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Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen - Kickstarter - From Everquest's Brad McQuaid

Effect

Member
Thought this should get some more attention.

UDCzxQS.jpg

Image originally posted by Iadien in the kickstarter 2013 thread.

Kickstarter - Initial goal $800,000 - Stretch Goals - Deadline is Saturday Feb 22, 2:40pm EST
Official website
YouTube Channel
Community Q&A #1
Community Q&A #2
Community Q&A #3
Community Q&A #4
Community Q&A #5
Community Q&A #6
Community Q&A #7
Twitter
PC Gamer Preview - 1/13/2014
PC Gamer Preview - 1/22/2014
Gamepedia Interview 46mins long - 1/25/2014

Developer Interview with a look at the area Sunken Sanctum on The Rob & Dan Show

Game Summary
Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen is a group-focused MMORPG based on challenging gameplay and open world high fantasy. It takes place on a world populated by deities and heroes, called Terminus. Mortal and planar shards which have collided create the dramatic and epic environment of Terminus. With some of those shards came deities and demigods that, over time, raised empires which forged the turbulent political landscape. Centuries later, new planar collisions have occurred that will pull the players into the world and its politics. The player is a legendary hero, stripped of his or her powerful relics and left to explore the dramatically diverse and epic regions of Terminus with hopes of reclaiming their relics and those of lost heroes.

Pantheon’s combat places a focus on preparation and awareness of the enemy. The player can actively dodge, block, or deflect attacks. Spell and ability pre-selection is critical to defeat encounters, as is forging alliances with other players. You won't want to be caught in the wilds of Terminus alone, but exploration of the vast and dramatically diverse world landscapes will be richly rewarding. Through exploration the player can uncover mysteries and unique adventures as well as acquire rare and exotic spells and abilities from dungeons and challenging encounters.

Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen is an intensely social game for the determined thrill-seeker, because we believe that the greatest sense of accomplishment comes when it is shared. Imagine a vast, detailed world of swords and sorcery, of dragons and knights, of fiery swords and chests overflowing with treasure. A world in which a myriad of sentient races and creatures live and affect change.

Currently Announced Classes and Races

What is Visionary Realms?
Visionary Realms, Inc. was founded by Brad McQuaid and an elite group of experienced MMO developers. We've worked on EverQuest (original game and just about every expansion), EverQuest 2 (original game and just about every expansion), Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, EverQuest Next, Free Realms, Star Wars: Galaxies, Star Trek: Hidden Evil, Myst 3: Exile, and more. (See full bio)


Game Details from the KS page
- An MMO developed by gamers who aren't afraid to target an audience of like-minded gamers.
- A fantasy themed Massively Multiplayer Role Playing game (MMO) with a heavy focus on character development, an immersive world, and teamwork.
- An MMO for players wanting a challenging and rewarding experience.
- An open world in which you explore to obtain not only more powerful items but also new spells and abilities.
- Travel where and when you want to in a non-linear world.
- A huge world to explore, trade, and adventure in.
- A complex back-story that players may gradually discover as they grow in power and explore the world.
- A constantly expanding and evolving world.
- Group-focused social gameplay using a class based system to encourage teamwork.
- Customize your class by bonding with the spirits of fallen warriors.
- Reactive combat where you can determine what the NPC is doing and react to it. (move, counter, deflect, etc.) .
- Combat will be challenging and involved -- your decisions will matter and directly affect the battle's outcome.
- Travel the world and profit from selling exotic items collected from distant realms.
- Different cities and outposts may have local Bazaars.
- Limited and class based teleportation may get you close, but in order to reach many destinations you will have to traverse the planar scarred lands of Terminus through the use of your own two feet or on the back of your mighty steed.
-Earning experience is only part of what it takes to level up. Exploring the world you will gain knowledge and power allowing you to overcome more powerful enemies.
- The game will run on PC, Mac, and possibly other platforms in the future.

Screenshots (placeholder art) - Pre-Alpha

Edit:

Work-in-progress shots. Update #10

Sunken Sanctum

Cross-Game Pledging

Holy crap! Richard Garriott and Brad McQuaid teaming up?!?! Not on a game, but helping each other with crowd funding. It's like I'm going back in time, new MMO Shroud of the Avatar from Garriott and a new hardcore old style MMO from McQuaid... love it!

Visionary Realms' Brad McQuaid and Portalarium's Richard Garriott are announcing a collaboration between their two crowdfunded MMO projects in Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen and Shroud of the Avatar, respectively.

Cross-game pledge tiers will reward those who back both projects with a cloak in both games. Backers of both projects will receive a cloak in Pantheon featuring Lord British's Coat of Arms (the Shroud of the Avatar symbol) and a cloak in Shroud of the Avatar with the Pantheon symbol.

“The opportunity to work with Portalarium is extremely exciting, not just in terms of what we can do together with our games, but also on a very personal level,” said Brad McQuaid, Chief Creative Officer of Visionary Realms, Inc. “Lord British has been a hero of mine since I was a teen, and ultimately was responsible for inspiring me into the video game industry. Lord British and Portalarium continue to be an inspiration with ‘Shroud of the Avatar.’ It’s a perfect example of how the core elements of games from years past can continue to influence and innovate in today’s industry.”

Richard ‘Lord British’ Garriott, Portalarium’s Co-Founder and CEO, added: “There is no doubt that Brad McQuaid led EverQuestto become the standard bearer against which all other MMOs would be compared, and most have been patterned. Just as I hope fans are excited about the return of the King of Britannia in Shroud of the Avatar, I have no doubt that Brad McQuaid will leadPantheon to fulfill and expand the vision he began in the earliest days of the MMO era, and grow it into the future. I for one, look forward to what I will again learn from his leadership in gaming.”

McQuaid continued to say that "the evolution of how MMOs are made is happening right now. We're getting back to having the gaming community deeply involved in how the games are not only funded, but designed. A collaboration like this one only makes sense to further strengthen that growing community that involves not just the players and backers, but the developers as well."


Got from http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/1006/view/news/read/29887/Pantheon-Rise-of-the-Fallen-Richard-Garriott-and-Brad-McQuaid-TeamUp-.html
 

Jarnet87

Member
Wish McQuaid had just stayed on EQ. Isn't Rift or Vanguard out there for more hardcore players? I think one of those games requires groups and has lots of PvE content.
 

Whompa

Member
Warriors of the Fallen
Lords of the Fallen
Heroes of the Fallen
Rise of the Fallen

And how many times is the word Rise being used recently?

this is so much more manufactured just on a marketing level than they are trying to make you believe...

and their pitch is just words. I love LOVE EQ1, and these guys have a lot of talent...but I do hesitate to back a kickstarter MMO project. Sounds all too familiar.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
So it's Fun and Deep. What more could you want?!

There aren't really any hooks whatsoever in the pitch video. They're emphasizing grouping up. And grouping up.
 

Booter

Member
backed at $45. I'm a bit skeptical, and the campaign could be run better, but I was an EQ1 player from 2000-2003 and it was an amazing, amazing game.
 

Soygen

Member
So it's Fun and Deep. What more could you want?!

There aren't really any hooks whatsoever in the pitch video. They're emphasizing grouping up. And grouping up.

Yeah, the Kickstarter needs a lot of work. I wish Brad and his team all the luck in the world. I'm a huge fan of Everquest 1, but I don't really have much interest in playing a game like that these days. I know some people do, though. This Kickstarter will really gauge that level of interest for all to see, at least.
 

Effect

Member
The pitch certainly needs more work. However I wasn't sure about Camelot Unchained or Shroud of the Avatar originally either and those seemed to have come together over the course of their kickstarters and beyond. So I'm willing to pay attention to this one as well and see where it goes. They have 39 days from this point to sell this concept. I backed it for the time being, after regretting not backing Camelot Unchained in the new. However I have no problem canceling that though.

This looks like one of the more trustworthy and professional projects out there nonetheless but maybe its my nostalgia for EQ talking

That's another reason why I'm willing to pay attention. There is an actual record here with McQuaid. One that is more positive then negative I think.
 

Abounder

Banned
Good stuff although the Star Citizen approach probably would have been a little more interesting like: "They said MMORPGs are dead and only for console casuals"

This looks like one of the more trustworthy and professional projects out there nonetheless but maybe its my nostalgia for EQ talking
 

vilmer_

Member
Already backed this. I hope Brad and his team reach their goal, although like many others have said, this KS needs much more information.
 
Dislike the name but love the idea. It's going to have a monthly fee though? This seems like such a weird thing to kickstart to me as I've never done it.
 

Iadien

Guarantee I'm going to screw up this post? Yeah.
Dislike the name but love the idea. It's going to have a monthly fee though? This seems like such a weird thing to kickstart to me as I've never done it.

The first several levels will be free, but after that there will be a subscription required.
 

TheFatMan

Member
I backed it, entirely out of hopes that someone will make a MMO that makes me want to play MMO's again. I don't hold a lot of hope, but hey, didn't cost me much!
 

Effect

Member
Going by the pre-alpha shots it's looking like they might be using the Unity engine to make this, at least initially. This was added to the FAQ section.

Doesn't it take more than $800k to make an MMO?

Yes it does. Our intent for this Kickstarter is first to prove that there's enough of a demand for a group focused game that believes in the experience of the game instead of handholding, and to get the ball rolling on development. If we can get to the goal we will have proved that and will have enough to get this game started and be able to get our studio set up and operational. If we only get to the goal and little more, then we will visit other funding opportunities but first and foremost we wanted to make it possible to be completely crowdfunded so that you, the players, have more to do with what goes into the game than other powers would should we need to turn to those options later.
 

Iadien

Guarantee I'm going to screw up this post? Yeah.
If it ends up being remotely like we all think this one is supposed to, yes, yes we do. What we don't need are more wannabe wow killers.

Exactly. I'll back something that isn't trying to be a WoW clone like every other MMO.
 

spirity

Member
An MMO developed by gamers who aren't afraid to target an audience of like-minded gamers.

Got my attention with that. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard devs or PR say something similar over the years and its never turned out to be true. But this was the case with EQ1. I'm interested to see if they'll actually make the game they want to make.

A mindset that Designed Downtime should be a part of the game to ensure players have time to form important social bonds.

Interesting. I wonder if they're talking about medding. Mana in games these days isn't really much of a resource, you blow through it asap then med back to full in 15 secs. Not so in EQ, and it wasn't just the casters responsibility, mana was everyones responsibility, even melee.

An understanding that faction should be an integral part of interacting with the world and its citizenry.

I loved EQ1's faction system, I hope they're going for something as complex.

There's a lot of stuff I like about this, but I don't want to pour over every feature (ehh, "promise" might be a better word here) because its too early. During Vanguard's really early alpha stages Sigil were playing around with a pretty cool combat system that I didn't get to experience - it got pulled by the time I entered its beta, but it sounds pretty similar to what they're talking about in this game.

Very tempted to back this. They're saying the right things, but I dunno. I'm quite jaded.
 
On the one hand, I want what they want to make. On the other, I'm not sure what to think about McQuaid anymore. I'm gonna have to think about this one.
 

spirity

Member
On the one hand, I want what they want to make. On the other, I'm not sure what to think about McQuaid anymore. I'm gonna have to think about this one.

I just read this at rerolled.org on 'discussing past failures'.

If I need to, yes. I really don't want to dwell on the past -- it's time to be forward thinking and to get excited about the future. That said, you guys need to know that we've learned from our mistakes so some discussion may be appropriate. If we aren't honest and we don't learn from the past, then the past was simply a failure and a defeat. I refuse to look at it that way and we won't be defeated by the mistakes of the past, because we are going to learn from them and do a better job this time. I've learned so much, especially about myself, because of both my successes and my failures.

For me it all came in a frustrating sequence. 9 times out of 10 a person fails, fails, fails, and then succeeds (if he ever succeeds at all). For me it was 1. huge success (half a billion dollars of profit for Sony, etc.), 2. Commercial failure (I say commercial because I still think VG was awesome in many ways and I’m still proud of it)

Anyway, the success first and failure second really jacked with my mind. I became extremely arrogant, thinking whatever I touched would turn into gold. And then when things didn't work out so well on my second try it was really quite a blow to me because I had deluded myself big time. I ended up in a bad place and I never want to be back there again, ever.

But also in learning more about myself over the years, I know this is what I want to do for the rest of my life: make MMOs that I and other gamers want to play. It's just who I am and it's the only thing that professionally makes me happy.

I just don't want to get bogged down in the past too much. If it makes sense to discuss something about the past, then I'll participate. But to be totally upfront and honest, I'm here primarily to promote my new game. It's a blast talking with you all, and I'm here for that as well, but let's spend most of the time here together facing forward. We will need your feedback and opinions in order to insure we make the game you guys want and that I want. It's about community building and being accessible.

Anyways, I hope that makes sense.

-Brad

It could all be hot air, he is trying to sell his game after all, and the temptation to say whatever you think people want to hear must be strong. Ultimately for me it boils down to: does he deserve a second chance. I think he does. I am however going to have to think hard about backing this. Showing support for this project on a forum, and showing support for it by opening up the old wallet are two different things. It will be my first kickstarter if I weigh in.
 

Krassus

Member
Im still holding out hope that we see a game with grouping, pulling, and camps again.

A lot of the same opinions posted on the RR thread are echoed here. Hopefully Brad & team do a better job with the information coming out in the next few days and get this out there more.
 

Mugaaz

Member
I'm the biggest EQ fanboy ever, have 120+ days /played in EQ1. After the Vanguard debacle due to Brad's mismanagement / drug use I don't want to financially support them on the basis of good faith. I'd certainly buy the game retail and would love to play, but I can't send them money blindly without being an idiot. Also, the track record for games centered around 1 huge name that had a massive hit back in the day is just abysmal. I know McQuaid, Garriot, Roper, etc had huge hits back in the day, but the industry today just has nothing in common with the past.
 

TheYanger

Member
I'm the biggest EQ fanboy ever, have 120+ days /played in EQ1. After the Vanguard debacle due to Brad's mismanagement / drug use I don't want to financially support them on the basis of good faith. I'd certainly buy the game retail and would love to play, but I can't send them money blindly without being an idiot. Also, the track record for games centered around 1 huge name that had a massive hit back in the day is just abysmal. I know McQuaid, Garriot, Roper, etc had huge hits back in the day, but the industry today just has nothing in common with the past.

Which is the point really, the industry won't let a game like this exist anymore due to how investors will force it to become more like wow. We've seen it time and again, even Vanguard was basically sent to die, not to say Brad doesn't deserve blame for that at all, he does, but Vanguard did a LOT of things right, and time has only made it more clear that trying to make every MMO 'wow with a twist' is not working out for anyone.

This is a genre that really needs niche products, and to put it bluntly that kind of thing will never happen without financial backers that actually want to see something like that exist :/ It has no potential to be a billion dollar venture, but it certainly can and should be profitable (Look at Eve) and shouldn't have to appease the masses to do it. I feel the same way about Camelot Unchained, it's like two products both targetting different niches that many of us have grown to miss over time.

To be completely fair too, as much as Brad didn't do us right by Vanguard, he confirmed at Rerolled that he was indeed the project Manager on EQ, not just some game dev. And we all know that game was fantastic as hell. 50/50 is better than most in this industry.
 

Slayven

Member
I hope this gets back. Vanguard development was fun to follow. I wonder if he will fire his staff before lunch this time? Last time he did it after,
 

border

Member
Why does anyone believe they can build an MMO for $800,000? And they expect that $800,000 to last them over a 3 year development period? This pitch seems really sketchy and doubtful to me. I'm pretty anxious giving money to anyone that promises a game 12 months from now -- let alone 3 years. That's a lot of time for something to go wrong.

The stretch goals also are a bit dubious. Adding an entirely new class for $200,000? For some reason Ranger, Druid and Bard cost 200K, but they need 300K for a monk?
 

border

Member
My concerns are addressed in the FAQ:

Doesn't it take more than $800k to make an MMO?

Yes it does. Our intent for this Kickstarter is first to prove that there's enough of a demand for a group focused game that believes in the experience of the game instead of handholding, and to get the ball rolling on development. If we can get to the goal we will have proved that and will have enough to get this game started and be able to get our studio set up and operational. If we only get to the goal and little more, then we will visit other funding opportunities but first and foremost we wanted to make it possible to be completely crowdfunded so that you, the players, have more to do with what goes into the game than other powers would should we need to turn to those options later.

So what you are Kickstarting is actually $800,000 not to spend on the game's development, but to "get the game started." Fucking yikes. So basically there is no correlation between actual development costs and what's being promised. So when they promise a new class for an additional $200,000, that means they're bloating up the amount of size and work that has to be done by an amount that is probably way more than $200,000. So for every stretch goal the game passes, the total budget balloons at an even greater rate. This is a recipe for disaster, I'd imagine.
 

ninjarr

Neo Member
The only way this could work is if the target game is a very old-school MMO: simple and niche.

And that's technically what he said he wants to do, so maybe it could happen. Oh, except its Brad McQuaid. Then again, it is Brad McQuaid. Get Jay Barbeau on board and I'll believe.
 
No Brad not even if I could personally fund it and never even notice the money gone.

Not after Vanguard, Im not giving you another cent to fund your drug habit.
 

Apath

Member
No Brad not even if I could personally fund it and never even notice the money gone.

Not after Vanguard, Im not giving you another cent to fund your drug habit.
Exactly. The people who are excited or optimistic for this clearly didn't follow Vanguard before and after launch. The guy is a straight up crook.
 

Iadien

Guarantee I'm going to screw up this post? Yeah.
People have screwed up far more than Brad did, and still manage a second chance. Some people will forgive him, some clearly won't forgive him...
 

DocSeuss

Member
Does anyone else just kinda immediately say "nah" whenever the game in question is an MMO? Like, on greenlight, I just click nope. It's so easy. MMOs are the most expensive games you can possibly make. Their gameplay rarely ends up being more than satisfactory, with the online experience and UI hampering immersion more often than not.

What's up with the people being upset about Vanguard?
 

mavs

Member
Does anyone else just kinda immediately say "nah" whenever the game in question is an MMO? Like, on greenlight, I just click nope. It's so easy. MMOs are the most expensive games you can possibly make. Their gameplay rarely ends up being more than satisfactory, with the online experience and UI hampering immersion more often than not.

What's up with the people being upset about Vanguard?

The game's development went real bad, like almost Amalur bad except they kinda got a game out the door.
 

TheYanger

Member
What people seem to forget is that, a LOT of the stuff in Vanguard was really good though. The classes were excellent, offensive/defensive target still should be stolen wholesale by more games, Diplomacy was neat if unrealized fully, etc. There were a lot of technical problems that really hampered it badly of course. Definitely a very flawed game, but not without a lot of merit in this regard still.
 

border

Member
Does anyone else just kinda immediately say "nah" whenever the game in question is an MMO? Like, on greenlight, I just click nope. It's so easy. MMOs are the most expensive games you can possibly make. Their gameplay rarely ends up being more than satisfactory, with the online experience and UI hampering immersion more often than not.

I don't think there have been many Kickstarter games that weren't at least 3-6 months late, and those weren't even MMOs. I wouldn't automatically say no to a Kickstarter MMO, but for me to say "Yes", the MMO would have to be pretty realistic about its finances and have a pretty small scale, since almost all MMO games run way over budget and arrive way late. If the Pantheon guys were promising 1-3 classes, 1-3 zones, and 1-3 dungeons I wouldn't be as skeptical. Instead they're basically saying "Give us $800,000 to get started, and we'll eventually somehow give you a $20 million dollar game."
 

Eteric Rice

Member
What people seem to forget is that, a LOT of the stuff in Vanguard was really good though. The classes were excellent, offensive/defensive target still should be stolen wholesale by more games, Diplomacy was neat if unrealized fully, etc. There were a lot of technical problems that really hampered it badly of course. Definitely a very flawed game, but not without a lot of merit in this regard still.

Yeah, had it been properly finished, it would have been my MMO of choice these days. The classes were amazing.
 

Purkake4

Banned
Does anyone else just kinda immediately say "nah" whenever the game in question is an MMO? Like, on greenlight, I just click nope. It's so easy. MMOs are the most expensive games you can possibly make. Their gameplay rarely ends up being more than satisfactory, with the online experience and UI hampering immersion more often than not.
Make the server code available and it becomes a bit more interesting, otherwise a giant NOPE.
 

Mugaaz

Member
People have screwed up far more than Brad did, and still manage a second chance. Some people will forgive him, some clearly won't forgive him...

I forgive him, doesn't mean I'd trust him with my money based solely on a promise. I'd buy his next game too. I'm just not interesting in donating money to him.
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
"Rise of the Fallen"?

That's terrible. Game sounds okay, but if that's the level of writing I'll likely be laughing all the way through...
 

Iadien

Guarantee I'm going to screw up this post? Yeah.
"Rise of the Fallen"?

That's terrible. Game sounds okay, but if that's the level of writing I'll likely be laughing all the way through...

The name is cheesy, but there's more to it than that, which is explained in the kickstarter video.
 

Eteric Rice

Member
"Rise of the Fallen"?

That's terrible. Game sounds okay, but if that's the level of writing I'll likely be laughing all the way through...

EverQuest was a cheesy name as well.

I think I'm going to donate to this. EverQuest has left a hole in me since the old days. Granted it used to piss me off (balance issues, etc), it truly was a social MMO that was an actual RPG. Nothing I've played over the years has really come close to filling that hole. It was a harsh world, but the player base was helpful, and very nice compared to what you get today.

This isn't to say WoW wasn't good, but the community in WoW was never nearly as good.

EQ was also a harsh game. Not everyone could raid, so when you saw someone walking around with a particle effect weapon, you knew they'd seen some shit. It made you want to level up and get on their level.

Man, I miss those days,
 
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