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Mark Rein teases Unreal Tournament comeback, [More Today]

T

Teknopathetic

Member
"Epic basically had to ruin the game to make it playable on consoles. The UT fanbase has always been PC centric, so when UT3 came out and was clearly gimped to be enjoyable with a controller it naturally upset a lot of fans."


There is nothing about UT3's gameplay that is gimped to be more enjoyable with a controller.
 
M

Mordacious

Banned
DrPreston said:
Epic basically had to ruin the game to make it playable on consoles. The UT fanbase has always been PC centric, so when UT3 came out and was clearly gimped to be enjoyable with a controller it naturally upset a lot of fans.
Click to expand...

But it was not gimped. For one, on PS3 you could play with a mouse and keyboard. And on PC I do not notice any gimping either.

The real reasons UT3 was a bad game was solely its campaign mode and shitty new multiplayer modes that you were forced to play through in the solo campaign mode. Some of which were so atrocious that that in rendered the game unplayable as a single player game, even on Easy. Big fan of UT here, have owned and played them all, but I actually sold my console copy of UT3 when I realized I would NEVER make it through the campaign. Just terribly designed.

I hope brand new blood is working on this, or the old UT2K3/2K4 devs.
 
F

FuLLBLeeD

Neo Member
Teknopathetic said:
"Epic basically had to ruin the game to make it playable on consoles. The UT fanbase has always been PC centric, so when UT3 came out and was clearly gimped to be enjoyable with a controller it naturally upset a lot of fans."


There is nothing about UT3's gameplay that is gimped to be more enjoyable with a controller.
Click to expand...

Yeah can we throw away this complete garbage argument away entirely?

Let's look at some facts:

1. UT3 on consoles runs 20% slower than the PC version and dodges move you less far to compensate for console players not having access to keyboard movement.

2. UT2003 started its life as a console port: Unreal Championship.

3. Every single Unreal Tournament game since the original has had console versions. UT99 was on the Dreamcast and PS2. Unreal Championship is a console port of UT2003. The gameplay of the games WAS never designed for consoles, it was ALWAYS PC centric.

You can explain a million times the reasons for why dodge jumping was removed from UT3 and the conclusion people always arrive at is "dumbed down for consoles". Seriously? Enough with this crap.

Mordacious said:
I hope brand new blood is working on this, or the old UT2K3/2K4 devs.
Click to expand...

Digital Extremes made UT2003/Unreal Championship, and Epic stepped in to work on UT2004 to try and win back people that hated the new direction the game took. I don't even know why I bother, I don't even think people making these arguments understand the history of this series.
 
D

DodgyGeezerFella

Member
UT 2003 is atrocious. UT3 was bread and butter UT gameplay, with some stupid additions and design choices (Story mode eurgh, keep it simple as a tournament !, the UI was piss poor, but they fixed that, and the maps needed to be more various in themes, I cant even remember what the bad guys were but tentacles n shit took over ?). The gameplay however, was just sogood.gif

Unpopular opinion time. I really think UT would benefit from a matchmaking playlist style MP (this isn't to say a regular server browser is out of the question, I mean in a similar way to CS:GO). Being able to pick a mode, the system puts people together, then puts them into a dedicated server with pre-set rules and lets people go at it, competition style, like CS:GO's competitive matchmaking. Having a straight forward way to play normal games (rather than say, 200 frag deathmatch, 25 flag capture CTF etc).
 
SolidSnakeUS

SolidSnakeUS

Member
Ogs said:
UT 2003 is atrocious. UT3 was bread and butter UT gameplay, with some stupid additions and design choices (Story mode eurgh, keep it simple as a tournament !, the UI was piss poor, but they fixed that, and the maps needed to be more various in themes, I cant even remember what the bad guys were but tentacles n shit took over ?). The gameplay however, was just sogood.gif

Unpopular opinion time. I really think UT would benefit from a matchmaking playlist style MP (this isn't to say a regular server browser is out of the question, I mean in a similar way to CS:GO). Being able to pick a mode, the system puts people together, then puts them into a dedicated server with pre-set rules and lets people go at it, competition style, like CS:GO's competitive matchmaking. Having a straight forward way to play normal games (rather than say, 200 frag deathmatch, 25 flag capture CTF etc).
Click to expand...

UT without dedicated servers and mods/private servers isn't UT at all.
 
T

Teknopathetic

Member
"UT without dedicated servers and mods/private servers isn't UT at all."


Read the rest of that sentence where he mentions CS:GO which has both matchmaking and a server browser for mods/private servers. It's not unreasonable.
 
D

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Reasons I didn't like UT3

They removed the Lighting Gun
The graphics were too noisy, making it hard to pick up targets
 
L

_Legacy_

Member
To be honest, I think the later versions of UT were poor. I can't even remember the game that the "coup de grais/coup d'tat" finisher but that was silly for a frantic fps shooter. UT GOTY edition all the way
 
F

FuLLBLeeD

Neo Member
Teknopathetic said:
"UT without dedicated servers and mods/private servers isn't UT at all."


Read the rest of that sentence where he mentions CS:GO which has both matchmaking and a server browser for mods/private servers. It's not unreasonable.
Click to expand...

Team Fortress 2 does it too. Matchmaking is actually a really good thing; its just these days its associated with games with no mod tools or dedicated servers. If you add it on top of the standard features expected in any PC FPS it works really well.

It would have to be better integrated with how common mutators and custom maps are in Unreal Tournament, however.

I'd also put any fears of "no mod tools" to rest. This is a company that has historically supported its modding community probably more than any other FPS developer besides Valve.
 
H

Hollow

Member
DrPreston said:
Epic basically had to ruin the game to make it playable on consoles. The UT fanbase has always been PC centric, so when UT3 came out and was clearly gimped to be enjoyable with a controller it naturally upset a lot of fans.
Click to expand...

Well that's total bull. UT is very simple as a shooter so there's nothing they had to gimp to make it work on a console.

The reason fans didn't like it is because it wasn't as content or feature rich as UT2004. UT2004 had more everything and it did it better than 3.
 
Facism

Facism

Member
I just want to be able to play iLMS again. Getting down to 1v1 on pub servers and then seeing if the other guy wants to FFA or Arena, shooting the floor to tell each other you're ready to duel.
 
T

Techies

Member
FuLLBLeeD said:
Yeah can we throw away this complete garbage argument away entirely?

Let's look at some facts:

1. UT3 on consoles runs 20% slower than the PC version and dodges move you less far to compensate for console players not having access to keyboard movement.

2. UT2003 started its life as a console port: Unreal Championship.

3. Every single Unreal Tournament game since the original has had console versions. UT99 was on the Dreamcast and PS2. Unreal Championship is a console port of UT2003. The gameplay of the games WAS never designed for consoles, it was ALWAYS PC centric.

You can explain a million times the reasons for why dodge jumping was removed from UT3 and the conclusion people always arrive at is "dumbed down for consoles". Seriously? Enough with this crap.



Digital Extremes made UT2003/Unreal Championship, and Epic stepped in to work on UT2004 to try and win back people that hated the new direction the game took. I don't even know why I bother, I don't even think people making these arguments understand the history of this series.
Click to expand...

If my memory serves me right UT3 console ran at 100% game-speed on consoles and 110% on the PC. that's why the timers were all messed up on PC. Why powerups etc did not exactly appear at 30 seconds but more on the lines of 27s

I messed a bit with the source code back in the day.

Dodge Jumping was just a plan broken mechanic and made map design harder than it should of been, the mappers had to make extremely wide gaps in order to compensate.
People were no longer moving on foot which also meant hitscan weapons dominated.
 
V

velociraptor

Junior Member
DrPreston said:
Epic basically had to ruin the game to make it playable on consoles. The UT fanbase has always been PC centric, so when UT3 came out and was clearly gimped to be enjoyable with a controller it naturally upset a lot of fans.
Click to expand...
This post could not be further from the truth.

The gameplay mechanics were exactly the same as the previous UT games. Nothing was gimped.
 
T

Teknopathetic

Member
"If my memory serves me right UT3 console ran at 100% game-speed on consoles and 110% on the PC. that's why the timers were all messed up on PC. Why powerups etc did not exactly appear at 30 seconds but more on the lines of 27s"


UT power up timers have been 27/55s since 2004.

edit: correction
 
T

Techies

Member
velociraptor said:
This post could not be further from the truth.

The gameplay mechanics were exactly the same as the previous UT games. Nothing was gimped.
Click to expand...

The numbers were though, and minor inconceivable things.

For instance in UT you had almost no air control, and no double jump. The dodge was also much close to the ground and fast.

UT2004 was also kinda close to the ground, but a lot further away, people use to turn the camera at weird angles in order to dodge forward. It was faster to dodge-jump forward than to run.

UT3's dodge at much bigger arc, and people still dodged forward to move faster, but the angle felt more natural.

People also thought the gravity was different, but the reality was the double jump heights differed. Can't recall exactly, but in one game the initial jump was higher with the follow up lower, while the other one had two almost equal height jumps.
 
T

Techies

Member
Teknopathetic said:
"If my memory serves me right UT3 console ran at 100% game-speed on consoles and 110% on the PC. that's why the timers were all messed up on PC. Why powerups etc did not exactly appear at 30 seconds but more on the lines of 27s"


UT power up timers have always been 27/55s.
Click to expand...

Source code tells a different story:

Code: 
defaultproperties
{
	bSuperHeal=true
	bPredictRespawns=true
	bIsSuperItem=true
	[B]RespawnTime=60.000000[/B]
	MaxDesireability=2.000000
	HealingAmount=100

They wanted to increase the pace of the game, they took the lazy approach. Game already would of been so much more accessible, if timing power-ups were made more transparent. There are so many visual cues and other cues you could of used to show that this item is about to respawn without memorizing weird time instances on the clock.
 
T

Teknopathetic

Member
"They wanted to increase the pace of the game, they took the lazy approach. Game already would of been so much more accessible, if timing power-ups were made more transparent. There are so many visual cues and other cues you could of used to show that this item is about to respawn without memorizing weird time instances on the clock."


This doesn't change the fact that that UT2K3/2K4 health/keg timers were also 27~ and 55s. Your theory doesn't hold up when you consider this fact. Or rather, the evidence you're presenting is irrelevant to the conclusion you're drawing.
 
P

Phil4000

Member
Teknopathetic said:
"Epic basically had to ruin the game to make it playable on consoles. The UT fanbase has always been PC centric, so when UT3 came out and was clearly gimped to be enjoyable with a controller it naturally upset a lot of fans."


There is nothing about UT3's gameplay that is gimped to be more enjoyable with a controller.
Click to expand...

haha.... o your serious..aren't you?!
 
U

ultratruman

Banned
Phil4000 said:
haha.... o your serious..aren't you?!
Click to expand...

Great job. This is how you defend your point.

Anyway, UT3 was a good game, but not the game it needed to be for its time. The lack of mods and a meaningful community really sucked out the fun and potential that previous UT games pretty much relied on.
 
F

FuLLBLeeD

Neo Member
I've been told UT3 powerups are on a 27.5 second interval which makes timing them a bit more bizarre than it needs to be.

The changes to UT3 gravity and movement were made because Epic was unhappy with how they worked in UT2004. In the PC Gamer reveal of UT3 back when it was called UT2007, they basically say this verbatim.

If you don't like the way the game plays, that's fine, but saying it was dumbed down for consoles or the movement was "gimped" is flat out wrong.
 
H

Have a Nice Day

Member
Phil4000 said:
haha.... o your serious..aren't you?!
Click to expand...

Peeps have been annoyed by Epic's lack of support for the PC and they criticized that, some of them were on point and some were spewing nonsense.

Saying UT3 is enjoyable with a controller is a load of pure shite unless he never played a UT/Quake match on PC.
 
M

Miker

Member
Have a Nice Day said:
Peeps have been annoyed by Epic's lack of support for the PC and they criticized that, some of them were on point and some were spewing nonsense.

Saying UT3 is enjoyable with a controller is a load of pure shite unless he never played a UT/Quake match on PC.
Click to expand...

I saw that edit. I love UT as a game and as a *PC* game as much as the next guy, but I'm sure tons of people were first introduced to the franchise on consoles (DC, Xbox, PS2, PS3, 360) and loved their time with it. No need to tell other people if they're enjoying a game or not.

Also, UC2 is one of the best UT games - UT99/2K4/UC2 are the holy trinity, imo - and that was a console exclusive.
 
-hal-

-hal-

Member
FuLLBLeeD said:
2. UT2003 started its life as a console port: Unreal Championship.

3. Every single Unreal Tournament game since the original has had console versions. UT99 was on the Dreamcast and PS2. Unreal Championship is a console port of UT2003. The gameplay of the games WAS never designed for consoles, it was ALWAYS PC centric.
Click to expand...

Hello FuLLBLeeD - actually you're kinda right/not right. Digital Extremes started off their initial designs for a UT sequel as a pure console game. Very early on in development, Epic decided that they should probably go ahead and make a PC sequel and development then switched over to PC -- which was then translated into Unreal Championship.

So some of the founding principles of UT2003 had consoles in mind: enhanced movement (the many variations of dodging/jumping), some of the initial map ideas, as well as the sports "theme".

Still, your point stands as the games themselves have all been PC games with console ports (save UC2).
 
A

ashecitism

Member
_woLf said:
When exactly is this announcement coming, anyway?
Click to expand...

t1399575600z1.png


not sure if this is right, because the tweet said 2pm, but when I entered it into secondapps it gave me 3pm. I checked and there seems to be some EST/EDT stuff going on. Eh, timezones...
 
D

def sim

Member
ashecitism said:
t1399575600z1.png


not sure if this is right, because the tweet said 2pm, but when I entered it into secondapps it gave me 3pm. I checked and there seems to be some EST/EDT stuff going on. Eh, timezones...
Click to expand...

It's off by an hour as we are currently in EDT. So, 7 hours and 42 minutes from this post.
 
F0rneus

F0rneus

Tears in the rain
I'll be happy with more UT in any form...but I sincerely hope that this is a new title. I'm going full hype train with this shit. UT2015! I can feel it!
 
E

EVIL

Member
maniac-kun said:
UE4 for now dosnt have vehicle support as far as i know. So theres a chance that they fous on the core gameplay.
Click to expand...

there is vehicle support, just not out of the box for people to use in the form of a template. Its not hard to set something up like that.
 
N

Nymerio

Member
Hype rising. I hope it's along the lines of UT99. I liked the games that came after but UT99 has always been my favourite. There's something pure about it that the sequels could never quite catch. It doesn't help that I was never a fan of multiplayer modes with vehicles though. UT3 was cool but I don't really like the art style :/
 
D

diggmcbadass

Member
I really hope for vehicle type game modes, whatever this thing turns out to be. Most of my time in both UT3 and 2k4 was spent playing Onslaught/Warfare.
 
H

hEist

Member
just gimme a UT99 in HD. That's all.
The good old CTF. Maps like ctf-Lava Giant, ctf-Orbital, ctf-Ranel, ctf-Incinerator, ctf-Bleak-CE100

Strafejump, translocator and ASMD and i will purchase a pc.
 
S

swnny

Member
hEist said:
just gimme a UT99 in HD. That's all.
The good old CTF. Maps like ctf-Lava Giant, ctf-Orbital, ctf-Ranel, ctf-Incinerator, ctf-Bleak-CE100

Strafejump, translocator and ASMD and i will purchase a pc.
Click to expand...

Don't forget FacingWorlds! :(
Best... Map... Ever...
 
J

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
RealityExists said:
oh lawd. if this isn't some crappy f2p game I'm going to freak out.
Click to expand...

I think either F2P or a price tag of $15-20 are most likely, though I can't help but wonder if the success of Titanfall may have given Epic pause on that front.
 
Skyr

Skyr

Member
hEist said:
just gimme a UT99 in HD. That's all.
The good old CTF. Maps like ctf-Lava Giant, ctf-Orbital, ctf-Ranel, ctf-Incinerator, ctf-Bleak-CE100

Strafejump, translocator and ASMD and i will purchase a pc.
Click to expand...

so much this...
Just convert it into UE4 and fix the netcode.
This would be to good to be true tho. OMG PLEASE DO IT IM BEGGING YOU :(
 
L

Lollipop Dave

Member
hEist said:
just gimme a UT99 in HD. That's all.
The good old CTF. Maps like ctf-Lava Giant, ctf-Orbital, ctf-Ranel, ctf-Incinerator, ctf-Bleak-CE100

Strafejump, translocator and ASMD and i will purchase a pc.
Click to expand...

This is what I want. And then I can spend all my hours on sniper servers again.
 
H

hEist

Member
swnny said:
Don't forget FacingWorlds! :(
Best... Map... Ever...
Click to expand...

played so much hours on ffa-servers on the beginning of ut. Was good for "newbies" to learn weapons like asmd and rocket launcher.
But after joining clans and playing in some tournaments, other maps like ranel and inci made so much more fun and were much faster.
 
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