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What is it about western comics manga readers are turned off by? (& vice-versa)

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P

PsychBat!

Banned
Last Sunday I went to a Barnes and Nobles just to browse some TPB volumes of my favorite comic series like New Avengers or DnA's GotG (I know that it sold out a while ago). Once I finally find a nice comic to read and sit down, I notice a lot of people checking out manga. It's crowded and the people sit down in the aisle making it more crowded. Some people get bored and decide to look around for more manga to read. They go to the next aisle finding themselves face to face with books by Marvel, DC, Image, Dark Horse, BooM!, Dynamite etc etc, looking as if they were lost and wanted to go back to look for more manga.

Sometimes the manga readers would flip through the TPB volumes and close it, scoffing or dismissing the book out of arrogance or ignorance or both. Either way, I could see in their faces that they were not interested in any western comic book that they attempted to read and went back to the manga aisle. I could be reading too much in to it though. I don't know.

What is it about western comics that put off manga readers?
And what is it about manga that turn off comic book readers?

I know that people do not solely read one or the other, there can be fans of both types of comics. So, to those people who do read both types of comics, what is your preference?
 
S

Settin

Member
I just want an engaging read. I've got ghost in the shell next to Watchmen and some Deadpool collections. I buy what interests me, regardless of where it came from.
 
tearsofash

tearsofash

Member
Most of the comics that come my way tend to be superhero/action-oriented stuff. I prefer comedy or slice of life.
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
By western, do you mean american? Because I'm not going to touch superhero comics with nonsense continuity and silly powers that don't acknowledge that they're being silly. I do enjoy reading stuff like Asterix and Lucky Luke and other french/belgian stuff.

I think the only american comic artist I enjoy is Don Rosa.
 
O

OminoMichelin

Member
Western comics try to be all mature through the use of overly serious monologues, even when its the least opportune. Luke in the middle of punching someone.
Mangas do that too, but I usually avoid those as well.
European comics do that a good deal less, I found.
 
Y

YesNOnoNOYes

Member
i like both, but i prefer mangas greatly

more variety in genres, i guess?

and even in the western comics sphere, i prefer the stuff that are not too superhero oriented.




there's also european comics like tin tin and stuffs. i like those, as well. americans doesn't seem to really dig them though, for whatever reasons.
 
A

Abounder

Banned
Generally speaking:

Western comics - old guard, superhero prevalence, gritty/HEAVY METAL/movie concept art style

Manga - younger blood, Japanese culture, cartoon/elegant art style

It's not comics but I've seen this phenomenon in Warhammer 40k shops when the Tau army was introduced in 2001. The Tau are heavily influenced by anime/manga styles, and Warhammer 40k was primarily a Western style, and of course there was a lot of fan clashing feedback that could be seen as bullying against the Tau players. Basically fans will be fans and some will bully eachother like it was a competing tribe
 
A

Aquamarine

Member
Too many muscles, honestly.

I like my characters nice and lean. Not with exaggerated, muscular physiques.


Also, they get too adult-ish. I like stories that are innocent and playful. Western comics get too gritty, and I like to engage in entertainment that's more optimistic.
 
M

MrChom

Member
I read both happily. Preferably ones without multiseries crossovers and backstories where there's not a million books. Planetary for instance is my preference to mainline Batman. Although that said my favourite manga is Ranma 1/2 which is 30+ volumes.
 
P

PastorOfMuppets

Banned
I'll tell you what turns me off Western Comics - and this is coming from someone who primarily reads Western Comics when it comes to comics.

1. Endless reboots and retcons. The worse is when you have a company force a stupid story arc down everyone's throats to explain away a past event. Spider-Man One More Day is probably the worst example of this. DC Comics rebooting it's universe (multiverse) every 2-5 years is another.

2. A character dying might as well mean they're taking a two week vacation to Ft. Lauderdale to get drunk and bang some hot women.

3. Characters are perpetually stuck in the middle part of their story. There is no progression and their origin stories are rebooted. Sometimes they die but see above for death in comics.

4. The only real event that has happened in the last 40 years of super hero comics is that Dick Grayson left Batman's side to become Nightwing. Literally everything else that has happened has been rebooted, retconned or reset via stupid story.

I think the reason why Manga readers don't like American comics though is that because superhero comics dominate the marketplace and they fall into the above tropes, nobody can take it seriously.

Which is a shame because just a bit under the surface, there are much more well done comic book series which are way better than the standard DC/Marvel fair. I liken it to a well done HBO series which tells an overarching story over a set period of seasons (The Wire) vs a mega popular sitcom on network television that is kept on the air until everything becomes old and stale and the characters become caricatures of themselves (Simpsons). If people looked a bit, they find a lot of very well written limited series. Preacher, Transmetropolitan, Watchmen etc.
 
Ð

ЯAW

Banned
Both Shonen manga and Superhero comics are awful. Beyond those two genres I have found stuff I like no matter where it comes from. Good story is a good story.
 
D

Diprosalic

Banned
I used to think that the mainstream american comics are ugly and the superhero continuity is so damn confusing.

I grew up on european comics so i always preferred those.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Something that turns me off from Japanese narratives altogether is some of the female archetypes that show up again and again., which are quite annoying. This is mostly from my experience with Anime, though.

Finaika said:
This too.

Why do superheroes have muscles?
Click to expand...
Because physical superiority is an inherent trait to many of them.
 
M

Mortemis

Banned
Idk, I read much more manga but a lot of the times I find comic art more appealing. I guess I haven't had that one comic that reels me in.

Aquamarine said:
Too many muscles, honestly.

I like my characters nice and lean. Not with exaggerated, muscular physiques.
Click to expand...

Finaika said:
This too.

Why do superheroes have muscles?
Click to expand...

Hey hey hey. Even mangas have muscles, one of my fav mangas is Jojo. Don't hate on muscles. :p
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
After awhile you just get sick of the soap opera that is Marvel and DC.

I remember checking out my favorite comic as a kid (X-Men) and seeing the same 5 fucking characters in the roster. I figured at this point, Generation X or the New Mutants would be the X-Men now. Its like Marvel and DC are too scared to kill characters or bring new characters in. The movie tie-ins make this worse because now you can't remove a character that appears in the movies because the comic company thinks that the movie tickets are going to translate into comic sales.

Manga storylines actually go some place. People die and they don't come back.The story actually progresses and there's an ending in sight. I can see why people prefer that to convoluted storylines that last for 20-40 years.

That said, some of the art in Manga is downright lazy. American comic artists definitely produce more detailed work.
 
A

Aquamarine

Member
Also, I much prefer simple, clean, easily discernable art.

Western comics tend to be much more complex, nuanced, and realistic with characters and backgrounds...which is quite honestly a turnoff.

b34cgD9l.jpg


More realism also ties into "more adult-like" with the stories, which I'm not a fan of.
 
G

Gorillaz

Member
Despite the fact that alot manga have alot of questionable shit, the good apples in the bunch I find to be more broad then just western comics. Nothing against Western ones tho I just don't feel like there is alot of variety especially in design of characters.
 
H

Hyunkel6

Member
I may be wrong about this, but I am under the impression that western comics deal a lot with multiverses and alternate dimensions and whatnot. There are so many versions of Batman, Spiderman and X-Men out there, that it's really intimidating and confusing for someone who just wants to get into the genre.
 
K

KSai

Member
I'm reeling hard from not having a new chapter of All-Rounder Meguru or Teppu to read, so I decided to jump into New 52 from the beginning. Supergirl and Batwoman seem pretty corny with their 'monster of the week,' but I can't stop reading them. I also enjoy Superman and Detective Comics.

I've never been a regular reader of comics, but I've only read capes (and the occasional Aliens or Godzilla book). With some of the previous responses you could probably make a pretty good generalization that the manga crowd isn't interested in superheroes.
 
T

Tyrant Rave

Banned
Marvel/DC aren't the only western comics guys. Image has a lot of great comics from independent creators. There's a lot more to the medium than just superheroes.

I'm a fan of both western comics and manga. It's kind of hard to explain but honestly, the two aren't that different. Superhero books and a lot of battle shonen series have all sorts of crazy fights and world building. Indie comics and seinen series tend to be rather crazy and out there.

I just love comics of all sorts. There is so much good content.
 
MisterHero

MisterHero

Super Member
A hilarious and hypocritical argument tossed back and forth between the two is that their storylines never end. There are manga and comics that have told the same ongoing story for decades. Just like soap operas, etc.

Maybe it's still true for manga which is great for the fans following them for so long. However, the current comics companies just reboot their characters every few years; whether it be the entire universe or individual characters.
 
P

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Hyunkel6 said:
I may be wrong about this, but I am under the impression that western comics deal a lot with multiverses and alternate dimensions and whatnot. There are so many versions of Batman, Spiderman and X-Men out there, that it's really intimidating and confusing for someone who just wants to get into the genre.
Click to expand...

It really isnt as bad as all that. Most stories involving said characters are from one universe. You can usually tell when something is from an alternate universe.

While i enjoy manga, i feel that a lot of manga fall into the same manga tropes, in the same way a lot of capes comics fall into similar tropes.
 
R

Ratrat

Member
I like both. Would I be wrong in assuming there is more manga out there? They have covered every subject imaginable.
 
A

Aquamarine

Member
Ratrat said:
I like both. Would I be wrong in assuming there is more manga out there? They have covered every subject imaginable.
Click to expand...

More physically published manga than physically published comic books? Absolutely.

Manga requires one person. It's much easier to sketch and ink by yourself without having to worrying about the complex processes required to make highly-detailed characters and highly-detailed backgrounds all in full colour.
 
M

MaschinenZimmer

Banned
I love reading Comics from all over the world. My current favorite Series are 'Chew' and 'I am a Hero' but sometimes I buy the odd Marvel/DC thing. Recently I bought the German version of 'Superior Carnage' because why not. Dr. Octopus is now Peter Parker and Carnage got lobotomized... Can you imagine my face when I read that synopsis? Also I read somewhere that Spawn is now white... wut? It's confusing as fuck unless you follow EVERY release or comic news, which is simply very off putting for people who enjoy this kind of stuff just from time to time. Mangas are simply better in this regard.
 
C

Chariot

Member
Goodness, so much predjustice in this thread. I knew that people are easily swayed to put manga down, but comics?

First of all: both are big media with a wide range of genres. Yes, the US-market is dominated by superhero comics, but that doesen't mean that there are no other comics. Plus, what someone already mentioned, the west is far more than america. You should just care too look a bit into comics beyond DC's and Marvel's superhero universes.
 
K

Kitsunebaby

Member
I read both, but the genres and aesthetics I appreciate tend to be more prevalent in manga. Slice of life and romance just aren't that common in western comics compared to manga, but for horror I enjoy both. I also just tend to prefer the way pages are laid out in manga more, as well as preferring black and white over color.
 
D

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Main reason I stopped reading american main stream comics is they never end! It's basically a soap opera with super heroes.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
I like Japanese and non-Japanese comics. Any given country makes mostly garbage, but there are good comics out there if you look for them.
 
G

GAMEPROFF

Banned
MaschinenZimmer said:
I love reading Comics from all over the world. My current favorite Series are 'Chew' and 'I am a Hero' but sometimes I buy the odd Marvel/DC thing. Recently I bought the German version of 'Superior Carnage' because why not. Dr. Octopus is now Peter Parker and Carnage got lobotomized... Can you imagine my face when I read that synopsis? Also I read somewhere that Spawn is now white... wut? It's confusing as fuck unless you follow EVERY release or comic news, which is simply very off putting for people who enjoy this kind of stuff just from time to time. Mangas are simply better in this regard.
Click to expand...

Thats what the internet is for.
Never understood this problem. Look it up on Wikipedia, it takes 5 minutes.


Mangas are simply better in this regard
Click to expand...
So I can start in the middle of, for exemple, Dragon Ball and understand everything?
 
M

Massive Duck. C.M.

Banned
Ratrat said:
Hope I dont get shit for this but, whats so great about it? I read a little and it felt like any other shonen battle manga.
Click to expand...

Probably this

Where people get into Jojo from has a lot to do with whether they like it or not, as the 8 parts are fairly different. Also, Araki's art went from being not very different from most artists at the time he started out to being increasingly more influenced by European, particularly Italian art.
 
Finaika

Finaika

Member
Chariot said:
First of all: both are big media with a wide range of genres. Yes, the US-market is dominated by superhero comics, but that doesen't mean that there are no other comics. Plus, what someone already mentioned, the west is far more than america. You should just care too look a bit into comics beyond DC's and Marvel's superhero universes.
Click to expand...

Its unfair if we're comparing manga from only 1 country (Japan) with the whole Western countries.
 
P

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
GAMEPROFF said:
Thats what the internet is for.
Never understood this problem. Look it up on Wikipedia, it takes 5 minutes.



So I can start in the middle of, for exemple, Dragon Ball and understand everything?
Click to expand...

its something ive noticed with people reluctant to start with western comics. if you take it in the sense that you need to read it all, its heavy, but most comics have short synopsizes in them to help brand new readers
 
S

SkyOdin

Member
I am often turned off of American comics by how quickly they change artists and writers even within a single title. There is no consistency. On top of that you can have five titles covering the same character, all of which vary in art and tone. There are relatively few cases of one author and one writer having consistent control over a story for years at a time these days in mainstream American comics.

In a related issue, it is also hard to know where to start. If you are interested in a mange series, you can just start with the first volume of the series and read it in order until you reach the end. For American comicbooks, there aren't really start points or endpoints, just various disconnected runs and story-arcs to try and piece together.

Combining these two points, a lot of popular American comics lack a coherent form. A series like Batman isn't really one story, it is a huge amalgam of hundreds of completely different stories and even characters all mashed together. It is a lot harder to really get into. In comparison I am a huge fan of stuff like Bruce Timm's DCAU, since that dodges all of those problems. I actually like superhero stuff. But I can't get past the chaotic jumble of actually trying to figure out what to actually read.
 
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