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Console Price Cuts Retrospective

Kreuzader

Member
There's an article at Next-Gen looking at the history of price cuts on consoles:

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5883&Itemid=2

Some quotes:

With the Xbox 360 is nearing its 19th month on the market, it will soon have held its launch price longer than the PlayStation 2. Both launched first in their respective generations and held the line on pricing for a year longer than the competitors. The Xbox 360 would have to drop by a third in price when it does drop to stay in keeping with last generation's trends. If such a drop were to take place, the Xbox 360 Core would drop to $200, the Premium to $267, and the Elite to $320.

[...]

A PlayStation 3 or Wii price drop in the near term would align nicely with the pricing of the Xbox and GameCube in 2002. However, should Sony opt to reduce the price of the PlayStation 3, it will be likely be in the 16-20% range, not the 25-33% range that Microsoft and Nintendo chose for their last generation consoles.
 

jvm

Gamasutra.
I'm the author. As I've done before when I've got something on Next-Gen that gets mentioned here, I'll stick my neck out and invite comments directly. Thanks.
 

Tieno

Member
Lots of cool chartz! even bolding for the lazy on the article itself. This article is made for GAF consumption.
drops5avg-prices.jpg
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
jvm said:
I'm the author. As I've done before when I've got something on Next-Gen that gets mentioned here, I'll stick my neck out and invite comments directly. Thanks.

Thanks for the bolding of points, and the shoutout to Neogaf at the end of the article.

Much appreciated.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
If Microsoft started packaging a wireless controller and component cables into the core and sold it for $200, I think they would see a sizeable spike in sales of the core.
 
Great article.

I myself am waiting for price drops before "jumping in" to the (now current) generation. And I'm frustrated it's taken this long.

An analyst's study just after the holidays indicated MS had "exhausted" the market of people willing to pay $400 for a 360. But, their survey reported several people willing to pay $300 (for the premium, not the gimped core). I'm one of those.

I, for the life of me, can't figure out why MS is waiting so long. Slashing the Premium's price to $300 (or $250 if I'm dreaming) would create a sure surge in sales. By leaving it as is, a huge chunk of potential buyers are now playing the waiting game. The waiting game is bad fo MS. The more I play the Wii, the more I like. And the more I hear about the RROD, the more attractive a PS3 looks (minus the price tag).

I desperately want to dive in and play games like GoW, Forza 2, and so on. But I (and many Americans) don't have $550 + (premium, warranty, game, controller) lying around. MS needs to get its head out of its arse.
 

Tieno

Member
brendanrfoley said:
I, for the life of me, can't figure out why MS is waiting so long.
.
I think it has to do with the high cost of repairing so many consoles and the high price of the ps3. They attributed some of the loss of their (media?) devision towards the warranties and whatnot.
 

jvm

Gamasutra.
DarienA said:
Thanks for the bolding of points, and the shoutout to Neogaf at the end of the article.

Much appreciated.
Thanks. I can't take credit for the bolding -- Colin, the editor, did that. In retrospect, I realize that with all the graphs and the somewhat dense text that you needed something to pull those points out more easily.
 
DenogginizerOS said:
If Microsoft started packaging a wireless controller and component cables into the core and sold it for $200, I think they would see a sizeable spike in sales of the core.


Especially if they dropped the price of the 20GB HDD.
 
brendanrfoley said:
I, for the life of me, can't figure out why MS is waiting so long.
Because so far they have not needed to lower the cost, its selling and its cheaper then the ps3. why drop it's price?
 

Tieno

Member
Diablohead said:
Because so far they have not needed to lower the cost, its selling and its cheaper then the ps3. why drop it's price?
Because I think they need to try to compete with the Wii.
 

tanod

when is my burrito
That was a really great article.

I was hoping it would go even MORE in-depth like including the previous generation and looking what portables have sold at. I would also be interested to see how software sales or attach ratios are affected in the wake of price drops.
 
I don't think "it's selling" is a good reason to argue AGAINST a price cut.

The way I see it -- it's not selling as well as it could, directly because of price. That's why you drop.
 

DSWii60

Member
brendanrfoley said:
I, for the life of me, can't figure out why MS is waiting so long.

They're not going to cut the price until after Halo 3 comes out because they want to make every dollar possible at $400 before dropping the price.
 

Yoboman

Gold Member
Diablohead said:
Because so far they have not needed to lower the cost, its selling and its cheaper then the ps3. why drop it's price?
360 isn't selling that well. It's selling better than PS3, sure, but it's not selling that well for itself. Right now it's doing worse numbers than it was in its first year when it had shortages. It's doing numbers equal, maybe lower than Xbox was doing in the same point of its lifecycle. It could, and maybe should be the next PS2.

They're waiting for PS3 to drop it's price so they can correspond but in reality they should be the ones making the moves and capitalising. They could've had a price drop and a significant boost by now and then another price drop around Halo 3 with an even further boost in numbers. Rather they're sitting on their laurels.
 

[Nintex]

Member
brendanrfoley said:
Great article.

I myself am waiting for price drops before "jumping in" to the (now current) generation. And I'm frustrated it's taken this long.

An analyst's study just after the holidays indicated MS had "exhausted" the market of people willing to pay $400 for a 360. But, their survey reported several people willing to pay $300 (for the premium, not the gimped core). I'm one of those.

I, for the life of me, can't figure out why MS is waiting so long. Slashing the Premium's price to $300 (or $250 if I'm dreaming) would create a sure surge in sales. By leaving it as is, a huge chunk of potential buyers are now playing the waiting game. The waiting game is bad fo MS. The more I play the Wii, the more I like. And the more I hear about the RROD, the more attractive a PS3 looks (minus the price tag).

I desperately want to dive in and play games like GoW, Forza 2, and so on. But I (and many Americans) don't have $550 + (premium, warranty, game, controller) lying around. MS needs to get its head out of its arse.
If MS announces a price drop of the 360 to $299, Nintendo will follow with a price drop and sony as well. This means that the Wii is even cheaper then it is now, and might become even more popular. While the PS3 suddenly become's a better alternative.

The best strategy for MS is to drop te price on the day HALO 3 hits "without!!" announcing it untill the day it happens. Most people will see HALO 3 on commercials, look for it and find out the Xbox360 just got $100 cheaper. Nintendo and Sony can't act directly with a price drop without planning ahead.
 

SRG01

Member
Holy ****. Great article! :)

You bring up an excellent point near the end of the article; judging by the Wii's success at $249, the under-$300 level might be the sweet spot for all consoles this generation.
 

tanod

when is my burrito
DSWii60 said:
They're not going to cut the price until after Halo 3 comes out because they want to make every dollar possible at $400 before dropping the price.

If they did anything else, it might be a dumb move. Sony definitely needs to drop 16%-25% before this Fall's lineup comes out, though.

It's hard to say what MS will do, for sure. There were 67,000 Elites that got sold last month in NA, out of 174,000 360s. I wonder if they will have a big sales drop since I figure a lot of those people who bought Elites had been waiting for quite a while for that model to come out adn there won't be as many this month.
 

Yoboman

Gold Member
That's a very interesting article BTW. I wouldn't be surprised to see price drops at E3 if this is any indication. Sony will probably follow something like Xbox, and drop by 33% ASAP.
 

Yoboman

Gold Member
[Nintex] said:
If MS announces a price drop of the 360 to $299, Nintendo will follow with a price drop and sony as well. This means that the Wii is even cheaper then it is now, and might become even more popular. While the PS3 suddenly become's a better alternative.

The best strategy for MS is to drop te price on the day HALO 3 hits "without!!" announcing it untill the day it happens. Most people will see HALO 3 on commercials, look for it and find out the Xbox360 just got $100 cheaper. Nintendo and Sony can't act directly with a price drop without planning ahead.
I really doubt we'll see a Wii price drop anytime soon. I think Nintendo could do it, their hardware costs relative to their price is probably very large. But the way they're selling, I don't think getting even cheaper is necessary
 
I think there are two important conclusions to draw from this study.

1. This generation hasn't really "started" yet. Or rather, Sony and MS are going to try and make this generation extremely long. Corollary: Wii's short-term success isn't a big factor on their strategy. If the current trends continue for another year or two, then Sony/MS will definitely have to react. Of course waiting a year or two TO react might be too late...

2. Price drops are part of the lifeblood of the console business, even the casuals are aware that they drop in price. This results in a natural decay of monthly sales as time goes on since people will just wait for the inevitable price drop. Despite the 360 being out longer than the PS3 I think this is actually affecting the PS3 more since the "noise" is far louder on the PS3's side.
 

tanod

when is my burrito
Regardless of what MS does, I don't think the Wii will getting a drop this year, at all.
 

DSWii60

Member
tanod said:
If they did anything else, it might be a dumb move.

QFT, exactly....Microsoft would be throwing away $100 for every Xbox sold because of Halo 3.

And great article BTW.
 

Hcoregamer00

The 'H' stands for hentai.
Your article is right.

The most important statement that people should understand is that price doesn't determine sales, it is price plus momentum determines overall sales.

What shouldn't shock anyone is that the $200 price point and below is where the "Mainstream Sales" will kick in, and the Wii is only one price drop away from hitting this price point. The Gamecube sales have shown us that low price isn't everything, they need momentum in this industry. The PS3 will need to be price cut many times, and the XBOX 360 would need 1 or 2 price cuts to hit the level.

The question is this, since the entrance level is higher for the consoles, do you think that ultimately the "mainstream price" will be higher for the XBOX 360 and PS3. After all, it makes sense that after people have been accustomed to seeing a $600 PS3 that a $300 PS3 would be considered a steal? The same thing with the XBOX 360 premium at $480 moving to $300.

The data makes sense when applying it to consoles that launch at $300, but when applying it to $600 and $480 consoles the precedent hasn't been set yet at which is the "baseline" the casual gamers and nongamers will start buying one.

Omar Ismail said:
1. This generation hasn't really "started" yet. Or rather, Sony and MS are going to try and make this generation extremely long. Corollary: Wii's short-term success isn't a big factor on their strategy. If the current trends continue for another year or two, then Sony/MS will definitely have to react. Of course waiting a year or two TO react might be too late...

I think it has more to do with the position that the companies are in. You look last generation with the PS2, XBOX, and Gamecube. The PS2 was the undisputed leader for a long time and didn't need a price drop for a long time, common sense. The XBOX was Microsoft's first foray into the console world and wanted to make a brand for itself. That means they would do anything it took to keep up with sony, that means price cutting as a reactionary measure against sony and losing $5 billion on it. Nintendo on the other hand was selling badly compared to the other two and thus had to do price cuts out of desperation.

This generation on the other hand has all the companies in a different situation. Microsoft with the XBOX 360 is the first console released which means they din't need to lower the price for a while. That also means that if the XBOX 360 does a price cut, it is preemptive as opposed to reactionary. Sony on the other hand is on the losing side and they need lots of price cuts to hit a similar price point to XBOX. That is assuming that a higher price doesn't create new psychological barrier (ie: Since the PS3 launched at $600, a console priced at $350 is a "steal"). The Wii is also in the same position because they have momentum which means they don't need to lower the price because of the "perceived value" and price cuts will be determined more as a natural progression instead of out of desperation like last generation.
 
Actually that is true. Since you're looking at only one generation where the prices were similar then extracting a hard absolute dollar value is difficult. It might be more complicated such as 33% of the perceived market leader's entry price. Because that fits the data pretty well as well.
 
tanod said:
Regardless of what MS does, I don't think the Wii will getting a drop this year, at all.

It will be sold out until 2008. So no reason for a price drop. Check out holiday releaselist. It's the hottest item for the holidays.
 

tanod

when is my burrito
Inflation adjustments would be really interesting too, especially if the article went back to earlier generations.
 

Yoboman

Gold Member
One thing I'm wondering... What it is it about the scaling of last gen to this gen that made it far more expensive than any previous one? Going back, every generation seemed to scale so that the manufacturers manage to deliver "next gen" hardware with upgrades you'd expect at a reasonable ~$300 price tag. Why is it that it didn't scale properly this gen?
 

Hcoregamer00

The 'H' stands for hentai.
Yoboman said:
One thing I'm wondering... What it is it about the scaling of last gen to this gen that made it far more expensive than any previous one? Going back, every generation seemed to scale so that the manufacturers manage to deliver "next gen" hardware with upgrades you'd expect at a reasonable ~$300 price tag. Why is it that it didn't scale properly this gen?

Simple, instead of designing a hardware around a price point they decided to design the hardware on a base point of power and space (as in it should have 720p, HDD, Multiple Cores, 512 MB of RAM, Blu Ray). It was also because the hardware developers actually gave state of the art technology that is the absolute newest stuff instead of using slightly older components like all the previous generation.

It was possible for the XBOX 360 or the PS3 to be a 2.33 Ghz triple core with a downgraded GPU, DVD, and 512 MB of slower ram for $299. The question is would people have bought that? I know I would have, because it is on a price level I agree with. The problem is diminishing returns that would make people question "next generation" because the graphic jumps keep getting smaller and smaller.
 

Shinobi

Member
I haven't read the article yet, so I don't know if this was mentioned. And I don't know if anyone has mentioned it elsewhere. But my theory as to why the 360 has yet to see a price drop is because of the downward spiral of the US dollar over the last year or two, versus other currencies. In particular the Canadian dollar has made MAJOR gains against the greenback in the last couple years (think it closed at 94.46 yesterday). It's appreciated 11% versus the US dollar (about ten cents) in just three months. Some economic experts believe parity between the two currencies could happen sometime in '08. Some even believe it could happen before the end of the year. Still, others think the loonie will slide back down to 84 cents.

And that last point is what I think is giving MS (and Sony) a bit of a problem. At the moment the consoles in Canada are priced at the level of a 70 to 75 cent Canadian dollar. Any price drop that occurs will have to reflect both the new and upcoming realties of the respective currencies.

The current Canadian price for the high end 360 is $500, and $700 for the high end PS3. At today's conversion rates, that equates to $471 and $660 US respectively. At today's rates the current US console prices translate to $424 and $636 Canadian. So clearly the Canadian prices are pretty ****ing out there for a well off country that borders the US.

If the high end 360 got dropped to $300 in the US, that would translate to $318 Canadian by today's dollars. If the high end PS3 got dropped to $400 in the US (the pricepoint I believe Sony will need in order to make any serious gains), that would equal $424 Canadian. That would effectively mean a $182 and $276 drop in price for the Canadian models, which would be massive.

The thing is, if the Canadian dollar goes back closer to 80 cents over the next year or two, they'd effectively be losing money on the Canadian models...or at the very least, leaving a lot of extra money on the table for (in their eyes) no good reason.

So I believe that's part of the reason for the delay in 360's price (PS3 wasn't gonna get a price drop before September regardless). Both MS and Sony want to have as clear a picture as possible for where the Canadian dollar will be over the next year or two, before setting a price that's as fair and reasonable as possible. But I do think the price will fall in time for Halo 3's release, as MS will egotistically want to own September for console sales so they can boast about it in a press release (and to be fair, they're all like that).
 

Xzior

Member
Kreuzader said:
With the Xbox 360 is nearing its 19th month on the market, it will soon have held its launch price longer than the PlayStation 2. Both launched first in their respective generations and held the line on pricing for a year longer than the competitors. The Xbox 360 would have to drop by a third in price when it does drop to stay in keeping with last generation's trends. If such a drop were to take place, the Xbox 360 Core would drop to $200, the Premium to $267, and the Elite to $320.
Do I just remember wrong, but didn't Dreamcast launch before PS2?
 

tanod

when is my burrito
If you want to consider pricing across different countries, you also have to consider a cost of living index, transportation from manufacturing plant costs, and retail channel costs in determining what your final wholesale and retail price will be. It's a lot more complicated than just the exchange rates (which are extremely volatile and completely unpredictable over the short-term).

Additionally, based on what I've learned in grad school, the U.S. has one of the lowest retail channel costs in the world and it's by a pretty wide margin so that skews things significantly when we look at pricing from a North American point of view.

Specifically to Shinobi: Almost everything has been appreciating against the dollar including the Japanese yen (Sony and Nintendo) and the Chinese yuan (all the assembly). Any assembly that isn't being done in China is most likely done in Mexico for all the console manufacturers. Take in mind that manufacturing (creating chips, etc.) is different than assembly and some of that takes place in America at IBM for all 3 console manufacturers.

Since these processes happen all around the world, exchange rate is not something that can be considered for short-term business decisions (aside from initial price point) and is relegated to long-term decisions such as where to locate a new manufacturing plant or make an acquisition.
 

jvm

Gamasutra.
Xzior said:
Do I just remember wrong, but didn't Dreamcast launch before PS2?
I knew someone would bring this up. Yes, the exclusion of the Dreamcast was intentional.
 
DenogginizerOS said:
If Microsoft started packaging a wireless controller and component cables into the core and sold it for $200, I think they would see a sizeable spike in sales of the core.

Nope. The $300 premium would still outsell a $200 core.

The SKU is a lost cause without the HDD (or any storage medium). Unless you can get everything in the Premium case for the same price individually when buying the Core, there's simply no sizeable market for it.

What they need to do is either phase it out entirely, or package in a 512MB memory card and Viva Pinata (or simply allow for support of external storage devices, but MS would never do something that ****ing dumb). Then people would buy it without feeling completely ripped off, even compared to the Wii.
 
I think there are 3 main reasons that MS haven't dropped price yet:-

1. The hardware reliability and failures have eaten into the bottom-line cost of the 360, giving MS less financial room to cut prices.

2. The 360 has been relatively steady up until last March at a consistent 50k per week.

3. The availability of the 65nm parts, which obviously have a pricing impact.

However, I fancy that May NPD will show the 360 really starting to slow up:- from 40K in April including the Elite launch to around about 35k in May NPD - of course I might be wrong, but based on the last few months I see serious signs that the 360 is hitting saturation point at it's current price.

My prediction is that if MS do not do anything on price, they could likely end up under 100K for July NPD, with a slight bump for Madden in August.

They will obviously see a large boost for Halo3 in September, but no where near the spike they would get with a $100 price cut.

I think that if they can get the 65nm 360 ready prior to Halo 3 we will see a price cut.

Otherwise it will be November.

Personally I think they have dropped the ball big time and could really be driving things, but are instead taking a short term view.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
Article needs to be far more inflammatory. Really, instead of wasting your time with thoughtful analysis and charts, couldn't have have come up with some incendiary rhetoric?

"PS3 price cuts will not helped doomed system!"
"MS failure to drop price means 360 relegated to hardcore niche gaming!"
"Wii: World's most successful murder simulator?"

See, it's really not that hard. And to think, all the glory of a 20-page thread and the riches of multiple hits from critical blog links were there for the taking.
 

DSWii60

Member
Shinobi said:
I haven't read the article yet, so I don't know if this was mentioned. And I don't know if anyone has mentioned it elsewhere. But my theory as to why the 360 has yet to see a price drop is because of the downward spiral of the US dollar over the last year or two, versus other currencies. In particular the Canadian dollar has made MAJOR gains against the greenback in the last couple years (think it closed at 94.46 yesterday). It's appreciated 11% versus the US dollar (about ten cents) in just three months. Some economic experts believe parity between the two currencies could happen sometime in '08. Some even believe it could happen before the end of the year. Still, others think the loonie will slide back down to 84 cents.

And that last point is what I think is giving MS (and Sony) a bit of a problem. At the moment the consoles in Canada are priced at the level of a 70 to 75 cent Canadian dollar. Any price drop that occurs will have to reflect both the new and upcoming realties of the respective currencies.

The current Canadian price for the high end 360 is $500, and $700 for the high end PS3. At today's conversion rates, that equates to $471 and $660 US respectively. At today's rates the current US console prices translate to $424 and $636 Canadian. So clearly the Canadian prices are pretty ****ing out there for a well off country that borders the US.

If the high end 360 got dropped to $300 in the US, that would translate to $318 Canadian by today's dollars. If the high end PS3 got dropped to $400 in the US (the pricepoint I believe Sony will need in order to make any serious gains), that would equal $424 Canadian. That would effectively mean a $182 and $276 drop in price for the Canadian models, which would be massive.

The thing is, if the Canadian dollar goes back closer to 80 cents over the next year or two, they'd effectively be losing money on the Canadian models...or at the very least, leaving a lot of extra money on the table for (in their eyes) no good reason.

So I believe that's part of the reason for the delay in 360's price (PS3 wasn't gonna get a price drop before September regardless). Both MS and Sony want to have as clear a picture as possible for where the Canadian dollar will be over the next year or two, before setting a price that's as fair and reasonable as possible. But I do think the price will fall in time for Halo 3's release, as MS will egotistically want to own September for console sales so they can boast about it in a press release (and to be fair, they're all like that).

Sony and MS are not basing their pricecuts on how much money they will lose for Canada if the dollar changes in value. Canada is not that big a market (10% of the US IIRC). Now if you had said the same thing except replacing Canada for Europe/UK and the Euro/Pound then I could accept what you are saying.
 

jvm

Gamasutra.
AstroLad said:
Article needs to be far more inflammatory. Really, instead of wasting your time with thoughtful analysis and charts, couldn't have have come up with some incendiary rhetoric?
I'm no Pachter. Give me time.
 

dextran

Member
I feel the same way about price cuts that I do the Iraq and Iran wars. When you talk about something forever, and ever, it's bound to happen soon.
A PS3 price cut will open the floodgates.
 

Tempy

don't ask me for codes
jvm said:
I'm the author. As I've done before when I've got something on Next-Gen that gets mentioned here, I'll stick my neck out and invite comments directly. Thanks.

Wait, so you're not an armchair analyst like all the other posers on NeoGAF?
 

Kalren

Member
The scenario I see played out with price drops is:

1) Sony drops July/Aug/Sept maybe even as late as Oct. They need to gain some momentum, and the only system moving title IMO is GTA4, but that's found on the the 360... and if they don't... I agree with having a long term cycle but developers need an intalled base to recover cost of developments

2) Microsoft, stays where it is. With both Halo 3 and GTA4 coming, both titles move systems. Microsoft drops Mar/April/May as momentum from the holiday sales would have fallen and it allows them to begin approaching mass market pricing without cannibalizing revenue from the holidays.

3) Nintendo doesn't need to do a thing till systems stay on the shelves.... summer of 2008? even then, will they need to drop? Too far in the future to see, and it depends on the circumstances the PS3 and X360 are in.
 

jarrod

Banned
I really think we'll see drops and pack in reshuffles for everything this fall actually. Sony basically *has* to do it, and in turn we'll see counter drops from Microsoft and Nintendo. Probably all within the space of a week, maybe as soon as August.
 

Kalren

Member
jarrod said:
I really think we'll see drops and pack in reshuffles for everything this fall actually. Sony basically *has* to do it, and in turn we'll see counter drops from Microsoft and Nintendo. Probably all within the space of a week, maybe as soon as August.

While Microsoft may want to counter a PS3 drop, I still think it's tough to say they will based on past performance of the Halo franchise. Only on the off chance Sony makes a significant price cut do I think MS will drop.

Nintendo will sell everything they put on shelves... why would they cut anything.
 

Tailzo

Member
jvm said:
I knew someone would bring this up. Yes, the exclusion of the Dreamcast was intentional.
Would still be interesting to see the Dreamcast there, as it was part of the previous gen.
 
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