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Legend of Korra Book 2 HYPE Thread (Book 1 & 2 Spoilers inside)

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Shags

Banned
I think there's a fundamental issue with the Legend of Korra existing in it's setting.

TLA was a journey throughout the entirety of this brand new world, being introduced to all these various people and locations. It was stunning and truly an adventure. With LoK we are trapped in Republic City, and although it is vast and beautiful in it's own respect, there needs to be more for us to engage in this new universe. The writers still have potential of writing new characters who are interesting and add to the story with people like Gommu (the hobo) but a greater journey should introduce more supporting characters.

Also the progression of technology and bending in this also has a lot of us feeling lost. Back in TLA, times were much simpler and industry was not heard of much (predominantly it existed with the fire nation, whom the viewer disliked). But with a sort of industrial revolution occuring in LoK, the series doesn't feel as innocent. Also when Toph discovered metal bending, for example, it was a huge deal - it felt triumphant! Now we see that it turns out to be insignificant in this series, easily beaten by lightning (another bending skill that is commonplace).

Those are my feelings, haven't had time to check through the whole thread and see if others feel the same. Still excited for Book 2!!
 

Kangi

Member
TLA was a journey throughout the entirety of this brand new world, being introduced to all these various people and locations. It was stunning and truly an adventure. With LoK we are trapped in Republic City, and although it is vast and beautiful in it's own respect, there needs to be more for us to engage in this new universe.

That's the thing. The first season had awful character progression and wasted too much time on pro-bending and badly written romance; I don't think many will disagree with that. But then you go and think, "Well, at least it's gorgeous (and the music is great)." Once you think further on that, though, you realize A:TLA had such a huge variety of locations; while Korra was stuck in a city for the vast majority of the first season. So even what was one of its few good aspects turns out to be mediocre, at least by comparison.

At... at least the music was still really good?
 

AoM

Member
That's the thing. The first season had awful character progression and wasted too much time on pro-bending and badly written romance; I don't think many will disagree with that. But then you go and think, "Well, at least it's gorgeous (and the music is great)." Once you think further on that, though, you realize A:TLA had such a huge variety of locations; while Korra was stuck in a city for the vast majority of the first season. So even what was one of its few good aspects turns out to be mediocre, at least by comparison.

At... at least the music was still really good?

That's why I'm decently hyped for S2. It's going to have so much more variety in locales: SWT, more Republic City, air temples, and the Spirit World. Plus, we get two episodes dedicated to Wan's story and we'll get to see even more locations. Now let's hope there's a lot more character development and the romance gets set aside. I really want to like LoK as much as the original and S2 is looking amazing from the things we've seen.
 

Kangi

Member
That's why I'm decently hyped for S2. It's going to have so much more variety in locales: SWT, more Republic City, air temples, and the Spirit World. Plus, we get two episodes dedicated to Wan's story and we'll get to see even more locations. Now let's hope there's a lot more character development and the romance gets set aside. I really want to like LoK as much as the original and S2 is looking amazing from the things we've seen.

Can only hope. A:TLA went from "really great" in its first season to "bloody amazing" in its second. Hopefully Korra can reach at least "really great" in its second season after its "good" first season.

The minds behind this know what they're doing; their execution in the first season was just all over the place.
 

cdkee

Banned
Can only hope. A:TLA went from "really great" in its first season to "bloody amazing" in its second. Hopefully Korra can reach at least "really great" in its second season after its "good" first season.

The minds behind this know what they're doing; their execution in the first season was just all over the place.

And they know how their fans feel regarding certain characters, etc.
 

Shags

Banned
That's the thing. The first season had awful character progression and wasted too much time on pro-bending and badly written romance; I don't think many will disagree with that. But then you go and think, "Well, at least it's gorgeous (and the music is great)." Once you think further on that, though, you realize A:TLA had such a huge variety of locations; while Korra was stuck in a city for the vast majority of the first season. So even what was one of its few good aspects turns out to be mediocre, at least by comparison.

At... at least the music was still really good?

I still believe the talent exists to make LoK on par with TLA, but the storyline from last season just wasn't working. The art and music was spot on, however like you said the pro-bending and that romance took it's toll on the show's quality. And since the season was only 12 episodes, those poor concepts took up the majority of the shows episodes. TLA 20 episdoes allowed it to touch upon many different bases.

Any word on the number of episodes for book 2?
 

AoM

Member
I still believe the talent exists to make LoK on par with TLA, but the storyline from last season just wasn't working. The art and music was spot on, however like you said the pro-bending and that romance took it's toll on the show's quality. And since the season was only 12 episodes, those poor concepts took up the majority of the shows episodes. TLA 20 episdoes allowed it to touch upon many different bases.

Any word on the number of episodes for book 2?

14. And the two after that will have 13 each. So it's not much better, but now that they know they have more episodes, hopefully they won't feel the need to perfectly wrap up everything like in the S1 finale.
 

Omikaru

Member
I pretty much expect some character arcs to begin in S2 and move right through to the end of S4, even as each season's villain comes and goes. I get that S1 didn't have that luxury, and that's pretty much the only reason I'm giving S2 a chance at this point.

It'd better not disappoint.
 

Splatt

Member
I pretty much expect some character arcs to begin in S2 and move right through to the end of S4, even as each season's villain comes and goes. I get that S1 didn't have that luxury, and that's pretty much the only reason I'm giving S2 a chance at this point.

It'd better not disappoint.

Korra has been renewed for 4 seasons?
 

AoM

Member
When does season 2 start airing? It´s taking too long.

Sometime in September. We should get the exact date soon:

gtpMmYj.png
 

Omikaru

Member
Korra has been renewed for 4 seasons?
Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Well, four "Books". Technically, a season is 26 episodes as far as Nickelodeon is concerned, so Book 1 & 2 count as Season 1, then Book 3 & 4 count as Season 2. They have simply split those two seasons in two to tell four major arcs.

In otherwords, if Nickelodeon wanted more Korra after Book 4 and Mike and Bryan agreed, we'd get Book 5 & 6 as they order new episodes in bulks of 26.
 

Veelk

Banned
Korra has a lot to come back from in my opinion. To even call the first season 'good' is being generous. Everyone always rags on the romance and probending, which most definitely sucked, but I could have lived with that if the amon story was good...and it was, while it was still cloaked in mystery. But the last few episodes revealed the true state of things. Amon was a con-man and a hypocrite, his powers were bullshit and made no sense, and the Elitists weren't even actually oppressed and were just a bunch of whiners.

On top of that, Korra, as a character, never really bettered herself at all. She just got increasingly sad when she wasn't getting what she wanted until the universe would caves in and gives it to her on silver platter. "You like Mako but he doesn't like you? Well, what about this Bolin guy, he's nice and...no? Okay, Mako likes you now even though he didn't show any interest in you before and has no reason to show interest now." "Can't airbend, huh? Well, keep at it and you'll get it...Mako's gonna die and you don't have anything else? *sigh*, fine, here, even though attachment to earthly possessions is not how spirituality works" "You have airbending now, so now you can start learning the avatar state. Okay, so the first chakra is...no, stop crying. You see, you have to make the chi flow by releasing your...hey, come on, concentrate....oh, you know what, screw it, here, just take it. Atleast try to use it responsibly, and not on frivolous things like races against children. " She just gets stuff, without really earning it. It'd be bad enough in a stand alone storyline, but it especially grates when you remember all the shit Aang had to go through to succeed. If he could win by just being sad enough, the first series would have been over in the 3rd episode, when he stumbled upon the genocide of his people. But apparently that isn't nearly as harrowing as Korra not getting to throw fireballs again. It just feels disrespectful to the character, and that's just one example of many.

The probending angle sucked, the romance sucked, the humor had it's moments but not as frequent as TLA's, Bolin has no reason to exist except to remind us how much funnier Sokka was, the bending wasn't as creative or even as powerful which is odd given how Korra was made out to be more of a powerhouse than Aang, Tenzin pretty boring and kind of incompetent and a poor replacement for Iroh, the intriguing political angle ended up being a sham, the frequent and noticeable CGI was jarring to the visuals, Mako is an unlikable asshole, the overpowered bloodbending powers are inexplicable and ruin the balance of the 4 elements, Korra is an awful avatar and the ending in particular was bullshit.

Tenzin's kids were funny, Lin was badass and Asami was a legitimately good character who had an actual arc...the only one, I'd say. Oh, and I really liked Naga. Great spirit animal and worthy successor to Appa. But they can't possibly make up for the all the mistakes that happened in Season 1, some of them irreparable. I'll watch Season 2, but if it screws up the spiritual stuff, Korra can join the Star Wars prequels and Matrix sequels in my mind of unofficial decanonization.
 

Mononoke

Banned
So I'm sure this is old news. But The Legend of Korra soundtrack by Jeremy Zuckerman is now available on Amazon/iTunes and Spotify. It's truly stunning. My favorite track is "Before" which was used for the Book 2 trailer:

The_Legend_of_Korra_Original_Music_From_Book_One.png


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWkdZK2TVwU

In his AmA Zuckerman said that he also wants to go back and re-release all of TLA's music. He said it would require a lot of work, as a lot of the music was stored on obsolete recording devices etc. He also said he would re-record some of it.

Also, they released a hardcover book that has all the art from Book One:

tumblr_inline_mmk8ghv98h1qz4rgp.jpg


If anyone is in the LA area, the creators (Bryan and Di Martino + the art director) are going to be doing a special signing + talk about Book 2 at the Barnes and Noble at the Grove on August 15th. So anyone that couldn't make Comic Con should check it out.

Lastly, as others have pointed out - release date for book 2 will be announced. Although we already know it's going to be in September. If this stays a Saturday show, it can only be 4 dates: Sept 7th, 14th, 21st, 28th.
 

Mononoke

Banned
I think there's a fundamental issue with the Legend of Korra existing in it's setting.

TLA was a journey throughout the entirety of this brand new world, being introduced to all these various people and locations. It was stunning and truly an adventure. With LoK we are trapped in Republic City, and although it is vast and beautiful in it's own respect, there needs to be more for us to engage in this new universe. The writers still have potential of writing new characters who are interesting and add to the story with people like Gommu (the hobo) but a greater journey should introduce more supporting characters.

Also the progression of technology and bending in this also has a lot of us feeling lost. Back in TLA, times were much simpler and industry was not heard of much (predominantly it existed with the fire nation, whom the viewer disliked). But with a sort of industrial revolution occuring in LoK, the series doesn't feel as innocent. Also when Toph discovered metal bending, for example, it was a huge deal - it felt triumphant! Now we see that it turns out to be insignificant in this series, easily beaten by lightning (another bending skill that is commonplace).

Those are my feelings, haven't had time to check through the whole thread and see if others feel the same. Still excited for Book 2!!

Was having this conversation with a friend. I agree 100%. I think it really hurt the show that the entire story took place in ONE location. On the other hand, I feel like Republic City is a huge part of Aang's story (if you haven't read the comics, it's pretty much the second half to his plot that should have been told in the animation but wasn't).

I guess my issue with Republic City more than anything is that we didn't get to see the struggles that happened in order for the city to exist. And even now, it's clear that the city has some major problems (especially on a government level. Which is something Aang struggled with when trying to create the city). I feel like THIS is an oppurtunity they really missed. To open up a bit more on the problems of the city that were never fixed from its creation. Yeah, we got the interesting element of benders abusing their powers. We got the aspect of there being classes and barriers as a result of benders and non benders living together in one place. And that was great (although they really squandered the plot by having the revolution develop too quickly, and by wrapping up Amon's plot way too soon).

But I wonder what the overall conflict for this show is going to be. Is the problems of Republic City over with? Are they just going to brush it aside, and act as if the events of Book One didn't show how problematic their governmental system is? What is Korra's role with the city?

Basically, Avatar had a pretty clear conflict and Objective for Aang. And that was to defeat the fire lord, and to restore harmony to the 4 nations. The animation dealt with the fire lord bit, but didn't deal with restoring harmony to the 4 nations (and that is what Republic City is). That's my greatest fear for this show. Now that they have ended Amon's plot so pre-maturely, I have no idea what Korra's overall goal/conflict is.
 

Shags

Banned
But I wonder what the overall conflict for this show is going to be. Is the problems of Republic City over with? Are they just going to brush it aside, and act as if the events of Book One didn't show how problematic their governmental system is? What is Korra's role with the city?

Perhaps they can expand upon the bender/non-bender conflict. Just because Amon was a fake doesn't mean there isn't still a great dislike for benders.
 

AoM

Member
Perhaps they can expand upon the bender/non-bender conflict. Just because Amon was a fake doesn't mean there isn't still a great dislike for benders.

From what I've seen and heard about S2, the bender/non-bender conflict will be almost nonexistent. I guess they're going to make the plots in every book self-contained, unlike the grand epic in ATLA.
 

Veelk

Banned
From what I've seen and heard about S2, the bender/non-bender conflict will be almost nonexistent. I guess they're going to make the plots in every book self-contained, unlike the grand epic in ATLA.

My eyes can't roll hard enough.

Apparently, since the bender-equalist situation didn't really require anything except shutting up the rabble rouser, we basically are left to two different conclusions. Either:

1. The inequality problem was greatly overstated by Amon and all his supporters are whiners who were trying to grab power, utterly neutering the fascinating political angle of the first season.

or

2. The avatar, who is suppose to ensure balance, is ignoring the plights of the people and considers the problem solved because she punched out the badguy.

No matter how you look at it, this reflects horribly on the show.
 

Trey

Member
I knew the writers were not about that life halfway through S1. It's a shame they would kick up such an intrinsically interesting conflict since they weren't prepared to see it through, or even superficially explore it.
 

AoM

Member
Wait people hated the probending stuff? That one is new to me. I liked the probending parts of the first season.

It was just so boring to watch. There were so many limitations that it felt like it hindered people's ability to bend.

I wanted to see something like this (note: mute the audio): an all-out fight in an open arena where almost anything goes to force your opponent(s) to stop fighting. I know it sounds a lot more brutal, but it would be a ton more enjoyable to watch a wide variety of techniques compared to the monotony of probending.
 

Veelk

Banned
It was just so boring to watch. There were so many limitations that it felt like it hindered people's ability to bend.

I wanted to see something like this (note: mute the audio): an all-out fight in an open arena where almost anything goes to force your opponent(s) to stop fighting. I know it sounds a lot more brutal, but it would be a ton more enjoyable to watch a wide variety of techniques compared to the monotony of probending.

Pretty much. I can see that the rules were necessary for it to be an actual sport, so that part made sense. But from spectator perspective, it essentially took every element and told you that all you can do with it is shoot a 1 second long burst of it at the other guys to knock them out of the ring. Really, Korra should have never gotten involved in the probending nonsense to begin with. I get that she's trying to have fun and all, but it should have been kept in the background or something and focused more on her training.
 

Veelk

Banned
Interesting idea, why they go so sloppy and cheap though?

Because who wants to hear about Mako and Bolin's tragic backstory of poverty when the budget can be used on the real important character moments: Mako and Korra bickering about who left the toilet seat up.
 

AoM

Member
Pretty much. I can see that the rules were necessary for it to be an actual sport, so that part made sense. But from spectator perspective, it essentially took every element and told you that all you can do with it is shoot a 1 second long burst of it at the other guys to knock them out of the ring. Really, Korra should have never gotten involved in the probending nonsense to begin with. I get that she's trying to have fun and all, but it should have been kept in the background or something and focused more on her training.

Bending just seems so lackluster and underwhelming in Korra. It feels like they focused on MMA and UFC styles more than the fighting styles in the original show. Also, it didn't help that firebending was way overused because they were in the city (water not that readily available, don't want to rip up the streets with earthbending). Hopefully that alone will be fixed in S2 with the more open environment of the SWT. Bloodbending got a huge focus in S1 too and it's pretty difficult to enjoy visually From what we saw in the trailer, the bending should be amazing this season.

maybekorravstwins.gif
 
As a big fan of TLA I was so looking forward to Book 1 of Korra but it was just so lame, I wasn't wowed by the bending, the characters were not at all relatable, who would you rather hang out with? Bolin or Sokka, Korra or Aang, Katara or Bolin's brother or asami or Toph?

Appa and Momo easily win as characters compared to Korra's dog.

The city is lame, the story is uninspiring, the love story is pointless. The only thing this show can hope beat TLA on is the final showdown with the bad guy.

Not one redeeming feature to this show so far.
 
As a big fan of TLA I was so looking forward to Book 1 of Korra but it was just so lame, I wasn't wowed by the bending, the characters were not at all relatable, who would you rather hang out with? Bolin or Sokka, Korra or Aang, Katara or Bolin's brother or asami or Toph?

serious question?

Bolin easily.
Korra
Katara
Toph
 

Shags

Banned
Wait people hated the probending stuff? That one is new to me. I liked the probending parts of the first season.

The importance of the probending was so that Korra could train in a way without getting bored. It's an interesting concept and was used in a manner that really wasn't too bad (I would take it over the romance)... but there's just too much of it going on. Too much of the same. In TLA, when Aang was tired of training they would soon find themselves on some new adventure. Probending, by comparison, is just so contained and boring.
 

Joeytj

Banned
Korra has a lot to come back from in my opinion. To even call the first season 'good' is being generous. Everyone always rags on the romance and probending, which most definitely sucked, but I could have lived with that if the amon story was good...and it was, while it was still cloaked in mystery. But the last few episodes revealed the true state of things. Amon was a con-man and a hypocrite, his powers were bullshit and made no sense, and the Elitists weren't even actually oppressed and were just a bunch of whiners.

On top of that, Korra, as a character, never really bettered herself at all. She just got increasingly sad when she wasn't getting what she wanted until the universe would caves in and gives it to her on silver platter. "You like Mako but he doesn't like you? Well, what about this Bolin guy, he's nice and...no? Okay, Mako likes you now even though he didn't show any interest in you before and has no reason to show interest now." "Can't airbend, huh? Well, keep at it and you'll get it...Mako's gonna die and you don't have anything else? *sigh*, fine, here, even though attachment to earthly possessions is not how spirituality works" "You have airbending now, so now you can start learning the avatar state. Okay, so the first chakra is...no, stop crying. You see, you have to make the chi flow by releasing your...hey, come on, concentrate....oh, you know what, screw it, here, just take it. Atleast try to use it responsibly, and not on frivolous things like races against children. " She just gets stuff, without really earning it. It'd be bad enough in a stand alone storyline, but it especially grates when you remember all the shit Aang had to go through to succeed. If he could win by just being sad enough, the first series would have been over in the 3rd episode, when he stumbled upon the genocide of his people. But apparently that isn't nearly as harrowing as Korra not getting to throw fireballs again. It just feels disrespectful to the character, and that's just one example of many.

The probending angle sucked, the romance sucked, the humor had it's moments but not as frequent as TLA's, Bolin has no reason to exist except to remind us how much funnier Sokka was, the bending wasn't as creative or even as powerful which is odd given how Korra was made out to be more of a powerhouse than Aang, Tenzin pretty boring and kind of incompetent and a poor replacement for Iroh, the intriguing political angle ended up being a sham, the frequent and noticeable CGI was jarring to the visuals, Mako is an unlikable asshole, the overpowered bloodbending powers are inexplicable and ruin the balance of the 4 elements, Korra is an awful avatar and the ending in particular was bullshit.

Tenzin's kids were funny, Lin was badass and Asami was a legitimately good character who had an actual arc...the only one, I'd say. Oh, and I really liked Naga. Great spirit animal and worthy successor to Appa. But they can't possibly make up for the all the mistakes that happened in Season 1, some of them irreparable. I'll watch Season 2, but if it screws up the spiritual stuff, Korra can join the Star Wars prequels and Matrix sequels in my mind of unofficial decanonization.

You took a long time to post after your previous post from a couple of weeks ago, it shows you took time...

I agree with a lot of the criticism about pacing, the lack of character developments, and the rushed romanced plot, but I am very much convinced that it was a result of the writers not adapting to the 12 episode format too well, and the new mini-series about Mako and Bolin's youth is proof that these characters DO have a lot of thought and story behind them. I had no problem with pro-bending, but I can see how it kind of seems like a nuisance in a 12 episode series. It's a shame that Bryan and Mike weren't able to take into account the fact that they would have 56 episodes to develop the Korra and Mako relationship at a more realistic pace, but you are also forgetting that, well, teenage romance sometimes really are like that.

But look, most of your complaints are basically "Korra isn't Aang, and I loved Aang, and why can't every Avatar be like Aang?" You even believe that, for some reason, Tenzin is supposed to be a replacement for Iroh. Yes, they share similar traits and functions in the narrative, but Tenzin, IMO, wasn't meant to be the same type of mentor as Iroh. In fact, the creators have said repeatedly (especially in the Blu-Ray commentaries) that the whole series is purposely very different from ATLA in every respect, even in the type of journey the hero will take. Korra isn't Aang, not every Avatar is a wise young Buddhist monk. Korra has a LOT of fans, especially female, precisely because she is very much a teenage girl that just happens to love her powers, and is frustrated that she's been locked-up and over protected throughout her life. It is a VERY different problem and a whole other story from ATLA, and yeah, It might not appeal to some of the mostly male fans of Aang's personality and journey, but that's just the way it is. Korra isn't Aang.
 

Joeytj

Banned
My eyes can't roll hard enough.

Apparently, since the bender-equalist situation didn't really require anything except shutting up the rabble rouser, we basically are left to two different conclusions. Either:

1. The inequality problem was greatly overstated by Amon and all his supporters are whiners who were trying to grab power, utterly neutering the fascinating political angle of the first season.

or

2. The avatar, who is suppose to ensure balance, is ignoring the plights of the people and considers the problem solved because she punched out the badguy.

No matter how you look at it, this reflects horribly on the show.

*sigh* no. While it's true that each Book is intended to be a mostly self-contained story, the Book 2: Episode 1 recap of the ending of Book 1, did give hints that they will continue to develop Republic City's problems, and how even the Spirit World ties together with the current problems between nations. One of the hints is the fact that they disbanded the Council and now a non-bender President was elected, and the show's producers went out of their way to show the President and his wife, meaning that he could be an important character later on.

BUT yeah, overall, LOK will not be ONE grand epic story like ATLA (well, at least, as far as we now). We've known that since the start.
 
Korra has a lot to come back from in my opinion. To even call the first season 'good' is being generous. Everyone always rags on the romance and probending, which most definitely sucked, but I could have lived with that if the amon story was good...and it was, while it was still cloaked in mystery. But the last few episodes revealed the true state of things. Amon was a con-man and a hypocrite, his powers were bullshit and made no sense, and the Elitists weren't even actually oppressed and were just a bunch of whiners.

On top of that, Korra, as a character, never really bettered herself at all. She just got increasingly sad when she wasn't getting what she wanted until the universe would caves in and gives it to her on silver platter. "You like Mako but he doesn't like you? Well, what about this Bolin guy, he's nice and...no? Okay, Mako likes you now even though he didn't show any interest in you before and has no reason to show interest now." "Can't airbend, huh? Well, keep at it and you'll get it...Mako's gonna die and you don't have anything else? *sigh*, fine, here, even though attachment to earthly possessions is not how spirituality works" "You have airbending now, so now you can start learning the avatar state. Okay, so the first chakra is...no, stop crying. You see, you have to make the chi flow by releasing your...hey, come on, concentrate....oh, you know what, screw it, here, just take it. Atleast try to use it responsibly, and not on frivolous things like races against children. " She just gets stuff, without really earning it. It'd be bad enough in a stand alone storyline, but it especially grates when you remember all the shit Aang had to go through to succeed. If he could win by just being sad enough, the first series would have been over in the 3rd episode, when he stumbled upon the genocide of his people. But apparently that isn't nearly as harrowing as Korra not getting to throw fireballs again. It just feels disrespectful to the character, and that's just one example of many.

The probending angle sucked, the romance sucked, the humor had it's moments but not as frequent as TLA's, Bolin has no reason to exist except to remind us how much funnier Sokka was, the bending wasn't as creative or even as powerful which is odd given how Korra was made out to be more of a powerhouse than Aang, Tenzin pretty boring and kind of incompetent and a poor replacement for Iroh, the intriguing political angle ended up being a sham, the frequent and noticeable CGI was jarring to the visuals, Mako is an unlikable asshole, the overpowered bloodbending powers are inexplicable and ruin the balance of the 4 elements, Korra is an awful avatar and the ending in particular was bullshit.

Tenzin's kids were funny, Lin was badass and Asami was a legitimately good character who had an actual arc...the only one, I'd say. Oh, and I really liked Naga. Great spirit animal and worthy successor to Appa. But they can't possibly make up for the all the mistakes that happened in Season 1, some of them irreparable. I'll watch Season 2, but if it screws up the spiritual stuff, Korra can join the Star Wars prequels and Matrix sequels in my mind of unofficial decanonization.

This sums up how I feel, for the most part. It's hard to care about Korra or Mako, because they whine over the most trivial shit, and then get things they probably don't deserve. Asami finds out her father is a goddamn terrorist and that her boyfriend is cheating on her, and she keeps trucking, getting pretty much nothing to show for it.
 

Shags

Banned
But look, most of your complaints are basically "Korra isn't Aang, and I loved Aang, and why can't every Avatar be like Aang?" You even believe that, for some reason, Tenzin is supposed to be a replacement for Iroh. Yes, they share similar traits and functions in the narrative, but Tenzin, IMO, wasn't meant to be the same type of mentor as Iroh. In fact, the creators have said repeatedly (especially in the Blu-Ray commentaries) that the whole series is purposely very different from ATLA in every respect, even in the type of journey the hero will take. Korra isn't Aang, not every Avatar is a wise young Buddhist monk. Korra has a LOT of fans, especially female, precisely because she is very much a teenage girl that just happens to love her powers, and is frustrated that she's been locked-up and over protected throughout her life. It is a VERY different problem and a whole other story from ATLA, and yeah, It might not appeal to some of the mostly male fans of Aang's personality and journey, but that's just the way it is. Korra isn't Aang.

That's probably the best defense for Korra I've seen, however I think this was Veelk's main point:
She just gets stuff, without really earning it
 

Joeytj

Banned
That's probably the best defense for Korra I've seen, however I think this was Veelk's main point: She just gets stuff, without really earning it

I know it was, but I actually think that Veelk's point is influenced by his refusal to look at Korra's adventure as something other than a "copy" of Aang's, instead of two very different stories and journeys. In fact, the show is basically about that, how Korra being born talented and protected has also made her an arrogant Avatar, learning in reverse compared to Aang, and she will mature throughout the four Books.

Korra was BORN lucky, pretty much, and taking a reference from Zuko's story. At the age of four, she had the gift—or talent— of already knowing she was the Avatar and even using three elements. By the time the show starts, she has mastered three elements, and whether handed over to her or not, mastering her powers isn't the point of the show, or at least, it isn't what will define Korra's maturity into adulthood or a great Avatar. It is almost an exact opposite of Aang. A mature boy Avatar who mastered the elements vs. a girl who has already mastered the elements and is maturing into the Avatar.

It is worth mentioning that Bryan and Mike have already confirmed that Korra unlocked her airbending after she thought of using it to defend someone besides her. That might go against what we learned about Air Nomad culture, but we have to remember that Aang also proved that being and love and being good at airbending and unlocking the Avatar state aren't incompatible, and can actually help! So, Korra unlocking airbending because of selfless defense doesn't seem all that controversial to me.

It is worth mentioning, I think, that it seems Water Avatars are sort of the same, because Kuruk was talented and hotheaded as well. That didn't go so well for him, as we can see, which is why Korra's story is a "Legend", probably because she manages to buck the trend of Water Avatars screwing up.
 

Joeytj

Banned
AND ANOTHER THING!

Yeah, I keep bringing this up, but most of the people who have a problem with Korra "getting everything for no effort at all" are fans of ATLA's epic journey format, because I haven't seen that complaint come from non-ATLA familiar fans of Korra. People who haven't seen ALTA usually don't complain about how "she gets everything", and enjoy the show because of what it is, a show about a powerful teenage girl who is learning to be more patient and better fit the role she is destined to hold, and don't hate it because of what it isn't.

Yes, I agree that Book 1 had its mistakes, it rushed stories that are meant to be developed over more than 12 episodes, and the creators have no excuse since LOK was originally a single Book mini-series, so they had to take that in mind before stuffing the series with to many plots and characters that they couldn't adequately handle.
 

Shags

Banned
I know it was, but I actually think that Veelk's point is influenced by his refusal to look at Korra's adventure as something other than a "copy" of Aang's, instead of two very different stories and journeys. In fact, the show is basically about that, how Korra being born talented and protected has also made her an arrogant Avatar, learning in reverse compared to Aang, and she will mature throughout the four Books.
It is worth mentioning that Bryan and Mike have already confirmed that Korra unlocked her airbending after she thought of using it to defend someone besides her.
Oh wow that's pretty awesome and I probably wouldn't have been able to see it that way.


So does that mean Korra is supposed to evoke antipathetic feelings at this point in the story?

Edit: The post above does make a good point - but it's hard not to compare LoK with TLA!!
 

Veelk

Banned
You took a long time to post after your previous post from a couple of weeks ago, it shows you took time...

I don't really understand what your talking about. I made a post on page 7, but this new post wasn't in reply to anything in particular. It was basically a new conversation starter.

I agree with a lot of the criticism about pacing, the lack of character developments, and the rushed romanced plot, but I am very much convinced that it was a result of the writers not adapting to the 12 episode format too well, and the new mini-series about Mako and Bolin's youth is proof that these characters DO have a lot of thought and story behind them. I had no problem with pro-bending, but I can see how it kind of seems like a nuisance in a 12 episode series. It's a shame that Bryan and Mike weren't able to take into account the fact that they would have 56 episodes to develop the Korra and Mako relationship at a more realistic pace, but you are also forgetting that, well, teenage romance sometimes really are like that.

My criticisms aren't with the pacing, largely. That's fine. It's the actual content that I am criticizing. And getting 3 5 minute episodes telling Mako's and Bolin's backstory (in which the first piece of information is basically spent telling us things we already know), is not what I would call having a lot of thought put into them.

But look, most of your complaints are basically "Korra isn't Aang, and I loved Aang, and why can't every Avatar be like Aang?" You even believe that, for some reason, Tenzin is supposed to be a replacement for Iroh. Yes, they share similar traits and functions in the narrative, but Tenzin, IMO, wasn't meant to be the same type of mentor as Iroh. In fact, the creators have said repeatedly (especially in the Blu-Ray commentaries) that the whole series is purposely very different from ATLA in every respect, even in the type of journey the hero will take. Korra isn't Aang, not every Avatar is a wise young Buddhist monk. Korra has a LOT of fans, especially female, precisely because she is very much a teenage girl that just happens to love her powers, and is frustrated that she's been locked-up and over protected throughout her life. It is a VERY different problem and a whole other story from ATLA, and yeah, It might not appeal to some of the mostly male fans of Aang's personality and journey, but that's just the way it is. Korra isn't Aang.

First off, this just shows to me that you haven't read my post. Never once did I ever say that Korra had to be like Aang. The only comparison to Aang I brought up is that the universe bends over backwards for Korra whenever she is unhappy and that it did not do so for Aang. And that's because it's bad storytelling. The universe shouldn't bend over for any character arbitrarily, what happens should be justified within the narrative. Korra getting what she wants because she's sad isn't adequate justification, especially when it didn't work like that for Aang who is her equivelent.

I don't resent Korra in any way for having the personality that she does. By all means, she CAN be in love with being the avatar and love fighting and be immature. That's all fine. What the problem is that those things are flaws and Korra should be developed out of these things, learn better. Aang had flaws too, the biggest of which is that he wanted to avoid his responsibilities as an avatar, because he wanted to be a kid and have fun. And the result of that negligence was that he lost his people to a genocide and now is faced with fixing the world by fighting back against the fire nation. Throughout the series, Aang matures and learns to take his avatar responsibilities seriously and as he matures, he gains more powers as the avatar. Because that's how being the avatar works. He needed to understand the culture of the Earth Kingdom, to face a problem directly and confidently, before he could earthbend. He needed to understand spirituality before he could connect to his avatar state. Korra, on the other hand, thinks being an avatar is just being a superhero, you go punch out the bad guy and go home. She jumps into that lifestyle without properly understanding what it is. She is completely linked to the external practices of bending, none of the spiritual side. This attitude and lack of wisdom is something that would hamper her capability of fulfilling her duties. But that's not how it's portrayed within the series at all. Her idea that being the avatar just means punching out the bad guy isn't deconstructed to make way for a better understanding, it's enforced, especially by the ending. She gained all her powers, while learning nothing. That's not at all what it means to be the avatar. That she never learns this is why she can't be a good avatar and why the story was executed so poorly. It's contradicting everything TLA taught us without adequate reason to. Lack of internal consistency is bad storytelling.

So no, my problem is not that "it's different". Asami is probably the shows equivelent of Toph, but despite that she is VERY different from her, she fills that role well. While disadvantaged, she has her own unique powers (MONEY!) and uses her cleverness to beat opponents that should outmatch her and has the determination to free herself from her parent's control. That's basically Toph, yet completely different with a completely different personality and arc. That's my problem. Other characters don't fill their roles well. I don't care that Tenzin isn't a jolly fat man, I care that he doesn't dispense any spiritual wisdom beyond "shut up and meditate", which is what he is suppose to do as the mentor figure, especailly to the avatar who is trying to learn airbending. While Uncle was constantly trying to instill lessons into Zuko, Tenzin was completely clueless how to help Korra, so he just taught her physical positions of airbending when that's the least important thing for her to learn. If that's the 'difference' you were criticising me for attacking, I say it should be attacked. The teacher of the avatar should not be this incompetent. The avatar should not be rewarded for ignorance.

*sigh* no. While it's true that each Book is intended to be a mostly self-contained story, the Book 2: Episode 1 recap of the ending of Book 1, did give hints that they will continue to develop Republic City's problems, and how even the Spirit World ties together with the current problems between nations. One of the hints is the fact that they disbanded the Council and now a non-bender President was elected, and the show's producers went out of their way to show the President and his wife, meaning that he could be an important character later on.

BUT yeah, overall, LOK will not be ONE grand epic story like ATLA (well, at least, as far as we now). We've known that since the start.

Oh yes, that's fantastic. The conflict that should have been center stage is resolved offscreen between seasons. If Korra has nothing to do it with it, then that'll just be the cherry on top of Korra being a shit avatar. And it doesn't change that we were given no real evidence that there is a stark inequality like amon described, which is the actual problem with the conflict.

A story doesn't need to be a grand epic to be well written. Korra, thus far, has not been well written.

Yeah, I keep bringing this up, but most of the people who have a problem with Korra "getting everything for no effort at all" are fans of ATLA's epic journey format, because I haven't seen that complaint come from non-ATLA familiar fans of Korra. People who haven't seen ALTA usually don't complain about how "she gets everything", and enjoy the show because of what it is, a show about a powerful teenage girl who is learning to be more patient and better fit the role she is destined to hold, and don't hate it because of what it isn't.

Then those people haven't been paying attention, because you can see that she learns nothing yet gets everything anyway without watching TLA. At best, they just accept it because they don't know how spirituality has been established in the universe and how Korra's stuff directly contradicts it, but even then, there are dues ex machinas.
 
It was just so boring to watch. There were so many limitations that it felt like it hindered people's ability to bend.

I wanted to see something like this (note: mute the audio): an all-out fight in an open arena where almost anything goes to force your opponent(s) to stop fighting. I know it sounds a lot more brutal, but it would be a ton more enjoyable to watch a wide variety of techniques compared to the monotony of probending.

I can understand where you are coming from but that is still one of the things I liked most about the season. It might have something to do with the fact that I'm a fan of old school boxing and seeing bending being done with classic jabs and crosses like they were using really got me into it. I guess different strokes for different folks.
 

Joeytj

Banned
I can understand where you are coming from but that is still one of the things I liked most about the season. It might have something to do with the fact that I'm a fan of old school boxing and seeing bending being done with classic jabs and crosses like they were using really got me into it. I guess different strokes for different folks.

THIS. I'm not a fan of boxing or MMA very much, and I didn't enjoy pro-bending like that exactly, but I can at least understand that that is what it's meant to be, and that others enjoy it.

I'm not going to quote Veeiks long post which quotes me quoting him... but I will say that he just keeps repeating himself by continuously comparing LOK to ALTA, which is understandable, but he actually kind of made my point:

Korra, on the other hand, thinks being an avatar is just being a superhero, you go punch out the bad guy and go home. She jumps into that lifestyle without properly understanding what it is. She is completely linked to the external practices of bending, none of the spiritual side. This attitude and lack of wisdom is something that would hamper her capability of fulfilling her duties. But that's not how it's portrayed within the series at all. Her idea that being the avatar just means punching out the bad guy isn't deconstructed to make way for a better understanding, it's enforced, especially by the ending. She gained all her powers, while learning nothing. That's not at all what it means to be the avatar. That she never learns this is why she can't be a good avatar and why the story was executed so poorly.

YES, dude, that is the point of LOK. Tenzin in Episode 1 of Book 2 even complains again that Korra hasn't learned much, but her Uncle says that it's understandable, since she's been locked-up since a kid. I watched the leaked episode (and found a better version than the initial leaked video), and we get really good dialogue between Korra, her father and Tenzin that actually makes you understand Korra a bit better (I won't spoil it) and kind of even justifies her hotheadedness, and the episode touches on why Korra is still frustrated with being handled by her father and Tenzin like a kid, on the fact that she is still impatient, even after the Amon conflict (it's mentioned more than once) and her being defeated by a spirit while in the Avatar State, makes her realize that she still needs more training and to explore the world.

I AGREE that, if Bryke thought that Book 1 by itself, like it was originally intended to be, would've made a good story about Korra learning her lessons, then they failed a bit.

BUT, with 3 more Books on the way, Book 1 doesn't seem like a total waste in retrospect, considering that we will get to see Mako, Bolin, Asami, Korra, Tenzin and other characters get a lot more development and might even make us understand their actions better.

Well, at least I hope! Ha.
 

Veelk

Banned
I'm not going to quote Veeiks long post which quotes me quoting him... but I will say that he just keeps repeating himself by continuously comparing LOK to ALTA, which is understandable, but he actually kind of made my point:

I'm only comparing directly comparing it insofar as how the avatars fulfill their function. That is a valid point of comparison because they are SUPPOSE to be the same in this regard. They literally have the same job: Maintain balance between the four nations. I'm willing to accept they are different people, but if Korra is going to be a good avatar, then she needs to learn the to fix her shortcomings in order to maintain that balance. Like Aang did. Like Kuruk did. Like presumably every avatar before her did because avatars are humans too and flawed and need to make an effort to correct their flaws so they can fulfill the function of the avatar. In this, Korra is not different.

Or, by your logic, Bryke could have turned off gravity in LoK without giving any kind of explanation except "It's not meant to have gravity like in TLA. It's different!" Does that sound like an acceptable explanation to you?

YES, dude, that is the point of LOK. Tenzin in Episode 1 of Book 2 even complains again that Korra hasn't learned much, but her Uncle says that it's understandable, since she's been locked-up since a kid. I watched the leaked episode (and found a better version than the initial leaked video), and we get really good dialogue between Korra, her father and Tenzin that actually makes you understand Korra a bit better (I won't spoil it) and kind of even justifies her hotheadedness, and the episode touches on why Korra is still frustrated with being handled by her father and Tenzin like a kid, on the fact that she is still impatient, even after the Amon conflict (it's mentioned more than once) and her being defeated by a spirit while in the Avatar State, makes her realize that she still needs more training and to explore the world.

I AGREE that, if Bryke thought that Book 1 by itself, like it was originally intended to be, would've made a good story about Korra learning her lessons, then they failed a bit.

BUT, with 3 more Books on the way, Book 1 doesn't seem like a total waste in retrospect, considering that we will get to see Mako, Bolin, Asami, Korra, Tenzin and other characters get a lot more development and might even make us understand their actions better.

Well, at least I hope! Ha.

That's all fine, but my problems with the ending of korra is that the universe validated her by granting her airbending and the avatar state when there was no reason to. Even if she realizes her shortcomings on a personal level later on, the avatar world wasn't' suppose to work like it did in Book 1. You don't get airbending just because you really really want it. The airbending is suppose to come with the character development, not before, like all the elements. This is what I meant when i said somethings they did are already irreparable. Even if Korra puts her head on straight, the internal consistency of the nature of the avatar is broken. Maybe they can come up with a justification for why it happened like this later on, but at this point, it'd just be damage control.

I sincerely hope Book 2 is better, but knowing how much they screwed up Book 1, I can't be hyped. I'm just hoping that they don't screw things up any more than they already have.
 

Mononoke

Banned
AND ANOTHER THING!

Yeah, I keep bringing this up, but most of the people who have a problem with Korra "getting everything for no effort at all" are fans of ATLA's epic journey format, because I haven't seen that complaint come from non-ATLA familiar fans of Korra. People who haven't seen ALTA usually don't complain about how "she gets everything", and enjoy the show because of what it is, a show about a powerful teenage girl who is learning to be more patient and better fit the role she is destined to hold, and don't hate it because of what it isn't.

Yes, I agree that Book 1 had its mistakes, it rushed stories that are meant to be developed over more than 12 episodes, and the creators have no excuse since LOK was originally a single Book mini-series, so they had to take that in mind before stuffing the series with to many plots and characters that they couldn't adequately handle.

Aang already had the ability to go into the avatar state even before mastering all the elements. While I wouldn't say he "mastered" elements per se, he would learn bending a lot quicker than Korra ever did. Hell, he basically became a fire bending masters in ONE episode "The Firebending Masters'.

So I don't really understand why people rag on Korra so much for getting everything so easy. Especially when the plot takes place in her late teens (where she already had training). Although I do agree there is some conflict in continuity. For instance, most babies don't know they are the avatar. And they aren't told till they are 16. The fact that Korra could bend three elements as a kid was goofy, and feels kind out of place with Avatar.

Even the ending where Aang gives her all her powers back, how many times in Avatar did the Avatar State basically act as a cure all for Aang? It happens quite often in Avatar.

EDIT: I do agree with those saying she didn't "learn" what was actually important though. However, isn't that apart of her character? Aang was a monk, so it makes sense he was more willing to be in touch with what really mattered. He was much more introspective. That might explain why he could go into the Avatar state even before mastering it, and Korra could never do so (because she didn't know how to get in touch with her spiritual side). But you guys are right about the fact that, she spent all that time training - and yet her personality traits don't really line up with someone that went through all that training. For instance, her suggesting that they cheat at the pro-bending match seems out of line with an Avatar.
 

Mononoke

Banned
Wait people hated the probending stuff? That one is new to me. I liked the probending parts of the first season.

I didn't hate it. However, given that they knew they were limited on time to flesh out the Amon/Relationship/Character plots, they shouldn't have spent as much time on the pro-bending stuff as they did.

Just my opinion, of course.

EDIT: Supposedly these are the first 3 episode titles:

First #LegendOfKorra Book 2 episode titles:

"Rebel Spirit"
"The Southern Lights"
"Civil Wars (Parts 1 & 2)

Although it was posted by this: https://twitter.com/nickandmore/status/366995896086433795

Not really the most reliable source.
 

Joeytj

Banned
I didn't hate it. However, given that they knew they were limited on time to flesh out the Amon/Relationship/Character plots, they shouldn't have spent as much time on the pro-bending stuff as they did.

Just my opinion, of course.

EDIT: Supposedly these are the first 3 episode titles:

First #LegendOfKorra Book 2 episode titles:

"Rebel Spirit"
"The Southern Lights"
"Civil Wars (Parts 1 & 2)

Although it was posted by this: https://twitter.com/nickandmore/status/366995896086433795

Not really the most reliable source.

They actually are! They got the final episode titles for Book 1 right. They apparently were able to take a pick at Nick's schedule for September. Source: DongfuFeng.net
 

Mononoke

Banned
They actually are! They got the final episode titles for Book 1 right. They apparently were able to take a pick at Nick's schedule for September. Source: DongfuFeng.net

I didn't know that, thanks for confirming (never heard of them before).

Also, supposedly the release date for this has been leaked/confirmed. September 7th.
 
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