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[SolidSnakex]

There's a clear trend in sales data after RE2 release. RE3 and CV (the ones that weren't exclusive to GC) each have sold considerably worse than the previous installment.

..and then RE5 comes around and doubles or even triples the sales of classic RE titles.

Am I really having this discussion right now?

RE6 has sold sold less than RE5, so should that mean that Capcom should look into completely changing the formula? RE3 was widely viewed as not being as good as RE2, so it's not at all surprising that it didn't sell as well. And Code Veronica was initially a Dreamcast exclusive. That's the really unfair part of judging the performance of traditional RE games. RE3 was the last traditional RE made with the PS platform in mind. And that's an important note because PS platforms were by far the most popular at the time when the traditional RE's were still being made.

So, we really don't have a good idea of how a traditional RE would've done had the series stayed on the most popular platform. For example, the remake of Resident Evil on the Gamecube sold 1.3m copies while the much hyped and beloved RE4 sold 1.6m on the same platform. That's not much of a gap. The way that Capcom moved RE around in terms of platforms is one of the most mind-boggling decisions. I guess Mikami had full control over the series, and his dislike of the PS2 was well known.

I think nostalgia makes people think the retro RE's were good by today's standards. The controls were awkward, the writing was laughably bad, and the visuals aged poorly. Silent Hill has been a better horror story every step of the way, while RE has had the better gameplay.

The controls were awkward, but they worked within the rest of the limitations of the game. It's not like they ever put you in an unfair situation where you felt overwhelmed because of the controls. The game was designed around them. With that said, I don't think that they need tank controls if they were to make a game that was more in line with the classic series. They certainly could and I wouldn't mind, but there's no reason why it'd be required.

As far as the writing goes, do you consider the writing in the current games to really be so much better than they were in the old games? If anything they were better back then because there wasn't so much insane shit going on in it.

The Evil Within is a good example of the insane places RE would have to go in order to hold up as a horror title. At which point it stops being RE and more Silent Hill.

TEW really doesn't sound anything like SH. There have already been action sequences described that are nothing like you'd see in SH games. And even if that were what it'd be come, i'd say that's a far better option than what it has become, which is nothing more than an action game in a horror skin.

 

[Audette]

I haven't actually read any of this post yet, just had this thought wants to add it.

resident evil doesn't need to return to its roots.
BUT, only in a mainstream release.

Resident Evil as a brand with mainstream focus should focus on its re4 style, skill based, action, survival shooter success.

but as side projects....

They should make smaller classic retro titles! they wouldn't steal from the success of the main line games, and would likely sell a ton to classic fans.

Making retro titles shouldn't become the focus of the main line of any brand, but putting time aside to show those who love your classic eras of gaming (in long running series),nods to why they like the series, is an honourable thing to do.

 

[trinest]

It needs to be more like the movies and not take itself seriously but still be grounded, sort of like a Saints Row of Horror.

 

[big_z]

It would be nice to have the agility of RE6 in a re1, low ammo survival situation. Kind of like a horror version of dark souls where skills an rational thinking factor into your ability to survive. It would help bring the tension and survival horror aspect back along with the scares.

The characters and lore all needs to be dumped into the trash can though. Full reboot is needed there.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Back to roots? Not necessarily. I don't need tank controls, typewriter ribbons, "Eagle Crests" and crap.

But it can't be more generic action-movie TPS with monsters. It's just not interesting.

I vote for attempting a legitimate horror game, with some elements of item conservation, but in a way that adheres to the expectations of modern games.

i think some things can be learned from last of us.item management and stuff.

 

[RoadHazard]

Its.

 

[LegionAgent]

In my opinion Resident Evil should do some kind of mash-up (don't know if it's the correct word) between old and new, let me explain myself, imagine it's the last resident evil, evil corporation is cornered and the heroes must infiltrate their last secret base which is overrun by monsters (it could be a massive underground base) and as they know what they'll have to fight they go in equiping all of ther guns (cause after 6 games you surely realize that a 9mm is just not going to cut it), boom, there you have the action, but here's the catch, ammo would be really, really rare on the base, like, REALLY, no dropping from zombies and stuff, that would make it much more realistic cause even if you start with your magnum, shotgun, etc. the low ammount of ammo throught the entire game would force you to think twice, even when facing bosses (hazards would play a big role, but not enough to make it super easy), imagine wasting all your magnum's ammo on the first half of the game, yeah, you're screwed, it would also make you use more of the melee mechanics they added on R6 (again, hazards, bash a zombie's head against a wall, profit)
Another idea that in my opinion would works is, instead of going for multiple campaings go for one really long one, with multiple protagonists inside that you switch in real time a la GTA V so you can solve puzzles and other sheannaningans (it could work for solo as well as co-op)

 

[Zebetite]

I think it's less a thing of "ooh look at our SPOOKY environments and SCARY ZOMBIES" and more about maintaining a particular tension in the gameplay. Like, look at Leon's campaign in RE6. It's the one that somehow gets singled out as being "like old RE games" but it's far and away the worst of the lot because it's missing the single most important element of those games (tension) while also failing to deliver at least a serviceable action game like the rest of the campaigns.

Stuff like resource management, needing to choose your shots carefully, needing to avoid combat when the going is tough. All of these elements were present in RE4 and it's why that game is a masterpiece despite going in an "action-y" direction, and the fact that RE5 and especially 6 lacked that "tension" is why they're lesser RE games in my eyes.

As long as the series continues to be "Shoot-All-The-Dudes-Macho-Power-Fantasy" in its gameplay, it doesnt matter how many dark environments, grotesque enemies, flickering lightbulbs and cawwing crows you toss into the game, it's still going to be a bad Resident Evil game.

 

[Silky]

Seriously, you need a definition?

What do you consider to be a 'scary' experience in a video game.

i think some things can be learned from last of us.item management and stuff.

RE4/5 has better item management than TLoU

 

[Ninjimbo]

I'm of the opinion that REmake perfected the formula and there's no need to go back to it unless someone has a great idea. RE0 was a follow-up in that mold and a lot of people despised that game (I liked it though) for being rote.

So I don't think it should go back to its 'roots'. Actually, I'm not even entirely sure what that means since RE has always been about fighting off crazy looking biological atrocities just as much as it was about being creepy and spooky. Keep in mind that we were fighting giant anacondas, Hunters, Titan, and mutated dogs in the first RE on top of all the zombies. And last I checked, we're still finding new ways to dispatch monsters in the new REs.

 

[RedSwirl]

Thinking about this a little more, I don't know how a "true survival horror" like the old RE games would feel with today's interfaces and controls, and I do think a "back to its roots" game should have that.

The reason we got RE4 in the first place is because the old formula had gotten stale. By RE0 Mikami felt he couldn't do anything with that formula anymore, so he flipped it on its head. It would have been nice if we'd gotten something that was still like a horror adventure game where you actually explore an environment, but with better controls. I think tank controls and fixed camera angles need to stay dead as far as action games are concerned. It is possible to make a game tense and scary without intentionally gimping the controls and the player's vision. They would have to just design environments and balance enemies differently.

I love the gameplay in RE6, it's one of the best you'll find in a TPS. The problem is that the campaign is very poorly designed, riddled with atrocious QTE's, hilariously bad vehicle sections, constant interruptions for loading screens when most games these days do everything seamlessly, etc.

I don't want them to drop this gameplay system but on the other hand I don't think it fits the type of campaign I want from a RE game. For me the solution would be to keep this gameplay for mercenaries where it truly shines and use a more traditional system for the campaign which should have a slower pace and shift the focus away from action.
Jill's levels in Revelations were going in the right direction for me.

The story needs a reboot though, it's a mess.
They should make Claire the protagonist since she wasn't involved in the mess of the last few games and start fresh with a new story arc. Not pretend that the previous games didn't happen but just mention them as little as possible and focus on a new story thread.

This is ultimately how I feel about RE6. I think its core gameplay systems have a lot of potential and feel like a good evolution of RE4 once you actually learn how to use them properly. Unfortunately, RE6 drags them down with shitty level design and too much western AAA cinematic hand-holding bullshit.

And I also think it should be Claire's turn again next time. She hasn't been in a main game since Code Veronica.

 

[conman]

The reason we got RE4 in the first place is because the old formula had gotten stale.

Indeed. And the formula has gotten stale again. Rather than revising or fixing RE4, 5, or 6, the series needs a total reimagining. It isn't a matter of polish, improvement, or revision.

And IMO this is emblematic of what is wrong with Japanese development more broadly. Unlike the big American, Canadian, and European studios, the former powerhouse Japanese devs don't have the money to just throw cash at a stale series in order to make it work. They need imagination.

 

[Zoned]

Slightly off topic but can someone tell me what Resident Evil was it where the phone keeps ringing in a phone booth and then you encounter mutated dogs?

 

[Yasae]

The original Silent Hill had tank controls and its sequel had the option for tank controls. Let's not forget this ever again.

EDIT: So now on to the main point. RE4 was not an evolution or a savior, it was a complete and utter genre switch. It didn't really take many of the features which made the series unique and implement them in a discretionary manner. It just threw everything out. RE4 is a very good game for what it is but I've grown very, very weary of hearing it called the ONE and ONLY possible scenario RE could have navigated towards. That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Syphon Filter]

I'm of the opinion that REmake perfected the formula and there's no need to go back to it unless someone has a great idea. RE0 was a follow-up in that mold and a lot of people despised that game (I liked it though) for being rote.

So I don't think it should go back to its 'roots'. Actually, I'm not even entirely sure what that means since RE has always been about fighting off crazy looking biological atrocities just as much as it was about being creepy and spooky. Keep in mind that we were fighting giant anacondas, Hunters, Titan, and mutated dogs in the first RE on top of all the zombies. And last I checked, we're still finding new ways to dispatch monsters in the new REs.

what they need is some elements like have backtracking,challenging puzzles, ammo is scarce.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I have to agree that the series really doesn't need to go back to Survival Horror or back to any of it's roots. I'll take a RE game that knows what it wants to be rather than some half ass effort like Leons opening RE6 sections and Revelations. Not saying I am against the idea of perhaps going back to more atmosphere and tone. But they need to step up how they present it compared to those 2 games.

 

[Forgottonone]

Both 5 and 6 and great games. 6 is probably the greatest TPS of last gen.

No One here is saying they are bad games. When resident evil came out everyone was talking about it. whether they bought it saw it a friends house or even just heard about it. It was unique and one of a kind and really got peoples attention not sales but a whole lot of interest in the soon to be huge franchise. I just don't like to see stuff dragged through the mud so long that it's completely mutilated and unrecognizable. That all said though by all means 5 and 6 are great games no denying that, is it what everyone is talking about? No.. Is it selling greatly? Yes.. No denying the series and name really can hold a lot to a game with no real identity. This is all just quantum game talk.. I am 100 percent right and 100 percent wrong at the same time

 

[Z0mbicide]

I think the solution is rather simple, and I can boil it down to an easy to understand formula:

Resident Evil 0/ Remake (Graphics) + item randomization + *contemporary version of RE Outbreak style multiplayer + New game Raid mode from RE: Revelations = New RE Game that can make both traditional and contemporary RE fans happy.

It's harder to see how deluded the RE franchise has become since it's so bloated with titles that each have their own fans. The best comparison I can make is the Dead Space franchise. Look how quick the transition was (a mere trilogy of games) before the establishing features of the franchise were pulverized to dust. It's the same with the RE franchise except each subsequent iteration pulled fans in another direction. We do need to trim the fat a little, I just don't think Capcom is capable of it anymore. They've outsourced or lost of their talent.

Let's face it, we live in the world where pseudo-Mega Man, Mighty No. 9 has to exist versus an ACTUAL Mega Man title. Capcom is in trouble, and the RE franchise isn't the only case to make.

 

[Into]

While I did enjoy the original trilogy of RE games, I think it was necessary for Resident Evil to evolve itself to what we've seen in RE4

Then i cannot convince you otherwise, but i will take this quote you said:

I get the feeling that a lot of people would rather have the RE series be a restricting adventure game much like the first two titles (yes, I think RE1 and 2 are very restricting in terms of exploration and combat).

It was not restricting at all. The classic games never made you feel like you were playing through a bunch of linear "stages", the game almost felt open world, almost like a Metroidvania, in that every new item/event would trigger the world to slightly change. That corridor that was safe before, may not be safe anymore, that key will unlock a new room/area that triggers something else.

This made the player very paranoid, even after visiting the same place for the 9th time, because the game makes sure to send the message that the environment is in control, not you. The paranoia is quadrupled by the strange camera angles, that almost feel like you are being watched, the eerie music etc. The classic games make you feel something. The newer ones are just games. I dont feel anything really, other than the satisfaction of landing a head shot and seeing it pop.

RE4 and beyond was just a bunch of sleek stages for you to shoot through, no different than any other "video gamey" stage that came before it. Classic RE is unique, no hud, no "stages", all of this made the games feel very unconventional, unpredictable and very exciting. RE4 and beyond is video games 101.

And because RE4 and beyond is so video gamey, it does not allow your mind to even entertain the idea of exploring these environments, or take them seriously. That badass enemy with the chainsaw is just a guy who drops X and Y item and some coin. His badassery is lost when you see a gigantic blue/yellow/green light come out of his corpse

The zombies and other experiments that went horrible wrong in classic RE, were people who often left notes, scientists in RE1, ordinary civilians in RE2 and RE3 etc. If you want to talk about "explore" think of it in broader terms, RE1-3 tried to present its concept in a broader sense, RE4 and beyond are just video game, with a comical "save the presidents daughter!" premise. The satisfaction of exploring in classic RE, would reveal notes, new art and more info in regards to what happened. Exploration in RE4 and beyond results in a jewel piece you can sell, or a chest with money, this adds nothing to experience, its just monetary rewards.


Anyway i could write a (terrible) book about RE and RE4 and beyond and the various differences. I enjoy RE4, and see it as one of the best games in recent times, in terms of just playing it, its very fun, but all that came at the expensive of so many other things.

 

[grandwizard]

Evolving is copying every other shooter?

I don't get this at all. What shooters are they copying? Can you really name ANY other third person shooters that play like RE5 or 6?

If there is any other shooter that has the player agility, melee system, counter attacks for almost every enemy move, stun system and sheer enemy variety (in both appearance and how they effect gameplay) with the overall feel of RE6 then I really want to know about it.

 

[G-Fex]

I also agree that the series doesn't need to return to it's roots. The REmake was great and did justice to surpass the quality of the first game (except for the voice acting which couldn't be replaced) .

6 has gained it's GREAT gameplay mechanics which surpass that of RE4 or 5. It is obvious it needs to continue from there using those same great mechanics.

The only things it has to fix is probably a lot less scripted sequences and cut scenes as well as the travesty that is the storyline.

Besides that they're onto something good from 6.

I don't want horror elements anymore, if it was implemented now a days it'd just be something pandering to people who like that damn amnesia or outlast game.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

RE's major problem, outside of the Michael Bay-ification of the gameplay, is the storyline itself.

It should have never gotten as complicated, byzantine, ridiculous as it got by RE3. Hell, 2 was probably pushing it.

There's no need to layer a ton of plot on a game about surviving a zombie apocalypse, and there's nothing added to that particular genre via RE's plot vomitus, either. It's knotty stupidity for the sake of it, and you couple that with gameplay that feels less like a game and more like a (kinda) playable action movie, people are going to be like "fuck this."

 

[G-Fex]

Viable reason I don't like 3, the storyline. Then Code Veronica pretty much pinned down the shark to press A to jump over it.

it just turned into the formula of here's a location, there's a outbreak again.

 

[sacrificengineer]

Slightly off topic but can someone tell me what Resident Evil was it where the phone keeps ringing in a phone booth and then you encounter mutated dogs?

Gun Survivor?

 

[Lernaean]

I pretty much agree with OP.
If returning to it's roots means tank controls, item boxes and ink ribbons then i wouldn't want it too (i'd still buy and enjoy it though >.< ).

There was a thread on ink ribbons here yesterday actually and i posted this: (quoting here so i don't have to type all this again)

I believe that the melee mechanic (in 6) was great, it was executed nice but not good enough to make an impact. I'd like to see more player input on melee next time. I mean there were always melee moments in RE, right from the first one and Remake, where you could have a dagger and use it if you are caught. It was an action you could use if met with certain prerequisites, and i don't know why now that tech allows it we can't as players be able to do it on our free will. I think a re imagined melee mechanic for pushing aside, countering, sticking a knife in the head, elbowing, kicking away etc could work great and add to the survival horror element (what if ammo was so scarce you had to conserve it and kill mobs with neck snapping for example).

I'm ok with save points or just checkpoints, but not typewriters. They worked fine for a while but not as the series progressed, i also don't like item boxes. It doesn't make sense to have your items stored in Paris and then open the London box to take the missile launcher out, it's just silly. I'd prefer a space limit so you'd actually have to make a decision whether you want to keep something or replace it (in the case of a backtracking game maybe even leave it on the ground and have the ability to return and pick it up?).

i'd like to see a game with the budget of 6 and the atmosphere of Revelations, taking place in one big location, like an underground research facility for instance, maybe with backtracking, key finding to open previous areas and zombie management (burning, containment in a room you may never visit again etc).
Also in a scenario like this you could have save points, like accessing a terminal to save for example.

And also there's always this:

I want Lost in Nightmares 2. It's the best blend of action RE and puzzles/exploration RE yet.

There are great examples where modern RE games get the atmosphere right and have a good and balanced blend of exploration and story elements with gunfight. It does not need another clone like 5 which was 4 with an African theme and story elements happening in succession the same way they happened in 4, or another 6, which i loved but was bloated beyond recognition at times.
A good structured, tight, horror game, with resource control and proper action when it's needed is something that i believe today's Capcom can do. Let's hope they have the common sense and do all that.

 

[Auto-Reply]

I lost all interest in Resident Evil after 5, not because i hated 5 ... i liked it!

I've not played 6 yet and probably never will, i don't even know exactly what it was that made me lose all interest... was it the bad reputation? Most likely! But i feel like Resident Evil has become a cluttered mess regarding the storyline and what happens in the games. There was something about that lone mansion and the secret laboratory hidden beneath it. What followed was the discovery that the whole town was a like this mansion and it didn't seem to be too far out there to not make sense.

While i really liked RE4, i did not get why the presidents daughter was kidnapped by a spanish cult and why they send one dude to look for her and what it all has to do with Umbrella and Resident Evil. 5 was in some way a return to form (Story) despite not being as good of a game overall than 4 was. Now i don't know whats going on anymore in that world and i don't know if i really want to know either... also, the movies did a number on me, i fucking loathe them.

 

[Seyavesh]

man i have like a million posts about this so im just gonna copy/paste since it's how i feel. bolded for overall belief, i guess

I feel like there's a serious "no true scotsman" issue for people's taste in RE games. It's covered such a wide fanbase that the preferences of players are radically different. Everyone wants to return to some "roots" because RE6 was pretty bad.

I like the game, but it's true. There are actually interesting and good aspects to it, but it still fails on several basic design levels. From basic player feedback on enemy damage to simple boss design.

The only thing that I can really ascribe to RE in terms of what people expect beyond "some absolutely insane plot/bosses" is quality. Which RE6 failed at, unfortunately.

Every mainline RE has had some form of "quality" to it that ultimately attracted more fans, regardless of how different each "generation" of RE has been just by the sheer quality of the game in it's totality.

Everything else is up for grabs- people's preferences are the only thing deciding what they believe a "fix to the franchise" will be- and even then, there's still plenty of focus on the wrong subjects. Changing the style of gameplay back to tank controls, focusing more on the horror aspect or whatever is ultimately meaningless because it doesn't bring the defining factor of the games- quality.

The thing is that to me, the cruise ship in RE:R felt really linear- like something more in the vein of RE3/2 rather than RE1 where you can sort-of explore but there's not much reason to and the best path is to always move forward.

The modern REs definitely seemed to be an expansion on that 2/3 progression (by simplifying it into chapter segments so you are flat out always moving forward) rather than 1's progression, so I was really wondering if that RE1 style was workable. I guess LiN was kinda a failed experiment (or non-experiment, maybe) on the gameplay implementation side in terms of exploring that, which is a shame to hear.

Moving edit to new post: I feel like folks need to clarify what they mean by 'horror'- I feel like Resident Evil has never been 'scary' in any major way, like the Siren, SH, Fatal Frame series are- but rather, 'tense', if that makes sense? There's an 'action horror' aspect to them where you're fighting for your life rather than being chased by supernatural, unbeatable forces. Your character isn't a victim, effectively- they're the hero, fighting 'horrific' things, rather than someone who's powerless and at the mercy of whatever the opposing force is.

There is an aspect of horror but I feel as if goal of the series is to have satisfying gameplay that creates that special kind of tension that's inbetween action movie and horror movie tension (Along the lines of Aliens? Can't think of an example). Less 'this game will make you have nightmares oh no!!' and more 'this was a good game that made me feel tense and dang those things are creepy/scary good thing I shot them with a gun/nuked them/rpged them'. The Evil Within definitely seems to be exploring this aspect too, and it seems a lot of people are dissapointed with that when I think that has always been Shinji Mikami's goal for these modern style 'RE'/RE-toned games.

Capcom's strategy (I swear I read this somewhere, maybe I'm wrong) of having their numbered Resident Evil be action games while spinoffs are horror games is a great way to go, but I think Newsbot is kinda spot-on about the melee system. Currently, melee is the absolute star of modern Resident Evil in terms of gameplay and what is iconic about it- but it detracts from the horror aspect strictly because the character/player becomes empowered in a major way. It was absolutely specifically designed that way too, to act as a catharsis to the tension of the somewhat 'clunky' gunplay- which is great in an action game, but not too great in a survival/horror game.

I really wonder if there's a way to create a kind of tension/catharsis balance with melee attacks/finisher attacks that still maintains the survival horror tone while not compromising gameplay. I feel like Revelations was specifically designed with this in mind (alongside the system limitations of the 3DS) so it somewhat works out with the scarcity of ammunition, harder stuns and weaker melee attacks but at the same time I feel as if the gameplay in it is actually massively unsatisfying for the same reason- the gunplay feels weak and enemies feel like 'bullet sponges' that you have to tediously kill to proceed.

 

[funkypie]

I thought it was quite sad when they announced re would be on Nintendo consoles only. Why did he hate the PS2? Obviously unit sales made them change their minds.

 

[petran79]

New Resident Evil games didnt reach yet the mediocrity of Silent Hill, but still.....

also newer Alone in the Dark games were bad too.

that recipe was pure 90s...

 

[ShutEye]

Based on recent output I think it's far fetched to assume that Capcom could produce a quality game in either the classic or contemporary styles of RE.

That said, assuming Capcom could make a good RE game, why don't they just do both?
Classic style download game for $15 on XBLA/Steam/PSN etc..., RE7 evolving from RE4+ . Problem solved. Fans happy. Designers can experiment with 2 different styles. RE2 can eventually be updated to the new Classic engine.

Honestly a lot of PSX era brands could probably use this model. Tomb Raider seemed successful in doing this.

 

[Xpliskin]

Speaking of which, what's capcom waiting for to release the old REs on steam

 

[Brakke]

I don't think Resident Evil needs to return. I don't trust anyone at Capcom understands what was good about it.

 

[RedSwirl]

Also, I don't like Capcom's apparent need to turn Resident Evil into an online game.

The major things I didn't like about RE5 and 6 is that they were primarily designed as co-op games with singleplayer being secondary. If you're going to do that, try to be as good as Left 4 Dead, and I can tell you RE5 and 6 aren't as good as Left 4 Dead. And as big as they made RE6, with three main campaigns, Capcom could have afforded to make one of them singleplayer (a short secret unlockable campaign doesn't count).

 

[encephalon]

"Evolve" implies RE4 built off of the older games. This is not the case. The series is now made up of two entirely different types of games and the best Capcom could do is to attempt throwbacks that incorporate the innovations that are no longer relevant.

 

[Nemmy]

Also, I don't like Capcom's apparent need to turn Resident Evil into an online game.

The major things I didn't like about RE5 and 6 is that they were primarily designed as co-op games with singleplayer being secondary. If you're going to do that, try to be as good as Left 4 Dead, and I can tell you RE5 and 6 aren't as good as Left 4 Dead. And as big as they made RE6, with three main campaigns, Capcom could have afforded to make one of them singleplayer (a short secret unlockable campaign doesn't count).

I still think the main problem with RE6 was that is was so big. If all the actual talent and effort that occasionally shine through its bloat went into one 8 or so hours long campaign, it would probably end up far better overall, filled with actually meaningful content.

And yeah, like I said before, co-op kills tension in modern REs. How is the player supposed to feel intimidated if someone is watching their back 90% of the time?

 

[Teknoman]

If they do look to older RE titles, I think they should take inspiration from 2,3, and 4.

If they are going to take inspiration from 1, do it from the REmake Gamecube version. Playing through 1 on Sega Saturn (i've never played / beaten the original). And some of the areas as Chris are a little harder than they need to be / involve much more trial and error.

 

[RedSwirl]

I still think the main problem with RE6 was that is was so big. If all the actual talent and effort that occasionally shine through its bloat went into one 8 or so hours long campaign, it would probably end up far better overall, filled with actually meaningful content.

And yeah, like I said before, co-op kills tension in modern REs. How is the player supposed to feel intimidated if someone is watching their back 90% of the time?

Definitely. RE6 got too big for its own good, like so many other games these days that try to capture the Call of Duty or Halo formula. Games like that feel amazing when they manage to nail so much content between singleplayer, multiplayer, and other modes, but every game can't nail that kind of package. Every freaking Ubisoft game today has the same problem. Resident Evil shouldn't be trying, but I guess Capcom feels like RE is its main action shooter franchise now.

I also agree with the part about "actual talent and effort that occasionally shine through its bloat." Trough certain parts of RE6, what I've seen of Dragon's Dogma, and what I've played of Monster Hunter, there are definitely still people at Capcom who can design video games.

 

[Jawmuncher]

If Capcom ever wanted to kill two birds with one stone, I say they need to make a new Outbreak game. You can keep the controls of RE6 and such there, but since you're playing as civilians it would make sense to keep low ammo and keep the tension up. Still amazes me we still have no game like Outbreak all these years later.

Speaking of which, what's capcom waiting for to release the old REs on steam

I ask myself the same thing. Especially since they all have PC ports and new ones that were done for Windows XP. Which I would think would be easy to get working on Steam.

 

[King Boo]

my memory is fuzzy, but i think code veronica and re1 were pretty scary because i always had so little ammo. same with the outbreak games. most of the time i just ran away. so i like that, and the melee system in re6. so i guess a balance between those two would be nice

 

[Tain]

The Biohazard 4 series is doing great, going by 6, and I hope they keep building on it.

The older games are great, too, of course, but I'm not excited to give up another iteration on the 4 series for that.

 

[Jawmuncher]

my memory is fuzzy, but i think code veronica and re1 were pretty scary because i always had so little ammo. same with the outbreak games. most of the time i just ran away. so i like that, and the melee system in re6. so i guess a balance between those two would be nice

Capcom said they were looking at TLoU as influence for RE7 so we'll see what that means. Since that is a mix of action and scavenging. If Capcom really wanted to I'm sure they could put together something that could appease both. Plus still keep mercs mode fun and the like.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

So, create better horror by not having many of the aspect that create horror? A non fluid control system that takes some mastery, lack of incentive to survive by lost progress and lack of necessity to back track and complete tasks,.passing through unknown threats using the limited resources that you have?

Pefect example. Resident Evil 2, Leons campaign. You need to pass through the police station to gain access to the sewers and mechanical plant using your newly acquired items. Problems are as you pass through a key area, zombies enter two crucial corridors through the broken windows if you were stupid enough not to lock one of the two.

I would argue that these are key to horror game. People don't react with precision when theyre scared. Its a reason why those tank controls are necessary in building tension and fear. When being pursued by aggressors, you don't suddenly run in a perfect manner and engage with precise aiming. Youre likely to miss the target, your movements are going to be rigid and untight. You might even slip or fall over.

Jeez man.

On topic, a lot of us arent going to consider coming back to the franchise unless it returns too its roots.

I really don't understand this. Using your logic, Amnesia would be scarier if it controlled like System Shock, because clunk = scary, right?

There are better ways to accomplish these than through cheesy ploys like tank controls and ink ribbons. Games like ZombiU give you an incentive to survive by holding your gear hostage as opposed limiting the amount of times you can save, and are better off for it. Games like Amnesia limit what the player can see without yanking camera control away, and create tension by putting the player in horrifying scenarios as opposed to having monsters slowly shamble towards the player and they can't do anything about it because they control like a slug, and are better off for it. Fatal Frame had a solid combat first-person combat system as opposed to some crappy auto-aim system, and was better off for it.

The worst thing about horror fans is that they believe that gaming has evolved so little that the only way to create horror is to resort to clunky, archaic design choices that were created to bypass hardware limitations.

 

[Riposte]

There's no need to layer a ton of plot on a game about surviving a zombie apocalypse, and there's nothing added to that particular genre via RE's plot vomitus, either. It's knotty stupidity for the sake of it, and you couple that with gameplay that feels less like a game and more like a (kinda) playable action movie, people are going to be like "fuck this."

How does RE6 feel less like a game? It has one of the most complex TPS combat systems ever. What am I even reading?

EDIT: Only the movies have ever been about a zombie apocalypse. That makes the games more interesting to me in itself.

Capcom said they were looking at TLoU as influence for RE7 so we'll see what that means. Since that is a mix of action and scavenging. If Capcom really wanted to I'm sure they could put together something that could appease both. Plus still keep mercs mode fun and the like.

I thought scavenging in TLOU could be quite a drag. Funny enough, I thought health scarcity was handled better in RE6. The other elements like combat, enemies, etc., are also in RE6's favor (especially enemies, TLOU really blew it there), and while TLOU had better stealth, by the end I really wanted those encounters just to be over with. RE6 is pretty unique and has a lot of potential behind whatever flaws, so I don't know if TLOU would be a positive influence.

 

[grandwizard]

I thought scavenging in TLOU could be quite a drag. Funny enough, I thought health scarcity was handled better in RE6. The other elements like combat, enemies, etc., are also in RE6's favor (especially enemies, TLOU really blew it there), and while TLOU had better stealth, by the end I really wanted those encounters just to be over with. RE6 is pretty unique and has a lot of potential behind whatever flaws, so I don't know if TLOU would be a positive influence.

Completely agree about the enemies complaint. Once TLOU breaks out into a gunfight, it is very basic. You basically have about 3 enemy types to fight most of which just sit behind cover taking potshots like any other cover based shooter, with the occasional guy running at you for a melee fight (similar to Uncharted 3). I don't get how this entertains people so much. Thematically it makes sense for them not to have tons of enemy types like an RE game, but it just gets boring gameplay wise and that is the ultimate sin for a video game.

 

[Sadist]

I don't think returning to it's roots means going back to the old classic formula.

What I do think it means (I'm kind of in the same boat as the folks who RE returning to it's roots) is that I/others don't care that much for the current direction of the Resident Evil series. I know fans of the original games bemoan the changes which were introduced in RE 4, but it still had one key element which I loved about the series: this constant, tense feeling while venturing through the area. When I played that game for the first time, you just had this uneasy feeling that at any second something could attack you from out of nowhere. And that feeling never disappeared during the entire game. I absolutely loved that. Next to the insane pacing ofcourse. That was close to perfection.

But that tense feeling... it was just there all the time. Even if Leon had some great weapons on him, fighting of the Las Plagas was pretty challenging. Even more so with enemies like the Regenerators or other creepers.

And when RE 5 was introduced, all of that was gone. At first you played a carbon copy of RE 4 with the village and as the game progressed it turned into a "okayis" third person shooter. It tried to mimic RE 4's direction, but it kind of failed because Capcom made it a game that should be enjoyed by two players at the same time. Which is a shame, because for fans of the series it's one hell of an adjustment to see the former singleplayer franchise turning into a co-op fest. Gone was all the tension, pacing and more importantly; I kinda felt safe with all of those weapons. RE6 is another beast. But I feel we've discussed that one to death. The game was just too big in scope, convulted and the four chapters in the game qualitywise were extremely weird. I still can't believe Capcom went ahead with the Chris/Piers campaign. It was horrendously bad.

Revelations was pretty good by the way. Had some silly design choices in the costume department (right Rachel?) and the Ooze weren't that interesting, but overall far more enjoyable.

What I really want from Capcom is to return to it's roots and ignore the influence from other games. RE 4 for instance was it's own game and received critical acclaim. Make your own game again. Resident Evil was at it's best as a singleplayer game where you don't have to think about the partner AI like in RE 5 or 6. I want to wander of a new area which is filled with dread and despair. I want enemies that aren't your typical mutated BOW's. I don't want to be overpowered in the weapons department. I want old and new.

 

[Romars202129]

It needs to do something, that's for sure.
I'd suggest they quit chasing the multiplayer shooter audience, as all the good it's done them is annoy that audience and their old fans, at the same time... and focus on singleplayer focused games.
But that can be equated to going back to their roots, so I guess I disagree OP.

 

[Nemmy]

I don't think returning to it's roots means going back to the old classic formula.

What I do think it means (I'm kind of in the same boat as the folks who RE returning to it's roots) is that don't care that much for the current direction of the Resident Evil series. I know fans of the original games bemoan the changes which were introduced in RE 4, but it still had one key element which I loved about the series: this constant, tense feeling while venturing through the area. When I played that game for the first time, you just had this uneasy feeling that at any second something could attack you from out of nowhere. And that feeling never disappeared during the entire game. I absolutely loved that. Next to the insane pacing ofcourse. That was close to perfection.

But that tense feeling... it was just there all the time. Even if Leon had some great weapons on him, fighting of the Las Plagas was pretty challenging. Even more so with enemies like the Regenerators or other creepers.

And when RE 5 was introduced, all of that was gone. At first you played a carbon copy of RE 4 with the village and as the game progressed it turned into a "okayis" third person shooter. It tried to mimic RE 4's direction, but it kind of failed because Capcom made it a game that should be enjoyed by two players at the same time. Which is a shame, because for fans of the series it's one hell of adjustment to see the former singleplayer franchise turning into a co-op fest. Gone was all the tension, pacing and more importantly; I kinda felt safe with all of those weapons. RE6 is another beast. But I feel we've discussed that one to death. The game was just too big in scope, convulted and the four chapters in the game qualitywise were extremely weird. I still can't believe Capcom went ahead with the Chris/Piers campaign. It was horrendously bad.

Revelations was pretty good by the way. Had some silly design choices in the costume department (right Rachel?) and the Ooze weren't that interesting, but overall far more enjoyable.

What I really want from Capcom is to return to it's roots and ignore the influence from other games. RE 4 for instance was it's own game and received critical acclaim. Make your own game again. Resident Evil was at it's best as a singleplayer game where you don't have to think about the partner AI like in RE 5 or 6. I want to wander of a new area which is filled with dread and despair. I want enemies that aren't your typical mutated BOW's. I don't want to be overpowered in the weapons department. I want old and new.

Agree with every word of this.
And the word "BOW" reminded me of something else I think went wrong with RE. The BSAA and the BOWs.

Back in the classic RE days, there were no BOWs, there were "oh my god monsters". There was no BSAA, there were more or less random people struggling to survive.
Coining a term to describe the monsters and forming an elite force meant to fight them make sense in the present day RE universe, of course. Those things were around for a decade and a half, of course people learned how to handle them, they became part of their reality. But putting an official name on something means it is no longer the unknown. The unknown is scary, a well known part of the existing reality is not. It might be gross, disgusting, or creepy in appearance, but it is no longer a thing that should not exist.
In the old days, we played as people from a world identical to ours, who looked at zombies and Lickers like we would look at them - with fear and disbelief. Now we play as professionals who look at them and their reaction is more or less "well, this one sure is ugly".

So a "return to the roots" I wouldn't mind seeing would be to play as a random person with a slight chance of survival and no knowledge of what they're facing. Heck, it could be a rookie cop again.

 

[Sadist]

Agree with every word of this.
And the word "BOW" reminded me of something else I think went wrong with RE. The BSAA and the BOWs.

Back in the classic RE days, there were no BOWs, there were "oh my god monsters". There was no BSAA, there were more or less random people struggling to survive.
Coining a term to describe the monsters and forming an elite force meant to fight them make sense in the present day RE universe, of course. Those things were around for a decade and a half, of course people learned how to handle them, they became part of their reality. But putting an official name on something means it is no longer the unknown. The unknown is scary, a well known part of the existing reality is not. It might be gross, disgusting, or creepy in appearance, but it is no longer a thing that should not exist.
In the old days, we played as people from a world identical to ours, who looked at zombies and Lickers like we would look at them - with fear and disbelief. Now we play as professionals who look at them and their reaction is more or less "well, this one sure is ugly".

So a "return to the roots" I wouldn't mind seeing would be to play as a random person with a slight chance of survival and no knowledge of what they're facing. Heck, it could be a rookie cop again.

That game kinda appeared already and it's called Zombi U

The random people surviving mechanic was really te driving force behind that particular game, but I think that's just one aspect of the game. Plus the permadeath feature put some stress on the player. I'm not saying RE should follow the Zombi U path, but it brought back fear for the undead. Limited resources, no allies to depend on and it takes only one bite to die... that's reason enough to be scared.

I don't think the inclusion of the BSAA or the ever evolving virus is taking away the fear, but the way how these particular elements are introduced during the game. You can have all the BSSA training you want, but if you face a horde of viscious flesh eating monsters, that means nothing. RE 6 demonstrates this quite nicely. During the Chris campaign Chris goes in with a fully trained team, fully equipped with body armour and machine guns. The enemies they face are humans who have chosen to take in a certain virus and change into gun wielding fleshy human-grasshopper-buglike hybrids. It's just a mutant threat. Leon's campaign starts entirely different: in the dead of night they investigate an Ivy League university which seems totally empty. They eventually face enemies that lack Logical attack patterns and purely act on instinct. Leon is a trained agent, but he only has his sidearm to protect himself with. Which scenario sounds more interesting and threatening?

Right. That's something Capcom should consider. I don't mind them using Leon and the others, but put them in situations where they aren't prepared for new outbreaks. Cities, jungles, villages, super secret labs, I don't care; don't give these characters something to work with. No highly trained squads, great weaponry, air support, partners that help 'em out whatever. A basic sidearm, their wits and some good old fashion fear for hordes of the undead.

 

[IvorB]

I think they should let it rest. Leave it alone for a good long while and bring it back when they figure out how to make a excellent and relevant survival horror game.

 

[G-Fex]

Agree with every word of this.
And the word "BOW" reminded me of something else I think went wrong with RE. The BSAA and the BOWs.

Back in the classic RE days, there were no BOWs, there were "oh my god monsters". There was no BSAA, there were more or less random people struggling to survive.
Coining a term to describe the monsters and forming an elite force meant to fight them make sense in the present day RE universe, of course. Those things were around for a decade and a half, of course people learned how to handle them, they became part of their reality. But putting an official name on something means it is no longer the unknown. The unknown is scary, a well known part of the existing reality is not. It might be gross, disgusting, or creepy in appearance, but it is no longer a thing that should not exist.
In the old days, we played as people from a world identical to ours, who looked at zombies and Lickers like we would look at them - with fear and disbelief. Now we play as professionals who look at them and their reaction is more or less "well, this one sure is ugly".

So a "return to the roots" I wouldn't mind seeing would be to play as a random person with a slight chance of survival and no knowledge of what they're facing. Heck, it could be a rookie cop again.

hahaha did you even read any files from the first RE game?

They were always called BOWs. That's the whole point.

They weren't all entirely unknown things that are mysterious.

There's a big slide you find in the lab you can watch. Every monster was planned by Umbrella, Cerberus, Hunter, Neptune and Tyrant T-002.

The only ones that weren't planned were Plant 42 and Yawn. And of course the Zombies which were a bad reaction they didn't know would happen.

The T-Virus was never some sort of chemical weapon, it was just used to create the B.O.W.s Umbrella planned out.