SneakyStephan
Banned
Tell us what we need to do to become a real dark souls fan, sanctuary
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Dark Souls II - First review
- Thread starter Sn4ke_911
- Start date
Tell us what we need to do to become a real dark souls fan, sanctuary
Sanctuary
Member
You'd think nobody was able to finish Dark Souls during the first week prior to anything being up online. You didn't need to "Wiki crawl" to finish the game at all, and if you had any experience at all with Demon's, you already knew the basics of the game anyway.
Planning out a character wasn't hard, and the only thing someone wouldn't really know about out of the gates would be the soft cap on endurance. Screwing up a character was a part of the process anyway, and it also led to replay value, unless you only felt the urge to play it once and then shelve it.
Respeccing only started becoming common after World of Warcraft. It used to be essentially non existent, yet with how accustomed people have become with the convenience of no consequences, you'd think there was never a time where it didn't exist. Convenience of no consequence was never what the Souls games were about, and part of the reason why people heralded them as a proper return to form.
The comment about respeccing just comes off like someone who doesn't really want a challenge, but just had to play the most fashionable game at the time, because Dark Souls is hard. Everyone is talking about it, so it must be the best thing ever!
Of course. Right now all me and others are doing is voicing concerns. I also think it's understandable that many fans are concerned because they know from experience that many of these same convenience features hurt other games in their opinion. I'm not judging the game yet and I can't wait to play it. Last time I wanted to play a game so bad was probably Shadow of the Colossus.
SneakyStephan
Banned
you seem to confuse the words challenge and chore
being able to respec changes nothing about the area or combat design or game mechanics
Seems like you play dark souls for the 'cred' and not for the challenge
see what I'm doing here? I'm judging what kind of player you are and if you're a real dark souls fan
air jordans for dogs
Member
People who genuinly like the souls series get annoyed by requests to "dumb down" the gameplay because dark souls & demons souls are unique in this gaming age. There's such a flood of linear, tutorial filled, shove-it-in-your-face type games nowadays. From software are almost the only developer not afraid to design their games in a weird "archaically" fashion.
Agreed. I never used a wiki for the first DkS and DeS walkthroughs. Not only wasn't planning a character build that hard, it wasn't necessary. Unless your doing some very specific semi-professional PVP, min-max-ing flatout isn't necessary in these games. You can finish the game with practically any build.
People want permanence and consequences to their decisions. How is that a chore?
Seriously, I'm so fucking sick of people saying shit like "Seems like you play dark souls for the 'cred' and not for the challenge." NO. It's not that at all. All this is about is my personal gaming experience. I couldn't care less what others are doing, if they are doing worse or better than me. I don't give a shit.
Sanctuary
Member
You're right, thinking is a chore. Combat is a chore too, so I hope that there are many weapons where I can just mash buttons since I lack the required patience and pattern recognition to overcome it. I also hope that in the next game they just do away with the health bars. What's the point of them anyway? They just lead to death, and dying isn't fun. I don't want to die, it's too inconvenient. It's bad enough that I have to touch a bonfire whenever I want to go anywhere now. Too much of a chore, and I hope that the next game is a little more linear so I don't have to worry about getting lost and having to touch a bonfire.
This all sounds great to me. All of the new things they put in here seems, to me, to make it easier for people to play it the way they want. This is a good thing!
These games have always been a bit obtuse and hard to get into for a lot of players so a lot of the new features might make it a bit more palatable for them.
These games have always been a bit obtuse and hard to get into for a lot of players so a lot of the new features might make it a bit more palatable for them.
You have to restart the game and beat the same bosses over again (knowing how easy it is to kill them again because you did it before and you know the enemy AI). Why? because you are a casual..thats why. Deal with it.
Mindsets like yours are the reason for why I don't enjoy most of today's games.You have to restart the game and beat the same bosses over again (knowing how easy it is to kill them again because you did it before and you know the enemy AI). Why? because you are a casual..thats why. Deal with it.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
You have to restart the game and beat the same bosses over again (knowing how easy it is to kill them again because you did it before and you know the enemy AI). Why? because you are a casual..thats why. Deal with it.
I love how you finally get that rare weapon drop 20 hours into the game... with the wrong toon.
Yeah motherfucker... I'm hardcore as fuck. Carry this shit around in my bottomless box and I'll wait for NG+++++++++++++ to finally get it with the build I actually planned around it.
German magazines don't usually go higher than ~92%.
The highest score I've ever seen in a German magazine was 96% for Half-Life 2, you could say anything above 90 is GOTY - GOTG material.
The logic behind it: 100% is THE perfect game. Everyone loves it, literally nothing to complain about. Of course such a game will never exist, so you'll never see a perfect score from Germany.
Yeah, why even make it rare and why have weapon stats in the first place. God forbid I can't use some piece of loot because that would mean my character stats matter. Just let everyone use any weapon at any time. No time wasted at all! Great.
I think it's essential for my enjoyment with the game. And before anyone spouts that bs again: no, I'm not hardcore.
I get why people are protective (Dark Souls is without a doubt my favorite game of all time by a wide margin even) but I wish each of these threads didn't end up with such hostility and negativity.
I've said this at least once before but thus far, everything that sounded bad to me about DkS 2 was followed up with details that then made it ok/good/smart. The one I hate most is the voice chat, but with it being two-way opt-in, it's easy for me to just ignore it altogether.
I am sure that having warping work from the start sets up the game to take that away from you under special circumstances, much like what happens in Firelink Shrine, or the Painted World.
We know that the respec isn't common. It's probably once per game. I don't see how respec is going to stop me from playing through NG a bunch of times with different builds. I like playing NG+ as well (I've cleared NG+++) but the early game is likely to be a blast to play with differently underpowered characters and I don't see a late game/next cycle respec changing that. I'd prefer that respec cost you 5-10 levels per use. (Maybe it does, we don't know exactly how it works yet.)
And personally, it's far too early for me to worry about what they do to Dark Souls 3 when I haven't had a chance to really digest and evaluate the changes in Dark Souls 2 yet, considering it's not out.
I've said this at least once before but thus far, everything that sounded bad to me about DkS 2 was followed up with details that then made it ok/good/smart. The one I hate most is the voice chat, but with it being two-way opt-in, it's easy for me to just ignore it altogether.
I am sure that having warping work from the start sets up the game to take that away from you under special circumstances, much like what happens in Firelink Shrine, or the Painted World.
We know that the respec isn't common. It's probably once per game. I don't see how respec is going to stop me from playing through NG a bunch of times with different builds. I like playing NG+ as well (I've cleared NG+++) but the early game is likely to be a blast to play with differently underpowered characters and I don't see a late game/next cycle respec changing that. I'd prefer that respec cost you 5-10 levels per use. (Maybe it does, we don't know exactly how it works yet.)
And personally, it's far too early for me to worry about what they do to Dark Souls 3 when I haven't had a chance to really digest and evaluate the changes in Dark Souls 2 yet, considering it's not out.
I would rather grind for a rare item/loot/souls to respec midway through the game instead of starting over and fight the bosses again. Don't get me wrong I like the hardcore elements of Dark Souls but forcing you to restart the entire game because you want to do a different build is a bit dumb. (This doesn't apply to NG+ ofc)
Sanctuary
Member
Ok, you might have a point if there were actually any drops that rare besides maybe the Black Knight Greataxe. And since you said finally, that's an indication that you knew about the weapon ahead of time. If you knew about it ahead of time, then you probably also knew where it dropped from (and how quickly the enemy that drops it can be reached) and what the stat requirements were.
Human Effigy/Humanity seems the only way to replenish your HP back to 100%.
I'm with you on the warp from the start, it reminds me of Demon's Souls and I'm ok with this plus I don't think that it will affect level design since the director said that DS2 is less linear than the first game so I'm assuming that things like shortcuts will still be present.
The re-spec option is what I'm kinda worried about but that's mainly because we don't know much about it like how many times you can use the soul vessel, in what point in the game can be found and how rare it is...will it have the drop rate of a Channeler's Trident or the drop rate of a Titanite Slab? I wish we knew more things about it.
That's because respeccing is the first sign of decline in RPGs. In and of itself it seems innocuous enough (though I personally dislike it), but it's the harbinger of doom. Or rather it's the harbinger of fluffy clouds and rainbows and fun for everyone. Which is somehow worse.
The thing about restarting the game in DkS is that it usually makes the player realize just how much they've already learned about how to play; clearing what was the first 15 hours in a single hour. That's one of the key aspects of DkS that separates it from a lot of other RPGs: it's actually a ton of fun to replay just for the hell of it.
robotzombie
Member
Wait, so if people are mad about re-speccing under the guise of wanting their decisions and possible errors to be permanent, can't they just play as if the item doesn't exist?
And if the item existing is a problem because its just so damn alluring that you want the power to be out of your hands entirely (i.e. not in the game), then aren't you really not all that invested in the whole wanting decisions to matter thing in the first place?
I mean the only place I could see it being a problem for a person who doesn't want it do exist is in a multiplayer setting where you would need to use all resources available in order to compete. But in the very limited multiplayer scenarios in the Souls games, most people would go into it knowing their build to begin with, so you'd have no need for re-speccing anyway, unless you literally made a mistake and clicked a wrong button or five...
And if the item existing is a problem because its just so damn alluring that you want the power to be out of your hands entirely (i.e. not in the game), then aren't you really not all that invested in the whole wanting decisions to matter thing in the first place?
I mean the only place I could see it being a problem for a person who doesn't want it do exist is in a multiplayer setting where you would need to use all resources available in order to compete. But in the very limited multiplayer scenarios in the Souls games, most people would go into it knowing their build to begin with, so you'd have no need for re-speccing anyway, unless you literally made a mistake and clicked a wrong button or five...
Sanctuary
Member
No, that's not the real reason at all. I'm sure that most (if not all) of those most vocal against it will not use it on their first playthrough; but they might on their 5th 6th etc.
The real reason is because it's just another part of what makes the Souls series different from every other modern game out there being chipped away and a prelude of what more than likely will come later if this ends up being a popular feature.
No, I need the game to impose the rules on me for the intended effect (in other words: knowing that there's no possibility to revoke my choices). I don't want to have to think about some item I don't want to use. And when I know the item exists, I would've to resist the urge to use it. Thoughts like that are not how I want to spend my time with the game.
It's the same with how the quicksave feature ruined suspense and pacing in shooters in my opinion. "Don't use it" it doesn't really solve the problem, rather it creates new problems as far as the enjoyment of the experience is concerned.
Jesus just drop the item once you acquire it. Are you for real?
Why do others need to have a lesser experience because you want the game to be exactly designed to accommodate your very specific playstyle?
Why do others need to have a lesser experience because you want the game to be exactly designed to accommodate your very specific playstyle?
The point is: those games, many rpgs among them, with all the convience features you desire are already out there in huge quantities. Why do some of you want to change the one franchise that isn't like those game into one of them? Players that specifically dislike those features don't have those alternatives.
Sanctuary
Member
You do realize this also applies to those who don't want the Souls series pandering to the mainstream/modern crowd right? There are already enough games out there to fill the needs of the mainstream.
From what I've read, FROM saw the NG+ replay value, with a harder difficulty, but with the same character, as something that could be improved upon.
One of the ways to improve upon replaying the game with your character on a harder difficulty, AND to give the player the freshness of trying out a different build, is to give the player the option to respec.
You replay the game again, but because you know how the game rolls from your first try it's more fun to replay it on a harder difficulty. Plus, you have the option to try out something different.
It's a fucking win/win guys. Jezus.
One of the ways to improve upon replaying the game with your character on a harder difficulty, AND to give the player the freshness of trying out a different build, is to give the player the option to respec.
You replay the game again, but because you know how the game rolls from your first try it's more fun to replay it on a harder difficulty. Plus, you have the option to try out something different.
It's a fucking win/win guys. Jezus.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I don't know how having the option of using a respec is in any way accommodating a very specific playstyle. It actually enables more playstyles.
I've explained it about 5 times on the last two pages why "don't use it" is not the solution.
Garcia
Member
Some people just don't respect their time apparently. Way to be masochistic about your ways for having ""fun"".
I can't believe so many of you are scared about having options in a game. Jesus. Get some self control. Not wanting to think about having the option of doing X or Y, what the hell is wrong with you?
Q
Queen of Hunting
Unconfirmed Member
this was posted on the dark souls fb page where they showed the tv/cinemea add
Dark Souls II is out in the UK on March 14th.
PC version will be released soon after and the date will be confirmed very soon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX0CXWtnwqg&feature=youtu.be
Dark Souls II is out in the UK on March 14th.
PC version will be released soon after and the date will be confirmed very soon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX0CXWtnwqg&feature=youtu.be
Way to be derogatory about some people's genuine enjoyment of the game.
*sigh*
Another "don't use it" post, another flippant "you're hardcore!" accusation... checking all the boxes I see.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Some people find masochism a lot of fun, just as some people find sadism fun. Both kinds of people are prevalent in Souls players.
Are you really that prude?
I really can't see the argument. You don't HAVE to respec if you don't want to. If you want the "true dark souls experience" (lol) then just start a new character and plan your build in advance. It's no big deal.
For those of us who play Dark Souls exclusively for the PVP once we're done with PVE, then re-speccing is an absolute time saver. When I built my 50 faith, fully buffed 9xWOG build to terrorise people online with, it took me days to go through to NG+2 and collect everything I needed. Sure you can call it an investment etc.. but considering I've put around 2000 hours into the game already, I don't particularly enjoy speed running the PVE game for the 927873248923th time, just to tailor a single build around a unique style of play. It's just a means to an end. Now we can re-spec, I can change builds whenever I feel like it, keeping the game fresh, exciting, and open to experimentation.
It cuts out the fluff and get's me where I want to be, in PVP. If you're truly concerned about how other people choose to play the game (whilst using features the developers intended people to use in the first place) then you have far more worrying concerns in your life than changing your stats in a video game.
For those of us who play Dark Souls exclusively for the PVP once we're done with PVE, then re-speccing is an absolute time saver. When I built my 50 faith, fully buffed 9xWOG build to terrorise people online with, it took me days to go through to NG+2 and collect everything I needed. Sure you can call it an investment etc.. but considering I've put around 2000 hours into the game already, I don't particularly enjoy speed running the PVE game for the 927873248923th time, just to tailor a single build around a unique style of play. It's just a means to an end. Now we can re-spec, I can change builds whenever I feel like it, keeping the game fresh, exciting, and open to experimentation.
It cuts out the fluff and get's me where I want to be, in PVP. If you're truly concerned about how other people choose to play the game (whilst using features the developers intended people to use in the first place) then you have far more worrying concerns in your life than changing your stats in a video game.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
Let's not celebrate a game losing a huge part of it's gameplay identity, for the sake of attracting a wider crowd to it. The Souls series was one of these few franchises left that punished it's players for bad decisions, and mistakes. But that's gone now. There were dozens of action RPGs you could have played, if you wanted an easier, less forgiving experience. Now Souls is about to change into a game it isn't really meant to be.
It's not about the respec item. It's about the philosophy behind it. It seeped through the core of the game itself. For me Dark Souls was not just about the gameplay, or the visuals, or the art design. It was about how it felt. Everything had weight. Every decision was permanent. Every spent soul meant something. Even killing a NPC meant he/she was gone from the game. The game made me feel like I was part of a real living world.
But now FROM accommodated the people who didn't try to understand how Souls was unique. Now you can respec. Now you can bring back dead NPCs to life. Now you can zip around the map from the get-go. There's nothing permanent or earned. The very core tenets of the game have changed from what made Dark Souls, Dark Souls into just another action RPG.
That's what angers people. Not the fact that some people will respec all the time. The fact that the entire game is seemingly now built around ideas like it. The whole "Don't use it, if you don't like it" is a poorly thought out strawman. It's not just about that. It's just one of the many examples of why DSII has been watered down in many ways.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
"similar structure to DS1, Majula acts as the central hub. You can visit different areas. The reviewer praises the diversity of the areas:"
God thank you, yes! I hope mandatory exploring is set to a minimum.
God thank you, yes! I hope mandatory exploring is set to a minimum.
Sanctuary
Member
Scroll up and read. I already said the real reasoning, and F0rneus does a better job expanding upon it.
The item is supposed to be very rare though, so you might still have to play PVE numerous times.
Rickenslacker
Banned
I can understand that and don't find it unreasonable, in fact I was out there complaining about Diablo 3 when it removed the permanence of stat and skill allocation I liked so much from the previous games. I don't think there's anything wrong with the personal value of making a character knowing you can (and without outside help, very likely will) make suboptimal that you'll just deal with. That said, when the message coming across is less "Hey, there's this thing that I really personally enjoyed about the old games that's being taken away from the new one, that really sucks." to "Oh, you like this change? Ugh, UGH, you are such a poser." I start to take issue -- which isn't my response to you, or anyone who just really likes stat allocation permanence.
Character builds aren't important when it comes to the PvE content, no matter how you spec out it's not going to be impossible to finish the game and SL1 naked runs are a testament to that. On the flip side you could theoretically grind out and max everything and use whatever you like. That's not really where I'm coming from and respeccing doesn't make a world of difference with or without in that regards. But in terms of PvP it becomes an invaluable tool when the community decides around a certain level cap to play around and specialize towards. Being able to play around with your build without spending several dozens of hours of prep to get there doesn't take from the challenge of the game, it just gives me a bit more respect as a player, and that's something that I find truly valuable in the series.
I guess it's all dandy when you can moan all you want about a mechanic in the game but then when someone else says the same thing is fun to them, it suddenly means they don't respect their time and are masochistic. Get a grip.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Only if you've been there first, so I don't think that is too much of an issue. Does anyone know if warping is only to specific Bonfires like in DS?
I wonder how many features in Dark Souls the Demon Souls players thought would herald the "death knell" of the franchise...?
It probably is limited to certain bonfires in an area, like with the lordvessel. I doubt there will be a list of 50 bonfires that you have to scroll through.
People thought the introduction of bonfires would make the game worse.
I'm not sure how exactly bonfire warping will work, but if it's straight up warp to anyone that's been discovered right away, I'm going to miss unlocking shortcuts. That was very satisfying in DeDa Souls. I think one of the best carrots in the Souls games is accomplishing something beneficial that's permanent, no matter what else may happen. Opening a shortcut, killing one of the non-respawning non-boss monsters, it just felt good. Like a one tick closer to beating the game.
Garcia
Member
If anything the game will be definitely harder to master than the original. You're more open to damage and have to level up stamina and equipment load individually. No need to worry about all the convenient stuff added into the game.
How hard it is to understand this really? You can make each new game plus an experience without needing to make more files and if you respect to a class in the end you don't like you will be stuck with that poor decision until you find the Lord Vessel again and you might be having a hard time because the class you are using now doesn't work well with your playstyle and you are forced now to learn that build you made by an error until you get the next Lord Vessel. It is not like you can constantly re-spec tons of times per run or anything as the item seems as 1 per playthrough kind of item.
Some people see streamlining the game as something negative but in some parts I see the good things about it. It's cutting the fat of the game that doesn't affect the core game as much as they think. If you use bonfires a lot for navigation and don't explore you will miss content in the game that is a given and it hurts that player experience but if you still go for the exploration you should be fine finding weapons and armors and other interesting things. The bonfire traveling from the beginning cuts time of going back and forth from some areas where you rather move faster away from it. Let's say they took it out and you would have to go all the way up from Tomb of Giants to Firelink Shrine? It would have been annoying. What if there wasn't fast travel on Lost Izalith? Annoying area people rather leave fast. Sure those are later areas but I know that wont kill the entertainment and difficulty of the game. People are putting so much pessimism without knowing how hard or how exactly every system in DSII works. I was a bit disappointed at first when I heard about the fast travel from start and re-spec but I've come at peace with it. I've been okay with the coop as they did it in a fine way taking an item slot.
People should chill a bit before already putting the game as OMG WORST SOULS GAME EVER. It isn't the end of the world as we know it and it will still certainly be more challenging than the average game even with those changes.
Then again a lot of people already seems to have made their mind when they announced it was a new director anyway