I dunno, the game is pretty good and you can feel passion of the artists behind it. I guess something went RIGHT at the end, otherwise the game would be another Fable 3, and it is clearly not. Maybe the guy is charge is a dick, but at least he knew what he was doing, at least most of the time.
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Castlevania gate: Insider dev from MercurySteam vents internal problems. [Up: More]
- Thread starter Ahasverus
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Maybe something went right at the beginning and he/they salvaged some parts of that while the new people brought in to replace the leaving designers were responsible for the modern day environments? Makes a little more sense to me that way.
Dunno,modern environments are too involved in the story, to be added post haste at the end.
But just compare the quality of those environments with the ones found in LoS1. Even the weakest LoS1 levels are leaps and bounds above those urban environments. It really seems to me that many of the designers who were responsible for that great art in LoS1 left MS midway through development of LoS2. See the guy who now works at Tequila, for example. Looking at some pictures of Rime, you can almost tell which levels from LoS1 he worked on.
Unlike the Sega HD ports situation, in this case I can't be specific because I don't know the details, but many of those issues have been rumoured for years in Spanish forums and you always know people in the industry who tells you certain things that outline an ugly picture.
I know for a fact that the lay-offs are true, at least.
I know for a fact that the lay-offs are true, at least.
moltonasty
Member
Jeez...is the game really THAT bad? I was really looking forward to this. I've heard from some people it's worth checking out, as I loved the first one, but some more opinions would be appreciated.
Regardless, if this is true, the development sounds like a nightmare. Probably a lot of pressure from Konami to make a huge selling game, and TBH under that type of pressure I could see why a director would act like that. Not that it's right, but somewhat understandable.
Regardless, if this is true, the development sounds like a nightmare. Probably a lot of pressure from Konami to make a huge selling game, and TBH under that type of pressure I could see why a director would act like that. Not that it's right, but somewhat understandable.
Yeah, after LoS1 I had such high hopes for the future of the studio but they (or he) fucked it up.Fuck.
I suppose the possibility of Konami pulling the plug on anything from MS is likely from the sounds of it. This is horrible.
I could totally understand Konami cutting ties to MS now, I'd probably do the same. The studio's culture sounds toxic and Konami most likely knows much more than we do.Messofanego
Banned
From what I'm reading, not bad just the inconsistency is obvious and now we know the reasons why.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
Whoever optimized this game on PC deserves some serious credit.
This game looks astounding (not next gen as some claim, but fantastic) and still runs butter smooth.
Its a shame that Thief chugs (while not looking nearly as good) and this can look so great and still keep performance totally fluid.
This game looks astounding (not next gen as some claim, but fantastic) and still runs butter smooth.
Its a shame that Thief chugs (while not looking nearly as good) and this can look so great and still keep performance totally fluid.
In my opinion, this is not a terrible game. To me, it's 7.5 - 8/10. I think there is a lot of value here, but this game should've been way better. Especially after a nearly 3 year development period, new engine, and expanded design. If LoS1 was to Super Castlevania IV, then LoS2 was supposed to be to SOTN. Unfortunately, it doesn't quite get there.
There are really great moments, but the game is just really messed up pacing and consistency wise.
It's honestly the first I've heard of it. I did a search and there's no mention of it at all anywhere else. Perhaps they had them sign NDAs or something.
SolidSnakex
Member
Is there any actual evidence of the layoffs aside from these forum posts? There are always claims on forums, but you aren't going to have sites running any of them unless they can find some trustworthy sources to verify the claims.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Its not that the game is HORRIBLE
it just feels like...it feels like 3-4 different somewhat unpolished games made by 3-4 different development teams that didn't really coordinate or communicate with each other, and then they stapled them all together so they would have lots and lots of content to tour. Some aspects its better than LoS1, some parts not so much, its just kinda okayish. IDK if all these behind the scenes shit is true, but playing the game and seeing all the little desperate game elements coming together, its not that hard to believe. Its an INCREDIBLY inconsistent and incoherent video game.
it just feels like...it feels like 3-4 different somewhat unpolished games made by 3-4 different development teams that didn't really coordinate or communicate with each other, and then they stapled them all together so they would have lots and lots of content to tour. Some aspects its better than LoS1, some parts not so much, its just kinda okayish. IDK if all these behind the scenes shit is true, but playing the game and seeing all the little desperate game elements coming together, its not that hard to believe. Its an INCREDIBLY inconsistent and incoherent video game.
First of all we don't know if all this is true.
I can register in any forum and start to throw shit everywhere.
Thank you
Do you believe that? Lol Iga was never making that 1999 game. If anything was coming was. Remake, another symphony clone and an early resurrection storylone.
brandonh83
Banned
Yep. My thoughts exactly. Of course the people that haven't even played it are going by this and just let it validate their reasoning to not pick it up further... but hey, their choice. If LoS2 is what bad games are. I will gladly take more of them like it.
Obviously people can feel the way they want to about anything, I just think that if the team feels like the game is total shit and doesn't come close to the first one, well again I find that to be incredibly dramatic. The combat is solid and every boss fight feels like a labor of creativity. The art and visuals are amazing for the most part. The soundtrack is once again pretty terrific. The modern setting could have been handled way better and it was the one thing I was worried about coming off the ending of the first game, but while it's definitely a weak point, it doesn't hurt the game for me. The stealth sections feel misplaced, but at the same time they're pretty quick and easy to get through.
It reminds me of people complaining about the Titan fights in the first game-- they may not be the best parts of the game, but they're over so fast and incredibly simple that I have no idea how they could have actually ruined anyone's time with the overall product. There's just so much more game there beyond the stealth sections or the Titan fights, and both games have been pretty lengthy.
Again, they can be disappointed in the game they made, but if they honestly feel like it's a piece of shit, I think they're being way too hard on themselves. I've played shitty games. This isn't one of them. It's far from perfect and could have used some more polish, and not every idea or gameplay mechanic or section of the game totally works. But it isn't shit.
This isn't entirely true; I've heard that there may be a demo for the 1999 game packed in with the Final Fantasy VII remake on Wii U.
I dub this "Resident Evil 6 Syndrome".
^ And the HL3 beta access. How could I forget.
For some reason this game has been controversy over controversy, the "Rape" scene, the overblown stealth complaints (read: Kotaku's 4 hours on a single room) and of course reviee scores. Now this.
I want Castlevania to just return to being Castlevania of old. I don't like the new series, which is nothing more than a god of war clone. I don't want another Metroidvania because well, it's just a ripoff of Super Metroid. Just give me Castlevania in the vain of the classic gameplay and series.
I liked SotN, but it wasn't Castlevania to me.
I liked SotN, but it wasn't Castlevania to me.
Imagine a new RoB/CV3 type of game, a 2D blockbuster. I'd die.
We got one of those on Wii. Or does that not count? ;_;
MagnaderAlpha
Member
Would sacrifice a few babies to the Dark Lord for something like that!
That was a great diversion but it didn't have the grandiosity of those 2.
Anticitizen One
Banned
I remember not too long ago there were people hailing Mercury Steam as the next Retro Studio or Naughty Dog lol
I totally agree. My rig should be running Thief at 60fps at all times no sweat but the more I play it, the more framerate drops I encounter. I don't think I've encountered a single framerate drop in Castlevania LOS2.
brandonh83
Banned
They did? Huh. That's... weird, even to me who generally likes their work on Castlevania in general.
It was themselves. Enric Alvarez said they wanted to be the next naughty dog. If they had corrected LoS mistakes with 2 they would had been on the right track.
That said I enjoyed LoS2 inmensely and consider it a good play for anyone who likes Action Adventure, that's why the devs calling it "shit" hurt me. I can only imagine how thw original vision was. The deleted ending gives us a glimpse, what a difference.
So it's impossible to have varied enviroments AND explorable places? LOL, seriously, no! MS was just "lazy", this time. Sorry, but they could have done shit even more imaginative inside the castle than it was ever done before. Fuck, I think that even LoI and CoD, with all the copy-pasta have Castles with more variation than this game, really.
So stop thinking that it's the fans fault. It's just a shit decision to put modern enviroments in a game called Castlevania, really. Hopefully, no one tries this shit anymore.
allgamespc
Banned
you sound like a corporate fan, why should he be discredited from what he is saying? why cant you believe him? there is a reason why studios close and its not just cause of bad games, bioware is a good example of how you go bad when you get bought by someone like EA
not_so_special
Banned
i have some friends who worked there and pyros..at all of this is true...and it shows..even in the first game
the best dudes on MS were the ones on the gfx side
Necromanti
Member
I guess the truth always comes out in the end. I'll be honest and say that I had no clue who Alvarez was before this; I only ever seemed to hear about Cox whenever the games were presented or discussed.
Funchameleon
Banned
LoS2 is so much better than LoS1 it's actively insulting to the industry that anyone considers any differently. Why is this game so polarizing?
Discotheque
Banned
it is better than the first gameplay-wise. but they throw in these absolute dogshit stealth sections. and the art is half beautiful and half atrocious.
modern day sections look terrible. especially the giant bad guys you have to sneak around. and then when you transport back to the past you start to see how nice the art design is in half the game.
yeah the stealth sections are really short. like 2-5 minutes each but they don't belong. and that agreus part with the leaves? lmao i wasn't even gonna bother with that so i decided to youtube it and figured out how to beat it quick because i could tell that playing it straight would ruin my enjoyment of the game.
i'm liking it quite a bit so far but man those modern day sections are not appealing at all. i initially thought it looked cool with the city skyline but shortly after i now always relish going back to the castle.
Explains a lot of the inconsistencies in LoS2. Modern day, stealth, some enemies, etc. LoS1 was more consistent in general.
Do we have any word on this insider's role? Because 35 people being laid off without anyone noticing is pretty rare, even for a non-English studio. Or was it more like QA/testing contractors?
Do we have any word on this insider's role? Because 35 people being laid off without anyone noticing is pretty rare, even for a non-English studio. Or was it more like QA/testing contractors?
The plot thickens, please tell us more
It sounds like he's still there, I don"t think he'll say his role.
Bob Dobalina
Member
I don't fully agree, I thought the castle turning into a city in the future was a cool concept but they did a terrible job at providing atmosphere or variety. The vibe in the city concept art looks great, there's just no creativity that went into actually designing areas. It didn't help thst Zobek's CSI like rules for finding acolytes came across as really stupid and impeded any potential creative design.
I really enjoyed the playthrough from the start but the quality didn't keep up through the last third of the game and ultimately the whole thing seems like good ideas/setpieces put together poorly. I believe this is what "our game is shit" refers to.
Sorry but this is not a good way to start here.
You should be verified by mods before throw shit.
Sylverstone14
Member
It seems like 3D Castlevania games just aren't meant to be.
Always something holding it back, whether it's spotty gameplay or just some weird drama.
Always something holding it back, whether it's spotty gameplay or just some weird drama.
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