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[Dr.Schlomo]

I meant that they would have to buy a new system after only 3 years and that that would suck. How appealing games are is heavily subjective (and you seem to know it too) so I won't venture into that discussion.



A new console would be the only thing, except for a massive surge of sales, that could get third-party back on board.

I'm honestly not sure if that would help enough. It seems like there needs to be a fundamental shift in how Nintendo as a company views third parties. They need to realize a lot of people would just as well play third party games than a Mario or Donkey Kong game.

 

[outunderthestars]

Oh wow, ignoring what Nintendo has actually said and their shitty games on the WiiU is evidence enough of that. There´s no media conspiracy against Nintendo.

Hang on, I am about as fierce of a critic of currcurrent Nintendo management and hardware as there is, but I don't see how anyone could call the Wii U first party games "shitty".

 

[test_account]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=108846159&postcount=334

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=108846720&postcount=354

Thanks, but where is this number from? Dreamcast really nearly doubled its LTD after it was discontinued (or two months before)? How is that possible?

 

[Tripon]

You still have not answered, how they were able to make new huge IPs and their marketing. And you have still not provided any proof to your original or subsequent claims.

...By Sony okaying the project and providing funds? You're arguing that Sony had no idea what ND was doing and gave money on blind trust. That's still a ridiculous stance to take.

Edit: And I'm done arguing about this in this thread since we're derailing, if you still want to continue, PM me.

 

[DNAbro]

Oh wow, ignoring what Nintendo has actually said and their shitty games on the WiiU is evidence enough of that. There´s no media conspiracy against Nintendo.

haha no

 

[MrCunningham]

Which also failed. Sega had six bombs in a row. The strange thing is, the Dreamcast is the only Sega system I ever owned. I couldn't get enough of Soul Calibur.

May as well post the chart:

i wonder what that drop off was in 1998? I do realize that Bernie Stolar officially killed the Dreamcast in North America in 1998, but were the rest of the losses from hardware development expenditures? Sega was spending a lot on R&D during that time period.

 

[test_account]

DC was discontinued in March 2001.

So the number in the OP is right afterall? Or how much was the numbers in January 2001?

 

[outunderthestars]

Thanks, but where is this number from? Dreamcast really nearly doubled its LTD after it was discontinued (or two months before)? How is that possible?

There was a massive firesale when they discontinued the Dreamcast. $49 systems and what not.

 

[Huff]

Hang on, I am about as fierce of a critic of currcurrent Nintendo management and hardware as there is, but I don't see how anyone could call the Wii U first party games "shitty".

a better word would probably be uninspired or unoriginal

 

[ironcreed]

I could make a list of what the PS4 is offering, but I'll simply state the market doesn't believe this stacks up as evidenced by sales. It basically doesn't overlap with current interests and tastes.

No doubt that the market does not give a shit, for whatever reasons. But there most certainly is still a strong value proposition that is very much there.

- Backwards compatibility
- Some great exclusives, with more on the way
- Features unique to the console
- No subscription to play online or to access other features
- Nintendo games in HD and it even does 1080p and 60 FPS
- It's cheaper

That makes a pretty valid case.

 

[Tripon]

Thanks, but where is this number from? Dreamcast really nearly doubled its LTD after it was discontinued (or two months before)? How is that possible?

Sega over produced basically. There were millions of Dreamcasts sold after discontinuation because there were still millions of Dreamcasts in whatever factory they were sitting in waiting to be sold.

 

[shinra-bansho]

So the number in the OP is right afterall? Or how much was the numbers in January 2001?

No, the system continued to sell/ship after Sega ceased production to reach the eventual 10M number.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

What are we arguing about anymore.

Looks like a couple of kids who didn't get into gaming until the 360 decided to smack talk the Dreamcast.

 

[Cbajd5]

So the number in the OP is right afterall?

Even if the sales number is (sort of) right the time frame isn't. It'd be correct if the Wii U was replaced with the Vita though.

 

[kswiston]

i wonder what that drop off was in 1998? I do realize that Bernie Stolar officially killed the Dreamcast in North America in 1998, but were the rest of the losses from hardware development expenditures? Sega was spending a lot on R&D during that time period.

Probably a combination of Dreamcast R&D and arcade losses. Isn't that around the time that the North American Arcade scene died?

 

[test_account]

There was a massive firesale when they discontinued the Dreamcast. $49 systems and what not.

I still find it curious how they had produced that many if it was selling that bad. Produced nearly twice as much as they sold before it was discontinued.

 

[Seik]

What other option do they have? They have no other significant releases that will capture the hardcore or the casual crowd. If they take a loss on the hardware upfront they can hope to at least gain some of it back in the software and peripherals. I refuse to buy a Wii U at a price higher than $199 with Mario Kart. At $299 I won't even consider it. So what's better? No revenue from me? Or me buying a the Wii U $199 + one or two games + controllers?

You got a point.

I think they'll do a MK8 bundle at $249 at first, thinking that'll be more than enough to do the job.

Then, yes, it'll raise sales, I think, but not enough in the long term or at least not as much as Nintendo would want to. Then they'll drop the price for the holidays with a 199$ bundle around Smash's release.

That's a shot in the dark but I think that's what will happen.

 

[Riki]

I still find it curious how they had produced that many if it was selling that bad.

Go big or go home. Sega believed that the Dreamcast would be their ultimate savior.

 

[ironcreed]

That's nice. Now analyze the value proposition beyond just you.

There is no question that these pros are not enough for most. I'm not arguing that. Only that they most certainly do make a strong case for the system.

 

[Huff]

No doubt that the market does not give a shit, for whatever reasons. But there most certainly is still a strong value proposition that is very much there.

- Backwards compatibility
- Some great exclusives, with more on the way
- Features unique to the console
- No subscription to play online or to access other features
- Nintendo games in HD and it even does 1080p and 60 FPS
- It's cheaper

That makes a pretty valid case.

makes a valid case to who?

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

a better word would probably be uninspired or unoriginal

Not everything can be as groundbreaking as GTA V.

Pro tip: 90% of the industry is comprised of sequels

 

[cloudyy]

Oh wow, ignoring what Nintendo has actually said and their shitty games on the WiiU is evidence enough of that. There´s no media conspiracy against Nintendo.

What shitty games?

 

[outunderthestars]

I still find it curious how they had produced that many if it was selling that bad.

Hardware production requires large orders of parts. Look at how many Surface tablets Microsoft has been trying to get rid of for over a year, or how long it took Sony to get rid of the useless 3g vita. I imagine Nintendo is still trying to sell hardware that was from the original batch of hardware.

 

[AdanVC]

And?... Seriously let's just stop insinuating Wii U would be discontinued soon and stuff. Nintendo is 100x in a much healthier position with Wii U than SEGA was with Dreamcast, they are completely different cases. Gamecube was selling relatively the same and that didn't stop Nintendo to produce games for that console until the very end of the generation with Zelda Twilight Princess. It's going to be the same case with Wii U, this console still has more than 3 years of life ahead so the least we can do is support it and enjoy the great games it would have.

 

[ironcreed]

makes a valid case to who?

For the system itself. It's beyond obvious that most people do not give a shit. Regardless of that, I am simply saying that these are still strong pros that work in it's favor.

 

[LithiumSpade]

Looks like a couple of kids who didn't get into gaming until the 360 decided to smack talk the Dreamcast.

Haha, correct. So much of this in this thread.

 

[test_account]

Sega over produced basically. There were millions of Dreamcasts sold after discontinuation because there were still millions of Dreamcasts in whatever factory they were sitting in waiting to be sold.

No, the system continued to sell/ship after Sega ceased production to reach the eventual 10M number.

Even if the sales number is (sort of) right the time frame isn't. It'd be correct if the Wii U was replaced with the Vita though.

Go big or go home. Sega believed that the Dreamcast would be their ultimate savior.

Ok, i see =)

 

[AstroNut325]

No doubt that the market does not give a shit, for whatever reasons. But there most certainly is still a strong value proposition that is very much there.

- Backwards compatibility
- Some great exclusives, with more on the way
- Features unique to the console
- No subscription to play online or to access other features
- Nintendo games in HD and it even does 1080p and 60 FPS
- It's cheaper

That makes a pretty valid case.

Um... unless you're really really into Nintendo exclusives you're better off dropping that $299 into a new videocard for a PC. That will negate the subscription, 1080p60fps, backwards compatibility, features, and cheaper.

 

[shinra-bansho]

There is no question that these pros are not enough for most. I'm not arguing that. Only that they most certainly do make a strong case for the system.

If they made a strong case to a broad market then the system wouldn't be selling as awfully as it does.

It's a weak value proposition, for a variety of reasons, in the context of the general consumer market. Having a list of bulletpoints doesn't amount to a value proposition if those points aren't order qualifying and order winning in the eyes of consumers.

 

[RagnarokX]

Most people are buying the PS4 for future potential and third party games and not for the console's exclusives because most of the exclusives released so far besides maybe a couple are bad or unimpressive.Some people bought the wiiu instead of the ps4 because of it''s exclusive games.The ps4 needs more exclusives that will make some people buy that console.

I bought Wii U because the promise of future exclusive games is much less nebulous than what you can expect on the other consoles and support makes that future even less nebulous. I'll most likely get a PS4 at some point but their games could be anything, both first and third party. How many games I like will PS4 have? I don't know. So far it has 1 and none announced that I absolutely make me want a PS4.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

...By Sony okaying the project and providing funds? You're arguing that Sony had no idea what ND was doing and gave money on blind trust. That's still a ridiculous stance to take.

When in the world did I say that? How could that possibly be the takeaway from my comment, when I purposefully stated that Naughty Dog challenged the desire to change TLOU marketing (which means that Sony was well aware of the development of TLOU)?

Autonomy =/= ignorance/negligence by Sony WWS.

Are you purposefully being obtuse?

 

[test_account]

Hardware production requires large orders of parts. Look at how many Surface tablets Microsoft has been trying to get rid of for over a year, or how long it took Sony to get rid of the useless 3g vita. I imagine Nintendo is still trying to sell hardware that was from the original batch of hardware.

I guess thats possible. I dont know how many that they produced, but a million a month seems on the high end i think. Then they would have to produce the system for around 10 months on the high end to reach that number. Just seemed like a lot to me concidering the poor sales.

I will be surprised if 10 million WiiU consoles are produced by now, but i have no idea though.

 

[BY2K]

I'd like to know what those first-party shitty games are. I'm lost here, guys.

 

[ironcreed]

If they made a strong case to a broad market then the system wouldn't be selling as awfully as it does.

It's a weak value proposition, for a variety of reasons, in the context of the general consumer market.

No doubt that none of those pros have registered. But that sure as hell does not make them cons.

 

[Khalifa Jayy]

Except Wiiu is great hardware and has great games

Except? As if the Dreamcast didn't? The fuck?

 

[Amazeballs]

What are we arguing about anymore.

People making loud noises and in turn attract others to respond to loud noises. It's all regurgitated information delivered in the usual rhetoric. My experience on this forum is meager but I can tell that there are only one or two regular posters who have the right information and are able contextualize it in a way that provides some actual insight. I'm personally sticking around to see if they'll post in this thread.

 

[outunderthestars]

I'd like to know what those first-party shitty games are. I'm lost here, guys.

Drive by trolls rarely stick around to clarify.

 

[Riki]

Drive by trolls rarely stick around to clarify.

Sad that these topics are always filled with them.

 

[atr0cious]

Dreamcast was selling at $99 on it's last legs as well. JSR, Crazy Taxi 2, PowerStones, Ready 2 Rumble Boxing, Q3A, PSO for the entry price of $100? Hell, I bought 2 more because of it.

You know what to do Iwata.

 

[Albo]

makes a valid case to who?

Nintedno fans

 

[AstroNut325]

Drive by trolls rarely stick around to clarify.

I don't condone those kinds of posts but it seems Nintendo fans seem oblivious to subjective nature associated to gamer tastes. Not everyone wants to play the latest Mario or Zelda. Not everyone wants to play another Donkey Kong or Mario Kart. And judging from the sales so far... most people don't.

 

[Coxy]

Nintendo has around 11B or somewhere around there.
The WiiU is a failure, yes, but that means they'll just make a new system in a few years and ride this out.

Don't think there's anything they can really do either--no one is interested.

they only have 5B now http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=794237

 

[Riki]

I don't condone those kinds of posts but it seems Nintendo fans seem oblivious to subjective nature associated to gamer tastes. Not everyone wants to play the latest Mario or Zelda. Not everyone wants to play another Donkey Kong or Mario Kart. And judging from the sales so far... most people don't.

And this makes the games "shitty" how?
These are universally praised games, regardless of if you like them personally.

 

[polyh3dron]

Except Wiiu is great hardware and has great games

Where do I start with this...

When the Dreamcast was released, it was far more powerful than any other gaming console available. When the PS2 came out, the gap in power between the two was just a bit wider than that of the PS4 and XBOne which nowadays certain people go to great lengths to convince others that it is negligible and "it's all about the gameplay". The Wii U on the other hand was about as powerful as the previous generation of offerings from its two competitors.

As for the great games argument, I could spew a huge list of great games that came out for the DC far outnumbering that of the Wii U, but I don't have the time to do that right now and just suffice it to say that such a claim is wildly false.

 

[BY2K]

I don't condone those kinds of posts but it seems Nintendo fans seem oblivious to subjective nature associated to gamer tastes. Not everyone wants to play the latest Mario or Zelda. Not everyone wants to play another Donkey Kong or Mario Kart. And judging from the sales so far... most people don't.

Different tastes doesn't mean shitty.

I'm not a big fan of RTS, but I'm not gonna go call Starcraft shitty.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I will be surprised if 10 million WiiU consoles are produced by now, but i have no idea though.

Nintendo currently hold about 180 billion yen in unsold inventory... a large chunk of that is presumably Wii U finished goods.

No doubt that none of those pros have registered. But that sure as hell does not make them cons.

You caught me before my edit. They're neither pros nor cons ultimately in this context, they're essentially irrelevant if they're not creating consumer value. They're just a list of bulletpoints.

It's like writing:
Two analog sticks.
OLED screen.
Back touchpad.
Indie games.

And insisting the Vita offers a compelling value proposition, when it clearly doesn't as evidenced by its lack of sales.

 

[outunderthestars]

I don't condone those kinds of posts but it seems Nintendo fans seem oblivious to subjective nature associated to gamer tastes. Not everyone wants to play the latest Mario or Zelda. Not everyone wants to play another Donkey Kong or Mario Kart. And judging from the sales so far... most people don't.

People have different tastes. I personally find almost every UniSoft game to be boring, but I wouldn't call them shitty. They get solid reviews and have a following. I don't see how someone could call Nintendo's Wii U games shitty.


Edit: beaten.

 

[Arklite]

RIP Dreamcast, you went far too soon.

There are people here who will praise the Vita and PS4 libraries while saying Wii U has no worthwhile games. This isn't true no matter how you slice it. Wii U has better games than both XB1 and PS4; is it not all about the games?

I didn't realize Bayonetta 2 was out, cuz I'm not seeing anything worth entry. To that end, obviously it's all purely subjective.

 

[RagnarokX]

What other option do they have? They have no other significant releases that will capture the hardcore or the casual crowd. If they take a loss on the hardware upfront they can hope to at least gain some of it back in the software and peripherals. I refuse to buy a Wii U at a price higher than $199 with Mario Kart. At $299 I won't even consider it. So what's better? No revenue from me? Or me buying a the Wii U $199 + one or two games + controllers?

Your demands are unreasonable. You want it for the price of a new 4GB 360 PLUS 1 or 2 $60 games packed in AND extra controllers. You're basically asking that the console be free. That's ridiculous. They were already taking a loss at $350

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I don't condone those kinds of posts but it seems Nintendo fans seem oblivious to subjective nature associated to gamer tastes. Not everyone wants to play the latest Mario or Zelda. Not everyone wants to play another Donkey Kong or Mario Kart. And judging from the sales so far... most people don't.

That's fine and dandy but to call a game "shitty", you should probably play it first to come that conclusion especially when tangible evidence in the form of media reviews and user reviews states the contrary.