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LTTP: Etrian Odyssey

jman2050

Member
Okay, so I was deterred from playing this for a while because of all the "old-school RPG" descriptions flying around. I'm not particularly fond of the conventions that made RPGs like Wizardry popular, so I wasn't really sold on Etrian Odyssey's style of play. Then again, there were a few elements of the game that sounded interesting and the glowing impressions on it were hard to ignore. Seeing as the game was relatively cheap ($15), I figured I'd take a chance and see what all the fuss is about.

Well, I can safely say that, at the very least, the praise was warranted. I haven't played too much of it (I have a bunch of characters at level 7-8, just beat a Ragelope or whatever it was called on the second floor), but I can say I like it. It definitely has the feel of an old-school RPG, reminding me of stuff like Phantasy Star and Ultima, and has some of the conventions that really annoy me, such as the seeming reliance on endless grinding and the fact you basically have to retrace your steps every time you want to progress, which seems like a waste of time. However, I think it does a lot of things right. The combat is typical turn-based fare, but the class distinctions and skill system are executed in a way that experimentation becomes integral. I haven't read up on 'optimal' parties or skillsets or any of that crap, so I find myself spending my time levelling up different characters of te same class and junctioning their skill sets at different points, trying to set up the characters that compliment each other the most. Gathering materials that act as your source of income *and* as a means of upgrading buyable items is a good idea as well.

Fortunately, the game comes together because the interface and presentation is rock solid. Menus are quick, responsive, and organized logically. Combat moves swiftly enough that grinding isn't a complete chore. There are several minor but useful interface additions that make things much less annoying. Seeing how much energy an enemy has remaining before you execute your turn is one such example. The 3D dungeon looks really good, even for the DS.

Oh yes, I haven't even mentioned the mapping portion, which is easily one of the single best justifications for the DS's existence. If Kirby Canvas Curse is the quintessential demonstration of the touch screen's potential for gameplay, Etrian Odyssey is the same for the touch screen's utility. Suddenly, a style of RPG that I previously dreaded for requiring either intense memorization or exact bookkeeping for its inevitably complex and convoluted dungeons is now a breeze. Map making is extremely simple, with a host of tags and options so that you can easily keep track of *everything* you come across with little to no trouble. Also, written memos that actually appear on the dungeon screen when you approach the square is a great addition as well.

I imagine that I'll be spending a bit of time increasing my levels, making sure I have enough gold to get by(which is at a huge premium in this game from my reckoning), and customizing characters to my liking. If the guild's "Rest" command does what it says it does, then there shouldn't be too much of a problem if I screw up character development somehow. Overall, the verdict is still out on whether it's the "best RPG on the DS!", but I like what I've played so far. :)
 

Danielsan

Member
I've been playing it since this friday and I'm absolutely hooked. Made it to the 2nd stratum (6th floor) today. The game is really hard but still fair. Will definitely buy EO2 as soon as it's out. Don't want to have a chance to miss out on that.

First I have to beat the original EO though which doesn't look like a small or easy task.
 

Wraith

Member
I should probably go back to this, but I doubt I ever will. I'm pretty sure I'm just at the 4th stratum, too, which is when people say it starts to get really interesting.
 

Danielsan

Member
TheExodu5 said:
Where the hell are you guys finding this game? Or did you pay $40 used?
I paid €27 for it (used). However I'm in Euroland where it should be even harder to find concidering the game was never really released here (only imports).
 
Wraith said:
I should probably go back to this, but I doubt I ever will. I'm pretty sure I'm just at the 4th stratum, too, which is when people say it starts to get really interesting.

Just keep going, get to the 5th stratum if anything. After that you'll definitely want to play more.
If the guild's "Rest" command does what it says it does, then there shouldn't be too much of a problem if I screw up character development somehow.

You might as well screw around with the characters' abilities until they are high enough leveled to rest. Then you will be able to make them super powerful, such as putting axes-only on your landsnecht. You'll also have to retire your Alchemist and replace them with a Ronin or Hexer.
 

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
I found it a t a local Play n' Trade for $38, will probably pick it up next week after pay day
 

Danielsan

Member
Death_Born said:
Just keep going, get to the 5th stratum if anything. After that you'll definitely want to play more.
Wait wait, fifth stratum? Is it five floors per stratum? So how many floor am I looking at here for the entire game? 0_o
 

botticus

Member
Death_Born said:
Just keep going, get to the 5th stratum if anything. After that you'll definitely want to play more.
Yeah, and it goes pretty quick from there. Only took me 10 months, but I finished it about a week ago.
 

bradido

Member
Because of the reverence EO gets on NeoGAF, I have given this game a chance at least 5-6 times. I don't get why people like it. I was attracted by the art style but its the most painful, slow-paced grind I have ever played. Am I missing something?
 

Danielsan

Member
bradido said:
Because of the reverence EO gets on NeoGAF, I have given this game a chance at least 5-6 times. I don't get why people like it. I was attracted by the art style but its the most painful, slow-paced grind I have ever played. Am I missing something?
You probably just don't like dungeon crawlers. Let it be and move on.
 

bengraven

Member
Danielsan said:
You probably just don't like dungeon crawlers. Let it be and move on.

I'm kind of on the fence about this. While I love dungeon crawling (I'm from the way old school RPG days: Might and Magic, Ultima, Elder Scrolls), I also like a lot of typical RPG elements mixed in, like exploring towns and countryside. I've also learned to not enjoy the grind as much as when I was a kid, maybe from lack of patience.

That said, I'm prowling my Gamestop and they're eager to get a copy in to rip me off with.
 

TheExodu5

Banned
bradido said:
Because of the reverence EO gets on NeoGAF, I have given this game a chance at least 5-6 times. I don't get why people like it. I was attracted by the art style but its the most painful, slow-paced grind I have ever played. Am I missing something?

Give it to meeeee!
 

Danielsan

Member
bengraven said:
I'm kind of on the fence about this. While I love dungeon crawling (I'm from the way old school RPG days: Might and Magic, Ultima, Elder Scrolls), I also like a lot of typical RPG elements mixed in, like exploring towns and countryside. I've also learned to not enjoy the grind as much as when I was a kid, maybe from lack of patience.

That said, I'm prowling my Gamestop and they're eager to get a copy in to rip me off with.
So far In haven't done any actual grinding. As in moving from left to right to score some random encounters. You're constantly exploring the floors and meanwhile you're leveling up. As soon as you have run out of TP (mana) or health it's time to warp back to town the refresh your party, sell your loot and buy some new items for your next journey into the labyrinth. Having to track through several floors just to get to the point where you left of can be a bit anoying at times but given that you have drawn the map you are not likely to spent more than 5 minutes on a floor that you have already completed and meanwhile you're still gaining xp and items to sell. As it looks now (I'm not super far) the game gives you a warp point every 5 floors. So going to the 4th floor now means I only need to track through the 5th floor.
There are also handy hidden shortcuts through the trees that often let you skip half a floor. :D
 
bradido said:
Because of the reverence EO gets on NeoGAF, I have given this game a chance at least 5-6 times. I don't get why people like it. I was attracted by the art style but its the most painful, slow-paced grind I have ever played. Am I missing something?
Hold down 'A' during battles to make them go faster.
 

Althane

Member
TheExodu5 said:
Where the hell are you guys finding this game? Or did you pay $40 used?


New, but I'm also paying shipping, and it's from Sk3tch, so I trust it.

Nice guy, too.

Looking forward to starting on it!
 
Danielsan said:
Wait wait, fifth stratum? Is it five floors per stratum? So how many floor am I looking at here for the entire game? 0_o

30

I finally beat the main quest last night. Can't wait for EO2.
Time to see what the post game holds...
 

Danielsan

Member
Lord Helmet said:
30

I finally beat the main quest last night. Can't wait for EO2.
Time to see what the post game holds...
Well that sounds manageable. I hope to beat the maingame before GTAIV gets released. I doubt that's going to happen though.
 
I just beat the post-game a few weeks ago. I don't know how many hours I finally put into the sucker, but it had me hooked. Granted, I did get bored at two different points, but after a months break each time, I was good to go. I managed to map the whole game on my own, except for B27F, which made me cry like a little girl.
 

botticus

Member
Danielsan said:
Well that sounds manageable. I hope to beat the maingame before GTAIV gets released. I doubt that's going to happen though.
The main game is actually
25
floors.

And no, you won't beat it in the next three weeks unless you are unemployed.
 

Danielsan

Member
botticus said:
The main game is actually
25
floors.

And no, you won't beat it in the next three weeks unless you are unemployed.
Well snap. So the time to beat a floor ramps up severely huh?. Ooh well more bang for my buck.
 

ToastyFrog

Inexplicable Treasure Hate
Actually, I've found the later strata go far more quickly than the first two (aside from a few sticking points) because you have more diverse skills, can find a few healing points in the dungeon and can more easily afford health/MP recovery items, thus obviating the need to return to town as soon as your Medic runs out of magic juice for curing. After a while you'll find you only return to town when your inventory becomes overloaded with item drops.
 

Saitou

Banned
Danielsan said:
Well snap. So the time to beat a floor ramps up severely huh?. Ooh well more bang for my buck.
Don't worry, you can forget about the extra dungeon and quests if you don't have a Paladin carefully specced so as to take care of some very annoying bosses and an Alchemist to take care of the randoms that are essentially immune to physical damage.


I love this game, but I hate it for forcing me to use the two worst classes for it's extra dungeon =/
Thankfully, I think EO2 fixes that.
 
Saitou said:
Don't worry, you can forget about the extra dungeon and quests if you don't have a Paladin carefully specced so as to take care of some very annoying bosses and an Alchemist to take care of the randoms that are essentially immune to physical damage.


I love this game, but I hate it for forcing me to use the two worst classes for it's extra dungeon =/

Alchemist one of the two worst classes? What exactly are you smoking? Nevermind that, no, you're not forced to use him at all.

Thankfully, I think EO2 fixes that.

Get real. This is an Atlus R&D1 game.
 

Saitou

Banned
Pureauthor said:
Alchemist one of the two worst classes? What exactly are you smoking? Nevermind that, no, you're not forced to use him at all.

Get real. This is an Atlus R&D1 game.
You heard me, pal. They're a shitty class that's required because they're the only ones who have elemental non-physical attacks.

Also, I know this is Atlus Nippon, but Atlus USA is here to fix it. They've already confirmed that all the skill bugs from EO2 are getting fix't in the NA release.
 
Saitou said:
You heard me, pal. They're a shitty class that's required because they're the only ones who have elemental non-physical attacks.

No, they are most certainly not required at any point in the game, unlike the Protector.
 

bengraven

Member
Okay, I'll this game, but:

1) random battles?
2) like a FP Diablo 2?
3) story any good?

And what's the best class?
 

Saitou

Banned
Pureauthor said:
No, they are most certainly not required at any point in the game, unlike the Protector.
Enlighten me. How would you deal with high defense randoms in a way that doesn't involve boost running or flee?
Okay, I'll this game, but:

1) random battles?
2) like a FP Diablo 2?
3) story any good?

And what's the best class?
Random battles, yes. First person Diablo2? Uh.... no, I don't think so. The story is light and mostly subtextual, but in my opinion more than just good.

Best class is Medic, because you can never have enough Medics.

Which reminds me, I still have to try out a five Medic run.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
The worst two classes in the game are Ronin and Hexer.

The best are Medic, Survivalist, and Protector.

The Alchemist, Troubador, and Landshark are all really good.

The Dark Hunter is fairly meh, but better than those first two.
 

Saitou

Banned
Man God said:
The worst two classes in the game are Ronin and Hexer.

The best are Medic, Survivalist, and Protector.

The Alchemist, Troubador, and Landshark are all really good.

The Dark Hunter is fairly meh, but better than those first two.
wat
 

TheExodu5

Banned
What would be the best party then? I took a look at all the classes, and figured if I were to get this game, my party would consist of:

Landshark
Protector
Dark Hunter
Alchemist
Medic
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
You heard me.

Hexer has trouble doing damage, Ronin takes up buff slots and has shitty armor.

Protector is the best unit in the first stratum and the second best in the last, and basically necessary to beat the games final four bosses.

Landshark is the best unit for random battles, and has good armor compared to the ronin. The damage difference between the two is negligable.

Alchemists make the game easier. Instead of taking twenty turns on an Iron Crab you can kill it in one. Combined with a Survivalist they can kill any threatening random encounter in two moves. Combined with a troubador they can stay down in the dungeon forever.

Medic is just the best unit in the game. Front row with full attack, near complete protection with a boosted immunize, and a near full hp heal for the entire party with a Salve II.

Survivalists do great damage from the back row, and 1st turn allows you to do some very satisfying things.

Dark Hunters can do many varied things, but they like Ronins have pretty shitty armor for the front row and other classes can deal damage a lot faster. A Sword DH with a Shinryu can do the job pretty well with some basically unique status effects.

Ronins blow.

PSLAM is the best party to start with.

You should start training a Troubador for the end of the game, as they become damn useful by the middle/end of the game. Good for leveling, absolutely needed for end game stuff. Replace either the Alchemist or Surivivalist.
 

Saitou

Banned
I'm not saying Ronin's are the best, but they are certainly not as bad as you make them sound. And going by how you say that Hexers have trouble dealing damage, it seems you entirely missed the hexer's role (pssst, they're not supposed to deal damage).

However, my biggest gripe is the Protector. Being necessary to survive certain bosses and being the best are two completely separate things (same with Alchemist).

It might be good in the first stratum, but even a Hexer can dish out damage in the first stratum.
Protectors never really have the ability to deal damage effectively, and Smite sucks up too much TP to be viable outside FOE or boss battles. And even then, it's not all that good.
A second Landsknecht is better than a Protector as long as you keep out of the last stratum.

As for Dark hunters, Whip Hunters have that whip that lets them boost every five attacks (or four with Boost Up), plus Climax. A Sword Hunter with Drain should never lose HP.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Well, considering my definition of best in this case includes beating the game and getting everything, then yes, the Protectors are on my best list.

If I ever played it again I probably would take it out during the middle of the game, you are right about that. I never had a problem with Smite's TP cost because I either had a troubador or a ton of TP replenishing items availible at all times in the end.

By the time boosting becomes a big deal I had items that could do it for me, then again I really do like DHs, I could never find a role for them.

I know Hexers don't do damage (except for one crazy build) what I'm saying is that while you are setting up an enemy to fall using their unique abilities you could be doing damage to it. Hexers don't work fast enough, and there is a lot of luck involved, and some things are just outright immune to some of their effects, while basically no one is immune to an all out damage rush.
 

Tortolia

Member
Saitou said:
Enlighten me. How would you deal with high defense randoms in a way that doesn't involve boost running or flee?

While I didn't fully complete the sixth strata (didn't feel like making a Protector to deal with the bosses) I did explore it up to the last set of doors. My party was Landsknecht, Dark Hunter, Troubadour, Medic, Hexer.

For the enemies in the strata with high physical defense, I simply had the Troubadour throw one of the elemental damage songs onto the Landsknecht (and if I was impatient, the Dark Hunter). Few turns later, enemies were dead. I ended up using those encounters as a way to restore my party's TP with the Troubadour's TP regen song. If I'd gotten a Volt Whip for the Dark Hunter I might not have even had to use the element songs - I was instead using the special whip that let her boost every four turns or so.

So no, Alchemists weren't necessary for those encounters. That's not to say they wouldn't be handy for other battles, but it's not like their elemental nukes were the only solution.
 
Arrrgh! This game does NOT have random battles!

The battles are counted by steps. Once you make a certain number of steps, the chance of battling increases. If the step counter is red, you're guaranteed to have a battle in the next few steps. The only way to avoid this is by using something like Gold Charm or going onto another stratum.

Also, high-defense randoms can be dealt with by using a Hexer's Frailty spell, rather than an Alchemist. Alchemists are useless in the lower stratums, sadly.
 

TheExodu5

Banned
Death_Born said:
Arrrgh! This game does NOT have random battles!

The battles are counted by steps. Once you make a certain number of steps, the chance of battling increases. If the step counter is red, you're guaranteed to have a battle in the next few steps. The only way to avoid this is by using something like Gold Charm or going onto another stratum.

That's how every game with random battles works, except that you don't have a visible orb.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Death_Born said:
Arrrgh! This game does NOT have random battles!

The battles are counted by steps. Once you make a certain number of steps, the chance of battling increases. If the step counter is red, you're guaranteed to have a battle in the next few steps. The only way to avoid this is by using something like Gold Charm or going onto another stratum.

Also, high-defense randoms can be dealt with by using a Hexer's Frailty spell, rather than an Alchemist. Alchemists are useless in the lower stratums, sadly.

Well, considering that is how Random encounters have been handled in video games since time immemorial...

Also A fully kitted out Alechemist will one shot an entire party of iron crabs. That does not sound like useless to me. They can also one shot those annoying enemies that sleep or petrify your whole party. This is not useless.
 

Riou

Member
Man God said:
Landshark is the best unit for random battles, and has good armor compared to the ronin. The damage difference between the two is negligable.

PSLAM is the best party to start with.

You should start training a Troubador for the end of the game, as they become damn useful by the middle/end of the game. Good for leveling, absolutely needed for end game stuff. Replace either the Alchemist or Surivivalist.

The Landshark is the best unit for random battles because of its all-slash skill, but i have to disagree with you when you say that the damage between the ronin and the landshark is negligible. Firstly you can't really compare the two when your talking about multi-targeting skills because the ronin has no skill that hits multiple enemies. So i'm going to assume that your talking about single targeting damage, and in this department, the ronin is A LOT better then the landshark. The landshark has no good single targeting skill (its best skills is crush which only gives 210% damage) while the ronin has Midareba (3 strikes of 120% damage) which is a lot better. Even if you consider a landshark with Hell cry, the ronin still does more damage and the fact that now the landshark is wasting a buff slot.

I agree with you when you said to train a Troubadour mid game because their extra exp skill is really nice, but i have to say that people should replace their alchemist instead of their Survivalist. Survivalist are just too good. With apollon and multihit, Survivalist have the highest damage out-put in the game.
 

justchris

Member
Lord Helmet said:
30

I finally beat the main quest last night. Can't wait for EO2.
Time to see what the post game holds...


Death. The post game holds death. Lots and lots of death. Every single one of the optional bosses will instagack you if you don't already know what to expect.
 

justchris

Member
Man God said:
The Alchemist, Troubador, and Landshark are all really good.

TheExodu5 said:
What would be the best party then? I took a look at all the classes, and figured if I were to get this game, my party would consist of:

Landshark
Protector
Dark Hunter
Alchemist
Medic

How can you not think Landshark is the best class? I thought I was doing good with the Landsknecht, but if I'd known you could play a Landshark :lol
 
TheExodu5 said:
That's how every game with random battles works, except that you don't have a visible orb.

Well, at least you are able to see when you are about to battle. it's much more convenient.
 
Play with whatever config you want, I'm using a pretty unconventional skill distribution on my characters and am sailing through the final floors. Feel free to be flexible.
 
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