Maybe... 8.9 and a 9.0 is only actually different if the numbers are not nominally different(which they completely are). Unless they mathimatically figured out a way to give fractions to different views on certain points, the difference is one of emotions from the reviewer.
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Angry Joe gets called out by IGNs review editor for misquoting their Titanfall review
- Thread starter Dawg
- Start date
Maybe... 8.9 and a 9.0 is only actually different if the numbers are not nominally different(which they completely are). Unless they mathimatically figured out a way to give fractions to different views on certain points, the difference is one of emotions from the reviewer.
Let's face it, IGN isn't worried about it's reputation at this point. Obviously this was something personal for Dan.
Believe the hype brah.
What an hilarious preview.
Hilarious and sad too watching Dan S. trying to act offended; and I though that he was a cool guy from listening to a couple of PCGamer podcast, what a shame.
I would love IGN to explain the difference between a 8.9 and a 9.0 score. What aspects of the game made such a defining difference.
Do the reviewers actually sit there and think "this game is definitely a 7.3, not a 7.2 or a 7.4". Such a ridiculous scoring system, and a farcical site.
Do the reviewers actually sit there and think "this game is definitely a 7.3, not a 7.2 or a 7.4". Such a ridiculous scoring system, and a farcical site.
Hello Joe! Love your work; very entertaining.
Anyways, I wouldn't lose sleep over IGN (and even CNET) disappearing off the planet. Sadly, it won't likely happen anytime soon, but one can hope.
Subscribers don't mean everything. If you have 4.5m subscribers and less than 10% watch the content (per above pic you posted; quite funny), where's the value in that? It's kind of like counting followers on Twitter and FaceBook. Yes, you have less subscribers, but there's more value in your subscribers than theirs when they ACTUALLY WATCH YOUR CONTENT. Also, they've been a staple in the industry for almost 20 years, so you can expect them to have more followers as a given anyways.
Anyways, keep up the good/hard work and let's hope Dan Stapleton gets suspended from Twitter by his bosses, or something..
I'm not taking sides, but as a general observation, the level of pettiness in that tweet from someone who claims to be a professional journalist is simply staggering to me.
Schweinehund
Member
There are scales that exist where a single digit makes a significant difference. If one digit causes a label change in ign's system, maybe it is significant.
Just saying, deriding someone's scale off of "just one decimal" is not a great point.
Some people have the attitude of I'll treat you with the same level of respect you treat me. *shrugs*
Phreakuency
Banned
This, indeed.
Go back to your bad acting, pretending to be angry about as bad as Pewdierapie pretends to be scared.
Tweeting character attacks and even trying to hold that kind of an argument on Twitter is really strange, and I can see why you'd be upset about it. I do understand his point that using their preview while discussing reviews instead of using one of those reviews as an example can be considered misleading, but you've got a good point that the preview sentence was used in the marketing for the game as well.
But yeah. Discussions like that are probably not ever going to be done well in 140 characters or less.
Well, Joe's review instigated it, so he went in with no respect at all. It's not surprising that he got what he gave.
LostOne428
Banned
paolo11
Member
Don't worry. I understand the need of you to defend yourself. You were just doing your job. Providing honest reviews.
You keep on doing what you are doing, brother man.
Muffdraul
Member
I don't give two fucks about IGN, Angry Joe, Titanfall, or video game review scores in general. I know whether or not I'm buying a game long before it gets reviewed.
That said, I side with the IGN guy on this. If the score was 9.1 vs 9.0, then yes arguing over the 0.1 would be patently ridiculous. But when the reason for the 0.1 is specifically to indicate that the game is not quite "9" material, I see no problem with that.
That said, I side with the IGN guy on this. If the score was 9.1 vs 9.0, then yes arguing over the 0.1 would be patently ridiculous. But when the reason for the 0.1 is specifically to indicate that the game is not quite "9" material, I see no problem with that.
You are right about him sending you rude/sarcastic tweets that are not in the OP but there were SO MANY tweets so I only took a screenshot of the two longest conversations on twitter. The ones with most of the information in it.
But yes, that one tweet comparing youtube followers was awful. I think both sides made some mistakes during this conversation though.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Not even taking the other details into account posted above, here's the review moment in question.
He doesn't say "IGN gave the game a 9!" He says he's surprised ths game is getting such high scores at major outlets," then he says "'believe the hype!' '10 our of 10!' '9 out of 10!'" while showing the IGN review page/review score on screen with a caption reading
"I hate decimal places."
If Angry Joe had said "IGN gave the game a 9" then that would be fallacious and would warrant an apology. Taken in context, there's nothing objectively out of line here. It definitely doesn't warrant initial Dan's response, that's for certain. It's got nothing to do with "IGN sucks, hurr," though I now understand why so many share that sentiment.
Responding to bullshit in kind isn't something I support. However, I'll always assert that whoever starts the bullshit needs to be called out. Strange to see you focus so much on what Angry Joe did wrong here if you're trying to be objective.
Except you don't try to sway people to your side by saying the other person was being unprofessional when you did the same thing.
Honestly, both these guys are definitely unprofessional in their behavior, and I'm more appalled at Joe for trying to turn this into a case of him being the poor victim.
No it doesn't. It doesn't become the same thing. The bolded is the publisher intentionally misusing a preview quote on a box out of context to mislead, but that does not make the action of creating a preview a review.
The fault in the situation you are describing falls on a dishonest publisher, not the writer.
Which means that its technically not a review. You don't review early builds of an unfinished game.... Its not a review.
AngryJoeShow said:
I disagree. In fact thats the only thing he got right. YOU should have mentioned that the publisher used a preview quote out of context in order to promote their game. In that specific case, IGN did nothing wrong, there was ZERO reason for you to mention that without pointing out that the publisher was misusing it the way they did Joe.
I loathe IGN, but had you done that, he wouldnt have had a leg to stand on with his weak little twitter beef. But don't fault him for not taking his anger to the publisher for misusing a preview quote, when you passed on that VERY opportunity yourself.
If they feel that the difference between 1/10th when it changes the whole # is THAT significant, then why not make it an actual 10-point scale and ditch the decimal entirely. If 8.0 or 8.99999999 has a different definition than 9.0, then what's the point of the # after the decimal anyways with that kind of rating system.
Basketball
Member
I am the .1
IdreamofHIME
Member
I hate angry joe. His shtick is so bad.
I was almost happy Colonial Marines ended up sucking, after he made that top reasons why it will rock episode.
I was almost happy Colonial Marines ended up sucking, after he made that top reasons why it will rock episode.
Your entire point is lost on me, mainly due to the fact that you seem to really only have a problem with Joe and not the other person acting like a child and acting like he illuminated the world to the issue at hand. And if you are going to "take the high road" and tell people not to over react, calling people whiny angry children doesn't make you look like you do a good job taking the high road. Compounded by the fact that you think you need to teach people how to properly react to a formal discussions(that is what twitter is) and you come across as much of a jackass. The only thing it appears you are doing right now is, "preaching to the choir".
Joe, I don't follow you on YT. However, I went ahead and watched your Titalfall review for kicks. I have to ask a question.
Why do you feel it necessary to slam other websites reviews and criticisms in order to support your own within a review? It doesn't do anything to help you make a point. It only serves to undermine your own words and opinions on the same game. Do you do this with all of your other reviews as well? Say what you will about these outlets, they don't do around attempting to discredit their competitors in their versions of reviews. Why do you stoop to this?
There is always a time and a place to criticism gaming outlets overly high scores, but within your own review isn't really one of them.
Why do you feel it necessary to slam other websites reviews and criticisms in order to support your own within a review? It doesn't do anything to help you make a point. It only serves to undermine your own words and opinions on the same game. Do you do this with all of your other reviews as well? Say what you will about these outlets, they don't do around attempting to discredit their competitors in their versions of reviews. Why do you stoop to this?
There is always a time and a place to criticism gaming outlets overly high scores, but within your own review isn't really one of them.
ShockingAlberto
Member
You sort of lost any moral high ground when you started insulting the guy. Even if you feel he was rude to you first, it only makes you just as bad.
That said, when talking about professional standards, you should probably learn the difference between infer and imply.
Xyrmellon
Member
I like Joe, and I don't necessarily think he's wrong here. BUT- as he gets more popular, he needs to learn to play nice with others and put his ego in check. He has now had feuds with Geoff Keighley, Major Nelson and IGN. Those are the ones that I know of, there may be others. I understand he's been getting invited to a lot of preview events lately, but if he keeps pissing people off he'll get blacklisted.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
What.
Did you see Joe's video?
I will say that its a bit sad that people are not actually looking at this from both sides. I see a bunch of people siding with Joe simply because the IGN was unprofessional and people here love to hate on the site. They are not looking at what Joe did and jumping to conclusions based on the first burst of information they seem to be getting.
EL CUCO
Member
AngryJoeShow said:
I disagree. In fact thats the only thing he got right. YOU should have mentioned that the publisher used a preview quote out of context in order to promote their game. In that specific case, IGN did nothing wrong, there was ZERO reason for you to mention that without pointing out that the publisher was misusing it the way they did Joe.
I loathe IGN, but had you done that, he wouldnt have had a leg to stand on with his weak little twitter beef. But don't fault him for not taking his anger to the publisher for misusing a preview quote, when you passed on that VERY opportunity yourself.
Yes. He literally did what they taught us in J-school not to do. By posting the IGN review, he's conflating it improperly. It's a kind of tactic guys like Fox News use. Talk about something objectionable, and post a picture of something not related so you can encourage the audience to draw connections. It's a huge problem in journalism, and an immediate flat that the person in question is full of crap.
Do I think Dan handled it well? NOPE. But I can at least understand why he's upset. His work is being called into question, and Joe's spreading misinformation about it.
Joe, on the flip side, had literally no reason to do what he did other than just capitalize on generic hate for IGN. One's performing scummy journalism, the other's upset about that. Dan absolutely should have reached out and said "hey, Joe, I have a problem with this."
I consider someone who's sloppy and too arrogant to apologize for his sloppiness way worse than someone who's been offended when their work's been called into question.
A) don't know the other guy in question, don't read IGN at all
B) actually care a great deal about good journalism, and am easily frustrated by people who mess up AND THEN DON'T OWN UP TO THAT (see: Polygon's reaction to SimCity. Joe's doing the same thing here)
C) Calling someone a whiny, angry child isn't the low-road when they're being a whiny, angry child. It's calling out bad behavior.
Preaching to the choir would be preaching to people who agree with me.
Joe's Titanfall review was an embarrassing outlier. Usually, his content is of much higher quality than that.
Like I said before, it's just Joe being upset that other people don't share his same values in what a video game is worth.
Yes, yes it is; when that "scale" is completely absurd you definitely should derail that scale for "ojne decimal point" the idea that a subjective opinion can properly quantify that difference exactly what point made it different. Reviews are not an exact science, trying to pretend the difference between an 8.9 and a 9.0 can be explain with a proper amount of rational explanation is silly.
Phrozenflame500
Member
While I can sympathize, I still think either ignoring the jab or otherwise remaining non-hostile would have been a better move. This makes you both look like idiots bickering over twitter regardless of whether you were in the right or not. If you handled this in a more professional manner it would make you look far better and make him look far worse.
Do you have a question? I think I'm pretty clear. Joe decided to publicly get into a slap fight with Dan Stapleton. I think a measured response would have been more advisable.
Coolade
Member
I actually wish more people did this. After seeing all of the high praise for say NBA2k 14 from every outlet, I wish someone had called out other reviewers for how bad and broken that game actually is, and how it's nothing but micro transaction hell. I have no problem with it. In the case of titanfall, if you're getting misinformation from other sources, what's the problem with noting it? If you can't take some outside criticism for your opinion as a "game journalist" then whats the point of having open forums of conversation.
Also this. I have become increasingly annoyed more than anything by games media recently. There are some outliers but overall it all just feels so shallow.
@NeoGAFNewThread is about all of the games coverage I need.
The IGN guy initiated the "name-calling" by dubbing Joe's work as intentionally malicious. While he is more subtle about it, his comments imply that Joe is greedy, unethical and malicious. Joe could have handled it better but there's little doubt that the editor went full retard here
Angry Joe is at fault here. He clearly misrepresented IGN by implying that a quote in the preview appeared in the review.
The argument about 0.1 pts if cursory to the discussion and pointless.
Also, the personal attacks on Dan Stapleton are embarrassing. IGN have a right to complain. Not only that, they can actually sue him.
The argument about 0.1 pts if cursory to the discussion and pointless.
Also, the personal attacks on Dan Stapleton are embarrassing. IGN have a right to complain. Not only that, they can actually sue him.