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SolVanderlyn · Feb 16, 2015

Edit: Thread title should read "more western", oops. Now the defensiveness in this thread is making more sense.

I made a thread a while back about the differing styles of game music. I've come to wonder - why don't more western games have music in the purest sense of the term? The tracks you find in Japanese games can sometimes clearly be defined as instrumental versions of musical genres:

MMZX - Last Area

Mega Man X6 - Infinity Mijinion

Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow - Condemned Tower

Chaos Legion - Feel no Fear

Chrono Trigger - Undersea Palace

These all seem to function as "music" on their own, rather than as an accompanying score for a particular area or event. The two most glaring exceptions in the western gaming scene I can think of are the Donkey Kong Country series and Metroid Prime, with the Prime series actually finding a way to marry the ambient with the melodic, but these are both western takes on Japanese franchises.

This isn't to say that melodic music doesn't exist in any western games - it certainly does - just that it is far, far more rare than it is in Japanese games. Personally, I feel as if the western gaming scene could benefit greatly from having more distinct musical scores. The music in many Japanese games has become symbolic of its respective franchise, whereas western games tend to have it more as background than as a distinctive feature. I'm not saying that ambient music along the lines of The Streets of Whiterun is bad and should be replaced, but it doesn't have the same captive influence that more melodic music does, and it's a wonder more western games don't go for the melodic approach.

epmode · Feb 16, 2015

You're playing far too many "cinematic" AAA games if you feel this way. They tend to go for more ambient music.

There's all sorts of incredible stuff once you start looking elsewhere.

Kyzon · Feb 16, 2015

Indie games do it well and often

Icyflamez96 · Feb 16, 2015

The PS2 Ratchet and Clank games are pretty melodic for the most part, although it's a good mix.

There is great stuff of all categories though. Deus Ex HR has a largely ambient soundtrack and it's amazing to listen to.

UnrealEck · Feb 16, 2015

Yeah it depends on the game. Open world RPGs and MMOs for example tend to have really long ambient music that's broken up into numerous segments and has little sort of themes that kick in and out. It suits the gameplay.

Pandy · Feb 16, 2015

Look up Chris Heulsbeck.

You're welcome.

televator · Feb 16, 2015

I like both. I'd hate for all games to be the same style.

Zen_Arcade · Feb 16, 2015

epmode said:
You're playing far too many "cinematic" AAA games if you feel this way. They tend to go for more ambient music.

There's all sorts of incredible stuff once you start looking elsewhere.

This is the answer OP.

PooBone · Feb 16, 2015

Halo says hello.

ricki42 · Feb 16, 2015

Icyflamez96 said:
There is great stuff of all categories though. Dues Ex HR has a largely ambient soundtrack and it's amazing to listen to.

Came to post this (except Deus rather than Dues

), love the soundtrack.
I also quite enjoy the Mass Effect soundtracks.

Icyflamez96 · Feb 16, 2015

ricki42 said:
Came to post this (except Deus rather than Dues ), love the soundtrack.
I also quite enjoy the Mass Effect soundtracks.

Oh i'm dumb

Tal Shiar Agent · Feb 16, 2015

Killzone and Uncharted have music in the way you've described OP.

KingFire · Feb 16, 2015

The view of music is different. In western games, music is typically viewed as an enhancer of the experience. A lot of composers go for the atmospheric route because they do not want you to even pay attention to the score. It is there to enhance your feelings of the situation.

For some studios, music is a character. It is something that must be as forceful as your game characters. The music must not only enhance your experience, but also must stay with you even after playing the game.

In the past developers, had to use melodic tracks as they lacked the technical capacity of doing atmospheric non-melodic music. David Wise talks about his track for Wizards and Warriors for NES. He wanted to use vertical harmony (aka chords) but the system doesn't allow him. So he ended up writing it in a broken chord arrangement at high tempo, giving his composition a baroque texture which is highly melodic.

Some people say that melodic is just more difficult to perfect. You need great knowledge of counterpoint and creative melodies to come up with a great score. Ask any composer and they will tell you that counterpoint can be hellish despite being really fun to tackle.

BLunted · Feb 16, 2015

I don't know, but all the examples you provided are what I would consider as "cheesy video game music" and would definitely put me off playing a game.

Just different tastes for different folks I suppose. If you like that stuff, then more power to ya

injurai · Feb 16, 2015

Halo?
Uncharted?
God of War?
Ratchet & Clank?
The Elder Scrolls?
Red Dead Redemption?
Secret of Monkey Island?
Civilization?
World of Warcraft?
Splinter Cell?

entremet · Feb 16, 2015

Influence from film making, where music sets the tone.

Indie games are a bit more gamey in terms of their music.

K.Sabot · Feb 16, 2015

Sure Western Music can be really boring most of the time, but there are some exceptions 2 biggest being Darren Korb and Austin Wintory.

I'm a really big fan of Oscar Araujo's Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 1 and 2 OSTs. They kinda bridge the gap between the AAA ambient / boring orchestral score with more melodic sensibilities. Probably the only soundtrack of its kind that actually stood out to me during the game.

Nirolak · Feb 16, 2015

entrement said:
Influence from film making, where music sets the tone.

Indie games are a bit more gamey in terms of their music.

Yes, especially for AAA.

In indie games by contrast, the music is usually one of the centerpieces.

There was a time this was actually popular in film making and television as well. If you go watch 80's or earlier movies/TV shows you'll often see music in starring roles while things happen.

For good modern indie examples I'd point to things like Hotline: Miami, Monaco, and Risk of Rain where music is in an exceptionally present role.

El Jaffe · Feb 16, 2015

Wow, I never realized how beautiful the Whiterun song in Skyrim was.

sploatee · Feb 16, 2015

Pandy said:
Look up Chris Heulsbeck.

You're welcome.

Hurray for your post!

Shovel Knight and Fez have two of the best soundtracks I've ever heard.

Flower has a great soundtrack too but it's perhaps a bit more Steve Reich-y than straight-up melodic.

The Last of Us has a gorgeous main theme, it's appropriately melancholic and cinematic.

You could probably also go back through any number of c64 games and find beautiful chip tune stuff.

So in short I'm not sure I agree with you, although I do love melodic themes in games - so am grateful to you for posting those links!

That Dude John · Feb 16, 2015

OP name dropped Chaos Legion.

I like this human. He understands.

TheRedSnifit · Feb 16, 2015

The music I listen to outside of gaming tends to be expiremental "atmospheric" music, so I'm perfectly fine with this being a trend in Western games. I'd sooner listen to Fallout's ambience-oriented soundtrack (in fact, I have this on my iPod right now) than most of the stuff in your OP.

BocoDragon · Feb 16, 2015

Hollywood envy.

Plus Japanese game music evolved from early console music which favoured simplistic tunes, an area where American development was kind of rare (give a shoutout to Europeans and their microcomputer chiptunes though)

phanphare · Feb 16, 2015

DKC: Tropical Freeze is a Western game

edit: d'oh

jtb · Feb 16, 2015

Hans Zimmer.

it all comes back to this overrated fucking hack who has ruined Hollywood and now AAA developers look upon that garbage with envy

SolVanderlyn · Feb 16, 2015

injurai said:
Halo?
Uncharted?
God of War?
Ratchet & Clank?
The Elder Scrolls?
Red Dead Redemption?
Secret of Monkey Island?
Civilization?
World of Warcraft?
Splinter Cell?

PooBone said:
Halo says hello.

Halo is right there in the OP, look harder.

Ratchet is definitely a good example of a melodic western franchise. I feel as if WoW, Civ, Elder Scrolls, Splinter Cell, and most of the rest of those tend to fall more in the ambient category. Again, I reiterate that ambient does not = bad.

phanphare said:
DKC: Tropical Freeze is a Western game

Also in the OP.

KingFire said:
The view of music is different. In western games, music is typically viewed as an enhancer of the experience. A lot of composers go for the atmospheric route because they do not want you to even pay attention to the score. It is there to enhance your feelings of the situation.

For some studios, music is a character. It is something that must be as forceful as your game characters. The music must not only enhance your experience, but also must stay with you even after playing the game.

In the past developers, had to use melodic tracks as they lacked the technical capacity of doing atmospheric non-melodic music. David Wise talks about his track for Wizards and Warriors for NES. He wanted to use vertical harmony (aka chords) but the system doesn't allow him. So he ended up writing it in a broken chord arrangement at high tempo, giving his composition a baroque texture which is highly melodic.

Some people say that melodic is just more difficult to perfect. You need great knowledge of counterpoint and creative melodies to come up with a great score. Ask any composer and they will tell you that counterpoint can be hellish despite being really fun to tackle.

This is some nice insight. I guess when you think about it, atmospheric music wasn't really possible until later on in the video game world.

BLunted said:
I don't know, but all the examples you provided are what I would consider as "cheesy video game music" and would definitely put me off playing a game.

Just different tastes for different folks I suppose. If you like that stuff, then more power to ya

Different tastes, indeed. The music you describe as "cheesy" is one of the biggest draws of those games for me. To each his own.

Freedom = $1.05 · Feb 16, 2015

My girlfriend never plays games yet she couldn't shake the music from spelunky out of her head for a week.

Stereogatari · Feb 16, 2015

Fez OST is very Japanese-like to me. Give that a listen (and play).

entremet · Feb 16, 2015

Nirolak said:
Yes, especially for AAA.

In indie games by contrast, the music is usually one of the centerpieces.

There was a time this was actually popular in film making and television as well. If you go watch 80's or earlier movies/TV shows you'll often see music in starring roles while things happen.

For good modern indie examples I'd point to things like Hotline: Miami, Monaco, and Risk of Rain where music is in an exceptionally present role.

Yep. The Rocky films are a good example of this.

Iksenpets · Feb 16, 2015

Western media in general is in a trend of pretty minimalist soundtracks right now. Much more focus on ambient atmosphere than on melody. It's just part of the overall trend towards realism in Western stuff. It'll probably cycle back around at some point in the future.

Atomski · Feb 16, 2015

Just sounds like you are ignoring Indies. So much damn good music from them.

Dustforce

Hotline Miami

Super Meat Boy

Luftrausers

and so much more.. hell the music is keeps me coming back they are so good.

Mikel1015 · Feb 16, 2015

Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze had the best OST last year, thank you

Sagely · Feb 16, 2015

I love an ambient soundtrack, but there's plenty of melodic stuff out there too. The first thing that springs to mind is Bully (one of my all-time favourite game OSTs) but as others have said there's some great material to be found in indie games. I enjoy the soundtrack to Towerfall Ascension more than I enjoy the game itself!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTIbBpxHHCM

Super gamey.

Battlechili · Feb 16, 2015

Perhaps Western developers are less willing to take risks or different countries developed different musical styles and now its hard to break form.
Western indie games still have plenty of great melodic music though. Just look at Freedom Planet or Skullgirls. Great stuff.

volcarona · Feb 16, 2015

Toy story 2 also had amazing melodic music in most levels (one or two of the levels had ambient music)

DiipuSurotu · Feb 16, 2015

The topic is backwards. Western games have both ambient music (generally in AAA titles) and melodic music (generally in indie titles). Japanese games on the other hand very rarely use ambient music. Thread should be about the lack of ambient music in Japanese games, not the so-called lack of melodic music in Western games.

K.Sabot · Feb 16, 2015

SolVanderlyn said:
Halo is right there in the OP, look harder.

Ratchet is definitely a good example of a melodic western franchise. I feel as if WoW, Civ, Elder Scrolls, Splinter Cell, and most of the rest of those tend to fall more in the ambient category. Again, I reiterate that ambient does not = bad.

There is one exception to the Splinter Cell osts and that is Chaos Theory(one of the greatest OSTs of all time) but if you played that game perfectly you'd barely ever hear it.

Game4life · Feb 16, 2015

I prefer Western Music to the music found in Japanese Games.

DiipuSurotu said:
The topic is backwards. Western games have both ambient music (generally in AAA titles) and melodic music (generally in indie titles). Japanese games on the other hand very rarely use ambient music. Thread should be about the lack of ambient music in Japanese games, not the so-called lack of melodic music in Western games.

Also this.

Rich! · Feb 16, 2015

OP needs to play Shovel Knight

CaptNink · Feb 16, 2015

DiipuSurotu said:
The topic is backwards. Western games have both ambient music (generally in AAA titles) and melodic music (generally in indie titles). Japanese games on the other hand very rarely use ambient music. Thread should be about the lack of ambient music in Japanese games, not the so-called lack of melodic music in Western games.

Totally agree with this.

SolVanderlyn · Feb 16, 2015

DiipuSurotu said:
The topic is backwards. Western games have both ambient music (generally in AAA titles) and melodic music (generally in indie titles). Japanese games on the other hand very rarely use ambient music. Thread should be about the lack of ambient music in Japanese games, not the so-called lack of melodic music in Western games.

Yeah, I guess this is true. I tend to avoid indie games, for the most part, so this topic has been a welcome surprise.

I do still stand by my statement that I wish melodic music was more prevalent, however.

BocoDragon said:
I feel like naming western indie games harkening back to 8/16-bit eras is dodging the question.

This too.

BouncyFrag · Feb 16, 2015

Soundtrack threads are odd on GAF as they are often built on an incorrect premise. Western games are chock-full of melodic music.

BocoDragon · Feb 16, 2015

I feel like naming western indie games harkening back to 8/16-bit eras is dodging the question.

DMiz · Feb 16, 2015

Something else along this line of thinking that has always got me wondering is why there never seems to be as much music in Western games compared to Japanese games. Quantity, specifically, as opposed to quality.

I mean, the argument that it's more about quality over quantity is certainly valid; but considering how every Final Fantasy has had 4 CD's worth of music since FFVIII compared to the one disc that all of Skyrim's soundtrack fits on, it just seems strange.

kpaadet · Feb 16, 2015

BocoDragon said:
I feel like naming western indie games harkening back to 8/16-bit eras is dodging the question.

Yet most of the examples of japanese games used in OP are fairly old.

TheJollyCorner · Feb 16, 2015

Atomski said:
Just sounds like you are ignoring Indies. So much damn good music from them.

Dustforce

Wow. I really like this track.
I'll have to check Dustforce out now.

evilromero · Feb 16, 2015

I get the sense that this is a thinly veiled stab at western video game music. I'm at a loss at how stuff like Pilotwings 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Kameo, Age of Empires 3 and Castlevania LoS are not considered "melodic" in your book.

Red Blaster · Feb 16, 2015

that dawn of sorrow song sounds like something out of a spanish telenovela

SolVanderlyn · Feb 16, 2015

evilromero said:
I get the sense that this is a thinly veiled stab at western video game music. I'm at a loss at how stuff like Pilotwings 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Kameo, Age of Empires 3 and Castlevania LoS are not considered "melodic" in your book.

Not at all, and I love ambient music, too. I listen to the LoS soundtrack on a regular basis, along with Skyrim, World of Warcraft, and other more ambient OSTs. Shadow of the Colossus is also a Japanese game that has great music that tends to lean towards the ambient. The question is more about the prevalence of melodic music in Japanese games, its comparative rarity in (non-indie) western games.

BocoDragon · Feb 16, 2015

kpaadet said:
Yet most of the examples of japanese games used in OP are fairly old.

That's a good point.

But I think there is an argument to be made that Japan kept the model of prominent, melodic game music in the more recent 3D eras - and not in retro throwback games. While western music is generally more like film score, unless we're talking especially about retro-inspired indie games.

There's probably a point to be made about Japanese games being like interactive anime, and Western games being like interactive Hollywood.

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