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donkey kong country (snes) is not just mediocre, it's downright awful

What's wrong with the collisions in DKC? I haven't replayed it recently, but back then it never felt like it was cheap or anything. Sure the game isn't as creative and original as your typical Mario game, but the quality of the realisation really made it stand out. Great controls, godlike soundtrack and visuals. The visuals haven't aged that well, but it still look nice the only thing that bugs me these days are the grey pixels around Diddy's sprite :lol
 
Shig said:
Coming from someone who puts Mega Man games on a pedestal, this is a pretty rich criticism.

DKC's super-overrated, but it's serviceable.

I honestly don't think any particular Mega Man game--at least the early ones, I'm not a series expert--is more trial-and-error than DKC. Yeah, the floating blocks and Quickman's stage are pretty much impossible to get through on one try, but the rest is fair enough. And of course Mega Man's health bar makes for a much larger margin of error.
 
I felt DKC was pretty shallow 'way back then when I first played it. Your complaints are valid, but overstated. You could level many of those against, say, Super Mario Bros (truthfully or not).

No, it's mediocre.
 

Jazzem

Member
Well, this is interesting :p

It's been probably a year or so since I played DKC so I can't really argue point by point, but one thing I found interesting was your point about levels not really building up to an end. The weird thing is I always got that impression to some extent from each of the DK games. They'd usually save the hardest part for last, or there'd be a long final stretch of sorts before the end.

Enemy placement too always seemed cleverly done to me, these games feel like a speed runner's dream with everything in place to help you hurtle through if you know what you're doing. Maybe it suffers somewhat if you go at it via a different approach.

I'll agree on the bosses, they're not horrible but they are incredibly uncreative. Definitely something improved in the sequels (and to be fair the K Rool fight is awesome).

I dunno, I've always enjoyed these games (I grew up with the DK Land games on Game Boy) and felt they were well designed and enjoyable, but I'll agree that the hype DKC got was ridiculous. Long live the graphic whores eh :/ Thankfully for most of us DKC was, more importantly, a fun game to play with an even better sequel :D

I'd be interested in someone more qualified arguing point by point with the op.
 

Haunted

Member
RockmanWhore said:
What's wrong with the collisions in DKC? I haven't replayed it recently, but back then it never felt like it was cheap or anything. Sure the game isn't as creative and original as your typical Mario game, but the quality of the realisation really made it stand out. Great controls, godlike soundtrack and visuals. The visuals haven't aged that well, but it still look nice the only thing that bugs me these days are the grey pixels around Diddy's sprite :lol
The collisions with DK and Diddy were fine, I felt. The animals were a bit looser on the box, especially Rambi and the Swordfish (forgot its name).
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Fersis said:
Next thread : Yoshi is the less cute baby dinosaur ever.
I never really liked Yoshi. Started to hate him once they gave him a voice, too.

Joe Shlabotnik said:
I honestly don't think any particular Mega Man game--at least the early ones, I'm not a series expert--is more trial-and-error than DKC. Yeah, the floating blocks and Quickman's stage are pretty much impossible to get through on one try, but the rest is fair enough. And of course Mega Man's health bar makes for a much larger margin of error.
Most of the vanishing block puzzles are doable first try because you can watch the whole sequence from a safe area before you actually start jumping on them.
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
The game is not perfect, but I would say it is far from mediocre and even further away from awful.

If it is, then very few 2D platformers fall in the good catergory.
 

CO_Andy

Member
While i haven't played DKC since i was a kid, everything you said rings true of Battletoads.

It's an even worse platformer, and people LOVE that game for that very reason.
 

jay

Member
Amneisac said:
I think you could do what you did to any video game ever created. You should start a recurring series of reductionist reviews. It'd be good for a hoot.

How is the OP reductionist? Saying the game sucks because it's a bunch of moving and jumping is reductionist. Saying the enemy placement is random, level design uninspired and collision detection shitty is not.
 

Sciz

Member
I came to most of the same conclusions after going through it for the first time in years a few months ago. The experience was not unlike playing through, say, Sonic Heroes.
 

GhaleonQ

Member
I would never argue that 1 or 3 are well-designed games, but Rare made it fun and intuitive to run, jump, and attack. For a lot of people, that and awesome aesthetics (which the series obvious has) are enough to make for a memorable platforming game.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
CO_Andy said:
While i haven't played DKC since i was a kid, everything you said rings true of Battletoads.

It's an even worse platformer, and people LOVE that game for that very reason.
I've been meaning to get around to actually beating that game sometime. Even though I'm pretty sure I could do it now, my NES always starts glitching out on me at some point during the game, preventing me from advancing. :(

The collision detection in that game is pretty bad, but I could get the hang of it after a while.
 

Altazor

Member
even if I adore the DKC trilogy, it clearly isn't above its problems. I do think, however, that the good outweighs the bad.

Yes, there are collision detection problems and I can understand how they can be troublesome and bother many people, yet they've never bothered me. Not when I was a kid, not now. Maybe I just grew up accustomed to them.

Yes, there could be pacing problems in some of the stages, but I haven't replayed DKC1 as much as 2, so I can't really comment on that.
 

Davidion

Member
Never understood the fascination with DKC, always thought it was a bit stale and there wasn't much joy to the mechanics compared to say, the Marios.

oh and the 2.5D sucked grainy ass. The upcoming DKC Wii at least looks good.

And Diddy Kong Racing sucks compared to Mario Kart.
 

Foxix Von

Member
I don't think I've ever played any of it outside of what was probably a 30 minute trial when I was 7.

I grew up with a genesis. I actually was just over at a friend's house a while back and they were playing DKC, and well, seeing it for the first time in years... I gotta say it looked kinda shitty or at the very least something I have no interest in playing whatsoever. So I'm inclined to agree with you OP.
 

PusherT

Junior Member
Fersis said:
Segata's banned?

No Segata had a massive "meltdown" over ironically Donkey Kong Country and DKC2:lol :lol

That what make this so funny he meltdown because he was bashing DKC series and KevinCow "big DKC fan" was harrassing him. It was funny and sad at same time. Segata was only telling it like it is:lol
 

TheExodu5

Banned
Leondexter said:
I felt DKC was pretty shallow 'way back then when I first played it. Your complaints are valid, but overstated. You could level many of those against, say, Super Mario Bros (truthfully or not).

Pretty much.

Since when has linearity and simplicity been a bad thing in platformers? I'll take that any day over the random mess and lack of direction in Sonic levels.
 

PusherT

Junior Member
Altazor said:
sheesh, play DKC2 then.
Even DKC 2 has some wonky hit detection, but the music was good and dixie was fun to play as. I was a genisis kid back then too but DKC 2 had its charms
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
Fuu said:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUU !!!!!!!!

SEGATA!!!

What a crazy way of leaving GAF.

PusherT said:
No Segata had a massive "meltdown" over ironically Donkey Kong Country and DKC2:lol :lol

That what make this so funny he meltdown because he was bashing DKC series and KevinCow "big DKC fan" was harrassing him. It was funny and sad at same time. Segata was only telling it like it is:lol
Hope he comes back.
But i dont agree with sales talk being one of GAF's best 'attributes'.
 

bounchfx

Member
hahahaha. DKC is fucking fantastic. one of the games I can replay this day and age and still find it to be super enjoyable.
 

jarosh

Member
Shig said:
Coming from someone who puts Mega Man games on a pedestal, this is a pretty rich criticism.

DKC's super-overrated, but it's serviceable.
i was expecting the mega man mention when i wrote that :lol

mega man isn't the only popular game or the only game that i like with the design philosophy you're hinting at. there are some key differences though. look at the recently released super meat boy (which i'm personally not a huge fan of but i still think serves as a good example of this) and why it got so much critical acclaim. its whole premise is built on dying over and over again until you master a level and memorize everything. many classic games i love are built upon a similar premise. but look at what these games do differently and how they punish or don't punish the player for certain things. meat boy for example doesn't have lives at all and you are never thrown back to the last save point, potentially losing a lot of progress because you die a lot. the game just keeps going until you succeed. dying is built into the core of the game, it's part of the experience. and once you master the controls you realize that any of the obstacles can be overcome and that dying is (mostly) the result of not having mastered the game yet.

on the other hand, i'm not nostalgic for a lot of older games that are punishingly hard and often make you lose a lot of progress AND have limited continues. but mega man is NOT part of those games. it might be vicious at times. but once you reach the end of your lives you are only thrown back to the beginning of a stage (aka to the stage select screen). and believe it or not, if you play carefully there is not a single instance that i can recall in which obstacles or enemies are unavoidable or not beatable on your first try. but playing carefully is boring so you will die a LOT if you're not too familiar with the classic games. it's all a matter of balance though. and of course bosses need to be studied first and you will die often doing so before you beat them. but you get the chance to do just that: you have a health bar and don't die instantly when hit by a robot master's weapons. and once you die you can try to beat the boss and learn the patterns until you run out of lives, then you have to do the level over again. it's all about proper balance. games can be punishingly hard and still be fair.

maybe i should have added that those frustrating moments in dkc are at odds with the rest of its design. you run and jump through the levels at a fast pace and it is NOT an overly difficult game, so those frustrating instances stand out. and losing all of your lives means going back to your last save and potentially losing several levels of progress. those are the things that make the sudden occurrence of enemies and obstacles that kill you instantly all the more jarring. it feels like there are two different philosphies at play here that don't jive with each other.
 

genjiZERO

Member
DKC1 and (especially) 2 are masterful platformers from the 16bit days. I play them to this day, and I don't think there's anything wrong with them. I thought 3 was pretty bad - but that's only relative to the first 2. In comparison to all platformers of the day it's still really good. In fact I dare say, that few platformers have surpassed DKC2 even to this day. Even in this generation ,where systems are powerful enough to fold macromolecules, you'd think making a simple "sprites" jump on and over shit would be easy, but to me it appears developers can't seem to get it right - everything is so "floaty". To be sure DKC didn't have the best physics (side note: I swear this is a Western thing. I'm not using this as an excuse to hate on Western development, but Japanese games in general really do seem to have better physics - to me anyway) - Hell, SMB3 (and later SoTN) for some reason seems to be the height of platforming physics - but it's still 'pretty good' and I never did (and still don't) have a problem with it - it's never detracted from my gaming experience.

Anyway,

Everyone on the first page said:
 

CO_Andy

Member
Sixfortyfive said:
I've been meaning to get around to actually beating that game sometime. Even though I'm pretty sure I could do it now, my NES always starts glitching out on me at some point during the game, preventing me from advancing. :(

The collision detection in that game is pretty bad, but I could get the hang of it after a while.
You aught to play the Genesis port. It's quite faithful to the original.
 
Fuu said:

drama-queen-3.gif


Anyway, OP, you suck. DKC is a mature game for mature gamers. Go play Peggle.
 
This is one of a few games that made me jealous of my SNES owning friends. Amazing graphics for the time, great music, and I thought the level design was fine. What a weird thread for someone to make.
 

zigg

Member
Thank God someone said it. I had been trying DKC a little this year for a second time (the first one, I'd quit in the first handful of levels), trying to figure out what makes it so beloved—I'd originally missed out on the SNES era—and I had come to the conclusion that it was maybe above average. It wasn't hard, but it sure could be cheap. Sure looked good, though, apart from the googly-eyed crap and the strange enemy motions.

Maybe if I'm really bored someday I'll have to check out 2 or 3.
 

Londa

Banned
They don't have a jumping animation because they are suppose to be bouncing not jumping.

The OP is 100% opinion so I will not take it as fact.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
TeethMummy said:
get a blog.

:lol :lol :lol

Seriously, though, I disagree with a lot of what you say. I think the game is good (although I do agree with the thought that the collision detection was bad).

DKC2, however, is a masterpiece.
 

pirata

Member
jarosh said:
that said, dkc 2 is clearly the better game. but it's still just a painfully average one.



If by "painfully average" you mean "the best game ever made," then sure. I can understand someone ragging on the first game, as it does have a lot of problems, but I mostly see it as a test run for DKC2, anyway.


Donkey Kong Country 2 happens to be my favorite game. Nostalgia probably factors into this a bit, but that alone can't explain why it feels so fucking amazing to play all of these years later.
 

genjiZERO

Member
Sixfortyfive said:
Every kart racer sucks, without exception.

Jesus, the chances of getting any productive conversation in the thread isn't going to happen is it? I know OP's topic is absurd - in and of itself - but I was hoping the tread would evolve into a discussion on what conditions are needed to make a successful platformer, not devolve into sense and baseless genre hating.

Don't take the above personally, it's not directed specifically at you. I'm sure you are a fine human being.
 

Jme

Member
I can actually agree with a lot of what you said.

I love the DKC games. I never really analyzed the level design, and I never compared them to Mario games for example I took them at face value. What that boiled down to was, 'is this game fun to play?' It was (and still is).

However, after reading your analysis I can't help but agree with you on most points. The enemy placement is arbitrary. The level design is random, and heavily recycled. But, also, with only a few choice exceptions, this was just the way games were back then. At least platformers. They were all extremely linear, with no real rhyme or reason as to why there was a jump here, or a floating platform there, or why this enemy just walks back and forth on top of this random horizontal surface, or why that enemy just flys up and down in this random vertical path, aside from the fact that I need, for whatever reason, to cross it.

They were designed primarily to look good, control well, and offer a challenge. Not to be traversed with a semblance of natural progression and realistic terrain. No, you just walked right until you had a dead stop with a boss, and defeating him somehow meant that just beyond him, it was no longer a desert, but a volcano, or an ice world, or whatever.

So, while most of what you said is true, it's not really a fair way to critique DKC. Because the same could be said of many games, Sonic, Mario, et al. included.

Bottom line: while shallow, it was still fun.
 
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