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donkey kong country (snes) is not just mediocre, it's downright awful

jarosh

Member
dkc is one of the few snes games that i never really bothered to re-play until now. and i remembered it being mediocre. but, jesus christ, i must have somehow blocked out how vile, repititive, arbitrary and amateurish the level design truly was...

there is not a semblance of logic or coherence to the level and world design; the stages all seem to consist of a basic template over which obstacles and enemies are randomly placed, while the changes to the (boring) terrain remain superficial and mostly cosmetic. most of the enemies are seemingly interchangable dummies, designed, animated and rendered without potential use or location in mind:

"let's have a bunch of snakes randomly fall from the ceiling here, over here we'll have a kremling without a jumping animation bounce around, next up are 20 bees moving along increasingly random paths at varying speeds. same for the next level. actually, those bees are getting boring, just replace them with spikey wheels, no one will notice."

that rigidness and the mechanical and unnatural placement and use of enemies and obstacles are at odds with and stand in stark contrast to the otherwise organic (if dated) looking visuals and the terrain, which while never interesting to traverse still feels more natural than the heavily tile-based look of so many 8- and 16-bit platformers.

there is also rarely a real sense of progression as you run and jump through the various levels; not much thought was put into the actual pacing within the levels themselves. often there is no real build-up or change of pace, no increasing feel or sign of reaching the end of a level. many levels just kind of trickle away or end just like they started, instead of culminating in a climax or deliberately winding down.

and then there's the boring and creatively bankrupt bosses, two of which are recycled later on. a big barrel spitting out a bunch of enemies? that has to be the creative low-point in boss design in rare's development history. and that stupid bird head? twice! once with a palette swap! same with the beaver boss, which itself was already just a bigger render of the beaver level enemies.

most of the "challenge" in dkc derives from the extremely imprecise collision detection, the many "leaps of faith" you're forced to make thanks to the wonky, wobbly, dizziness-inducing camera with a mind of its own. the designers also seemed to think that an increasing difficulty curve simply meant: same levels, more enemies. instead of making changes to the terrain and introducing more complex and interesting platforming challenges, later on you get the same basic layouts with a higher enemy count.

rare also apparently didn't understand the importance of properly introducing and explaining new game mechanics, obstacles or gimmicks. often you are expected to die or fail before you finally understand how certain things work and at what point enemies pop up or get in your way unexpectedly. this is the complete opposite of the mario/nintendo/valve school of design, in which new gimmicks and important mechanics are introduced in a subtle, non-threatening manner that teaches the player how to respond to them or how they work without undeserved punishment. this leads to an experience that, despite not being overly difficult, still often feels frustrating. it's the kind of game that punishes you for not anticipating its nonsensical design quirks and its tendency to throw you into situations that require guesswork. i'd get annoyed frequently because i'd feel like my deaths were the game's fault and not my own.

---------

now, donkey kong country 2 is arguably the better game. it fixes many of the first game's problems with the level design and introduces a more varied and well-thought-out cast of enemies and a wider variety of level backdrops and obstacles. the pacing still hasn't improved for the most part, but at least now there are some real platforming challenges and some more interesting, almost maze-like levels. often these just serve to highlight the imprecise collision detection, however, especially when navigating the levels with one of your animal buddies. because the terrain itself offers a bigger challenge and there are more vertical levels, there are even more instances now where you'll fall (sometimes to your death), seemingly clipping through walls and floors because you can't tell what the designers meant for you to walk on. it introduces other new problems as well, among them the new save system that needs payment and the heavy reliance on collecting things in general: at least three different kinds of coins, only two of which are saved when you quit the game. why? so you can't "abuse" the save system, which lets you save once per world and then wants the "perishable" coin for payment? then why offer it in such abundance? hoarding them is pointless if you don't plan on finishing the game in one sitting, but even then: losing all your lives means losing all of these coins as well, even if you do keep playing.

that said, dkc 2 is clearly the better game. but it's still just a painfully average one. and i have yet to play dkc 3.


i know this is a lot of text, so here's your tl;dr version:
donkey kong country kinda sucks
 

Amneisac

Member
I think you could do what you did to any video game ever created. You should start a recurring series of reductionist reviews. It'd be good for a hoot.

Edit: and since I wasn't clear, I completely disagree and I'm sorry your parents never bought you a SNES when you were a kid, Genesis had a few cool games too, bro.
 

Relix

he's Virgin Tight™
Wow. Someone out there hates DKC. I am honestly surprised :lol :lol !!

I am replaying the DKC games. Yes they haven't aged the best but they are fun. And DKC2 is pretty damn hard.
 

Cdammen

Member
Yes, I agree with mostly all that was said in the OP. I find it funny that the old Swedish gaming mag SuperPLAY gave it 100/100 (or something close to 100, maybe 97) when it was reviewed :lol

I never understood the hype for it, not even when it was released.

(EDIT) But the music was fucking awesome.

I remember the reviewer regretted the score later on.
 
Oh man, what a hornet's nest to kick. :)

I'm actually not a big fan of DKC myself, but the levels are pretty clearly designed for expert speed runs, and designed well in that regard. I did think it was a bit underwhelming overall to pick my way through the first time, though. And I had major issues with the collision detection too.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Awesome. :lol

All I know of this series is that it has some pretty great music. Never played it.

I don't think I'd enjoy it much, but that's mostly because I don't like 16-bit platformers in general anymore.

EDIT: Actually, I could apply much of what you wrote in the OP to a lot of platformers of DKC's day, now that I think about it.
 

JSnake

Member
Yeah, DKC1 really hasn't aged well. Shit just ain't good anymore. DKC2, on the other hand, is one of the best platformers ever.
 

Chemo

Member
This is a fact. DKC is a huge piece of shit, and easily one of the most overrated games of all time.
 

jarosh

Member
JasoNsider said:
FFS, come on Jarosh. I expect better from you.
i assume what you expected was that i praise dkc? would that have been "better"?

this is in no way a troll thread btw. i wouldn't have bothered to type up so much if this wasn't my honest opinion.
 

Nemo

Will Eat Your Children
Amneisac said:
I think you could do what you did to any video game ever created. You should start a recurring series of reductionist reviews. It'd be good for a hoot.
This x 1000. You're just attention whoring here. Sorry
 

Princess Skittles

Prince's's 'Skittle's
I've never really like any of the DKC games, even when they were released.

I always felt they were middling character platformers elevated to the stratosphere by a fancy new (but still ugly at the time to me) graphic technique.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
OP: FOR


I point to it as the downfall of 2d "platformers". All style over substance. You still have a large fanbase for it because it's 1) Nintendo 2) one of the first games that scratched that OCD itch that many gamers have (gotta collect em all).
 

D-Pad

Member
How hard was it not to capitalize any word in that post? Reaching for shift is too natural for me to wrap my head around you not struggling with that.

Anyway, the collision detecting issue is especially apparent in that damn level with the orangatangs that toss barrels at you, as I've found out last week or so. I've never thrown my controller in such a rage before. That said, I had so much fun going back through the game for the first time in years.
 

Shig

Strap on your hooker ...
rare also apparently didn't understand the importance of properly introducing and explaining new game mechanics, obstacles or gimmicks. often you are expected to die or fail before you finally understand how certain things work and at what point enemies pop up or get in your way unexpectedly.
Coming from someone who puts Mega Man games on a pedestal, this is a pretty rich criticism.

DKC's super-overrated, but it's serviceable.
 

jarosh

Member
Teetris said:
This x 1000. You're just attention whoring here. Sorry
i'm sure you wouldn't call it attention whoring if the op was a dkc love fest with twice as much text, am i right or am i right?
 

BreakyBoy

o_O @_@ O_o
I grew up with DKC too. I enjoyed it back then. I have done a few replays and thanks to my nostalgia goggles, and my own propensity for liking a challenge (even a poorly designed one), I still can enjoy it. Also, the phenomenal soundtrack helps gloss over many of the problems. Chrono Cross and Xenogears pull the same trick with their respective OSTs. His problems are all spot on.

Y'all drink too much Kool Aid.

Preach on jarosh. Someone has to now that Segs is gone.

segata-neverforget.png
 

vixlar

Member
And with all of that problems, I loved that game... I blame Club Nintendo (mexican Nintendo official magazine)
 
I kind of agree with you. Although, I did enjoy DKC a lot at the time, in retrospect apart from the excellent presentation, it was a pretty run-of-the-mill platformer with boring level design and a very low difficulty level.

That's why it's so surprising how good the sequel is. Definitely a classic and
one of the best games on the SNES. Given how well the original sold Rare could
have easily just given us more of the same, but instead they really focused on making a better overall game.

That's why it's such a shame Retro seem to be taking most of the inspiration for DKC Returns from the original game...
 

Ezalc

Member
Well to be honest I didn't read the OP, I'm just here to see how all this is going to turn out. But hey you should keep doing things like this, the thread will always be entertaining when somebody eventually becomes pissy and blows up about your opinion.
 
the visuals alone kept me away from the game on release day. watched others playing for a bit and it was boring.

saved me alot of time to spend with better and prettier games.
 
Strongly disagree. I don't recall any difficulty in understanding the mechanics, and a strong love of the game comes from the speed and agility at which the characters move. There's a smoothness to the movement that places it somewhere between Mario and Sonic, and I loved that.

DKC1, yeah, there's a definite argument there for being plain and average, but DKC2 is downright fantastic to play.
 

Princess Skittles

Prince's's 'Skittle's
It always depressed me at the time that EVERYBODY I knew played and loved the Donkey Kong Country games and barely anybody touched Yoshi's Island.
 

Sealda

Banned
I agree DKC is mediocre. Do not mind the haters, they are just being nostalgic. After all, when you are 10 year old you do not really appreciate map design etc. as much as graphics...
 
D

Deleted member 8095

Unconfirmed Member
Man, I was a Genesis kid and even I loved DKC. Fuck, awesome game with arguably the best soundtrack of the 16 bit era.
 

Haunted

Member
The way the enemies and models are rendered was amazing at the time. Great animation really bringing the charming characters to life. That along with the good sense of art direction and brilliant soundtrack is enough to make it a memorable game on its own.


I do agree that there are some problems with the level design, though. Some arbitrarily placed "hidden" bonus barrels and sometimes obtuse level design (and camera distance, I daresay) required leaps of faith that weren't really necessary. Also agreed on the lazy boss design, no excuses there.

As a whole, it was a great romp and laid the solid groundwork for the even more amazing DKC2.


fake edit: People calling jarosh an attention whore are wrong and doing a disservice to the effort he's put into writing up his opinion on the game.
 

X26

Banned
I loved all 3 DKC games on the SNES, as far as I'm concerned your post in nothing but blasphemy

Also I'm not sure why logic would be expected, you play as a gorilla wearing a tie
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
Next thread : Yoshi is the less cute baby dinosaur ever.
 

GCX

Member
I think this might the first time in GAF's history when there's three Donkey Kong Country threads on first page.
 
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