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[Clevinger]

More fuel to the Drangleic = Lordran theory.

Was just about to post those. Besides the broken Lordvessel, the big one is ^^ this ^^ I think. Someone pointed out how you can faintly see the remainder of the short brick wall behind the statue from Dark Souls 1 that the rock/cave hasn't completely covered yet. It's a really nice little detail.

edit: Whoa, this is kinda blowing my mind.

Dark Spirit the Forlorn Sister: Anastacia of Astora invades you as Dark Spirit Forlorn Sister (forlorn sister to the other 3 Firekeepers) in The Pit below Fireli… er, Majula. When you beat her she drops The Dingy armor set and the Blood Stained Skirt. “An unassuming dingy armor. Although by now grey with soot and nearly unraveled, its fabric was originally a pure white.”

 

[PandaPedinte]

Does "betwix" has the same meaning of "between"?

Other thing, people is saying that the ending doesn't make too much sense because you go to Dangleic to find a cure to the curse but end sitting on the throne, maybe like the other inhabitants of this place your character start to forget why he went there and end just being used for other purposes.

 

[Ferr986]

in the spanish translation Things betwix is named Enchanted Altar (also, the Looking Glass Knight is still named Mirror Knight).

About Anastacia, I dont see how she could still be alive.

 

[SargerusBR]

About Anastacia, I dont see how she could still be alive.

Flow of time is distorted in Drangleic/Lordran

 

[Punished_Snake]

Does "betwix" has the same meaning of "between"?

Other thing, people is saying that the ending doesn't make too much sense because you go to Dangleic to find a cure to the curse but end sitting on the throne, maybe like the other inhabitants of this place your character start to forget why he went there and end just being used for other purposes.

I like this theory. But shouldn't the player/character be hollowing or in hollow form to start forgetting his purpose or why he is in Majula?

 

[Evil Beaver]

1. Why do the giants have big holes in their heads?

2. The DS1 deities are giants as well too correct? Different species of giant?

 

[B-Dex]

I think a lot of people are reading too much into the size of important NPCs and characters.

Lots of games make important characters huge for emphasis and gameplay. Especially boss characters.

 

[Ferr986]

Flow of time is distorted in Drangleic/Lordran

ok, you got me here

I like this theory. But shouldn't the player/character be hollowing or in hollow form to start forgetting his purpose or why he is in Majula?

Yes, I though people started to forget why they went to Drangleic because they're turning hollow slowly.

 

[burntchomsky]

Really interesting stuff in this thread. Here are my own thoughts on a couple of things:

-I had just assumed that Heide's tower of Flame was the remnants of Anor Londo. Obviously it looks quite a bit different, but a huge amount of time would also have had to pass in order for the sea to have risen to the point it has in the city, so this makes sense. The actual look of the buildings in the city are almost spot-on for the look of Anor Londo buildings, though. My assumption with Dragonslayer was that he was Ornstein, I guess brought back to life somehow (dunno here, but people don't seem to stay dead in DaS), this is at least somewhat merited by the fact that he drops the Leo ring, same ring as first game, except now it is 'old'.

-The ancient dragon that you see in the dragon's memories seems to be an actual dragon...while the ancient dragon that you kill drops a giant soul, which IMO seems to be saying that this is not a legitimate dragon. I liked what someone said earlier in this thread: that perhaps all of the dragons that the player sees in this world are 'copies' of actual dragons, created perhaps by Aldia.

I am hoping that in the next game there is a bit more 'life' to the world. I know that the whole series thrives on this dark atmosphere, but I don't think that you need to have the whole world be literally dead in order to establish this.

 

[Punished_Snake]

ok, you got me here



Yes, I though people started to forget why they went to Drangleic because they're turning hollow slowly.

Our character is undead and cursed but not hollow so he can't forget why he went to Drangleic. But maybe because of the curse (part of the curse), no matter what you do, you are hollowing bit by bit (blacksmith in Majula has green skin (hollowing) ) and that's why our character doesn't remember his purpose.

 

[joe2187]

Does the Dukes Freja have anything to do with Seath? alot of the stuff about the Duke reminded me of Seath, maybe he inherited Seath's library.

Although I wonder if the spiders in tseldora have anything to do with the quelag sisters.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Are we going to have to accept "the flow of time is distorted" for every possible hole? Because if time is truly distorted surely we should see Drangleic in its prime as well as in its current shitty state.

Seems like time is only "distorted" to explain a few NPCs existing that shouldn't.

Also those are some great screens Zandatsu, I'd picked up on the others but didn't notice the statue. Not sure about the elevator though, I guess it's hard to gauge what's intentional linking and what's simple reuse of assets (or if the story is a clever way of lampshading reused assets).

 

[Footos22]

I'm starting to.wonder if the giants originate from what was the broken archstone on demons souls.

 

[NoirVisage]

I had a dream that I found a Ring of weightlessness. It cost 100 souls per second and let me float around a level for quite a while due to recently killing a great soul..

I woke up in tears because it wasn't real.

On topic: The holes in the giants heads..when you go back in time do those giants have holes in their heads? I'm starting to wonder if they were all "made". Like some sort of Homunculus.

 

[SargerusBR]

On topic: The holes in the giants heads..when you go back in time do those giants have holes in their heads?

Yes. Now that you mentioned, the Smelter Demon also has a hole instead of a face...

 

[Guevara]

Yes. Now that you mentioned, the Smelter Demon also has a hole instead of a face...

Pretty much confirms to me that the Smelter Demon is a giant. Which means the Last Giant isn't really the last giant.

One more thing: guess who you see right after both fights? That's right: The Pursuer. I think the Pursuer is supposed to be you, the player. Look at his golf bag of gear: reminds me of only one other entity in the game: the player. So the Pursuer, like you, is trying to kill all the giants. Just a working theory.

 

[TheLetdown]

Subscribing for when the PC release drops.

Things like what this thread has or will have (I scrolled through blindly screaming LA LA LA to keep from spoiling anything) are my favorite parts of the Souls series.

 

[Cruxist]

Alrighty, after finishing 2 NG characters and working on NG+ now, here are my thoughts.

Vendrick:
Acquired the original 4 great souls and used them to build Drangleic. After this, Nashandra showed up to try and abuse his power. She convinced him to attack the giants for a prize. After the giant war, the curse started, and Vendrick and his brother Aldia began doing everything in their power to defeat the curse. After so much time, Vendrick discovered that Nashandra was behind the curse and so he left. During this quest, one of his chosen champions, Velstadt, turned traitor, revealing himself to be corrupted by the dark. He imprisoned Vendrick and separated him from his soul. Until the PC comes through, Velstadt guards Vendricks tomb, ensuring that no one can acquire the soul of the king.

Nashandra:
A piece of Manus, she is the reason the curse begins again. Her desire for the age of dark corrupts most of the population of Drangleic. She corrupts Velstadt and schemes to imprison Vendrick because he doesn't want to continue the cycle by either lighting the flame or ushering in the age of dark.

Shanalotte:
The last firekeeper, but someone also born of dragons. Shanalotte guides the PC to the dragon Aerie, but for what purpose? She works only for herself in an attempt to defy her own fate. Speaks in half-truths, but never straight out lies.

The Duke:
It's pretty clear that either the Duke or Freja is a reincarnation of Seathe. Seathe was known to be searching for immortality. In the first game, its implied he failed, since he was searching primarily for the scales of immortality, the natural way the dragons did it. But it seems he succeeded, just not the way he intended. I'm inclined to think that Freja is actually Seathe and just corrupted Duke Tseldora to let him run amok with his spiders in that area.

 

[ElFly]

Pretty much confirms to me that the Smelter Demon is a giant. Which means the Last Giant isn't really the last giant.

One more thing: guess who you see right after both fights? That's right: The Pursuer. I think the Pursuer is supposed to be you, the player. Look at his golf bag of gear: reminds me of only one other entity in the game: the player. So the Pursuer, like you, is trying to kill all the giants. Just a working theory.

The last giant is the biggest scam.

Not only there is Smelter, but also two giants chilling it up under Black Gulch.

One snag to your Pursuer theory: in NG+, in the throne room of Drangleic castle, you face two pursuers at once. Maybe it represents summoning?

 

[NoirVisage]

One more thing: guess who you see right after both fights? That's right: The Pursuer. I think the Pursuer is supposed to be you, the player. Look at his golf bag of gear: reminds me of only one other entity in the game: the player. So the Pursuer, like you, is trying to kill all the giants. Just a working theory.

oh wow..

 

[Kai Dracon]

I wonder if the Pursuer isn't actually a person but a magical assault unit - hence the glow from the helmet eye slot. Essentially Pursuers are dispatched on various missions with a arsenal of weapons to account for every scenario.

 

[Soriku]

Questions:

1. It's said Vendrick found the essence of the soul or something. What does this mean? What's the essence of the soul?

2. Why did many people who came to Drangleic forget their memories? What drew them to Drangleic in the first place? By extension, what is the area in the intro (it reminded me of Shrine of Amana) and what was up with the whirlpool?

3. What was Nashandra's plan with the giants?

-Moreso that Dark Souls 1, this game really confounds the line between alive, dead, and undead. At first I thought the implication was that everyone in Drangleic got there by dying (dialogue with the Pyromancer, Cale, Creighton, the Blacksmith, and his daughter seem to hint at them all not realizing they died before getting here) but some characters can straight up die, while others are in the process of hollowing. Also there are ghosts, because, uh... hmm.

There's an NPC in the game, I think the crestfallen guy who says he knows you died many times already.

Then the old lady in the beginning saying you'll lose your souls over and over again.

I can't tell if that's just a self-aware jab at the series or something important to the plot.

I wonder if the Pursuer isn't actually a person but a magical assault unit - hence the glow from the helmet eye slot. Essentially Pursuers are dispatched on various missions with a arsenal of weapons to account for every scenario.

Clearly Pursuer is just a futuristic mecha.

 

[Guevara]

The last giant is the biggest scam.

Not only there is Smelter, but also two giants chilling it up under Black Gulch.

One snag to your Pursuer theory: in NG+, in the throne room of Drangleic castle, you face two pursuers at once. Maybe it represents summoning?

Good points.

It's almost like Pursuers are terminators send back in time, and the second pursuer is really just another timeline's version of the original. So it makes sense that your second playthrough (NG+) would have two.

 

[SilverBullet]

I just went back to where you fight the giant spider. I didn't noticed there was a massive dead dragon on the celling lol. Now there is some kind of rock/crystal formation where I picked up the bosses soul.

 

[Guevara]

I just went back to where you fight the giant spider. I didn't noticed there was a massive dead dragon on the celling lol. Now there is some kind of rock/crystal formation where I picked up the bosses soul.

Hint: you can "interact" with it.

 

[Leunam]

Vendrick:
Acquired the original 4 great souls and used them to build Drangleic. After this, Nashandra showed up to try and abuse his power. She convinced him to attack the giants for a prize. After the giant war, the curse started, and Vendrick and his brother Aldia began doing everything in their power to defeat the curse. After so much time, Vendrick discovered that Nashandra was behind the curse and so he left. During this quest, one of his chosen champions, Velstadt, turned traitor, revealing himself to be corrupted by the dark. He imprisoned Vendrick and separated him from his soul. Until the PC comes through, Velstadt guards Vendricks tomb, ensuring that no one can acquire the soul of the king.

Aldia and Vestaldt are brothers, not Aldia and Vendrick. Vestaldts soul I think mentions that after Vendrick ran away, Vestaldt followed him into the crypt to protect his tomb.

 

[Evil Beaver]

Is Heidi's Tower of Flame the remnant Anor Londo?

I think it's the remnants of the Flame God Flan's kingdom, who also happens to be husband of Gwynevere.

As for where Ornstein fits into this scenario...I do not know. No lightning powers but instead dark power. Hmm...

 

[ElFly]

I think it's the remnants of the Flame God Flan's kingdom, who also happens to be husband of Gwynevere.

As for where Ornstein fits into this scenario...I do not know. No lightning powers but instead dark power. Hmm...

Most people believe that Heide is the remnants of Anor Londo, imho it's the simplest explanation, what with the presence of Old Dragonslayer and the Way of Blue.

Some people who took the Flamm/Gwynevere theory too, posit that Ornstein, who in DS1 was charged to guard princess Gwynevere, abandoned Anor Londo along with the couple; the Ornstein in DS1 would either be an illusion or some impostor or maybe the effect of time fuck ups.

 

[Guevara]

Ornstein is so weakened (as compared to Dark Souls 1), and you're right: his powers went from Lightning to Dark.

It's almost like a memory or a ghost of his past self, and now he's just a way to prove your worth to the Guardians. Like a soul memory or something.

 

[ElFly]

Ornstein is so weakened (as compared to Dark Souls 1), and you're right: his powers went from Lightning to Dark.

It's almost like a memory or a ghost of his past self, and now he's just a way to prove your worth to the Guardians. Like a soul memory or something.

Nobody else survived from DS1 to DS2, and I don't see what would make Ornstein any different.

Even if you take the route that DS1 Ornstein is an illusion, DS2 Old Dragonslayer is at best a reincarnated shadow of OG Ornstein.

 

[Robot Pants]

edit: Whoa, this is kinda blowing my mind.

If this ends up being true I'm gonna be even more disappointed than I already am.
So everyone from Dark Souls 1 is just someone else now?
Nashandra = Manus
Rotten = Nito
Sinner = Witch of Izalith
Etc.

That's really lame.

 

[Guevara]

Nobody else survived from DS1 to DS2, and I don't see what would make Ornstein any different.

Even if you take the route that DS1 Ornstein is an illusion, DS2 Old Dragonslayer is at best a reincarnated shadow of OG Ornstein.

I agree. So in short Heide's tower isn't Anor Londo.

Heide's area is weird: why is the boss named Dragonrider? Why is Ornstein there (the old dragonslayer?) What is the tower of flame?

In general: some dragons are actually giants (or have giant souls). But Vendrick and his posse weren't at war with the Dragons obviously.

 

[Ferr986]

If this ends up being true I'm gonna be even more disappointed than I already am.
So everyone from Dark Souls 1 is just someone else now?
Nashandra = Manus
Rotten = Nito
Sinner = Witch of Izalith
Etc.

That's really lame.

I dont think Rotten or Sinner are Nito and the Witch. They just found their souls. Remember that their souls werent consumed, just placed in the Lordvessel.

Nashandra:
A piece of Manus, she is the reason the curse begins again. Her desire for the age of dark corrupts most of the population of Drangleic. She corrupts Velstadt and schemes to imprison Vendrick because he doesn't want to continue the cycle by either lighting the flame or ushering in the age of dark.

Im not convinced that Nashandra broughtt the curse. If Im not mistaken, the curse, that was already present in DS1, would banish either if the player links the fire OR starts the Age of dark. Im kinda rusty about DS1 lore though, so I may be wrong.

 

[SargerusBR]

Aldia and Vestaldt are brothers, not Aldia and Vendrick.

Nope. The description of Aldia's Key pretty much confirms Aldia is Vendrick's brother.

Key used in the mansion of Aldia.
King Vendrick condemned his own elder brother to the mansion.
They both sought the truth, but through different means, and their fervor meant the eventual withering of their familial ties.

 

[Metalingus5150]

Even though the boss says Guardian Dragon, the weapon made from him is the Drakewing Greatsword. So I'm inclined to believe that it is a drake, along with the other dragons in the dragon aerie besides the ancient dragon, who is a giant.

 

[Cruxist]

Im not convinced that Nashandra broughtt the curse. If Im not mistaken, the curse, that was already present in DS1, would banish either if the player links the fire OR starts the Age of dark. Im kinda rusty about DS1 lore though, so I may be wrong.

I think Nashandra is causing the curse, but I could also see her bringing the "dark peace" as hastening the curse. I'm not 100%, but since Nashandra is behind a lot of the evil in the game, I think it makes sense that she is influencing the curse in some way.

 

[Guevara]

Nope. The description of Aldia's Key pretty much confirms Aldia is Vendrick's brother.

Key used in the mansion of Aldia.
King Vendrick condemned his own elder brother to the mansion.
They both sought the truth, but through different means, and their fervor meant the eventual withering of their familial ties.

Aldia, what's his deal? Let's take all the scariest enemies in the game and bring them to my creepy laboratory to study them.

 

[AlphaDragoon]

Also, I don't think the BP with the Dingy set is necessarily Anastacia. I think that's just a way of getting her outfit in the game. Wouldn't the "fourth sister" of the Fire Keepers be the one who guided your character to Drangleic in the opening scene?

 

[XANDER CAGE]

If this ends up being true I'm gonna be even more disappointed than I already am.
So everyone from Dark Souls 1 is just someone else now?
Nashandra = Manus
Rotten = Nito
Sinner = Witch of Izalith
Etc.

That's really lame.

Not even Souls can escape the current ~IT'S A CYCLE~ story trend.

 

[TeddyShardik]

The Duke's dear Freja seems like an obvious allusion to seath, especially with the hollow hanging out in the library after the fight. (Probably said duke.)

What's interesting to me though is that unlike the other great soul boss fights you do not get the "Great Souls Embraced" message the moment you defeat the boss. You have to go to the spot under the dragon head and collect this red glowing thing.
So basically I think Freja is not the great demon here but only the guardian of this great soul.

 

[J-Roderton]

People have said there could just be more than one altars of sunlight and the one is DS2 is just another one. But the rubble is in the exact same shape entirely.

 

[Vlade]

Yes. Now that you mentioned, the Smelter Demon also has a hole instead of a face...

I've been calling it a 'fanus', for face anus.

 

[Clevinger]

If this ends up being true I'm gonna be even more disappointed than I already am.
So everyone from Dark Souls 1 is just someone else now?
Nashandra = Manus
Rotten = Nito
Sinner = Witch of Izalith
Etc.

That's really lame.

I don't think so. Manus and Seathe are, the rest aren't.

 

[TeddyShardik]

People have said there could just be more than one altars of sunlight and the one is DS2 is just another one. But the rubble is in the exact same shape entirely.

That's where my usual problem kicks in : Is this just reusing an asset or does it really mean anything. Same with the "familiar" npc invaders. I can't decide if they're just there as a throwback to DS1 or not. >.<

 

[J-Roderton]

That's where my usual problem kicks in : Is this just reusing an asset or does it really mean anything. Same with the "familiar" npc invaders. I can't decide if they're just there as a throwback to DS1 or not. >.<

I want to believe they're not just reusing things, but that does make a little sense. :/ I have a headache.

 

[Hystzen]

The Duke's dear Freja seems like an obvious allusion to seath, especially with the hollow hanging out in the library after the fight. (Probably said duke.)

What's interesting to me though is that unlike the other great soul boss fights you do not get the "Great Souls Embraced" message the moment you defeat the boss. You have to go to the spot under the dragon head and collect this red glowing thing.
So basically I think Freja is not the great demon here but only the guardian of this great soul.

The sprite used for the soul item in the inventory is the normal weak boss sprite. It not dark like later bosses or the huge fireball style great soul.

 

[Guevara]

What's interesting to me though is that unlike the other great soul boss fights you do not get the "Great Souls Embraced" message the moment you defeat the boss. You have to go to the spot under the dragon head and collect this red glowing thing.
So basically I think Freja is not the great demon here but only the guardian of this great soul.

That's interesting, good find.

 

[ElFly]

Im not convinced that Nashandra broughtt the curse. If Im not mistaken, the curse, that was already present in DS1, would banish either if the player links the fire OR starts the Age of dark. Im kinda rusty about DS1 lore though, so I may be wrong.

If you become the dark lord, the curse ends because the age of dark (and humanity) begins.

Linking the fire only meant keeping the curse at bay; without Gwyn Lord of Cinder, Lordran would have entered the age of dark sooner.

I agree. So in short Heide's tower isn't Anor Londo.

Heide's area is weird: why is the boss named Dragonrider? Why is Ornstein there (the old dragonslayer?) What is the tower of flame?

In general: some dragons are actually giants (or have giant souls). But Vendrick and his posse weren't at war with the Dragons obviously.

Well Old Dragonslayer and Dragonrider are in opposite ends of the town. Also, Dragonrider isn't riding a dragon.

So I assume Old Dragonslayer slayed Dragonrider's dragon and both aren't on speaking terms.

About dragons being giants: only Ancient Dragon has a Giant Soul; the rest are probably just uppity drakes.

The Duke's dear Freja seems like an obvious allusion to seath, especially with the hollow hanging out in the library after the fight. (Probably said duke.)

What's interesting to me though is that unlike the other great soul boss fights you do not get the "Great Souls Embraced" message the moment you defeat the boss. You have to go to the spot under the dragon head and collect this red glowing thing.
So basically I think Freja is not the great demon here but only the guardian of this great soul.

It's weird that Seath's soul wasn't taken by someone else, unlike the other three souls. Which means that the guy in the little office under Freya is just a regular ass duke, not Seath or his reincarnation.

 

[NoirVisage]

If you become the dark lord, the curse ends because the age of dark (and humanity) begins.

Linking the fire only meant keeping the curse at bay; without Gwyn Lord of Cinder, Lordran would have entered the age of dark sooner.



Well Old Dragonslayer and Dragonrider are in opposite ends of the town. Also, Dragonrider isn't riding a dragon.

So I assume Old Dragonslayer slayed Dragonrider's dragon and both aren't on speaking terms.

About dragons being giants: only Ancient Dragon has a Giant Soul; the rest are probably just uppity drakes.



It's weird that Seath's soul wasn't taken by someone else, unlike the other three souls. Which means that the guy in the little office under Freya is just a regular ass duke, not Seath or his reincarnation.

its a Giant Soul, not soul of a giant!

 

[Atilac]

Couldn't vendrick be the main character from ds1? Last giant might refer to the last standing giant before they all were defeated.