• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Polygon: Riot Games isn't worried about Valve's $10M Dota 2 prize pool, here's why

A

ashecitism

Member
Polygon's been on a Riot/LoL streak, this is their most recent article:

http://www.polygon.com/2014/8/18/60...f-legends-valve-dota-prize-pool-international

Riot Games has no plans to match the latest prize pool offered in Dota 2's The International, head of EU eSports Jason Yeh told Polygon.

The company's decision to continue offering a comparatively smaller prize pool of roughly $2 million each year is in part a way to future proof the professional gaming branch of League of Legends, says Yeh.
Click to expand...

Riot aims to emulate real-world sports events by eventually producing large-scale pro-gaming events on a weekly, not yearly, basis.
Click to expand...

Likewise, a Riot representative tells Polygon the company is not interested in maintaining a large annual prize pool by "begging" its community for an aspect of the game that it has taken responsibility for.
Click to expand...

Comparatively, Riot hopes to avoid the possible long-term issues that a crowdfunded prize pool could produce, we're told. According to Yeh, this method potentially sets a company up for having a year with less money than the previous year, which by all accounts would be a "disaster."
Click to expand...
 
B

bigkrev

Member
Comparatively, Riot hopes to avoid the possible long-term issues that a crowdfunded prize pool could produce, we're told. According to Yeh, this method potentially sets a company up for having a year with less money than the previous year, which by all accounts would be a "disaster."
Click to expand...

That is literally the only reason you need to give.
 
V

Vast.

Banned
It's a fair point. Is Valve going to crowd source the prize pool every year? Because if not then this was a one time deal for them anyway. And if they are then people are gonna get tired of that shit pretty quickly.
Grakl said:
Yep, that's PR speak.
Click to expand...
If you couldn't read the points made in this "PR speak", then that's on you.
 
T

tbm24

Member
bigkrev said:
That is literally the only reason you need to give.
Click to expand...

Not sure how it would be a disaster if TI5 had a smaller prize pool than TI4. It is crowdsourced so no one can point to it and claim it is unfair on behalf of Valve for not fronting up all the money.
 
L

lightning2k3

Member
Vast. said:
It's a fair point. Is Valve going to crowd source the prize pool every year? Because if not then this was a one time deal for them anyway. And if they are then people are gonna get tired of that shit pretty quickly.
Click to expand...

Valve has crowd sourced 2 tournaments so far. I actually think they were too successful at monetization this year with the compendium and compendium points, and they will have trouble next year sustaining the prize pool unless they see some ridiculous growth in the player base.
 
Z

z0m3le

Banned
I imagine AD revenue and sponsors will need to be added, but at some point they just need to go with a cap and then possibly create a league if enough money comes into play, something more like you'd find in traditional sports with the playoff seasons being what we have... Something like a 64 team league with 32+ seeded teams (from the previous year) and a preseason where the remaining teams fight it out to play in the "professional" season.

Obviously there is enough attention to the sport for something like this to happen, being able to broadcast it inside the game would also make it very interesting, but all of this is years away and they could go an entirely other direction. LoL not doing this now, could hurt them big time in the end but then Dota's open roaster and non custom enhancements, is better for a professional competitive scene that I am describing above. (IMO)
 
B

Balb

Member
Prize pools are overrated. They tend to overshadow the events themselves. There's a reason why nobody knows or cares about how much Super Bowl champions earn for winning.
 
B

bloodyroarxx

Member
Balb said:
Prize pools are overrated. They tend to overshadow the events themselves. There's a reason why nobody knows or cares about how much Super Bowl champions earn for winning.
Click to expand...

Because those players are already making good money,

Esports teams aren't making millions of dollars per year.
 
B

bigkrev

Member
tbm24 said:
Not sure how it would be a disaster if TI5 had a smaller prize pool than TI4. It is crowdsourced so no one can point to it and claim it is unfair on behalf of Valve for not fronting up all the money.
Click to expand...

It shows that your product is loosing popularity in a very binary form. Any business ever tries to hide it's losses.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
For what it's worth, the WSOP Main Event prize pool has gone down since the recession, and I don't think anyone really cares.
 
X

xValentine

Member
Firemind said:
So LoL isn't DotA? I don't understand.
Click to expand...


Warcraft 3 TFT:
-->Dota All-Stars (DotA 1) -Custom map of War3
---->League of Legends (LoL) - new game with dota mechanics / dev
---->Heroes of Newerth (HoN) - new game with dota mechanics / dev
---->Dota 2 - new game with dota mechanics / dev
---->Heroes of the Storm (Blizzard All-Stars) - new game with dota mechanics
 
I

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
Company thinks their strategy is better than rivals, shocking news.
Vast. said:
It's a fair point. Is Valve going to crowd source the prize pool every year? Because if not then this was a one time deal for them anyway. And if they are then people are gonna get tired of that shit pretty quickly.
Click to expand...

They will, and people won't. The compendium was pretty good value for $10.
 
SerTapTap

SerTapTap

Member
Just have to say I hate this clickbait headline style. "Riot Games not concerned about Valve's $10m DOTA2 prize pool" is exactly as informative and leaves just as much info behind the headline without the stupid "AND YOU WON'T BELIEVE THE REASON WHY" garbage at the end.
 
E

Einbroch

Banned
Two different companies taking two different approaches to the eSport scene.

We'll see which way wins.

My guess? They'll both have positives and negatives and settle somewhere in the middle.
 
A

Alavard

Member
Ikuu said:
Company thinks their strategy is better than rivals, shocking news.


They will, and people won't. The compendium was pretty good value for $10.
Click to expand...

I guess the question then becomes whether it will always be a good value. Valve had to put a fair bit of work into some of the stretch goals, after all.
 
Beelzebubs

Beelzebubs

Member
Really like the current LoL model. I watch both EU and NA LCS every week they're on. Well produced, great commentary and it's on all the time. DoTA2 doesn't really do anywhere near as much to make it as close to a real televised sport as possible.

Because I watch the LoL games every week, I'm more invested the teams playing which makes it a much better experience due to the personalities on show, the injokes from community and even the casters themselves.

I really do sound like a LoL fanboy, I just enjoy how they present it by making it fun and interesting to watch.
 
K

Kinthalis

Banned
Balb said:
LoL LCS players make good salaries too.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I believe most of the money for these teams come from corporate sponsorships, with the exception of a big payout like the International, of course, but that's just going to be a handful of teams.
 
L

lightning2k3

Member
Ikuu said:
Company thinks their strategy is better than rivals, shocking news.


They will, and people won't. The compendium was pretty good value for $10.
Click to expand...

I love Valve's crowd funding model, and I don't think people will ever get tired of compendiums, but I think that maybe valve did too well this year monetizing their user base. It will be really hard for valve to get more money out of people next year. I think a better systems would be to cap the prize pool at lets say 10 million and all the excess money can be added to next year's pool. That way we don't set up unrealistic expectations of huge prize pools and suffer the inevitable backlash when one TI the prizepool fails to exceed the previous one.
 
K

Kunan

Member
The only thing I don't particularly like about the compendiums is Valve's huge cut, and the announcement of stretch goals after. The stretch goals were tracking only 25% of the compendium's monetary value since that's all that goes to the prize pool, were they not? So they push the aspect of comraderie in purchasing the compendiums while they watch the dollar signs roll up. They were paid to run it and offloaded responsibility for the tournament onto the playerbase.

Of course there's nothing really wrong with wanting to profit off of the event. I do like Riot's stance on maintaining responsibility. Not sure I agree with the word begging though.
 
T

Tagyhag

Member
Vast. said:
It's a fair point. Is Valve going to crowd source the prize pool every year? Because if not then this was a one time deal for them anyway. And if they are then people are gonna get tired of that shit pretty quickly.
Click to expand...

I don't see why not, the community is insanely strong, and Valve always offers so much more than what they ask for.

Not to mention, it's just an annual thing. Just to buy one tier 3 champ in LoL already comes close to $8 of RP doesn't it?
 
S

Shorty11857

Member
bigkrev said:
It shows that your product is loosing popularity in a very binary form. Any business ever tries to hide it's losses.
Click to expand...

To be fair they already show the number of concurrent players on Steam for everybody to see and the total number of players in the last month on the website and in game

If Dota starts to lose popularity they're going to have a hard time hiding it regardless of TI5's prizepool
 
I

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
Beelzebubs said:
DoTA2 doesn't really do anywhere near as much to make it as close to a real sport as possible.
Click to expand...

Don't see why this is necessarily a negative, I have real sports to watch I don't need my D I G I T A L S P O R T S to be the same.
 
B

Balb

Member
Kinthalis said:
Yeah, I believe most of the money for these teams come from corporate sponsorships, with the exception of a big payout like the International, of course, but that's just going to be a handful of teams.
Click to expand...

Yeah I totally get why Valve does a prize pool for Dota 2. I'm just saying if I had a choice between Riot's system and Valve's system I would choose Riot's. it only works because Riot dumps a ton of money into their eSports scene though so I understand why it's hard to follow their model.
 
O

Odrion

Banned
Likewise, a Riot representative tells Polygon the company is not interested in maintaining a large annual prize pool by "begging" its community for an aspect of the game that it has taken responsibility for.
Click to expand...
Oh damn.
 
D

danmaku

Member
The only thing Valve should be worried about is having another final as boring as the last one. But to be fair, it also happens in real sports.
 
Beelzebubs

Beelzebubs

Member
Ikuu said:
Don't see why this is necessarily a negative, I have real sports to watch I don't need my D I G I T A L S P O R T S to be the same.
Click to expand...

Because you have no connection to the teams/personalities. It's really hard to get invested in the DoTA2 model, I have my favourites and least favourites in LoL because of the way it's presented. When I watch DoTA it's just feels more shallow to me. No real investment in any of the teams.
 
D

Doctoglethorpe

Member
I don't see how it would be a "disaster" to have less money one year. I don't think any of the actual players will be complaining about potentially making 900k per instead of a million. Not seriously at least. The chances of it dropping significantly enough to be an issue, as in like by half, is next to nil. At least as long as the quality of the show continues to increase and the game itself stays popular.
 
Druz

Druz

Member
ashecitism said:
Likewise, a Riot representative tells Polygon the company is not interested in maintaining a large annual prize pool by "begging" its community for an aspect of the game that it has taken responsibility for.]
Click to expand...


Hilarity. Riot charges for heroes, the end.
 
P

Pureauthor

Member
Beelzebubs said:
Because you have no connection to the teams/personalities. It's really hard to get invested in the DoTA2 model, I have my favourites and least favourites in LoL because of the way it's presented. When I watch DoTA it's just feels more shallow to me. No real investment in any of the teams.
Click to expand...

What about LCS makes it so that it's easier to get invested in a team than Dota's 'everyone can hold a tournament' model?
 
E

Einbroch

Banned
Beelzebubs said:
Because you have no connection to the teams/personalities. It's really hard to get invested, I have my favourites and least favourites because of the way it's presented. When I watch DoTA it's just feels more shallow to me. No real investment in any of the teams.
Click to expand...

This I don't get.

I can name 10+ Dota 2 players and I don't really even play the game. I can name 10+ League players as well.

If you don't know about the players, you're just not following the scene. It has nothing to do with the way the "scene" is set up for each game.
 
I

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
Beelzebubs said:
Because you have no connection to the teams/personalities. It's really hard to get invested in the DoTA2 model, I have my favourites and least favourites in LoL because of the way it's presented. When I watch DoTA it's just feels more shallow to me. No real investment in any of the teams.
Click to expand...

Nope, don't feel that at all.
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
The company's decision to continue offering a comparatively smaller prize pool of roughly $2 million each year is in part a way to future proof the professional gaming branch of League of Legends, says Yeh.
Click to expand...
That's actually more money than Valve provides every year.


Beelzebubs said:
Because you have no connection to the teams/personalities. It's really hard to get invested in the DoTA2 model, I have my favourites and least favourites in LoL because of the way it's presented. When I watch DoTA it's just feels more shallow to me. No real investment in any of the teams.
Click to expand...
That's weird, I don't feel like that at all.

It's just as easy to follow players and teams through a tournament circuit than it is to follow them through a league (on the upside, it is much more varied and interesting, though).
 
A

Aaron

Member
He has a point. Does anyone really care if Newbie won a million or five million dollars? Wouldn't it be better to have more frequent events than waiting a year for the next one? Shouldn't Valve just give up on Dota 2, and back Counterstrike: GO instead?
 
D

dave is ok

aztek is ok
Beelzebubs said:
Because you have no connection to the teams/personalities. It's really hard to get invested in the DoTA2 model, I have my favourites and least favourites in LoL because of the way it's presented. When I watch DoTA it's just feels more shallow to me. No real investment in any of the teams.
Click to expand...
That's how every American feels when watching soccer.

It has nothing to do with the games, you just have a clear preference. There are people who also have favorites and least favorites in Dota.
 
I

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
Aaron said:
He has a point. Does anyone really care if Newbie won a million or five million dollars? Wouldn't it be better to have more frequent events than waiting a year for the next one? Shouldn't Valve just give up on Dota 2, and back Counterstrike: GO instead?
Click to expand...

It makes it a huge event and a spectacle, why not have the World Cup every year?
 
Beelzebubs

Beelzebubs

Member
Pureauthor said:
What about LCS makes it so that it's easier to get invested in a team than Dota's 'everyone can hold a tournament' model?
Click to expand...

Because there's more consistency in the teams, the production, the interviews, the highlights pretty much the way it's structured. All of this and they are done much more regularly than the official DoTA2 tournaments.

It's all personal preference. I just prefer to watch LoL because it feels more personal.
 
S

Shorty11857

Member
Ikuu said:
It makes it a huge event and a spectacle, why not have the World Cup every year?
Click to expand...

Plus I don't think Valve want to organise multiple events, although they could do it similar to CS GO and give different organisers money, like giving some of the TI prizepool to Dreamhack, Starladder etc but then you make it harder for other tournaments to compete so I don't think they want that either
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
Kunan said:
But did they really provide it this year? Considering the profit off of compendiums?

Valve absolutely went ham previously, can't deny that.
Click to expand...
Valve has provided the same base prize pool of 1.6 million dollars every year since 2011.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Polygon: Video game company layoffs are creating an industry crisis
Social Opinion 2
57
6K
semiconscious replied
[Jez Corden] If Microsoft really IS bringing Steam, Epic Game Store, etc. to Xbox consoles, it needs to answer these big questions
2 3 4
155
8K
sachos replied
The Game Awards 2023 Nominees will be announced on November 13th
2 3 4 5 6
258
13K
Pelta88 replied
  • Poll
Rate The Game Awards 2023
News 2 3
107
6K
Shakka43 replied
Phil Spencer interview - Says that their intent is for all Xbox games, including Call of Duty, to be available on Xbox Game Pass Day One
2 3
102
7K
Kenneth Haight replied
Top Bottom