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hteng · Jul 14, 2011

Krev said:
This is who the male protagonist of FFXII was going to be before Matsuno ~~was fired~~ had a breakdown:

Vaan was a corporate mandate from executives who demanded a typical FF/JRPG protagonist, and is an outlier among Yoshida designs.

i like this design so much, damn SE being jerks, and it's sad you'll never see a similar game like FFXII ever again.

Riposte · Jul 14, 2011

Krev said:
This is who the male protagonist of FFXII was going to be before Matsuno ~~was fired~~ had a breakdown:
http://www.abload.de/img/tumblr_lfq3bmaz341qgerq7an.jpg[img]
Vaan was a corporate mandate from executives who demanded a typical FF/JRPG protagonist, and is an outlier among Yoshida designs.[/QUOTE]

Pretty sure Matsuno created Vaan as to "show the world of politics from a commoner's point of view". (EDIT: Also be Luke Skywalker.)

EDIT:
[QUOTE=hteng]i like this design so much, damn SE being jerks, and it's sad you'll never see a similar game like FFXII ever again.[/QUOTE]

Really because the Ogre series, The Last Remnant, and Final Fantasy 11 are all similar in one way or the other.

Big One · Jul 14, 2011

nelsonroyale said:
Yoshida brought us Vaan...easily the worst designed FF character in the history of the series...

No, Vaan isn't as bad as any of the FFX or FFX-2 characters at all. Also Yoshida's original design has nothing to do with the CG abomination.

Is pretty damn decent and well designed young thief.

Fucking terrible.

I too think FF needs a new art director. Yoshida is a good start.

Gravijah · Jul 14, 2011

His nipple is just shaded skin.

Riposte · Jul 14, 2011

I get the feeling 50% of Vaan hate would disappear if he wore a shirt. The other 50% would be around because people don't like idea of the main character being a combative spectator to events(unless they expect it, like in FFXI).

Mileena · Jul 14, 2011

Big One said:
No, Vaan isn't as bad as any of the FFX or FFX-2 characters at all.

This is so wrong it hurts my head

Big One · Jul 14, 2011

corkscrewblow said:
This is so wrong it hurts my head

I'm sorry, but if you think Vaan looks worse than either of these characters:

Then you simply have problems, period.

Riposte · Jul 14, 2011

Piles of belts of Lulu. Literally.

ULTROS! · Jul 14, 2011

Riposte said:
Piles of belts of Lulu. Literally.

But she's hawt.

Gravijah · Jul 14, 2011

ULTROS! said:
But she's hawt.

Maybe she should have thought about that before she put on a billion belts.

nelsonroyale · Jul 14, 2011

Tidus is a better design than Vaan...Vaan has a button nose

gundamkyoukai · Jul 14, 2011

When it comes to art and design i don't give a fuck how the look in pictures .
It's about how they look in game that matter to me the most .

Big One · Jul 14, 2011

gundamkyoukai said:
When i comes to art and design i don't give a fuck how the look in pictures .
It's about how they look in game that matter to me the most .

Well that's unfortunate cause those characters look much worse in-game, while Vaan looks tolerable in-game.

Riposte · Jul 14, 2011

The idea of Tidus losing one side of his convertible pants and not giving a fuck is hilarious to me. It isn't like he can buy a new pair where he is at, right? Though it is not like he has a choice, rather convert pants into shorts, his converts shorts into shorty-shorts.

EDIT: Then again, he seems to wear scale-mail under his cargo shorts.

gundamkyoukai · Jul 14, 2011

Big One said:
Well that's unfortunate cause those characters look much worse in-game, while Vaan looks tolerable in-game.

I don't like any of them to tell the truth from since FFIX .

Gravijah · Jul 14, 2011

Riposte said:
The idea of Tidus losing one side of his convertible pants and not giving a fuck is hilarious to me. It isn't like he can buy a new pair where he is at, right? Though it is not like he has a choice, rather convert pants into shorts, his converts shorts into shorty-shorts.

EDIT: Then again, he seems to wear scale-mail under his cargo shorts.

He didn't lose it, man. That's the style.

hteng · Jul 14, 2011

Riposte said:
The idea of Tidus losing one side of his convertible pants and not giving a fuck is hilarious to me. It isn't like he can buy a new pair where he is at, right? Though it is not like he has a choice, rather convert pants into shorts, his converts shorts into shorty-shorts.

EDIT: Then again, he seems to wear scale-mail under his cargo shorts.

glad i'm not the only one seeing something wrong with his get-up, i literally facepalm myself when i first saw his reveal.

Riposte · Jul 14, 2011

hteng said:
glad i'm not the only one seeing something wrong with his get-up, i literally facepalm myself when i first saw his reveal.

The entirety of the costume is pretty incredible lol. Probably more so because the modern elements integrated into it. Some real bad 90s gear in there. I can remember if you wore a chain in that exact way you would have been called the f-word(the naughty one) in my school lol. Its pretty clear Nomura wanted to be a fashion designer growing up. He wouldn't even be the weirdest one there.

Dark Schala · Jul 14, 2011

Tidus's pants are always the first thing my dad talks about any time he sees me playing an FF post-FFX. "Is that weird pants boy in this game? Where is the rest of his pants? Who decided to make him those stupid pants? Why doesn't he make it even? In fact, why isn't his top the same on both sides? Did that boy decide to put those extra things on his left arm to make up for his pants on the same side?"

My dad really dislikes those pants.

Gravijah · Jul 14, 2011

Dark Schala said:
Tidus's pants are always the first thing my dad talks about any time he sees me playing an FF post-FFX. "Is that weird pants boy in this game? Where is the rest of his pants? Who decided to make him those stupid pants? Why doesn't he make it even? In fact, why isn't his top the same on both sides? Did that boy decide to put those extra things on his left arm to make up for his pants on the same side?"

My dad really dislikes those pants.

I've known multiple people throughout my lifetime that have worn those kinds of pants. Coincidentally, they also reeked of cologne.

Castor Krieg · Jul 14, 2011

So going by development clarification we can say that since 2006 they didn't put more than 1.5 years of development into Versus?

Kagari said:
He explains in the interview that the higher-ups are forcing him to keep the game quiet until Type-0 and XIII-2 are out.

"Higher-ups" being a slang for Wada. How the fuck does this even work? So he cannot talk about a game that will be out in two years on PS3, because ppl might not buy Type-0 on PSP in a few months, instead wait for Versus? What are they smoking out there?

Perfo · Jul 14, 2011

The ingame Vaan it's cool, whats bad about him? Final Fantasy XII art design and art direction it's the best in the saga if not one of the best ever created for a jrpg, every character and location included. Together with Ueda's games and few others, I keep the work behind FFXII as constantly inspiring to my videogamer life. I really don't get the complains about Vaan nor anything else. Sure, the CGI work is bad like often with FF, but ingame and art rulez.

Rahxephon91 · Jul 14, 2011

Perfo said:
Sure, the CGI work is bad like often with FF,

Wait what? The CGI is probably one of Square's most consistent good thing.

Though XII's cg was pretty meh.

Riposte · Jul 14, 2011

Castor Krieg said:
So going by development clarification we can say that since 2006 they didn't put more than 1.5 years of development into Versus?

"Higher-ups" being a slang for Wada. How the fuck does this even work? So he cannot talk about a game that will be out in two years on PS3, because ppl might not buy Type-0 on PSP in a few months, instead wait for Versus? What are they smoking out there?

I can kind of understand why you would set it up like that, but I am of the mind that empowering the brand has a positive effect on all games under it.

gundamkyoukai · Jul 14, 2011

Rahxephon91 said:
Wait what? The CGI is probably one of Square's most consistent good thing.

Though XII's cg was pretty meh.

I was wondering the same thing , there CG most of the time is good .
Versus CG from the trailer look great .

Korigama · Jul 14, 2011

Perfo said:
The ingame Vaan it's cool, whats bad about him?

For me, it's mainly the abs (one person on GAF once described them as looking sprayed on, I'd say that sounded about right). As far as personal opinions on art direction go, while I was fine with XII's, I preferred VIII and X's art direction as far as FF is concerned, even if I agree about Tidus' asymmetrical shorts being silly. Accounting for non-FF titles, I still consider Chrono Cross to have the best art direction of Square's titles overall; in regards to character design, though I only cared for about half of the cast in that game at best, I have no complaints about the designs of those among that half.

GorillaJu · Jul 14, 2011

Rahxephon91 said:
Wait what? The CGI is probably one of Square's most consistent good thing.

Though XII's cg was pretty meh.

I personally find it repulsive but that's more an issue with direction than quality of rendering.

Krev · Jul 14, 2011

Riposte said:
Pretty sure Matsuno created Vaan as to "show the world of politics from a commoner's point of view". (EDIT: Also be Luke Skywalker.)

That might have been Matsuno's approach after Vaan was forced into the game. However, his replacing the earlier version of Basch who was originally to be the lead was mandated by higher ups, and Matsuno had fought the decision. While we may never know the real story, it seems like meddling along these lines was what lead to his 'breakdown'.
EDIT: Also, I strongly doubt the story was so 'Star Wars' when Matsuno was on board.
I wonder if Yoshida will work on Matsuno's game with Level-5.

Perfo · Jul 14, 2011

Rahxephon91 said:
Wait what? The CGI is probably one of Square's most consistent good thing.

Though XII's cg was pretty meh.

The CGI is godly but... there's always something off with the style direction compared to the in-game cutscenes. FFXII it's a good example of this, where I personally found the characters in CGI really ugly to look at, and extremely appealing in real-time cutscenes. This happens to a certain extent in XIII too, especially in the ending with the Kid and Sazh both looking so deformed that was very creepy. I think the two teams don't really comunicate much during development that's why they look so different. Another example: the Asian Tidus from CGI and the western blondie from ingame XD

That's it, there's always something off with the characters rendering. Settings, mechas ect. instead are cool as hell even in CGI.

Korigama · Jul 14, 2011

Perfo said:
I think the two teams don't really comunicate much during development that's why they look so different. Another example: the Asian Tidus from CGI and the western blondie from ingame XD

This was an issue with Rikku as well.

Perfo · Jul 14, 2011

Korigama said:
This was an issue with Rikku as well.

If you pay attention there is always some inconsinstency regarding the style between Square's "FMV" and real-time/pre-rendered cutscenes. FFXII being the worst.

This doesn't deny the fact that Square's CGI is among the best. I'm just discussing a style-inconsistency

Momo · Jul 14, 2011

Krev said:
This is who the male protagonist of FFXII was going to be before Matsuno ~~was fired~~ had a breakdown:

Vaan was a corporate mandate from executives who demanded a typical FF/JRPG protagonist, and is an outlier among Yoshida designs.

This looks amazing

Fine Ham Abounds · Jul 14, 2011

"There will either be pre-rendered movies or realtime event scenes that the player can control. These scenes are part of a new gameplay feature which, as far as I know, hasn't been done anywhere else. It's something that allows for very natural changes in the game experience, a form of expression you don't really see in games. It's not something you can explain quickly since the experience can change with each situation, but you could say it leads to the sort of storytelling you see more in FPSes than in console RPGs."

^ From the 1-up article.

Is this a wonky translation or something, or is this guy basically saying that now Square is once again overpromising to reinvent the way storytelling has ever been made in the history of video games, they've figured out a way to inject that organically into non-skippable QTE cutscenes which somehow also allow you to express yourself in a completely game-transcendent fashion, and the best way to explain it is that it's kinda like storytelling in Call of Duty on PC?

...what?

RustyNails · Jul 14, 2011

I'm sorry, but Vaan is the worst designed character from FF series. Even worse than Tidus. Not only does he look incredibly feminine, but his "clothes" are simply atrocious. Good thing the game allowed me to keep Balthier as my main character when running around so I didn't have had to witness tragedy on screen every waking moment.

Riposte · Jul 14, 2011

RustyNails said:
I'm sorry, but Vaan is the worst designed character from FF series. Even worse than Tidus.

You are blinded by some sort of hate, nothing else makes sense. It simply isn't sane.

EDIT: Dreamer RD didn't read the post, apparently.

EDIT: Also proto-Basch looks like Heath Ledger. Which I like.

Dreamer RD · Jul 14, 2011

Big One said:
Is pretty damn decent and well designed young thief.

Riposte · Jul 14, 2011

Does the male nudity in this picture trigger any feelings people cannot cope with? Maybe it is the sash...

.JayZii · Jul 14, 2011

The Vaan design is fine, it's just that the CG render everyone always pulls out makes him look like a thai ladyboy advertisement and his in game model has an insect carapace instead of abdominal muscles.

Rahxephon91 · Jul 14, 2011

RustyNails said:
I'm sorry, but Vaan is the worst designed character from FF series. Even worse than Tidus. Not only does he look incredibly feminine, but his "clothes" are simply atrocious. Good thing the game allowed me to keep Balthier as my main character when running around so I didn't have had to witness tragedy on screen every waking moment.

He looks femine how? The long hair? What is it? In game he hardly even looks close to a female. He looks exactly like he should. He looks like a young somewhat rebellious teenage male thief? What else should he look like? He can't look wise and old because his character isn't? He can't look macho and taugh because that's not him as well.

Emitan · Jul 14, 2011

Krev said:
This is who the male protagonist of FFXII was going to be before Matsuno ~~was fired~~ had a breakdown:

Vaan was a corporate mandate from executives who demanded a typical FF/JRPG protagonist, and is an outlier among Yoshida designs.

Should be the main character of XII-2

on PSVITA

Darkman M · Jul 14, 2011

Dreamer RD said:

TheJollyCorner · Jul 14, 2011

Rahxephon91 said:
I do hope 15 uses either him or a completely different artist.

Yusuke Naora, please.

His character designs for the Kitase/Nojima game that eventually became FFX were fascinating.

MeBecomingI · Jul 14, 2011

Krev said:
This is who the male protagonist of FFXII was going to be before Matsuno ~~was fired~~ had a breakdown:

Vaan was a corporate mandate from executives who demanded a typical FF/JRPG protagonist, and is an outlier among Yoshida designs.

Wow... that is amazing. I am replaying Final Fantasy XII and it is really hard to enjoy it when I am stuck playing as Vaan. I really dislike his design and the character in general. But I seriously love that design; almost exclusively because it reminds me a lot of Vagrant Story. Square...

TheJollyCorner · Jul 14, 2011

Riposte said:
The idea of Tidus losing one side of his convertible pants and not giving a fuck is hilarious to me. It isn't like he can buy a new pair where he is at, right? Though it is not like he has a choice, rather convert pants into shorts, his converts shorts into shorty-shorts.

EDIT: Then again, he seems to wear scale-mail under his cargo shorts.

isn't the pant leg missing because that's his dominant kicking/scoring leg in Blitzball?

That's what I always thought.

Rahxephon91 · Jul 14, 2011

TheJollyCorner said:
isn't the pant leg missing because that's his dominant kicking/scoring leg in Blitzball?

That's what I always thought.

OH SHIT!

This changes everything!

Fine Ham Abounds · Jul 14, 2011

Rahxephon91 said:
He looks femine how? The long hair? What is it? In game he hardly even looks close to a female. He looks exactly like he should. He looks like a young somewhat rebellious teenage male thief? What else should he look like? He can't look wise and old because his character isn't? He can't look macho and taugh because that's not him as well.

I think most people's reaction to the character has to do with that one horrible art piece people always post, and probably due to the body language.

That picture of Vaan looks like he's beckoning you to sit next to him and take note of his open shirt (and legs...) which I'm sure makes some people very uncomfortable.

I never saw this piece of art before I started playing FFXII, so it never influenced my opinion of the character - if anything, the character I initially thought looked the worst in-game was probably Penelo.

ymmv · Jul 14, 2011

Fine Ham Abounds said:
I never saw this piece of art before I started playing FFXII, so it never influenced my opinion of the character - if anything, the character I initially thought looked the worst in-game was probably Penelo.

Not quite.

BTW Most of the character designs in FFXII were really good.

HomerSimpson-Man · Jul 14, 2011

Krev said:
This is who the male protagonist of FFXII was going to be before Matsuno ~~was fired~~ had a breakdown:

Vaan was a corporate mandate from executives who demanded a typical FF/JRPG protagonist, and is an outlier among Yoshida designs.

What the....badass.

FU SE.

Megidolaon · Jul 14, 2011

I don't mind Vaan's design. His in game model's abs looked kinda funny, but really who cares? Tidus's game model was uglier, though he looked ok in Dissidia and in FMVs. Asian Tidus looked ok. And Vaan was kinda cute sometimes:

Beth Cyra · Jul 14, 2011

Krev said:
That might have been Matsuno's approach after Vaan was forced into the game. However, his replacing the earlier version of Basch who was originally to be the lead was mandated by higher ups, and Matsuno had fought the decision. While we may never know the real story, it seems like meddling along these lines was what lead to his 'breakdown'.
EDIT: Also, I strongly doubt the story was so 'Star Wars' when Matsuno was on board.
I wonder if Yoshida will work on Matsuno's game with Level-5.

This is bullshit though.

Matsuno created Vaan even before the removal of Basche as the Main character. As it stands with what has happened before hand Vaan was going to be someone who looked up to Basche, almost a Rex esk character but one that lasted the entire game.

This nonsense about Vaan's creation being because of Higher ups is completely unfounded and based completely out of people wanting some way to defend Matsuno as if he was wronged.

Not to mention Vaan was in the Main character role from the the very first time the game was shown, so the switch happened quite early, so much so that we never saw Basche as the main character until it came up after the games release and even the fact that the one piece of Art we got from Amano had Vaan in the lead role.

The fact that Matsuno wanted Basche as the main character we know but the rest is unfounde speculation, plus we have someone who would have had to broke down nearly 2 years after he placed Vaan into the role if we factor in when we first saw Vaan and when Matsuno left the project.

Quite unlikely. Now him breaking down because of the pressure SE was putting on him? Very likely, but it having to do with Vaan at that point just doesn't seem at all reasonable.

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