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Japanese music composers vs Western music composers

B

BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO

Junior Member
Is there any reason why western music composers don't usually do "centerpiece" music? That's not to say western music composers don't make good music but I have never played a game from the west and felt like the music is one of the main parts of the game. It's kinda hard to explain, I feel like western music in video games don't catch my attention and that it's just "there". I feel like most western music is to "ambient" or "mellow" and gets lost if you don't pay attention to it. I feel like it's impossible for you to play a final fantasy or any other notable Japanese games and not notice the absolutely fantastic high budget music. Although you don't really need a 300 man opera to make "centerpiece" music.

Here are some examples :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfu0XBf8kmk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3gEKpGD4D4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdMhTL5bZrs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 
C

Catshade

Member
9thwonder said:
Is there any reason why western music composers don't usually do "centerpiece" music? That's not to say western music composers don't make good music but I have never played a game from the west and felt like the music is one of the main parts of the game. It's kinda hard to explain, I feel like western music in video games don't catch my attention and that it's just "there". I feel like most western music is to "ambient" or "mellow" and gets lost if you don't pay attention to it. I feel like it's impossible for you to play a final fantasy or any other notable Japanese games and not notice the absolutely fantastic high budget music. Although you don't really need a 300 man opera to make "centerpiece" music.
Click to expand...

Probably because many Western VG music direction tried to mimic western movie soundtrack direction?
 
F

FreedomFighter

Member
I listen to Japanese game music way more than I do Western game music and like them better overall. Still, I think one of the absolute best game soundtracks growing up was Beanland's Jet Force Gemini score. Nobody got the N64 to sing like Rare did. That score doesn't have the same impact it had on me back in '99, but it was amazing back then in Dolby Pro Logic on a good set up.
 
G

GrizzNKev

Banned
Have you played Halo 1, 2, 3, ODST, or Reach?

I'll take it you haven't.

They don't have sound options because they don't want you turning down the music.
 
T

Tribes of Trusty

Member
I think the idea you're referring to OP is a motif. While it can be incredibly awesome when it's well done (In your examples, lots of FFXIII musics are based on Lightning's motif, P3 on "Aria of the Soul", "Burn my Dread" and "Kimi No Kioku", and P4 on "I'll face myself" and "Reach out to the Truth"), it can be felt as a lack of inspiration to rehash the same basic tune several times over (like in Zelda Link's Awakening. I love the series' motif, but I grew tired of it at the end of LA).
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
OP asked the right question.

I'd say that the Japanese game industry developed its musical model in the Famicom era, when music could really be the entire soul of the game. There was no voice acting, no atmospheric audio, simple sound FX. The music was front and center; meant to be heard. And even in the modern day, the Japanese industry continues that tradition of "centerpiece" music, as the OP calls it. (to great benefit, I would say. Japanese music produces some of the most unique and experimental music, and it's so listenable outside of the game)

The western game music industry probably thinks of itself as "score", much like Hollywood.


GrizzNKev said:
Have you played Halo 1, 2, 3, ODST, or Reach?

I'll take it you haven't.

They don't have sound options because they don't want you turning down the music.
Click to expand...
All of those are great.

And they're totally film score. You'd think they were the soundtracks to Hollywood films.

Countless Japanese games don't sound like "score" exactly.. They often sound like experimental music, perhaps more listenable outside of the game. (depends on taste, of course)
 
S

Soriku

Junior Member
Assassin's Creed 2 - Ezio's Family

Don't even care for Assassin's Creed but this is a really good track. I also really like Donkey Kong Country's OST.

I hardly play Western games but I imagine there's bound to be a lot of talented composers out there. It's just Japan has such a crazy repertoire of composers for their games. It's hard to compete with the likes of FF, Zelda, Mario, Shin Megami Tensei, Shadow Hearts, The World Ends With You, Kingdom Hearts, Nier, Xenogears/Saga/Blade, Chrono Trigger/Chross, Wild Arms, Suikoden, Baten Kaitos...you get the picture.
 
P

paradise_circus

Member
i wouldn't differentiate between west or east, because there are not so many games where the soundtrack is really immersive.

metal gear solid, uncharted, portal, all the pixeljunk games, portal, journey, max payne 3, god of war 3, halo, red dead redemption and some others are a really good example how the soundtrack is very mutual with the gameplay itself.

but then there are games like xenoblade or nier. i know that many fans love the soundtrack, but in my opinion the soundtrack is poorly implemented in the game and i don't even know how to describe it.
 
ZiZ

ZiZ

Member
I'm not sure I understand the question, do the tracks in Skyrim, Assassin's Creed and Mirrors Edge not count?
 
gingerbeardman

gingerbeardman

Member
Traditionally the Japanese use a different musical scale to us in the West. Which might have something to do with the perceived difference?
 
T

Tribes of Trusty

Member
paradise_circus said:
but then there are games like xenoblade or nier. i know that many fans love the soundtrack, but in my opinion the soundtrack is poorly implemented in the game and i don't even know how to describe it.
Click to expand...

Wait, what ? How ?

They're not scores or atmospheric music maybe, but how are they poorly implemented ?
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
TucoBenedictoPacifico said:
Mostly because it's kinda made up.
Click to expand...

"All cultures' art is the same!"

^ nonsense.

Different cultures (mostly in this case, mostly different corporate cultures) produce different styles of art.

20 years of listening to game music, mostly outside of the games, and Japanese and Western videogame music are like night and day.

I'm sure there are some western games which are more like "centerpiece" ditties, and I'm sure there are some Japanese games which are more atmospheric score. But these are exceptions that prove the rules.
 
R

redlemon

Member
I'd say it's difference in backgrounds. How many popular western video games composers started in videogames? I feel many come from a film or television background where the music is more often expected add by blending in rather than being a extremely strong component in it's own right. As opposed to composers in Japan who might have spent most of their career working in videogames.
 
M

Megalosaro

Banned
gingerbeardman said:
Traditionally the Japanese use a different musical scale to us in the West. Which might have something to do with the perceived difference?
Click to expand...

Perhaps for japanese folk music, but for game composition is mostly inspired by western styles. For example, Koichi Sugiyama's work is inspired a lot by baroque, jazz, and early Hollywood
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Japanese compositions fare better historically since japanese game development placed a great emphasis on music earlier on. And, for whatever reason, Japanese game music has a greater level of variety than western. The actual high quality work for each is about equal though, I'd say.
 
I

Illithid Dude

Member
I sort of understand what your talking about. I've also noticed a slight tonal difference between Japanese game OSTs and Western game OSTs. In a way, JOSTs are more whimsical than WOSTs. And I agree. I can't think of one western game with a soundtrack to match the tone of a Japanese game, with maybe the exception of the Assassins Creed games. I'll have to think about it...
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
redlemon said:
I'd say it's difference in backgrounds. How many popular western video games composers started in videogames? I feel many come from a film or television background where the music is more often expected add by blending in rather than being a extremely strong component in it's own right. As opposed to composers in Japan who might have spent most of their career working in videogames.
Click to expand...

That's a very good point.

Seems to me that most Western game composers I can think of, they were plucked from symphonic or Hollywood backgrounds. And they're often chosen to give the games particular existing styles.

While in Japan, they're mostly "in the industry". And that's leads to experimentation. Again, I say the corporate cultures have a lot to do with it, rather than culture culture.
 
Neff

Neff

Member
Japan is big on leitmotif, that's why. Not to mention that they've been taking videogame composition very seriously for much longer than the West.

BocoDragon said:
That's a very good point.

Seems to me that most Western game composers I can think of, they were plucked from symphonic or Hollywood backgrounds. And they're often chosen to give the games particular existing styles.

While in Japan, they're mostly "in the industry". And that's leads to experimentation. Again, I say the corporate cultures have a lot to do with it, rather than culture culture.
Click to expand...

All very true.
 
M

Moosichu

Member
Journey, God of War and Uncharted have good music. The Last of Us theme sounds great as well. Although my favourite is Metal Gear Solid.
 
T

Tribes of Trusty

Member
paradise_circus said:
maybe because its just listens like a dj is standing right next to you and is changing the tracks, when you enter a new map, a battle or whatever
Click to expand...
That's...a staple of JRPG. It isn't a problem you have with Xenoblade or Nier in particular, but with all the genre's music then :)

Edit : Plus, I can think of a good use of music in Nier, in Nier's village, there is a woman singing and the music changes accordingly, the closer you are the more it replaces the village's theme :)
 
Sentenza

Sentenza

Member
9thwonder said:
Care to show me some songs from western games that are touching the ones in the Op?
Click to expand...
How could I?
For a start, this music you posted in the OP doesn't click anything special for me (and I even played two of these three games, for the record) so I'm not even sure what sort of "peak" I should reach.
Beside, you have already your subjective bias so I would guess that no matter what I could link to you, you would dismiss it claiming "It's not so dreamy as my beloved japanese music".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k26rXxiRhc8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rtiAQk3ojE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCk8ByyCsks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d689QT0nEY4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcFdB1lTIRA
 
L

LayLa

Member
BocoDragon said:
That's a very good point.

Seems to me that most Western game composers I can think of, they were plucked from symphonic or Hollywood backgrounds. And they're often chosen to give the games particular existing styles.

While in Japan, they're mostly "in the industry". And that's leads to experimentation. Again, I say the corporate cultures have a lot to do with it, rather than culture culture.
Click to expand...

This. I would also say that Japanese video game composers seem to be more integrated into the workflow of how a game is made - I personally know someone who worked on the soundtrack to a couple of AAA western games and he never saw game footage until after his work was done, he is just given vague references to work from which were all film-based.
 
M

MrT-Tar

Member
David Wise and whoever was behind the soundtrack of the first Metroid Prime are really the only Western composers whose work I love to the same degree of my favourite Japanese game composers.
 
ULTROS!

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
From what I've noticed, Japanese composers tend to focus on motifs and minimalism. A lot have recently added vocal songs. Western composers, like the previous posters said, composed for movies and these music end up grandiose or more environmental.

I'll add that composers for indie games tend to be more experimental.
 
P

paradise_circus

Member
Tribes of Trusty said:
That's...a staple of JRPG. It isn't a problem you have with Xenoblade or Nier in particular, but with all the genre's music then :)

Edit : Plus, I can think of a good use of music in Nier, in Nier's village, there is a woman singing and the music changes accordingly, the closer you are the more it replaces the village's theme :)
Click to expand...

i like the music and i didn't said that the music is bad, but for me there are better games with more immersive music.
 
W

Why would you do that?

Member
From my observation, Japanese game music tends to have strong, prominent melodies as opposed to a lot of American game music which tends to either be atmospheric or not having a prominent melody (i.e. it's hard to hum American game music).

Of course, that's not exclusive. Not all Japanese music or American music is as I describe.

Maybe that has to do with how the OP perceives Japanese music as being more "centerpiece."
 
D

DICKS AHOY

Banned
9thwonder said:
I totally forgot about them. Diddy Kong racing is them right? The music is noticeable but not what I call "centerpiece" music.
Click to expand...

I'd argue a few tracks from the first two DKC's can compare to that operatic feel you're getting at in your OP. Aquatic Ambience and Stickerbush Symphony instantly spring to mind as intentionally big, majestic pieces that are integral to the enjoyment of those games, and David Wise sure as hell wasn't plucked from a Hollywood background; the Stamper bros. found him working in a music shop years earlier.

Not entirely related, but here's a neat twist on the whole west/east theme with Square's Masashi Hamauzu remixing Aquatic Ambience.
 
Sentenza

Sentenza

Member
9thwonder said:
I never said they weren't. I said the music usually doesn't stand out.
Edit :imo
Click to expand...
Which is why I said it's a made-up, arbitrary, subjective distinction.

The music you posted doesn't stand out either, as far as I'm concerned.
I would pick Braid's Downstream above everything you posted. Actually, even above 90% of what people usually post in threads like this.
 
N

nOoblet16

Member
You want touching music ? Take most of the osts from ANY game which has composition from Jesper Kyd...specifically Assassin's Creed 2:

Venice This gives me the chills.

Florence theme


The others would be Deus Ex Human Revolution (Icarus, Opening theme), Any Halo game, Metal Gear Solid (what's as memorable as MGS2 theme ?), Mass Effect menu theme


My favorite game OSTs are from Japanese games but on a general level I find western compositions better because a lot of Japanese compositions rely heavily on melodies and old school stuff while a lot of western music tends to be ambient and calm sounding.
 
A

Aru

Member
I also tend to remember/appreciate japanese soundtracks more than american/european ones. Outside of Jesper Kyd and Jeremy Soule, I'm not sure I even know a famous composer who's not japanese.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
TucoBenedictoPacifico said:
Which is why I said it's a made-up, arbitrary, subjective distinction.

The music you posted doesn't stand out either, as far as I'm concerned.
I would pick Braid's Downstream above everything you posted. Actually, even above 90% of what people usually post in threads like this.
Click to expand...

"Better" is subjective.

But to say that Japan and Western gaming don't put out very different styles of musical composition is silly.
 
Sentenza

Sentenza

Member
BocoDragon said:
"All cultures' art is the same!"

^ nonsense.
Click to expand...
BocoDragon said:
"Better" is subjective.

But to say that Japan and Western gaming don't put out very different styles of musical composition is silly.
Click to expand...
This is the second time you try to answer to me using the same strawman.
I'm not going to argue with someone who pretends to make up what I'm saying to have a leverage.

Beside, another thing that's really, *really* silly is pretending that cultural differences are limited to Japan vs "Rest of the world" (as a singular, cultural entity).
 
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