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[Slamtastic]

Out of any faults LoS2 may have, a controllable camera and an open world are certainly not among them.

I only wish the open world was a true one and less split up by portals and big doors.

I've wanted an action game to drop the mission menu and be open world for a while now, and that was one of my hopes for LoS2, even if it meant less than top tier combat quality.

At least I have Darksiders 2.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

Too bad I don't have time to make a full spanish translation (because the one with google is really bad). Maybe another fellow member from Spain (as it contains various typical phrases only used in Spain) has the time to do a full one.

Don't know if its real, but if it is, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightlest.

 

[Calabi]

So is this why triple AAA is really collapsing? There's LA Noire, Red Dead Redemption, and Bioshock Infinite and now this, supposedly all had bad management.

Are they ever going to get to figuring this out. Its not like there arent solutions like random promotions, but that would never happen because they like to have their butts kissed.

 

[Joeki11a]

Konami should had given the IP to Platinum Games...

 

[EVH]

Haha, this sounds totally like the typical manager / businessman from Spain. Just a bag of ego after a relative success with zero consideration for the people who makes the work. I believe this 100%, specially the low quality contracts and the no counteroffer stuff.

Seriously, this behavior is so common in this fucking country...

 

[sphinx]

why is that post in that spanish forum considered legit?

what points that the guy is saying the truth?

 

[kunonabi]

Konami should had given the IP to Platinum Games...

as long Kamiya doesn't touch it, maybe. His approach to combat was born out of not wanting to be like cv as much he loves it.

 

[Slamtastic]

as long Kamiya doesn't touch it, maybe. His approach to combat was born out of not wanting to be like cv as much he loves it.

I'm interested in what you mean by this.

I'd also say that combatwise LoS is already super different from Castlevania (before it).

 

[Ahasverus]

I'm interested in what you mean by this.

I'd also say that combatwise LoS is already super different from Castlevania (before it).

He hates action games.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

The problem this time around was that there were fewer items autographed by Hideo Kojima when he visited at Mercury Steam.

 

[infinityBCRT]

Out of any faults LoS2 may have, a controllable camera and an open world are certainly not among them.

The problem is the open world doesn't add too much to the game and when you have a situation like that, the controllable camera takes away a bit from the atmosphere. There were so many amazing vistas in LoS1. LoS2 has some great visual moments but its weird kind of having the over the shoulder gears of war view most of the game.

 

[Balb]

I thought they were going to blame the Japanese branch of Konami since they probably wouldn't read this and push back.

 

[Slamtastic]

the controllable camera takes away a bit from the atmosphere. There were so many amazing vistas in LoS1. LoS2 has some great visual moments but its weird kind of having the over the shoulder gears of war view most of the game.

But in exchange for vistas you get playability.

Spoiler

I am a vehement hater of fixed cameras and will not change my stance.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

The problem is the open world doesn't add too much to the game and when you have a situation like that, the controllable camera takes away a bit from the atmosphere. There were so many amazing vistas in LoS1. LoS2 has some great visual moments but its weird kind of having the over the shoulder gears of war view most of the game.

Same thing happened with Blue Stinger when they localized it, which is kind of fresh in my mind as there was a thread about that game today. Same fucking thing. The cinematic camera angles gave the game a lot of atmosphere and 'holy shit' moments, and was a big part of what made LoS good.

 

[kunonabi]

I'm interested in what you mean by this.

I'd also say that combatwise LoS is already super different from Castlevania (before it).

cv is about making choices and committing to your actions. kamiya felt that being locked into your attacks was restrictive and liked the idea of being to able cancel attacks into dodges. both are fine approaches but it doesn't really fit castlevania and can go horribly wrong if you have talentless hacks trying to implement it as Mirror of Fate proved.

 

[Tenki]

Mercury Steam is going to be the next Pyro Studios, in the bad way.

 

[Z3M0G]

"Continues"???

What did I miss??

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

Man I hate hearing stuff like this. When you play the final product and then hear all these stories, it just becomes obvious and sad. The troubles of the dev team are written all over how the game turned out.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

It's funny how he doesn't acknowledge his co-workers when they say hi, if it's true!

Surely Miyamoto doesn't do that!

When you greet Miyamoto, Miyamoto pierces your heart with those glowing eyes and once you melt and fall to the floor from the awe-inspiring greatness, he gives you that mask salesman's creepy smile as he picks you up with his divine hands!

 

[Mr. RHC]

This is a huge trainwreck, it's hard to believe.... this could have been an highly praised game if all of this is true.

But as some have said, you can't blame it on just one guy, but I will neither excuse nor forgive bad and egoistic management/design.

More accurate translation of relevant parts:

-The entire team is aware that the game we made is a complete piece of shit, we wish it was fit to lick the boots of the original game.

-Enric Alvarez is to be blamed. Without a doubt he's the one who screwed up the development of this game, basing everything on his own personal criteria, ignoring programmers, desingers and artists.

- There's no corporate culture, just a handful of people working in the blind and at the mercy of the whims of an alleged visionary.

- Absolutely all design decisions are approved, appropriated and cut by Enric Alvarez.

- Future expectations are pretty much null. The publisher, Konami, isn't happy at all with the mediocre game we've made.

dat enric

This makes me angry and sad at the same time. I feel so sorry for the team, the great team that did LoS1...

 

[liquidekkah]

This is a huge trainwreck, it's hard to believe.... this could have been an highly praised game if all of this is true.

But as some have said, you can't blame it on just one guy, but I will neither excuse nor forgive bad and egoistic management/design.

This makes my angry and sad at the same time. I feel so sorry for the team, the great team that did LoS1...

I don't think I could sum up my feelings any better than you just did with that post.

 

[Zincalloy]

LoS 1 was one of my favorite games of all time...God this is depressing. I'll wait till LoS2 is in the bargain bin.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Wonder who's idea was it for the stealth sections and the modern day setting.

 

[JohngPR]

I'll try to translate where Lord Audie left off...it'll take a little bit since some of this is a different dialect of Spanish (with different phrasings). I'll try to make it a little more conversational if I can.

 

[ezekial45]

Damn, this is very sad to hear. MS could've been in a great spot after this game.

I still hope they can get their act together, or at least Konami will keep a closer watch on the development of the game.

 

[brandonh83]

More accurate translation of relevant parts:

-The entire team is aware that the game we made is a complete piece of shit, we wish it was fit to lick the boots of the original game.

Some serious melodrama right here, if the team truly feels that way about their game.

 

[SolidSnakex]

"Continues"???

What did I miss??

He's probably referring to the review scores. This game is sitting at 62 on Metacritic while the first game has an 85 rating.

 

[Takamura-San]

I'll try to translate where Lord Audie left off...it'll take a little bit since some of this is a different dialect of Spanish (with different phrasings). I'll try to make it a little more conversational if I can.

Thanks. Just got back home now and still winding down.

 

[Mr. RHC]

Some serious melodrama right here, if the team truly feels that way about their game.

After the revelation of the scores, and after LoS1 did so well critically, I believe there is a lot of anger and disappointment in the team.

We will see how it performs financially, but after the hit that was LoS1, everyone must have been really ambitious and everything.

Having your dreams crushed supposedly by just one guy must be an excruciating experience.

 

[Neper]

Don't know if anybody posted it correctly, but the original post is this one:

http://www.3djuegos.com/foros/tema/28947495/28/comentarios-del-analisis-de-castlevania-lords-of-shadow-ii/#mensaje29007966

I am incontact with the website's staff and told me that they are trying to reach the user to fully confirm his identity, although some confidential press info they have seems accurate enough.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

Besides having better combat, bosses, graphics, and music, you mean...?

Adding a better counter to the core combat system or having a few more funner bosses battles doesn't change the fact that the game wasn't as good as Asylum.

 

[JohngPR]

-The internal structure here is archaic based on the "good old boy system" (paraphrasing, the direct translation of "socio" is good friend) from the development of Scrapland (old Mercury Steam game).

-So folks can get a better idea, the game's engine (with all of its deficiencies) was created by only two people, one of them good friends (suggestive tone) with the company aka Eric. It made it impossible to have access to new programmers to renovate core features in the engine. Things continued to be done the same way they were done 10 years ago.

- A big part of the people that founded Mercury Steam are also department heads, people that lack the mentality for directing or delegating responsibilities. In the majority of cases, the guys in the trenches knew more than the department leads. This structure helped stagnate development, case in point the way Lords of Shadow 2 ended up.

- Absolutely every decision of design was supervised and monitored by Eric Alvarez. Various designers flew the coup because they couldn't handle it anymore.

- The art direction on this project has been erratic like a chicken with his head cut off (this is the most similar phrasing I could think of). After having his ideas overturned, the art director decided to leave. It was a battle of egos most in part by Enric Alvarez that dated back to the Rebel Act days (Rebel Act is an old game development studio from Spain...I'm assuming the art director and Enric were there before MS). The art director actual works at Tequila now...working on the game Ryme.

More to come...doing some fact checking on the way to make sense of some of it.

 

[Foffy]

After the revelation of the scores, and after LoS1 did so well critically, I believe there is a lot of anger and disappointment in the team.

We will see how it performs financially, but after the hit that was LoS1, everyone must have been really ambitious and everything.

Having your dreams crushed supposedly by just one guy must be an excruciating experience.

One man can make all the difference. We have already seen that in the series. Takashi Takeda was the main director to Harmony of Dissonance, Lament of Innocence, and Curse of Darkness. What these three particular games have in common is that of the many games produced by Koji Igarashi, these are far and away the ones with the most repetitious, tedious, and bland level design.

 

[swazzyswess]

Adding a better counter to the core combat system or having a few more funner bosses battles doesn't change the fact that the game wasn't as good as Asylum.

Totally agree about Arkham vs City.

In general, I basically never want to see another game set in a dark/gothic city unless they do something really unique with it. It just gets old fast.

 

[Chance Hale]

I think the game is a lot better than a lot of people are giving it credit for but it's very clear that something must have gone awry somewhere because it's very inconsistent compared to the first game and the bizarrely bland art design of most of the city segments is very unexpected given how beautiful the first game is(and much of LoS2 as well)

Definitely doesn't have the same amount of polish and despite really enjoying it I can't help but feel it should have been something truly special instead of just weird and pretty good.

 

[Messofanego]

In all seriousness, this Alvarez guy sounds like a real piece of work. It's always disheartening to hear about projects being ruined by control freaks and egomaniacs like him.

It seems quite a few AAA lead developers might be egomaniacs.

 

[Lucent]

Wow, called it.

lol wooooow. Those bricks. That door. It just looks so "eff it, let's just used the paint bucket tool and fill it with bricks bigger than the character. Scaling the door down is too much effort. Leave it."

 

[Riposte]

Adding a better counter to the core combat system or having a few more funner bosses battles doesn't change the fact that the game wasn't as good as Asylum.

That's a strong argument, but here's my counter: the fact Arkham City is better changes that fact.

It seems quite a few AAA lead developers might be egomaniacs.

http://i.imgur.com/PIj9wPc.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Yes and/or a lot of people in creative roles think their bosses are egomaniacs.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

It seems quite a few AAA lead developers might be egomaniacs.

Makes sense, they're no different than a CEO, really. Give someone the backing of a large publisher and tens of millions of dollars to make a game and many are going to power trip.

 

[TreIII]

Years ago, there was someone posting on CVDungeon who said they were playing Portrait of Ruin, months before release. They named every area in the game, and talked about boss strategies for creatures named Dagon, Astarte, etc. Even talked about the final boss.

Every single thing they said. Every. Single. Piece of info. Was 100% real. And that was months before release. Ever since then, I told myself I'll never doubt anything that comes from there.

So...Damn.

I remember that, crazy times. I think it was from GameFAQs though!

It was. "PORTRAITofRUIN" was the poster's name. She even posted youtube videos as the days got closer, in order to prove that she was telling the truth the entire time.

I wonder if she'll ever come back some day...

 

[Vazra]

The gameplay was improved to be way better than the first. The stealth missions were not hard at all I think I only made a mistake on the second or third one and it was cause I rushed it.

Spoiler

Agreus

I managed to do it on my second try and thought it was actually easy to handle. The main problem I see with the game is more on the narrative side of things which they make plot holes to event of the first game and Mirror of Fate.

 

[Foffy]

Years ago, there was someone posting on CVDungeon who said they were playing Portrait of Ruin, months before release. They named every area in the game, and talked about boss strategies for creatures named Dagon, Astarte, etc. Even talked about the final boss.

Every single thing they said. Every. Single. Piece of info. Was 100% real. And that was months before release. Ever since then, I told myself I'll never doubt anything that comes from there.

So...Damn.

She outed the whole plot and every single playable character. This included the bonus characters, and she was the one who first showed Sisters Mode.

This was like five/six months before the game came out. She was legit.

 

[SlasherJPC]

Some serious melodrama right here, if the team truly feels that way about their game.

Yep. My thoughts exactly. Of course the people that haven't even played it are going by this and just let it validate their reasoning to not pick it up further... but hey, their choice. If LoS2 is what bad games are. I will gladly take more of them like it.

 

[Messofanego]

Man I hate hearing stuff like this. When you play the final product and then hear all these stories, it just becomes obvious and sad. The troubles of the dev team are written all over how the game turned out.

Someone said that you can tell how a game's development went just from the game itself, maybe Blow. I think I heard it on Bombin' the AM with Patrick and Alex over Irrational closing?

 

[liquidekkah]

The gameplay was improved to be way better than the first. The stealth missions were not hard at all I think I only made a mistake on the second or third one and it was cause I rushed it.

Spoiler

Agreus

I managed to do it on my second try and thought it was actually easy to handle. The main problem I see with the game is more on the narrative side of things which they make plot holes to event of the first game and Mirror of Fate.

Yeah, I completely agree with this.

While everyone is complaining about the gameplay or scaling issues, I'm just dejected about the awful ending.

LoS and MoF were two of my favorite games. Narratively, they completely absorbed me. LoS2 hasn't quite reached that level, and from what I hear of the ending, it's just...depressing.

 

[JohngPR]

- A lot of staff has decided to take other offers externally, tired of the pace and progression of the company. It's rare that we don't see people pick up their things to work outside (unsure if this means outside the office, or leave to work at a different company...probably the latter). It's incredible that a major AAA studio in Spain (like Mercury Steam) doesn't have the dignity to counteroffer their employees in order to keep them. In this company, their employees, talents go unappreciated. There are no bonuses given...not even so much as an "atta boy"

- When it comes to production, the project leads would ignore deadlines and impose their own milestones to the development. Proof of this is the 6 month delay that came directly out of Mercury Steam's pocket.

- Many people can't help but compare the decline of Mercury Steam to that of Pyro Studios (another developer based in Spain).

- The QA department is treated like cattle and are given shameful wages and are treated regrettably. The treatment of the employees in general is regretable considering what they have to put up with.

- Future expectations are non-existent with a publisher like Konami, considering the mediocre product we made.

- Throughout development of LOS2, Mercury Steam has lost close to 35 employees, easy. This hasn't come out in the media. They haven't caught wind of new layoffs very quickly.

- Lastly, it wasn't all bad...the human element of this company is incredible. If the majority of the people that weren't allowed to advance due to the Jurassic caste system employed at this company were allowed to advance, they could have had a say in a new way of doing things and I'm convinced things could have been very different (in a good way).

- The quality of the employees here is like I've never seen, but were held back. I hope that those of you who have read this understand (or perhaps not) what I've detailed. If no one speaks out, all the frustrations we went through while making the game will be forgotten.

Thank you all for reading.

*** End of translation ***


Man, that's a lot of mud slinging. A lot of it sounds like things we've heard before in development.

I honestly hope that not every person at Mercury Steam has this sentiment. I'm only 3-4 hours in and I'm really enjoying the game so far. It's a little bit of a kick in the nuts if the guys that made the game don't even believe in it.

 

[Easy_D]

It was. "PORTRAITofRUIN" was the poster's name. She even posted youtube videos as the days got closer, in order to prove that she was telling the truth the entire time.

I wonder if she'll ever come back some day...

Also leaked the first real info for Order of Ecclesia iirc.

 

[swazzyswess]

The stealth missions were not hard at all I think I only made a mistake on the second or third one and it was cause I rushed it.

Spoiler

Agreus

I managed to do it on my second try and thought it was actually easy to handle.

But were those parts actually fun or interesting, aside from not being hard? I think that's the bigger question as far as the seemingly troubled development is concerned. Were they necessary parts to the game? Would you go back and replay those parts because you liked them so much?

 

[Foffy]

Man, that's a lot of mud slinging. A lot of it sounds like things we've heard before in development.

I honestly hope that not every person at Mercury Steam has this sentiment. I'm only 3-4 hours in and I'm really enjoying the game so far. It's a little bit of a kick in the nuts if the guys that made the game don't even believe in it.

I've reflected on my experience with the game now that I've beaten it, and you could very easily see parts of the game that reflect this conflicted situation some staff may have had. Some parts are well realized, but others are absolutely lifeless, the modern city being one of the worst I have seen in ages. Even the enemies that inhabit it are boring as fuck, too. Compare the blood skeletons to the monsters with shotguns, or the vampire warriors to the mechs. When they get the theme of Castlevania right, they nail it, the art direction and musical tone is legit Castlevania (some of the battle themes, at least). But like the first Lords of Shadow, when they are not aiming for that dark, gothic vibe, it literally is as generic as it can ever be.

I am also amazed that in a game that is about conclusions, about resolve, the entire series of events never feels anything close to that. Hilariously enough, perhaps due to writing or poor pacing, the best character in the game is the comic relief. Let that sink in.

 

[Vazra]

But were those parts actually fun or interesting, aside from not being hard? I think that's the bigger question as far as the seemingly troubled development is concerned. Were they necessary parts to the game? Would you go back and replay those parts because you liked them so much?

They break the monotony of the combat a bit and it makes sense as the enemies you are fighting can kill you quite fast with their weapons. (2-3 shots and you are dead) They are necessary and its more a puzzle/stealth than pure stealth. I had fun with it tbh but I wished they were fleshed out better with multiple options to solve the area besides 1 route.