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Feep
Second-hand Citizen
(02-27-2014, 08:54 PM)
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Hi! I’m Feep, and yesterday, I went into Valve’s offices in Seattle because we’re like totally bros now. The primary reason for the visit was to try their fancy VR prototype, which will not be for sale anywhere ever for reasons I can only assume involve them already possessing approximately 3% of the national GDP.

I own an Oculus Rift dev kit, and I also did a writeup awhile back on VRCade, one of the first solutions to have positional tracking. I haven’t tried Crystal Cove or Sony’s solution (dear Sony: invite me to try this at GDC so I can write a hype thread for you too), but I hear Crystal Cove is only *slightly* behind Valve’s solution in terms of fidelity.

Technology

Valve’s solution is lightyears ahead of the original Oculus Dev Kit. Resolution, while not at “retina” level perfection, was no longer really a significant issue. The screen door effect was almost completely negligible, thanks to a shiny 1080p display. (Not actually shiny, shiny like in Firefly.)

Just as fantastic was their low-persistance display tech. The display ran at a blistering 95 Hz, and the pixels only flash for approximately 20% of that 10.52 ms refresh time. You don’t notice any flickering or lack of brightness, and the plus side is that ghosting and smearing were drastically reduced. Not *completely* eliminated, mind you.

Latency? Low. Approximately 25ms. Not noticeable.

Positional tracking is an absolute must for any VR set, as lack of said tracking is the biggest cause of motion sickness, the one thing that could kill VR in its tracks. Valve’s solution was, as expected, extremely accurate. It involved sticking QR Code-like papers on the walls (so anyone visiting your home, without prior knowledge, would instantly assume you were a crazy person) so that a camera mounted on the headset could get an optical read on its own position. There was a downside (literally), though…because there were no QR codes littering the floor, looking straight down caused the system to lose its positional tracking.

There was, unfortunately, still a tether attached to the set. This never seems to be talked about with VR, but still concerns me greatly, especially after messing with VRCade’s wireless backpack system. I didn’t feel as free to roam or jump or twist as I did at VRCade, and presumably the wireless transmission back and forth to a base computer would add at least a few milliseconds of latency, but that’s a trade I would gladly make.

Okay? Cool. Now to the fun part.

Demos

Valve ran me through a series of 15 short little demos. None of them were even remotely close to a “game”, and existed mostly as visual experiences. I’ll try to recall as many as I can.

- The first demo stuck me in a simple room, whose walls were textured with financial data for Facebook from some website. An odd choice, yeah. There was a little red cube bouncing around the room, and the desire to avoid it was *extremely strong*. A dodgeball / laser field game immediately popped into my mind, but as I mentioned before, a tether really hurts this type of idea.

I want to point out how strong the positional tracking is, here. *I was moving around and dodging something with absolutely zero issue.* Jumping, ducking, Matrix-dodging, whatever. It’s bizarre how compelling this demo was, as it could be knocked up in Unity in approximately seven minutes.

- Next was the same room, but now I was placed high up on a ledge. This is what Valve likes to call “presence”. I have no fear of heights; I’ve been skydiving, and I have a fairly strong ability to separate reality from unreality, but my body did NOT want to step over that edge. I did it, eventually, it just took me a couple seconds, and it was uncomfortable.

Neat.

- An outdoor environment featuring massive columns, spiraling up into the sky. My first sensation of scale, which I’ll go into a bit more detail later. The room we were in was very reverb-y, so it kind of killed the sense of really being outside. 3-D audio will go a long way for the elusive sensation of “presence”, I think.

- Next were some spheres orbiting each other. Once again I felt the need to dodge the spheres’ movement, which I did, but I thought this demo showed off the pixel clarity of the display: the spheres were extremely anti-aliased, and damn if they didn’t look hyper smooth. Nothing much else.

- Next was a reflective surface showing a hilariously crude version of my head (basically a plank with two spheres for eyes) bobbing about. This demo really made me long for full body tracking, but it’s a tough problem…the Kinect, for instance, doesn’t have anywhere near the latency required. You’d likely have to get special boots and gloves and maybe even a belt, and then use inverse kinematics to determine an approximate body skeleton, but that still wouldn’t be perfect. Valve said they were “working on stuff”.

- Starting to lose track of order…at some point was a room (with some sweet global illumination bakes from Maya) with low-hanging pipes. Moving around the room basically forced me to duck my head under and around the pipes, which was extremely compelling. There was also a glowy pit in the floor and I wanted to lean over and look inside, but the positional tracking break kind of threw me off.

- TRON DEMO. Oh, it’s all I’ve ever wanted. Basically just a glowy grid and a sweet holographic Portal Turret display, but so cool. I was mad they weren’t playing Daft Punk, but I forgave them, because I’m just that kind of guy.

- A scene featuring tons of giant textured cubes, almost like the “behind the scenes” bits of Portal 2, with rainbow lighting fading off into the distance. Kinda neat.

- The next demo was quite interesting…a perfect recreation of the actual room I was in, which let me walk around without having the niggling fear I was about to smash my face into a wall. One of the lamps was “out of sync” with the in-game model, so I physically moved it to match up with the virtual space. You’re welcome, Valve. They then flipped a switch, and only two things changed: the lighting became blue, and the in-scene computer monitor had crazy holographic circles coming out it. Very minority report, but due to lack of hand-tracking, I couldn’t do anything with them.

- Two Portal 2 demonstrations: one featured Atlas, one of the co-op robots from Portal 2, in three different sizes. Directly in front was a human-sized version, then off to the right was a tiny little figure model, and then directly behind me was a five-story tall version. Scale is *extremely impressive* in VR, and apparently several people actually instinctively tried to get out their phones and take a picture. Heh. Not gonna work, nerds. The next was the really cool “turret building” from Portal 2, an extremely intricate animation. It was cool to get up close and really see it from different angles.

- As cool as “big things” are in VR, though, “small things” are equally impressive. Someone had taken the set from the Portal 2 Valentine’s Day advertisement, moving stick figures and all, and placed it down as a miniature model a la Beetlejuice in front of the player. Tiny desks, tiny people, tiny coffee mugs! In a normal game, you could manipulate the camera to get close enough to the tiny coffee mugs so that they appeared to be large, but that simply isn’t possible in VR: you matter how close you got, they were still little tiny coffee mugs, because your perceptions of distance and scale are accurate. It would really be an incredible sensation for any “god game”, towering over and examining your creations from a giant’s throne above. And you know what? The stick figures looked great in 3-D. Really cool.

- Next was something genuinely horrifying: a mechanical moving toddler’s face, complete with gears, sprockets, pistons, servos, everything. I immediately questioned the mental stability of Valve’s modelers, but I soldiered on, getting up close and personal with absolute nightmare fuel. It’s important to note here that whatever the brain uses to ascribe the “this is a real object” tag to things, it isn’t related to textures: every material in the contraption was entirely untextured, only possessing a color and a soft specular highlight, but it sure looked real to me. I called “next” on this one a little quicker than the others.

- Next were three “skybox” scenes, created from the types of 360 degree cameras that Google Street View uses. These were, unfortunately, not stereoscopic, so they weren’t quite as convincing as they could have been. Still, the photorealism was pretty impressive, and it’s obvious how incredible VR “tours” could be in the future. There was a beach scene, St. Peter’s Basilica in the Vatican (which I’ve been to, and the sensation was eerily close to deja-vu), and a jungle somewhere.

- Everything I’ve written down is purely from memory, so I might have forgotten something? I don’t know, I have a pretty strong memory. But the last one was unforgettable: a four-minute, zen-like trip through this very scene, created by some folks in 2010 as a 4k demo. There’s a rocketing forward effect in the beginning that threw me for a loop, and the roller coaster Oculus demo does *nothing* for me. I’ve never done acid, but I imagine it was something like this. Remarkable, special, incredible, pick your adjective, bro. It was kind of like I time-traveled to the past and got on a dinosaur and used it to stomp robot zombies, or something.

We talked for awhile afterward about the future of VR and some specific ideas I had for implementation, but those are going to remain secret, because they are awesome and I might actually end up doing one of them. Will my next title, There Came an Echo support VR? Almost assuredly.

This is an incredible, potentially world-changing technology. There are obstacles to overcome, but many of them have already been conquered. The use cases for these devices are almost literally infinite. This is the future. Tron is the future.

This is where we’re going.

Special thanks to Valve for inviting me in and letting me talk freely about my experiences. Greatly appreciated, guys.

Ctrl-F: Half Life 3
Last edited by Feep; 02-27-2014 at 09:34 PM.
SolsticeZero
Junior Member
(02-27-2014, 08:55 PM)
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Half Life 3 for Valve VR.

BELIEVE
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(02-27-2014, 08:58 PM)
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Fuck this sounds incredible. I need someone to let me try out a VR solution ASAP
Alienous
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(02-27-2014, 08:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by SolsticeZero

Half Life 3 for Valve VR.

BELIEVE

It's the only way they could make a sequel to HL2 that's as revered as that game. They'll probably be the first to make a true, from the ground-up, VR experience with HL3. And people will look back on it as favorably as they do HL2, because of that. They aren't going to top the world immersion HL2 provided with more graphics, but they almost certainly will with well implemented VR.

I just hope it doesn't have "mechanical moving toddler's faces". Ugh.
Jibbed
Member
(02-27-2014, 09:00 PM)
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Sounds good but I get the impression the tech is still very much in it's infancy.
Napalm_Frank
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(02-27-2014, 09:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by SolsticeZero

Half Life 3 for Valve VR.

BELIEVE

I would forgive everything.
StuBurns
Banned
(02-27-2014, 09:02 PM)
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Regarding the cable, Oculus are designing their consumer unit with seated play in mind, so I don't think that's going to be an issue.
Violater
Member
(02-27-2014, 09:03 PM)
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What's the point of developing this if they will never release it?
Team Vernia
(02-27-2014, 09:04 PM)
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Sounds cool, but you may punch me in the face. My wife would go nuts if I ignored her completely while playing video games. I mean... you are literally shutting yourself off from the rest of the world.
Feep
Second-hand Citizen
(02-27-2014, 09:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Violater

What's the point of developing this if they will never release it?

Steam is fully supporting VR as a standard library, and they have a vested interest in making their marketplace the "go to" place for VR experiences. A lot of their work is shared with Oculus, as well.
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(02-27-2014, 09:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Violater

What's the point of developing this if they will never release it?

To show off the potential of VR and what they plan on doing with it. It's a prototype for internal use until a more mature Oculus exists.
Jumpman23
Member
(02-27-2014, 09:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Feep

The primary reason for the visit was to try their fancy VR prototype, which will not be for sale anywhere ever for reasons I can only assume involve them already possessing approximately 3% of the national GDP.

Dear Valve,

Please release this to the masses so that we too can bask in its glory. That is all.

P.S. and dont forget to release Half Life 3 along with it :)

Cheers,
Jumpman23
YuShtink
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(02-27-2014, 09:07 PM)
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Great write-up. Insanely jealous and insanely excited for the near future.
Logical Disconnect
Member
(02-27-2014, 09:08 PM)
Do you know if this was using two screens or just one? It seemed like the prototype at Dev Days was using 2 x 1080p screens, which would explain the reduced screen door effect over Crystal Cove.

Screen door effect is really my big concern - would love to be able to use the Oculus for movies as well as for games and resolution is key for that. Now that the Galaxy S5 isn't using a 1440p display as anticipated, maybe two 1080p screens will be used in the Oculus as well?
mrklaw
MrArseFace
(02-27-2014, 09:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by YuShtink

Great write-up. Insanely jealous and insanely excited for the near future.

I'll just quote this, saves me writing it again.
Violater
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(02-27-2014, 09:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Feep

Steam is fully supporting VR as a standard library, and they have a vested interest in making their marketplace the "go to" place for VR experiences. A lot of their work is shared with Oculus, as well.

Originally Posted by RoboPlato

To show off the potential of VR and what they plan on doing with it. It's a prototype for internal use until a more mature Oculus exists.

Ahh I see, makes more sense now.
syko de4d
Member
(02-27-2014, 09:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Violater

What's the point of developing this if they will never release it?

This way they know better how VR will work in the next years and can implement VR support in Steam, SteamOS, Big Picture and Source 2.0 engine.
GSG Flash
Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
(02-27-2014, 09:10 PM)
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The only thing I don't like about what I read is the QR codes on the wall thing.
Feep
Second-hand Citizen
(02-27-2014, 09:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Logical Disconnect

Do you know if this was using two screens or just one? It seemed like the prototype at Dev Days was using 2 x 1080p screens, which would explain the reduced screen door effect over Crystal Cove.

Screen door effect is really my big concern - would love to be able to use the Oculus for movies as well as for games and resolution is key for that. Now that the Galaxy S5 isn't using a 1440p display as anticipated, maybe two 1080p screens will be used in the Oculus as well?

Not sure, honestly. It seemed like one display, but I could be wrong.

It's important to note that regarding the screen door effect, resolution is important, but so are the "borders" between pixels, how much black exists between one and the next. It was very low.

Edit: Einbroch, Crystal Cove is presumably close to this level. Oculus consumer version is likely releasing in a bit over a year or so.
Last edited by Feep; 02-27-2014 at 09:13 PM.
Einbroch
(02-27-2014, 09:11 PM)
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I mean, I think this stuff is really awesome in theory, but the practical side of me has to shrug my shoulders because this won't will be available to the public for a VERY long time, at least in this specific case.

I bet it's awesome, but I can't get excited for it until there's an actual concrete model being made for me.

Edit: Is Crystal Cove the newest Oculus or something? Or something else? I haven't been keeping up with it.
kittens
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(02-27-2014, 09:11 PM)
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Fantastic write-up, thanks a lot! I can't wait for this tech to grow and stick itself to my face.
StuBurns
Banned
(02-27-2014, 09:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by GSG Flash

The only thing I don't like about what I read is the QR codes on the wall thing.

Valve think a consumer grade product with comparable results will be viable in around two years, including the tracking without QR codes.
Bluekaveli
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(02-27-2014, 09:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Team Vernia

Sounds cool, but you may punch me in the face. My wife would go nuts if I ignored her completely while playing video games. I mean... you are literally shutting yourself off from the rest of the world.

This is exactly what I need in my life right now. Where will GDC be and when?
Dr.Acula
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(02-27-2014, 09:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jibbed

Sounds good but I get the impression the tech is still very much in it's infancy.

I think Virtua Boy and its ilk was the infancy. We're approaching the "iPhone gen 1," of the "VR you'll actually enjoy" stage.

I'm sure the engineers at Valve are really really tired of hearing this, but I'm still betting on the Rift, as I put my faith in Carmack.
mrklaw
MrArseFace
(02-27-2014, 09:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by StuBurns

Valve think a consumer grade product with comparable results will be viable in around two years, including the tracking without QR codes.

Sony had research with richard marks showing augmented reality using no AR cards, but finding elements in the room to lock onto. Something like that could work?
Slixshot
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(02-27-2014, 09:14 PM)
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Yeah, and it will only cost you an arm and a leg!
valkillmore
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(02-27-2014, 09:15 PM)
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I have been SALIVATING for this thread of yours since reading you were working on it. Cant wait to get home from work and read it!!!!
Feep
Second-hand Citizen
(02-27-2014, 09:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Slixshot

Yeah, and it will only cost you an arm and a leg!

Your arm and leg only cost $300? Man, you need to upgrade
Truant
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(02-27-2014, 09:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Feep


- Everything I’ve written down is purely from memory, so I might have forgotten something? I don’t know, I have a pretty strong memory. But the last one was unforgettable: a four-minute, zen-like trip through this very scene, created by some folks in 2010 as a 4k demo. There’s a rocketing forward effect in the beginning that threw me for a loop, and the roller coaster Oculus demo does *nothing* for me. I’ve never done acid, but I imagine it was something like this. Remarkable, special, incredible, pick your adjective, bro. It was kind of like I time-traveled to the past and got on a dinosaur and used it to stomp robot zombies, or something.
]

This video scared me to death right now, watching on a 15" laptop and studio monitors. I can't even begin to imagine how vast and lovecraftian that whole thing must be in VR with a headset. Maybe it¨s just me, but shit like that is terrifying on the deepest level. Cosmic fear.
Pai Pai Master
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(02-27-2014, 09:15 PM)
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You're the man, Feep. Sounds awesome.

I dream of playing FFXIV in VR.
MRORANGE
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(02-27-2014, 09:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Feep


- Next was something genuinely horrifying: a mechanical moving toddler’s face, complete with gears, sprockets, pistons, servos, everything. I immediately questioned the mental stability of Valve’s modelers, but I soldiered on, getting up close and personal with absolute nightmare fuel. It’s important to note here that whatever the brain uses to ascribe the “this is a real object” tag to things, it isn’t related to textures: every material in the contraption was entirely untextured, only possessing a color and a soft specular highlight, but it sure looked real to me. I called “next” on this one a little quicker than the others.


I wanna plat this game.

Fantastic write-up btw Feep.
Slixshot
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(02-27-2014, 09:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Feep

Your arm and leg only cost $300? Man, you need to upgrade

They'd be able to sell that for $300? Hot DAMN!
Dr.Acula
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(02-27-2014, 09:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Team Vernia

Sounds cool, but you may punch me in the face. My wife would go nuts if I ignored her completely while playing video games. I mean... you are literally shutting yourself off from the rest of the world.

People say that, and while that is true in some respects, I often play games without people around. It's pretty common. I don't think that's a make-or-break for this product.
Sephiroth_VII
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(02-27-2014, 09:17 PM)
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I need for Sony's VR to be amazing, and out this year. I'm so looking forward to having this kind of experience on a regular basis.
elite09
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(02-27-2014, 09:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Feep


Positional tracking is an absolute must for any VR set, as lack of said tracking is the biggest cause of motion sickness, the one thing that could kill VR in its tracks. Valve’s solution was, as expected, extremely accurate. It involved sticking QR Code-like papers on the walls (so anyone visiting your home, without prior knowledge, would instantly assume you were a crazy person) so that a camera mounted on the headset could get an optical read on its own position. There was a downside (literally), though…because there were no QR codes littering the floor, looking straight down caused the system to lose its positional tracking.

OneUh8
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(02-27-2014, 09:17 PM)
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Hyped. I do think this is the next big future of gaming.
SummitAve
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(02-27-2014, 09:17 PM)
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How comfortable was it to wear even with the teather?
Feep
Second-hand Citizen
(02-27-2014, 09:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by SummitAve

How comfortable was it to wear even with the teather?

It was a prototype unit (circuit board and wires and everything), so I don't think it was really built for comfort. It wasn't *great*, but it was alright. The Oculus Rift version 1 is a little more comfortable, and I have no problems wearing it for long periods of time.
StuBurns
Banned
(02-27-2014, 09:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by mrklaw

Sony had research with richard marks showing augmented reality using no AR cards, but finding elements in the room to lock onto. Something like that could work?

We might see Sony's VR solution fairly soon, it'll be interesting to see how they deal with the tracking, I was imagining something less fanciful using the PS4 camera, but should be interesting either way.
Logical Disconnect
Member
(02-27-2014, 09:20 PM)

Originally Posted by Feep

Not sure, honestly. It seemed like one display, but I could be wrong.

It's important to note that regarding the screen door effect, resolution is important, but so are the "borders" between pixels, how much black exists between one and the next. It was very low.

Great, thanks. It seems like Crystal Cove was using a 1080p Pentile OLED display so the fill ratio was not that great - there were reports at CES that it seemed worse than the 1080p (RGB) LCD in the earlier HD prototype last year. Maybe Valve's solution is better? Hopefully the consumer Oculus will at least match it. Would be great to get a 'cinema-like' experience without having to invest in a projector / huge TV!
Phinor
Member
(02-27-2014, 09:21 PM)

Originally Posted by Feep

First person to say “I remain unconvinced” is going to get a digital punch in the face. Look, just give a system like this a shot before spiraling into a pit of cynical negativity, because this is an incredible, potentially world-changing technology. There are obstacles to overcome, but many of them have already been conquered. The use cases for these devices are almost literally infinite. This is the future. Tron is the future.

We've been reading about VR for few years and it will probably take 2-3 more years before consumer hardware becomes widely available. All we can do is talk about it, whether being positive or negative, because we are still far away from actually being able to experience it.

Actually, being unconvinced is probably the only reasonable option because either you have bought into something without ever trying it, or you are against something you have never tried.

Other than that, great post/article. We shall be reading many more articles about VR before it actually becomes reality for consumers :)
syko de4d
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(02-27-2014, 09:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Feep

Edit: Einbroch, Crystal Cove is presumably close to this level. Oculus consumer version is likely releasing in a bit over a year or so.

And Oculus already has stuff better than Crystal Cove.

Best Quote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comme...mpulse/cex7a94

Originally Posted by Palmer Luckey

CV1 will meet or exceed the quality of Valve's demo.

Mr.Green
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(02-27-2014, 09:23 PM)
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And apparently the latest prototype from Oculus (post-Crystal Cove) is even better.

Hype is a cruel mistress.

Edit: syko de4d beat me to it. With a link even! Damn you!

Edit 2: Not quite. There's also a tweet somewhere from someone who tried all of them mentioning that the latest Rift prototype blows everything out the water.
Last edited by Mr.Green; 02-27-2014 at 09:27 PM.
Ysiadmihi
Banned
(02-27-2014, 09:23 PM)
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- As cool as “big things” are in VR, though, “small things” are equally impressive. Someone had taken the set from the Portal 2 Valentine’s Day advertisement, moving stick figures and all, and placed it down as a miniature model a la Beetlejuice in front of the player. Tiny desks, tiny people, tiny coffee mugs! In a normal game, you could manipulate the camera to get close enough to the tiny coffee mugs so that they appeared to be large, but that simply isn’t possible in VR: you matter how close you got, they were still little tiny coffee mugs, because your perceptions of distance and scale are accurate. It would really be an incredible sensation for any “god game”, towering over and examining your creations from a giant’s throne above. And you know what? The stick figures looked great in 3-D. Really cool.

It'll be cool to see how strategy games look and feel. Just playing them on a 3D monitor adds a lot to my enjoyment as it is.
Feep
Second-hand Citizen
(02-27-2014, 09:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Phinor

We've been reading about VR for few years and it will probably take 2-3 more years before consumer hardware becomes widely available. All we can do is talk about it, whether being positive or negative, because we are still far away from actually being able to experience it.

Actually, being unconvinced is probably the only reasonable option because either you have bought into something without ever trying it, or you are against something you have never tried.

Other than that, great post/article. We shall be reading many more articles about VR before it actually becomes reality for consumers :)

Fair enough, I edited. = D I just see a ton of irrational negativity in VR threads from people who haven't even tried the Oculus.
Reallink
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(02-27-2014, 09:23 PM)
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Feep does (or did) the DK1 make you sick and how does Valve's compare in that regard?
Einbroch
(02-27-2014, 09:23 PM)
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What's Crystal Cove? I google it and all I get is a bunch of resorts and cabins.
TheRealTalker
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(02-27-2014, 09:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by SolsticeZero

Half Life 3 for Valve VR.

BELIEVE

so Valve's VR is never coming out
Nafai1123
dirty Netflix p00rs!
breathing my air
(02-27-2014, 09:24 PM)
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Well you got me even more hyped for VR feep. Good job making the wait increasingly intolerable.
Mr.Green
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(02-27-2014, 09:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Einbroch

What's Crystal Cove? I google it and all I get is a bunch of resorts and cabins.

The prototype that Oculus VR showed at CES 2014.

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