the gameplay to be solid, with early impressions
 

Muppet345

Member
Excellent thread. I'm still not very excited for the game - just not interested by what I've seen so far, and I've got some sour grapes that we aren't getting another RE4 - but this contains a lot of info.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
I think CVXFreak finally snapped, must have been the closing of the Outbreak servers

...and yet at the same time I can't help but agree with him
 

fernoca

Member
I agree! :)

But!!!

There were 4 Gun Survivor games:

Japan / US
Gun Survivor / Resident Evil: Survivor
Gun Survivor: Dino Crisis / Dino Stalker
Gun Survivor: CODE Veronica / Not released in the US
Gun Survivor Biohazard: Heroes Never Die / Resident Evil Dead Aim

Hehehehe..anyway, point still stands:
UMBRELLA CHRONICLES IS NOTHING LIKE THOSE GAMES, SO EVERYONE: STOP COMPARING!!!
 

Defensor

Mistaken iRobbery!
There are four Gun Survivor games but only three where Resident Evil based. Years ago I thought Gun Survivor 5 was gonna be based on Dino Crisis 3, Onimusha 2, or Devil May Cry.
 

Yagharek

Member
By "on rails" do you mean Killer 7 rails or House of the Dead rails?

If it's the former, I can cope with that. If it's the latter, then I will have to retain my doubts as to its longevity.
 

marc^o^

Nintendo's Pro Bono PR Firm
The new videos sold me the game already, and then some. It will be an amazing experience :) .
 

cvxfreak

Member
RandomVince said:
By "on rails" do you mean Killer 7 rails or House of the Dead rails?

If it's the former, I can cope with that. If it's the latter, then I will have to retain my doubts as to its longevity.

House of the Dead as a comparison makes more sense in that respect.
 
I think the statement people want to make is "Umbrella Chronicles isn't like RE4."

Frankly, after seeing the game in motion, it doesn't bother me as much. The game looks gorgeous, and more importantly, looks fun.

Besides, it's not like the Wii won't get another Resident Evil anyway, let's be serious.
 

slade

Member
I'm a huge RE fan but unless this has major major contributions to the storyline, it's just another by the way title like the RE survivor series.
 

cvxfreak

Member
slade said:
I'm a huge RE fan but unless this has major major contributions to the storyline, it's just another by the way title like the RE survivor series.

We're going to get the Umbrella downfall storyline.
 

StevieP

Banned
Odrion said:
So this is just a zombie time crisis?

Boo, hiss.

Head%20in%20Hands.jpg
 

Defensor

Mistaken iRobbery!
Odrion said:
So this is just a zombie time crisis?

Boo, hiss.
Nope, its Resident Evil House of the Dead. There's no button to duck.

I look at it this way... Gun Survivor 2 was another way to play Code Veronica... so my initial thought was Umbrella Chronicles is another way to play the Cube RE's.
 

Krowley

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
I think the statement people want to make is "Umbrella Chronicles isn't like RE4."

Frankly, after seeing the game in motion, it doesn't bother me as much. The game looks gorgeous, and more importantly, looks fun.

Besides, it's not like the Wii won't get another Resident Evil anyway, let's be serious.


Yeah it seems like they are trying to make sure there is an RE fanbase on the wii.

This game looks like a pretty serious effort. It looks too good graphicly to be a throw-away game. Combine that with the length they are talking about (15 hours?? for a lightgun game??) even if it's an overblown estimate, this will probably be a pretty substantial game.

I was as skeptical as anybody going in, but seeing it in motion and reading the previews has made me much more confident in this title. There are plenty of new things that can be done with the light-gun genre and i have a feeling that this one is going to be pretty innovative.

I'm now expecting this to be a very cinematic, great looking game with arcade style difficulty and epic length for it's genre. That may not be RE4, but it doesn't sound bad at all.
 

Odrion

Banned
Will UC have multiple pathways like House of the Dead?

And holy shit, at first I didn't know cvxfreak wrote all that. Nice work dude.
 

cvxfreak

Member
Defensor said:
Nope, its Resident Evil House of the Dead. There's no button to duck.

I look at it this way... Gun Survivor 2 was another way to play Code Veronica... so my initial thought was Umbrella Chronicles is another way to play the Cube RE's.

Well, Gun Survivor 2 wasn't to the grand scale that Umbrella Chronicles is of course. Umbrella Chronicles seems to be an adequate replacement for the first four REs (0-3), but in GS2
you wouldn't know Wesker and Chris returned, Alfred existed, Steve died, T-Veronica virus details, etc.
With UC you would probably find out about the better part of the plot from the games it covers.
 

Defensor

Mistaken iRobbery!
Personally, I don't buy the whole 15 hour adventure for Umbrella Chronicles. The Wiimote is not a lightgun, but in contrasts recent lightgun games now take up to 30min to complete (Time Crisis 3, 4, Virtua Cop 3, House of the Dead 4) with past games up to 15min max. The latest Gun Survivor 4 could be completed on a speed run in about 30 minutes but it took me initially about 3-4 hours to complete. Truly what separates this from the Gun Survivor series is the fact that this game is on rails like Namco and Sega lightgun games. And again, the time it will take to complete will make a big difference for Umbrella Chronicles. The unseen scenario(s) of how Umbrella is taken down before RE4 is the deal breaker here. If its just "oh you are playing through RE0 and REmake sections to see the downfall of Umbrella", then that would be such a copout :-/
 

cvxfreak

Member
Defensor said:
The unseen scenario(s) of how Umbrella is taken down before RE4 is the deal breaker here. If its just "oh you are playing through RE0 and REmake sections to see the downfall of Umbrella", then that would be such a copout :-/

From the Umbrella Chronicles press release:

Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles is a brand new game in the Resident Evil franchise, with familiar locales from the entire series, created specifically for the unique characteristics of the Wii hardware. This action/shooter hybrid reveals the back story behind the fall of the Umbrella Corporation by exploring locations from Resident Evil 0, 1, 2 and 3 as well as new never-before-seen locations, such as Umbrella’s stronghold. Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles combines first-person, light-gun style combat with interactive pathways, multiple weapons and new enemies to create an entirely new Resident Evil experience that could only be delivered on the Wii.
 

Lobster

Banned
What does GAF got against light gun games anyway? Other then Racing and DDR what else do you go to Arcades for? Space Invaders?

(I realise my post has nothing to do with UC :\ )
 

Deku

Banned
Lobster said:
What does GAF got against light gun games anyway? Other then Racing and DDR what else do you go to Arcades for? Space Invaders?

(I realise my post has nothing to do with UC :\ )

I haven't been following this game closely and I've only been glancing at the threads. From my observation, it isn't so much that GAF has anything against light gun games but the fact that certain posters are using 'the lightgun genre' as a stealthy way to say "It's not really RE, it will probably suck too."

This is more or less an extension of the 'non-games' rallying cry of months past. If you can't attack a game on quality, imply it isn't really a game or in this case, not really RE. I expect the criticism to continue and intensify if the sales for this game is good.
 

Krowley

Member
Deku said:
I haven't been following this game closely and I've only been glancing at the threads. From my observation, it isn't so much that GAF has anything against light gun games but the fact that certain posters are using 'the lightgun genre' as a stealthy way to say "It's not really RE, it will probably suck too."

This is more or less an extension of the 'non-games' rallying cry of months past. If you can't attack a game on quality, imply it isn't really a game or in this case, not really RE. I expect the criticism to continue and intensify if the sales for this game is good.



Nahh i don't think so.. I think most people would just rather have something a little more like RE4.

Most people don't seem to hate light gun games, they just would rather have an RE game with the RE4 gameplay style.

I've been slightly converted, but i was definitly in that camp before i saw the video today and heard some impressions. I don't think this is a case of stealth trolling.
 

Defensor

Mistaken iRobbery!
Lobster said:
What does GAF got against light gun games anyway? Other then Racing and DDR what else do you go to Arcades for? Space Invaders?

(I realise my post has nothing to do with UC :\ )
Personally, light gun games are my favorite genre for gaming. What I think some people have against them is that the games lack depth and length at the arcades, and it does its job of being casual and easy for pick up and play. I base my whole special game collection on Playstation Guncon Bundles (pic forthcoming). I think people though are making the mistake of classifying the Wii controls exactly like a lightgun but in reality it works more like a mouse pointer (hence the target reticle).
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH EAT CROW DRAGONA!! EAT IIIIITTT!!!!
 

Shaheed79

dabbled in the jelly
I just saw a youtube of dead aim. Is it just me or does Dead Aim look to play almost exactly like RE4 in a more traditional RE setting? Why is this even a Gun Survivor game?
 

Avrum

Member
Got an account at Nsider and Gamespot? They could use a thread like this for people that are simply hating on the game because they also think it's another Gun Survivor, although tonight's gameplay trailer has opened the minds of many to the possibility that this might be good even though it's not a conventional RE game.
 

cvxfreak

Member
duckroll said:
Too much text. Next time try to restrict yourself to 30 words or less when trying to call people retards. :lol

Too bad duckroll. It's the only way. :(

EDIT: Although, the concept of bolding the most important parts seems to have escaped even you.
 

Zenith

Banned
cvxfreak said:
1. The three Gun Survivor games weren't exactly the same.
Yes, that's right. The three Gun Survivor games have more variation among themselves than the pre-RE4 mainline RE games did among themselves, so to even liken Umbrella Chronicles to "Gun Survivor" is extremely vague given that the games are fairly different from each other.

Gun Survivor was completely in first person, with an original cannon plot (thanks RE0!) and branching paths with a find-the-key adventure. Gun Survivor 2, also completely in first person, contained a non-canon plotline with no voice acting or original environments, being based in CODE: Veronica's settings. It was a two player game and was actually released in arcades. Like the original, find-a-key methodology although it was broken up into missions. Gun Survivor 4 was a first person/third person hybrid that emphasized killing zombies, but the third person component alone made it different.

Aside from 2 player, GS1 and GS2 shared exactly the same gameplay. I agree 3rd person made GS4 better to move around in but when you went to first person, you still couldn't move, you still had that little crosshair moving around, just like the combat in the previous GS's, which is the main part of the game.

I think the main problem people have is that it's a lightgun game, they just reach for GS as a comparison because it's the closest thing. but stuff like "shoot the zombie in the leg to slow him down" has all been done by HotD many times over.
 

Shaheed79

dabbled in the jelly
If the game is even remotely close to being 15-20 hrs like maybe 10-12 hours it will end up being the best light-gun shooter hybrid of all time. Imo the biggest flaw to the genre has always been its short gameplay experience. Past RE's before RE4 could all be completed in under 1hr30min but if this is as long as RE4 then this game is truely going to be something very special and I will buy it for that reason alone.
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Odrion said:
So this is just a zombie time crisis?

Boo, hiss.

Have you not heard of House of the Dead?!

cvxfreak said:
Too bad duckroll. It's the only way. :(

EDIT: Although, the concept of bolding the most important parts seems to have escaped even you.

Are you insinuating that duckroll is NOT a retard? :)
 

john tv

Member
Nothing personal, but I don't think it's unreasonable at all to compare this to Gun Survivor. It's Capcom's fault for putting out shitty light gun versions of Biohazard -- not ours. :)

PS -- The time you spent writing this up is time you will never get back......
 

cvxfreak

Member
john tv said:
Nothing personal, but I don't think it's unreasonable at all to compare this to Gun Survivor. It's Capcom's fault for putting out shitty light gun versions of Biohazard -- not ours. :)

PS -- The time you spent writing this up is time you will never get back......

15 minutes. :D

I don't think it's unreasonable going in, but people should realize that there are huge differences and a comparison isn't fair at all. Especially since the GS games have a negative stigma to them.
 

MMaRsu

Banned
cvxfreak said:
15 minutes. :D

I don't think it's unreasonable going in, but people should realize that there are huge differences and a comparison isn't fair at all. Especially since the GS games have a negative stigma to them.

You could have helped some old lady across the street!
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
cvxfreak said:
15 minutes. :D

I don't think it's unreasonable going in, but people should realize that there are huge differences and a comparison isn't fair at all. Especially since the GS games have a negative stigma to them.

You could`ve done a Gun Survivor speed run in that time!!!
 
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