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Daily Kos founder: Our polling for the last year and a half is "bunk"
- Thread starter Gaborn
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FoneBone said:
That's true of a lot of memorable statements with the way search is now. Are you really going to deny that discussion? REALLY?
Ah yes, the old "lulz you're wrong"... without clarifying your position. I think I know what you're referring to though. Glass was hired by Sullivan before Sullivan left TNR but shortly thereafter his plagiarism was exposed. Of course if that is what you're referring to you might want to look a little closer. The combination of the two scandals were substantially viewed as a failure in vetting and oversight by Sullivan, he was careless. I still personally like the guy and often find his writing entertaining though. And if you were referring to some other mysterious thing then I'll let you just think you're being such a CLEVER person by sitting there smugly thinking you're superior and playing "guess again" like a 5 year old.
Not according to most of the articles I can find. Of course, there are better reasons to hate Sullivan, like his years of right-wing cocksucking, backwards sexual politics, and endorsement of racism.Gaborn said:
EDIT: and AGAIN, what the FUCK does election polling have to do with voter fraud? :lol
FoneBone said:
Yeah, forcing people to get a photo ID (Especially when it's FREE) is a fucking stupid and onerous requirement. How horrible to actually have to prove that you're the person you say you are when you vote. I mean, it just totally destroys the idea of ballot box stuffing! The horror!
Edit: The reason I mentioned it is because it seemed like some people were going to start condemning Rasmussen Reports (which may or may be a good call, though I haven't seen any evidence that their polling is bad), and I remembered you (though in fairness it was PROBABLY scorcho) arguing essentially that voters shouldn't be forced to provide evidence of their identity before being allowed to vote beyond identifying themselves by name. Which goes against the idea of accusing an organization of fraud without, you know, evidence.
Edit 2: I'm too tired to dig it up now. We can agree that yes, Sullivan is more of a conservative than a liberal and I know you don't like that. also that he's done some rather unfortunate things in his personal life (barebacking with people including interested HIV negative people).
adamsappel
Member
Gaborn, do you hold your esteemed Dr. Paul to the same standard as Kos, when Paul was publishing ghost-written racist screeds under his own name and masthead?
And I also remember your ridiculous arguments about voter fraud, where you were so worried that enough people might vote in place of their ill or vacationing neighbors as to influence an election. :lol
And I also remember your ridiculous arguments about voter fraud, where you were so worried that enough people might vote in place of their ill or vacationing neighbors as to influence an election. :lol
adamsappel said:
Yes and no. Moulitsas was directly involved in the day to day runnings of DailyKos and he actively contracted with and paid for the results produced by R2K. Paul has said that he wasn't really involved in the news letter and he basically was careless with his name. Paul deserved ample criticism for that, I think it was a beyond terrible lapse in judgement on his part. I don't think he knew about it when it was going on though because it doesn't fit with any of his other public writings or seeming personality. So in that sense I suppose I give him a little more of a pass.
In both cases both deserve some criticism though, but I do think the level of involvement in each project to some degree influences how much blame I see each having with their respective scandals.
This is not even remotely plausible.Gaborn said:
http://ronpaulsurvivalreport.blogspot.com/2007/12/faq-ron-paul-and-his-racist-newsletter.html
get therapy :lol :lol :lolGaborn said:
FoneBone said:
Whether or not you think it's "plausible" that's pretty much been accepted by... well, frankly, just about everyone, though I'm sure you can find some people who disagree :lol :lol
edit: Fone - Therapy? Really? Wow, new low in personal attacks, wheee! I did find the exchange I was referring to in that thread you dug up, from post 225 onward the exchange I had with scorcho I found ridiculous. I apologize I thought it was you though. Anyway, I'm tired of being insulted by you, In fact, I'm just plain tired. Go ahead and continue with your snarkiness, I really have little interest in engaging in it with you at this point, I generally prefer more civil discussions than you provide.
edit: New post by you just confirms my decision. Good night to you!
It is not accepted by "pretty much" anyone who wasn't rhetorically sucking Ron Paul's cock during the entirety of his campaign, as "pretty much" all those people have triple-digit IQs, something sorely lacking among PaultardsGaborn said:
EDIT: The "this" i'm referring to is your statement that Paul was actually unaware of the newsletters' contents. That his public views don't fully with the views in the letters hardly proves anything. You could always trot out that tired "ugliest form of collectivism" quote for a good laugh, though.
Gaborn said:
Yeah, sorry Gaborn, you're out to sea on this one. Paul has been caught red-handed on this one. He defended it during the period stated, denied it later, so he's caught in utter BS twice, no matter how you slice it. And it's badgered him for more than a decade so it's not like he simply forgot either.
He's a racist. Or was a racist, and is magically cured.
No point defending him by proxy. Let's just move along.
This is simply hysterical. The reasons are obvious enough about why you're excusing Paul, but for Kos:Gaborn said:
R2K was a respected pollster with a long track record and dozens of media clients. He did his vetting, as you pointed out. And I'm still not sure what he should do that he has not done, but which you are demanding. Take responsibility? Done. Disavow the polls? Done. Disclose what he's found to the public? Done. He's done what Paul didn't, actually.
I believe you were making excuses about Ron Paul's newsletter, essentially making excuses for his making excuses. Carry on.
Seriously, I don't really care about polls, but seems to me the guy's done all he can. Non story, move on. This is how you own a problem right here, in my opinion of course. He's disavowed the work, thrown every poll ever done by them by the wayside, made all the data he can public and is suing them, this is the free market taking care of itself! How else was he to regulate it? Hire 3 pollsters and average them all? Hire a statistician to check all the work before hand, what the fuck has he hired those guys to do?GhaleonEB said:
Fuck. Nothing to see here, move along is all I can say.
polyh3dron
Banned
Their polling is so bad even THEY admit it's bad (it must really suck the right guys??). That's why I'd rather believe Fox News's polls. They present the facts to the viewers and let them decide.
speculawyer
Member
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speculawyer
Member
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ClassyPenguin
Banned
Well, streets that are named after MLK tend to be the shittiest, so he's not far off.:lolOuterWorldVoice said:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme..._files_suit_against_research_2000.php?ref=fpb
Suit officially filed, as of yesterday. TPM highlighted a hysterical exchange, in which the R2K founder delays sending Kos the raw poll results because all their computers suddenly stopped being able to send attachments and he was trapped at Kinkos, or something. :lol
Suit officially filed, as of yesterday. TPM highlighted a hysterical exchange, in which the R2K founder delays sending Kos the raw poll results because all their computers suddenly stopped being able to send attachments and he was trapped at Kinkos, or something. :lol
29. On Monday, June 14, 2010, Moulitsas approached Ali with his concerns. In response, Ali promised via email on that date to provide Moulitsas with the raw data from which the polling results were constructed to verify their validity.
30. On Wednesday, June 16, 2010, Ali emailed Moulitsas with regards to the raw data, stating that "you can expect it either Friday, if not, no later than Monday."
31. On Monday, June 21, Ali again stalled, emailing Moulitsas to state: "I am at a Kinkos computer because we cannot read any mail from our PC,s [sic] and cannot attached [sic] any documents or files to send. Reading email from my cell. Just got to a Kinkos. Computer Geeks cannot do anything until tomorrow morning."
32. As of this date, Wednesday June 30, 2010, despite numerous requests from Moulitsas and purported commitments from Ali to provide the raw data which could verify Research 2000's polling's validity, Ali has refused to provide this data.
30. On Wednesday, June 16, 2010, Ali emailed Moulitsas with regards to the raw data, stating that "you can expect it either Friday, if not, no later than Monday."
31. On Monday, June 21, Ali again stalled, emailing Moulitsas to state: "I am at a Kinkos computer because we cannot read any mail from our PC,s [sic] and cannot attached [sic] any documents or files to send. Reading email from my cell. Just got to a Kinkos. Computer Geeks cannot do anything until tomorrow morning."
32. As of this date, Wednesday June 30, 2010, despite numerous requests from Moulitsas and purported commitments from Ali to provide the raw data which could verify Research 2000's polling's validity, Ali has refused to provide this data.
OuterWorldVoice said:
Yes, some Air America hosts are part of the objective media I was talking about having agreed that Paul's statement is probably how things happened more or less. Seriously? I mean, SERIOUSLY? You're using a couple of air america hosts to make your point? That's like some Republican claiming that Dubya was a great president and using Limbaugh to back him up. :lol :lol :lol :lol well, except some people actually listen to Limbaugh (personally I can't stand the man).
I would say though that the "decades" that the guy mentioned doesn't make much sense. The Newsletters themselves existed for decades, but I believe you'll find the controversial period Paul didn't write them was a couple years, not the entire run of the publication. So, he's not even doing basic fact checking there which is kind of odd if you're trying to claim he was a journalist or something.
Seriously though, Dr. Paul isn't the issue here and this has been discussed thoroughly and repeatedly for years on and off. Can we keep this on Moulitsas?
FoneBone said:
I slightly underestimated that. It was 8 years. Still not the "decades" suggested by the Air America drone from roughly 1988 to 1996
From here
What source do you have that contradicts that claim or in any way supports the "decades" claim? And what does Paul have to do with Moulitsas?
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