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[Wazzy]

To be fair, him NOT being female shouldn't bother people this much either. Especially since he's always been a male in the past. Honestly looking through the thread the people pushing for female Link have been far more aggressive and antagonistic than the people that seem happy to have classic male Link.

It's bothering people because of the implications that it was a female character. Many thought we were going to get a female lead and Aonuma with his trolling supported the idea even more.

You can't see why that would bother people?

 

[Syntax]

What might be sort of cool, for a spinoff game, is a world where one version of Link dies before he can begin his story, and Zelda takes over the quest to try and live up to his memory. That'd be a neat, emotional game.

Like maybe it's a harder road for her than it would've been for Link, because she just isn't him, but she succeeds in the end.

Neat idea. I haven't played all the Zelda games out there (to completion) but I thought they pretty much need each other whenever they're paired up. Wisdom and Courage and entwined by fate, etc.

I usually find smaller stakes more personal and therefore more compelling. A Zelda game where Link is ill or otherwise distressed and Zelda needs to become a hero not to save the world but to save him (maybe her best friend since childhood?) and then she ends up saving the world anyway or something, would make for a fun game.

 

[Not]

Need to give women and girls a chance to feel better represented in the game. There is a woman named Zelda. The series is actually named for her. She also has a different established form in which she becomes a warrior named Sheik. They can easily make a game starring her, in a time Link isn't born yet and evil comes, or could have it set during the years Link was in the temple of time in Ocarina etc.

I think it's kinda sad you can't make a Legend of Zelda game starring the titular character without some people crying foul. You'd have to make a spinoff. What are you gonna call that?

Spoiler

Zelda's Adventure

 

[AnathemicOne]

He's a guy to me and countless others.

Link has dialogue options in several games, and showcases character through body language in just about all of the 3D games.

If it makes no difference then why can't he stay male? That's how he's always been, and I've never seen massive complaints about it before this e3. Why can't a character just stay the way they are, and different character be used or a new character created to suit differing needs?

If it makes no difference why can't Link be female? The problem I see here, I feel, is not the fact that Link isn't a female for this upcoming installment of the franchise, but the huge amount of defense people take at the mere mention of Link being a female.

And body language? Really? What biologically-male-exclusive "body language" is shown in any of the 3D Zelda games?

 

[OceanBlue]

I would've liked it if the new Link was a girl or someone else, but people definitely let their expectations get too high on speculation.

 

[Log4Girlz]

This is like saying that since Link is always a white, Caucasian looking guy then Nintendo is making a statement that black men can't be a hero.

You're just being bloody silly and making ruckus out of thin air.

I advocate a character creation option since you are indeed playing such a weighty role and it is been a recurring one for so long. Would be nice to play different genders and races.

 

[Mushroomer25]

That's reasonable on the surface, but the fact is we know so little about the game right now that if the new Link were actually female, there wouldn't really be a basis for saying the gender thing was a shallow change.

We don't know a ton about this Zelda, but we know a great deal about how Nintendo's treated the character over time - and if making that sort of change would fit with the series' long standing tradition. LoZ is a series about a single story that keeps retelling itself throughout history. And for the most part, that story is "Young boy who nobody took for a hero, saves princess.". I understand why people get antsy about changing small things like character gender, when the story hinges upon adherence to tradition. (Not to say such an angle wouldn't be interesting. If you want to give the Zelda series new life, changing Link's gender would be a great way to illustrate said changes from a storytelling perspective.)

The part I don't like is people calling for a straight up "male/female" choice right next to the naming screen. If this change happens, it would need to be a part of the story & addressed by the narrative. Not just added in as a bonus feature to throw on the back of the box.

 

[Kurt]

What they could do as mixup is that you start off as Zelda leaving the castle to hunt something down -> in the end you get caught. From there on you start with Link.

 

[Monocle]

I can't believe people are trying to act like Link being a guy is so important to his character. The only game that gave Link some form of a personality was SS which is the one game that made sense for him to be male.

Everything else he's been speechless with no personality. Him being a woman in ONE game should not bother people this much.

The funny thing is that due to the reincarnation theme, changing Link's gender isn't anywhere near as drastic as, say, changing Mario's. There's no single definitive version of Link. The character is a collection of traits. Link has always been androgynous anyway. Besides the Fierce Deity version, I suppose.

We don't know a ton about this Zelda, but we know a great deal about how Nintendo's treated the character over time - and if making that sort of change would fit with the series' long standing tradition. LoZ is a series about a single story that keeps retelling itself throughout history. And for the most part, that story is "Young boy who nobody took for a hero, saves princess.". I understand why people get antsy about changing small things like character gender, when the story hinges upon adherence to tradition. (Not to say such an angle wouldn't be interesting. If you want to give the Zelda series new life, changing Link's gender would be a great way to illustrate said changes from a storytelling perspective.)

The part I don't like is people calling for a straight up "male/female" choice right next to the naming screen. If this change happens, it would need to be a part of the story & addressed by the narrative. Not just added in as a bonus feature to throw on the back of the box.

Yep, we're on the same page here.

 

[A-V-B]

Neat idea. I haven't played all the Zelda games out there (to completion) but I thought they pretty much need each other whenever they're paired up. Wisdom and Courage and entwined by fate, etc.

I usually find smaller stakes more personal and therefore more compelling. A Zelda game where Link is ill or otherwise distressed and Zelda needs to become a hero not to save the world but to save him (maybe her best friend since childhood?) and then she ends up saving the world anyway or something, would make for a fun game.

Yeah, that's just what I'm talking about

It'd be a great story, if nothing else.

 

[technocritter]

If you didn't, you wouldn't be here.

I'm just here for the show

 

[aly]

But why should we care if people don't like change? If we did, the video game industry wouldn't have more women. minorities and LGBT characters that they do now. Obviously things still need to be improved on but these steps are taken when we allow change.

And this character still looks similar to Link that it being a girl really shouldn't bother people as much is it is. It's weird that people would get defensive over a speechless character. I've grown up on the Zelda franchise, I've always loved Links design but I can totally see a female lead in the series because Link being male or female has no bearing on the storyline.

But why does change have to happen with established or iconic characters ? Change can happen by introducing new characters with those representations and building them up to that status. I want more black female characters, but that doesn't mean I want Lara Croft get palette swapped to represent that. Some people view Link as male, even if he is speechless. They don't like the change because they don't think its Link. Pretty sure that's it.

 

[ASIS]

Samus is normally hidden in a large suit.
You could replace Samus with the main character of the Dead Space series and most people wouldn't see a difference while playing the game.

And if they made any differences then they are sexualizing the character. If there is no difference then why do most people automatically think Samus is a guy?

 

[Wazzy]

Idk, he was pretty expressive in WW

Sure but I don't think anything he did was really required of him to be a male character. Compare that to SS where he clearly has an interest in Zelda and is bullied by another male character.

May I ask why it's not the same thing as making Mario female? He's a recognizable, established character, it's the same thing. Zelda is a different reincarnation every single time, the reincarnation of the same character, which happens to be female. I don't see complaints about her not changing gender. I would actually love to save a kidnapped prince as a female pc in a game, that would be refreshing and awesome. Yet I don't complain about this game not being Zelda, because the characters in that universe are already established.

Mario is always the same character. The series is called Mario.

 

[bon]

What a shitty joke.

Aonuma just thought people would not be silly enough to seriously think that was not the same Link as always. It seems pretty obvious in retrospect.

Journalist: "Was that character in the trailer for the new Zelda game Link?"
Aonuma: "Phhht, hey now, slow down, who told you that? Hahahaha"


Will the main character in the next Mario game be Mario? Who knows?

 

[RMS Gigantic]

Ok I see where you're coming from and I apologize because this is going to come off as rude but dude, from that little snip of the trailer you've concluded all of this? I mean maybe you're completely on the mark but to me it just seems like you're reaching.

I'll drop it, we'll agree to disagree. I respect your opinion though so don't think I'm trying to sound like an ass on purpose or anything

In the original post, there's three stills in particular that I use for references. Those 15 seconds provided a surprising number of angles and zoom levels. I also invited people to prove me wrong on the actual points I make, but as of yet folks mainly dodged the objective points.


Now then, if you'll excuse me, I apparently need to become Mr. Smith for the next some hours....

 

[Madness]

The title hero of all fucking time has a certain weight to it. So why does destiny keep picking males? What does gender have to do with Links soul?

"And the powers that be decided to reincarnate Link, the hero of time, who must always have to have a penis and testicles or he couldn't be the hero of time, time and again to save the universe"

"Link, this is god, I'm reincarnating you and your genitals to fight evil once again. You are not you without the ol family jewels. If I were to accidently bring you back with a vagina, then all is lost"

You sure seem obsessed with the sexual organs of the characters. You also seem to overlook the fact you are basing Link as a different character simply because of the different art style of the game, or you would have remembered that Link has always been born a Hylian male. Even in Ocarina when the Kokiri raised him as their own.

So he'll always be the same character, however a male Hylian looks in that game. He's never even had a skin color change. Always the same white, blonde, Hylian with pointy ears. So despite his cel-shading, his bushy hair, his spiky hair, he's always technically been the same eternal character.

That's kind of the point of an eternal curse, that he's always reborn as he was those centuries, millenia ago.

 

[one_kill]

I want to play as an Asian Link.

#asianlinkforwiiu

 

[Not]

Because gender isn't irrelevant. Isn't the fact that you're invested in Link, or some other female character getting a crack at bat in the Zelda franchise proof of that?. Link is an extremely popular character, and to me at least, his gender is part of his identity.

All right. Great points. So, if we aren't allowed to change Link, would it be cool to have a Zelda game without him? A brand new female protagonist? Or are we still, for some reason, not allowed to have a Zelda game without Link for the sake of consistency and/or nostalgia?

 

[Taker666]

I hope he doesn't change the character design to make him look more manly now.

I love the more wirey Link design ..and I still don't get why anyone thought it was a girl.

 

[SkeptiMism]

May I ask why it's not the same thing as making Mario female? He's a recognizable, established character, it's the same thing. Zelda is a different reincarnation every single time, the reincarnation of the same character, which happens to be female. I don't see complaints about her not changing gender. I would actually love to save a kidnapped prince as a female pc in a game, that would be refreshing and awesome. Yet I don't complain about this game not being Zelda, because the characters in that universe are already established.

Because Mario is always the same person and Link is just a reincarnation. It's not the same thing at all. Link could still easily be the same recognizable, established character if he was a female. He could already pass being a female as it is. Mario could not.

I guess the reason for why people aren't asking Zelda to be man is that we're not playing as Zelda but we're playing as Link and as Aonuma keeps saying Link is meant to be an avatar. Zelda isn't.
But yes, it'd certainly be very refreshing if Zelda was male for once.

 

[activatethesmile]

I advocate a character creation option since you are indeed playing such a weight rule and it is been a recurring one for so long. Would be nice to play different genders and races.

Then ask Nintendo for a game where you can play as Zelda. Or Impa.

Or maybe go play Hyrule Warrior. Although what you're saying is not a bad thing too, if Nintendo decides to go that way.

As it is though, despite what people say about him being a mute, expressionless lead, Link is not Gordon Freeman and he has character features that is long and widely recognizable by many. To say that Nintendo's not making Link a girl equals them making a statement that girl is weak is bloody silly.

 

[zeldablue]

Why do you think that people who are against a gender-swapped Link don't want a female MC? I personally am disappointed there is no female MC option in this (make that every) Zelda. But when the title comes that introduces gender equality for the player character I want her to have a distinct personality. I want a new character and not a lazy gender swap or I want Nintendo to commit to a specific female MC in a title.

Preach it. Girl Link would be a cop out. I want unique well-tailored female characters if it ever happens...which is why I was rooting for playable Zelda. =

 

[technocritter]

And if they made any differences then they are sexualizing the character. If there is no difference then why do most people automatically think Samus is a guy?

Wait, what are you trying to say?

 

[Log4Girlz]

The funny thing is that due to the reincarnation theme, changing Link's gender isn't anywhere near as drastic as, say, changing Mario's. There's no single definitive version of Link. The character is a collection of traits. Link has always been androgynous anyway.


Yep, we're on the same page here.

And yet so many scoff at the idea of changing it up just once. I still don't understand how link's soul is physiologically male.

 

[truestatic]

To be fair, him NOT being female shouldn't bother people this much either. Especially since he's always been a male in the past. Honestly looking through the thread the people pushing for female Link have been far more aggressive and antagonistic than the people that seem happy to have classic male Link.

In their defense, I get the feeling it's seen as less of a failed imperative and more of a missed opportunity. It's not so much Link's gender that matters to people, as the desire to play a strong female protagonist in a Zelda game. It's not that Link SHOULD be a girl, but that he doesn't work as a self insertion character. I'm sure that's not everyone, though. Doubtless a lot of the people who'd love to play a female character in Zelda are guys.

 

[Not]

"Link, this is god, I'm reincarnating you and your genitals to fight evil once again. You are not you without the ol family jewels. If I were to accidently bring you back with a vagina, then all is lost"

can we repost this every page

 

[masud]

I'd have no issue with a female link if done right. I just think that it would be difficult from a narrative standpoint without appearing to be hokey and heavy handed. Plus I think an loz game with a playable Zelda featuring a story about a princess who defies expectations to save the world has the potential to be a much better and empowering story.

 

[drgambit]

Wow, the outrage on this will be heavy. Prepare for hashtags and articles shaming Nintendo tomorrow everyone!

 

[Vermillion]

It's bothering people because of the implications that it was a female character. Many thought we were going to get a female lead and Aonuma with his trolling supported the idea even more.

You can't see why that would bother people?

Nope. This is always the result of that sort of hype and speculation.

Same thing happened when people wanted to confirm... what, Gen IV(?) starters as fake. Same thing that happens in the Smash thread every week.

...God I can't wait for Ridley to be truly deconfirmed.

 

[AlphaDragoon]

It's bothering people because of the implications that it was a female character. Many thought we were going to get a female lead and Aonuma with his trolling supported the idea even more.

You can't see why that would bother people?

What implications though? Link has looked androgynous for a long time now, we had people talking about how feminine he looked when the Hyrule Warriors full sized artwork was revealed. The only implication at all that this was someone other than the standard Link was Aonuma trolling, and even he didn't say "what if it's a female".

People mainly seem mad IMO because they didn't want to believe that the model of Link we saw could be a guy because it "didn't fit" male stereotypes from their personal view, and thus must be female.

 

[Wazzy]

The funny thing is that due to the reincarnation theme, changing Link's gender isn't anywhere near as drastic as, say, changing Mario's. There's no single definitive version of Link. The character is a collection of traits. Link has always been androgynous anyway. Besides the Fierce Deity version, I suppose.

That's why I don't understand the defensiveness of Link being a female for one game. It seems more like people just don't want to play as a female character.

Another thing is that Mario will always be a guy character. His whole story is Mario saves his Princess and the series is called Mario Bro's.

But why does change have to happen with established or iconic characters ? Change can happen by introducing new characters with those representations and building them up to that status. I want more black female characters, but that doesn't mean I want Lara Croft get palette swapped to represent that. Some people view Link as male, even if he is speechless. They don't like the change because they don't think its Link. Pretty sure that's it.

Because one game where the whole franchise doesn't even use the same character and his appearance changes throughout each game having a female lead should not bother people this much. Gender doesn't affect Link at all.

 

[A-V-B]

I think the marketing dept should at least take note how big of a reaction even the rumor of a female protagonist for the series got.

There's some kind of demand there. What to do with it?

 

[balgajo]

Girls, the hero of time is always male. Girls are weak, im so sorry.

Not sure if it's a joke post or a strange way of jumping into conclusions.

 

[Mushroomer25]

I think it's kinda sad you can't make a Legend of Zelda game starring the titular character without some people crying foul. You'd have to make a spinoff. What are you gonna call that?

Spoiler

Zelda's Adventure

If I want to make a Harry Potter movie about Dumbledore's backstory, should I title that movie "Harry Potter & (subtitle)"?

Every past Legend of Zelda game has starred Link as the playable character, and there's value in adherence to tradition. You're free to use the word "Zelda" in the title for branding purposes, but if a LoZ game isn't going to tell the "LoZ Story" - don't title it LoZ.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

Aonuma just thought people would not be silly enough to seriously think that was not the same Link as always. It seems pretty obvious in retrospect.

Journalist: "Was that character in the trailer for the new Zelda game Link?"
Aonuma: "Phhht, hey now, slow down, who told you that? Hahahaha"


Will the main character in the next Mario game be Mario? Who knows?

That's not the context, though. The journalist said that Link looked different. Aonuma responded by suggesting it might not be Link at all.

 

[technocritter]

can we repost this every page

Technically the gods in the Zelda universe are three females so maybe they keep Link a male for eye candy

Spoiler

you never know

 

[SteveO409]

Wow, the outrage on this will be heavy. Prepare for hashtags and articles shaming Nintendo tomorrow everyone!

You're essentially cutting your potential sales in half.

 

[SomeRandomWeirdGuy]

If it makes no difference why can't Link be female? The problem I see here, I feel, is not the fact that Link isn't a female for this upcoming installment of the franchise, but the huge amount of defense people take at the mere mention of Link being a female.

And body language? Really? What biologically-male-exclusive "body language" is shown in any of the 3D Zelda games?

Because Link has always been male? Because there's absolutely no reason to change him? If suddenly Zelda was a man, I'm pretty sure people would be angry, but I don't see any calls for that.

And if anything, the most vehement defenses have been on the side that want him to be changed.

 

[Not]

I'm just here for the show

cool, a heckler

 

[Wolfe]

In the original post, there's three stills in particular that I use for references. Those 15 seconds provided a surprising number of angles and zoom levels. I also invited people to prove me wrong on the actual points I make, but as of yet folks mainly dodged the objective points.


Now then, if you'll excuse me, I apparently need to become Mr. Smith for the next some hours....

Fair enough.

 

[A-V-B]

You're essentially cutting your potential sales in half.

Probably not. It's Zelda. If they make a really good one, it'll sell like hot cakes because it's a good Zelda game.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

The funny thing is that due to the reincarnation theme, changing Link's gender isn't anywhere near as drastic as, say, changing Mario's. There's no single definitive version of Link. The character is a collection of traits. Link has always been androgynous anyway.

This is how a I feel about it.
Reincarnation is an important part of Zelda, and it gives them the freedom to whatever they want(with a few boundaries of course)while bringing back important characters.

They can make Link a dark haired Asian looking girl in an ancient West African village, and it could still be Link.
As long as she has the hero's tunic, and his courageous spirit she's Link.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

Preach it. Girl Link would be a cop out. I want unique well-tailored female characters if it ever happens...which is why I was rooting for playable Zelda. =

This. Girl Link is dumb as hell. Playable Zelda is the game of my dreams.

 

[daffy]

You can have silent characters who still have personalities. Link is not one of them. The only game I will agree he was expressive and showed some form of personality was SS thus I can easily see why he was male.

I disagree. I think he had plenty personality in Wind Waker and in Twilight Princess. I think him being male influenced that. Similarly if Link was female his character would be influenced by that as well. But that's my opinion.

 

[Vermillion]

You're essentially cutting your potential sales in half.

Not in the slightest.

 

[ponpo]

This. Girl Link is dumb as hell. Playable Zelda is the game of my dreams.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxSWImRPb4

 

[technocritter]

You're essentially cutting your potential sales in half.

You really believe that Link staying a boy will cut sales in half?

 

[DangerMouse]

Nope. This is always the result of that sort of hype and speculation.

Same thing happened when people wanted to confirm... what, Gen IV(?) starters as fake. Same thing that happens in the Smash thread every week.

...God I can't wait for Ridley to be truly deconfirmed.

So why can't these devs who love to troll ever come through with their trolling at the end? Why can't they do it and then reap the benefits of the hype they whipped up? Unironically, it seems like such a thing would be a huge coups for good will.

Maybe they should think about this.

 

[KojiKnight]

I think the marketing dept should at least take note how big of a reaction even the rumor of a female protagonist for the series got.

There's some kind of demand there. What to do with it?

Marketing? No fuck marketing... those guys do nothing but make things worse.

DEVELOPERS should be taking note and making more of an effort to make more games with strong female leads (and not embarassing ones like Super Princess Peach).