Support NeoGAF

[TheExodu5]

You don't see anything wrong with somebody making a long well stated argument only to be met with a series of one line ad hominem attacks?

I do.

I'm just trying to get a feel for these (somewhat) newly enforced rules, as this has been a common type of response in this kind of thread before...let's just say I didn't feel there was a precedent. Maybe I haven't been keeping up enough with GAF lately.

If I were to post, for example "I respectfully disagree"...would it still be considered a troll post without argument to back it up?

I'm not arguing against the ban...in fact you're right in that these type of responses discourages proper discussion. I was just looking for clarification.

 

[Fantasy Final]

You like Too Human and Final Fantasy XIII?

A pyrrhic victory.

I never played Too Human so I don't hate or love it. But yeah, I loved FFXIII and played the shit out of it. I agree it's not the best FF out there but the GAF hate for this game doesn't match the quality of the game at all.

 

[Stumpokapow]

One other good thing I can say about the whole DKC series; it's got a very lush, organic feel to it that no other series does. 99% of the levels are composed entirely of natural components; reefs, hills, trees, ledges, etc. Almost nothing in the level design (besides the enemies) feels like a floating piece of level design. The music has a very organic feel to it as well and I think these things put together make it feel like one of the most authentically outdoors videogames ever made

Edit: Exodu5 from my point of view (again, they weren't my bans) a non-insulting version of those posts would not be bannable, but I also wouldn't make that post myself. What's the point? It's like a little wisp of air. It has absolutely no impact on the conversation.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Reading this thread reminds me of the rumor back when DKC first hit. That you could unlock a version of the original Donkey Kong coin op but with the rendered graphics.

I loved this game when it first hit in the 90s, but replaying it now it has lost some of its charm. It is still a damn fun game, but not near the level of awesomeness it seemed to have when I was a teenager. The hit detection is part of it, and my OCD nature of wanting to find every single barrel was both a blessing and a curse.

I never played much of DKC2 or 3, but am curious to go back and give them a try.

And to echo many people in here, the soundtrack is still amazing for the game. That is one area without fault in my opinion.

 

[Mael]

:lol
Seriously damn sad for losing a country man here
/salute

On topic, I think that the way they handled the secret rooms were better in DKC 1 than any other though. The whole get the coins and all was getting old by DKC2's end :/

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

One other good thing I can say about the whole DKC series; it's got a very lush, organic feel to it that no other series does. 99% of the levels are composed entirely of natural components; reefs, hills, trees, ledges, etc. Almost nothing in the level design (besides the enemies) feels like a floating piece of level design. The music has a very organic feel to it as well and I think these things put together make it feel like one of the most authentically outdoors videogames ever made

Are you saying peg-legged Crocodiles aren't natural feeling?

 

[TheExodu5]

On topic, I think that the way they handled the secret rooms were better in DKC 1 than any other though. The whole get the coins and all was getting old by DKC2's end :/

Not sure if I agree with that. So many of the secrets (like getting the G on Snow Barrel Blast) could only be found either through trial and error or mistake in DKC1.

 

[Dice]

One other good thing I can say about the whole DKC series; it's got a very lush, organic feel to it that no other series does. 99% of the levels are composed entirely of natural components; reefs, hills, trees, ledges, etc. Almost nothing in the level design (besides the enemies) feels like a floating piece of level design. The music has a very organic feel to it as well and I think these things put together make it feel like one of the most authentically outdoors videogames ever made

Yeah, this firmly planted Donkey Kong as a franchise concept as something I liked in my mind, despite not really liking the DKC games. I still imagine the DKC2 theme and remember the game worlds fondly and always wish Nintendo would use the series more often because it's such a fresh concept even today.

 

[HurricaneJesus]

"but if a cave consists of nothing more than 20 spikey wheels floating and moving around back and forth or in circles it just kind of seems very arbitrary and artificial"

Ok at this point you are just reaching. The caves have traps set up to keep people from getting through them and onto the boss. This is basic game shit. Can't believe this even got a response out of me.

DKC is a great game, from when Rare used to be great.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Not sure if I agree with that. So many of the secrets (like getting the G on Snow Barrel Blast) could only be found either through trial and error or mistake in DKC1.

Eh, the secrets were like that in both games. I remember the levels with the spikey thorns you went through in DKC2 where you used barrels to shoot around were totally trial/error/luck until you found the coins. Those were the last 3 or 4 coins I needed in those levels for the longest time.

 

[udivision]

On topic, I think that the way they handled the secret rooms were better in DKC 1 than any other though. The whole get the coins and all was getting old by DKC2's end :/

What did the Bonuses get you in DKC 1? More lives.
What did the Bonus Coins get you in DKC 2? A whole new wooooooooorld!

I'll take DKC2's over that. Also... you could get all the coins on the first stage anyway.

 

[BishopLamont]

i know this is a lot of text, so here's your tl;dr version:
donkey kong country kinda sucks

Disagree.

What did the Bonuses get you in DKC 1? More lives.
What did the Bonus Coins get you in DKC 2? A whole new wooooooooorld!

I'll take DKC2's over that. Also... you could get all the coins on the first stage anyway.

DKC 2 being awesome doesn't make DKC shit.

 

[Aesius]

This thread makes me so angry.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Damn it. As interested as I am in seeing how Returns turns out all I really want is another Jungle Beat with bongo support.

 

[jarosh]

One other good thing I can say about the whole DKC series; it's got a very lush, organic feel to it that no other series does. 99% of the levels are composed entirely of natural components; reefs, hills, trees, ledges, etc. Almost nothing in the level design (besides the enemies) feels like a floating piece of level design. The music has a very organic feel to it as well and I think these things put together make it feel like one of the most authentically outdoors videogames ever made

actually, yes, i definitely agree! in fact, that's what i meant in the op when i said that the otherwise organic backdrops and the look of the levels are at odds with the inorganic enemy placement and the somewhat too simplistic and boring paths. it doesn't look like just a bunch of repeating and repetitive tiles and the game deserves credit for that. it does make you wonder though: maybe that's part of why the collision feels so off? the terrain has almost too much depth sometimes and many natural looking bumps and slopes, none of which have a whole lot of gameplay relevance, as they rarely amount to terrain that's more difficult to traverse...

anyway, i really need to go now...

 

[Fugu]

I don't really like the Donkey Kong series as a whole (I will say that when I was younger, I thoroughly enjoyed DKL) but mostly because the collect-a-thon aspect of it really doesn't appeal to me. I think that the platforming itself is certainly passable, but on its own isn't worthy of any special merit. I can't really be as detailed with my criticisms because I haven't played the game in years; I really just wanted to chime in to represent that the dissenting opinion of the OP isn't as rare (no pun intended) as some here seem to believe it is/should be.

I also hate that art style to this day, so maybe that doesn't help (The music is good shit, though).

 

[Amneisac]

"but if a cave consists of nothing more than 20 spikey wheels floating and moving around back and forth or in circles it just kind of seems very arbitrary and artificial"

Ok at this point you are just reaching. The caves have traps set up to keep people from getting through them and onto the boss. This is basic game shit. Can't believe this even got a response out of me.

DKC is a great game, from when Rare used to be great.

This is more to my point about saying you can reduce any game (or really anything for that matter) down to a level where things seem absurd. I think you can take any other platformer in the 8 or 16 bit era (yes even mario) and you're going to have the exact same problem. It's like taking issue with all the giant loop de loops in Sonic or the hidden 1-up on SMB 1-1 or any of the myriad warp zones in early games.

DKC was an amazing graphical and musical accomplishment in its day and I honestly think the game still looks and sounds great. I think you have some valid points in there, I doubt many people would argue it's a perfect game, but objectively reading a lot of your language it's clearly meant to get a rise out of the DKC fanboys.

 

[TheSeks]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=24030089&postcount=129

Wow, guess I need to check "the site that shall not be named" for his posting now.

Edit: To be slightly on topic, I have to agree with the OP. Maybe it's because I'm a "Genesis kid" but any time I played the SNES and DKC it was just a "ho-hum" platformer. I think it's mostly because platformers for me ended with Mario 3. :/

 

[Mael]

Not sure if I agree with that. So many of the secrets (like getting the G on Snow Barrel Blast) could only be found either through trial and error or mistake in DKC1.

Yeah not saying it was perfect though.

What did the Bonuses get you in DKC 1? More lives.
What did the Bonus Coins get you in DKC 2? A whole new wooooooooorld!

I'll take DKC2's over that. Also... you could get all the coins on the first stage anyway.

Yeah...no.
The way it was made in DKC was more like a secret room that you weren't supposed to find and you could have a new mini game or a warpzone or something, you were never sure what it was you could enter.
In DKC2 and after, it was : 'here's your minigame, take your token reward and get back to the game'.
In a way it was more surprising to find a bonus zone in DKC1 than in the others.
The meta reward for the secret level is better in DKC2/3, no question here.

 

[Vanille]

there is also rarely a real sense of progression as you run and jump through the various levels; not much thought was put into the actual pacing within the levels themselves. often there is no real build-up or change of pace, no increasing feel or sign of reaching the end of a level. many levels just kind of trickle away or end just like they started, instead of culminating in a climax or deliberately winding down.

Don't agree with this point at all. Almost every level gets progressively harder and has a suitable climax.

You really seem to be reaching for complaints here.

 

[MiamiWesker]

I recently played DKC2 and I agree, such basic poor level design, it cannot hang with the best platformers. Now it is an a very well made game in terms of production values, secrets, length and it does have some good variety. DKC2 is a very good game but I would never put it in the discussion of best platformers.

 

[Ranger X]

DKC was the basics of one the best platformers ever made and is called Donkey Kong Country 2. This is something respectable. And anyways, there was nice platforming paterns in there with many involving timing -- wich I love, good pace, nice music and well done secrets. Animal bonus zones were shit though. All of this with excellent controls and top of the line graphics.

If this games sucks, it only tells me something about you: You never played a bad platformer game is seems. Your bar is high. Maybe you simply never played a bad videogame at all or something. But yeah, NeoGaf hive mind wants DKC to be a bad game so I can understand you follow that also.

 

[Azih]

Don't agree with this point at all. Almost every level gets progressively harder and has a suitable climax.

You really seem to be reaching for complaints here.

Especially with the enviromental effects where the weather transitioned as you traversed the level game me a lot of feeling of progressing through a real world. The overall progression from a natural lush environment to the industrial polluted landscapes near the end was also done incredibly well.

 

[faridmon]

WTF man? WTF?

DKC is my favourite game of all time.

WTF?


I think it was the game that set the bar for platforming. and I would not love platforemrs if I haven't played that game.

I still think it is a classic and therefore OP, I strongely disagree with your very late opinion on the game, as it may not be as good as it was, say 10 years ago, but bloddy fantastic.

This thread makes me so angry.

me and you alike, me and you.

 

[entremet]

I agree with almost all the OP's points, even back when I played the game in its original release. It just had no charm or personality, aside for the graphics and sound. It was video and aural showcase at the time, but the gameplay is sorely lacking.

 

[udivision]

Disagree.

DKC 2 being awesome doesn't make DKC shit.

Yes, because that is exactly what I was implying.
I think it's impossible to like 1 of the games and hate the others. You'd have to be lying to yourself.

Yeah...no.
The way it was made in DKC was more like a secret room that you weren't supposed to find and you could have a new mini game or a warpzone or something, you were never sure what it was you could enter.
In DKC2 and after, it was : 'here's your minigame, take your token reward and get back to the game'.
In a way it was more surprising to find a bonus zone in DKC1 than in the others.
The meta reward for the secret level is better in DKC2/3, no question here.

Well crap, if you put it that way... you're right. I was missing your point.

I agree with you, but I'm not happy about it. >:-|

 

[Bisnic]

WTF man? WTF?

DKC is my favourite game of all time.

WTF?


me and you alike, me and you.

This thread is a trap, better watch out.

 

[GoDLiKe]

It's easy to say all of this so many years after the original release...

 

[rollingstart]

Damn it. As interested as I am in seeing how Returns turns out all I really want is another Jungle Beat with bongo support.

I don't think Bongo support is absolutely necessary. The reason it was a problem for the Wii port is because the game was designed to be played with the bongos. A new game with similar ideas and regular controls (or nunchuck+wii remote) would be great.

Actually, that is the main reason I'm looking forward to Returns. I can only hope they learned a lot from Jungle Beat. But in general, as someone who isn't a fan of the Donkey Kong Country games, I'm still looking forward to Returns. What I've seen of it looks pretty good.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

It's easy to say all of this so many years after the original release...

Time is the great equalizer. It shows just how great or terrible something truly is. But then there are those that will say "but I felt that way from the start!"

Just remember when Battle Arena Toshinden came out. It got great reviews nearly everywhere and was wildly popular. Now look at it. Just horrifying. Time showed us that it was a terrible game, yet I had fun with it at the time. It is just nothing I would ever want to play now.

Now going back to things like Super Mario Bros. Time has been VERY kind to it.

 

[Ranger X]

It's easy to say all of this so many years after the original release...

Well, I do think that really great games ARE holding up. I think it's even a criteria to tell if a game is actually great and not just good.

 

[Regulus Tera]

645's post makes me realise why I'm so excited about Donkey Kong Country Returns when I never went gaga for the SNES trilogy: it's set up, at least in trailers, to be more like Mario than DKC.

 

[whitehawk]

OP, your opinion is wrong.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

I haven't gone through the last two pages; jarosh, have you tried playing through DKC2 at all? I think it fixes a lot of the problems with DKC1.

edit: reading the OP is mandatory, I'm dumb

 

[KAL2006]

Time is the great equalizer. It shows just how great or terrible something truly is. But then there are those that will say "but I felt that way from the start!"

Just remember when Battle Arena Toshinden came out. It got great reviews nearly everywhere and was wildly popular. Now look at it. Just horrifying. Time showed us that it was a terrible game, yet I had fun with it at the time. It is just nothing I would ever want to play now.

Now going back to things like Super Mario Bros. Time has been VERY kind to it.

Well time has been very kind to DKC2 and DKC3

 

[faridmon]

Well, I do think that really great games ARE holding up. I think it's even a criteria to tell if a game is actually great and not just good.

I disagree with this statement. Metal Gear Solid 1 was phenomenal, but after the improvement of Metal Solid Gear 3, I cold not go back to that game. Even on the Gamecube, it apears to be dated.

Just because other incompetent game companies haven't made a good game which makes Super mario Bros. Dated, doesn't mean your theory hold true anymore.

 

[RocketDarkness]

I want to see Jarosh respond to Sirlin's amazing article about why DKC2 is one of the greatest platformers of all time.

 

[cvxfreak]

there is also rarely a real sense of progression as you run and jump through the various levels; not much thought was put into the actual pacing within the levels themselves. often there is no real build-up or change of pace, no increasing feel or sign of reaching the end of a level. many levels just kind of trickle away or end just like they started, instead of culminating in a climax or deliberately winding down.

I actually like DKC because it takes this approach. It makes it feel like a different experience from the Mario games among others.

 

[Crayon]

From the perspective of a twelve year old, DKC was pretty nice. But when Yoshi's Island came out, I was able to appreciate what a tragic heap DKC was in comparison.

 

[McNei1y]

Someone got fooled by the King. K Rool ending. I just replayed that game on my Droid. Its such an awesome game! I'm on DKC2 right now and it's still my favorite SNES game.

 

[FartOfWar]

Mandatory prior to posting in this thread: State your age at the time you first played DKC.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I don't think Bongo support is absolutely necessary. The reason it was a problem for the Wii port is because the game was designed to be played with the bongos. A new game with similar ideas and regular controls (or nunchuck+wii remote) would be great.

No it isn't necessary but that was half the fun of Jungle Beat (for me anyway). It showed how a wide array of moves could be performed easily with just five types of input. Easily accessible yet incredibly deep gameplay.

 

[Stumpokapow]

OP, your opinion is wrong.

Are you replying to anything he said?

Are you explaining yourself?

Are you making the case for DKC?

Are you linking youtube videos of the music?

Are you even just stating your personal opinion on DKC?

Are you showing any signs of having read even a single paragraph of a single post in this whole thread?

Because, forgive me for saying this, but it looks like you just read the thread title and decided that you had so little respect for every poster in the thread and thought so highly of yourself that you decided not to do any of that, and just decided to be a jerk about it.

 

[Salsa]

Dont agree jarosh. Its a really good game.

That said, DKC2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DKC1

You should play that.

 

[Sealda]

Pinko Marx
Banned
(Today, 04:44 PM)
Reply | Quote

Hell, its 'Bout time

 

[Azih]

I have no idea what standard of 'awful' or 'tragic heap' is being used in this thread anyway. Does this scale include games like Bubsy, Aero the AcroBat etc?

 

[faridmon]

Are you replying to anything he said?

Are you explaining yourself?

Are you making the case for DKC?

Are you linking youtube videos of the music?

Are you even just stating your personal opinion on DKC?

Are you showing any signs of having read even a single paragraph of a single post in this whole thread?

Because, forgive me for saying this, but it looks like you just read the thread title and decided that you had so little respect for every poster in the thread and thought so highly of yourself that you decided not to do any of that, and just decided to be a jerk about it.

But, again, he can say if he did tick all those question.

 

[seady]

The OT hates the Wii so much that he has to make a topic about an old game right before DKC Returns release.

 

[charlequin]

I want to see Jarosh respond to Sirlin's amazing article about why DKC2 is one of the greatest platformers of all time.

I do too, although I'd note that everyone including jarosh has pretty much agreed that DKC2 is a way way better game than DKC, and also Sirlin's praise is largely orthogonal to jarosh's criticism: he talks about design of the secret-hunting metagame in DKC2 (which I would agree is quite excellent and has been very influential on later games -- NSMB pretty much rips it off wholesale) but not really about the issues with control, enemy placement, or "flow."

 

[NonexistentK]

DKC has never claimed to be the ultimate game for the platform game purists. I do think that calling some parts of the level design as mediocre is fair (i remember reading somewhere about Miyamoto not being the biggest fan of the design) but calling it awful is completely undeserved. This game was one hell of an accomplishment for its day.