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Digital Foundry: Hands on with the Destiny PS4 beta

V

VanWinkle

Member
Ehtonk said:
Hey Guys, i made another comparison from the E3 Gameplay reveal Trailer (2013) and the PS4 Beta (2014).
Bungie changed a lot of the textures/objects/environment/lighting/particles...
But see for yourself:

BoKmFEl.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPJpa2yWGhg
Click to expand...

It looks to take place during a different season, so it's hard to make too exact a comparison, but thanks for this! I really wish there were all that nice grass in the new build like the e3 video had. Environmental outside effects look better on new once with the dust and wind, interior texture quality and diversity look better on the new one, but we all know they took that ghost out of a lot of the interior section because of that incredible lighting it was doing in the e3 2013 build. It would be dumb to taken that away in favor of a flashlight for any "artistic" reasons. The two downgrades I noticed besides that are the lowered geometry on the wall of the building from outside, and the big interior section when it was lit up.
 
H

HTupolev

Member
Ehtonk said:
Bungie was never a developer known for raising the bar visual wise.
Click to expand...
That really depends on what era you're talking about (and who you talk to). Halo 1, for instance, made a splash. And pretty much all of their games since are defensible in some way or another, because even when they're "not very impressive" in some respects, they tend to have some interesting technical achievement or choice or another.

VanWinkle said:
but we all know they took that ghost out of a lot of the interior section because of that incredible lighting it was doing in the e3 2013 build. It would be dumb to taken that away in favor of a flashlight for any "artistic" reasons.
Click to expand...
Uh, maybe?

They're still using a shadow-casting flashlight at the start of that segment, and they still let the ghost be a shadow-casting pointlight in the main part of the wall.

I wouldn't be surprised if the change was primarily made to avoid the feel of a scripted "follow the NPC" section at the very start of the game, and possibly also introduce the player to the game's visual mechanics.

DSN2K said:
image.php
Click to expand...
lol
 
G

gatti-man

Member
The judder isn't spoiling the fun for me and neither is the aliasing. However I have an 80" 4k tv so the tv might be cleaning up the aliasing when it bumps the res to 4k.
 
M

Majanew

Banned
VanWinkle said:
It looks to take place during a different season, so it's hard to make too exact a comparison, but thanks for this! I really wish there were all that nice grass in the new build like the e3 video had. Environmental outside effects look better on new once with the dust and wind, interior texture quality and diversity look better on the new one, but we all know they took that ghost out of a lot of the interior section because of that incredible lighting it was doing in the e3 2013 build. It would be dumb to taken that away in favor of a flashlight for any "artistic" reasons. The two downgrades I noticed besides that are the lowered geometry on the wall of the building from outside, and the big interior section when it was lit up.
Click to expand...

Yep, and I remember Bungie saying they wanted to show the lighting engine off back at the reveal because they spent so much time on it and they were proud of it. HA!

The beta looks worse overall, to me, because of the aliasing. That shit needs to go. They need to drop FXAA and get SMAA in by Sept 9.
 
D

Darkstorne

Member
If anything the frame rate feels worse than the alpha to me. I'm noticing loads of juddering. Not that it's much of an issue - I'm still loving the game! I just won't be playing PVP if it stays this way. I need a smooth and consistent frame rate for competitive play. Solo, I can manage with judder.
 
C

Caja 117

Member
Manu said:
Yup.

From what I've played so far I haven't seen anything that made me think the PS4 can't take it at 60 fps.
Click to expand...

I cant say Im surprised its happening, Both Halo 3 and Halo Reach had their amount of Frame rate drops, I was expecting this to be the same on Destiny.
 
M

Majanew

Banned
gatti-man said:
The judder isn't spoiling the fun for me and neither is the aliasing. However I have an 80" 4k tv so the tv might be cleaning up the aliasing when it bumps the res to 4k.
Click to expand...

That should make it worse. The image and its jaggies are being stretched out on your screen. Should look blurry, too. Unless the blurriness is helping mask the aliasing.
 
H

HTupolev

Member
Majanew said:
The beta looks worse overall, to me, because of the aliasing. That shit needs to go. They need to drop FXAA and get SMAA in by Sept 9.
Click to expand...
If it's the aliasing rather than the FXAA image destruction bothering you, an SMAA post pass isn't going to make very huge strides over FXAA, if it's improved at all.

Unless you mean that they should implement SMAA on top of boosting sampling with temporal reprojection, which I'd be down with.
 
M

Majanew

Banned
HTupolev said:
If it's the aliasing rather than the FXAA image destruction bothering you, an SMAA post pass isn't going to make very huge strides over FXAA, if it's improved at all.

Unless you mean that they should implement SMAA on top of boosting sampling with temporal reprojection, which I'd be down with.
Click to expand...

Whatever method Crytek used with Ryse's SMAA 1Tx and Sucker Punch used for Second Son's SMAA 2Tx.
 
G

gatti-man

Member
Majanew said:
That should make it worse. The image and its jaggies are being stretched out on your screen. Should look blurry, too. Unless the blurriness is helping mask the aliasing.
Click to expand...

I can see the judder it just doesn't bother me. The aliasing I think gets smoothed out by the up converter. The image is not blurry though except during fast turns which is standard on lcd tvs anyways. If I was using a gaming monitor or plasma it would probably be more evident.
 
H

HTupolev

Member
Majanew said:
Whatever method Crytek used with Ryse's SMAA 1Tx and Sucker Punch used for Second Son's SMAA 2Tx.
Click to expand...
Temporal reprojection alongside SMAA post.

The irony is that Reach's temporal AA is conceptually in the same ballpark as those, but it's was a pretty ambitious target with Bungie's seventh-gen motion tracking. When the eighth gen hits and temporal AA is a big thing being used by some of the really "graphically impressive" games, suddenly Bungie isn't using it.
 
B

Bornstellar

Member
VanWinkle said:
It looks to take place during a different season, so it's hard to make too exact a comparison, but thanks for this! I really wish there were all that nice grass in the new build like the e3 video had. Environmental outside effects look better on new once with the dust and wind, interior texture quality and diversity look better on the new one, but we all know they took that ghost out of a lot of the interior section because of that incredible lighting it was doing in the e3 2013 build. It would be dumb to taken that away in favor of a flashlight for any "artistic" reasons. The two downgrades I noticed besides that are the lowered geometry on the wall of the building from outside, and the big interior section when it was lit up.
Click to expand...

It's just a different ToD, you can go to that area in old Russia and make a better comparison with the same ToD as the reveal footage. And yes, there have been some improvements since the reveal in terms of additional art passes, but there's no doubt that the reveal was running on more capable hardware and some of the tech that was there is gone or reduced in complexity (like tessellation / POM and other shader stuff). Can someone confirm if decorator (grass) physics are gone in the beta?
 
J

jim2point0

Banned
Not completely convinced in the "downgrade." Though some things do look worse. The lens flare around that magic light ball thinger looks like they did it 8in photoshop in less than 5 minutes.

What's really disappointing is the game had such noticeable framerate issues (based on this thread and DF) WITHOUT any proper AA. When I look in the console screenshot thread, Destiny looks like it could be a pretty game but I'm always distracted by the aliasing.

I can see them working out the framerate issues, but I doubt they'll optimize it so much that they have performance to spare for AA :(

(although I feel slightly vindicated after people thought I was crazy for calling out the early screenshots for being obviously downsampled)
 
V

VanWinkle

Member
Man, that grass just looks so much better in the E3 reveal video. Each blade of grass seems to move independently of one another, whereas in the beta it moves in clumps (and the blades themselves don't looks as good). The difference is striking.

blastprocessor said:
They could have done so much more with the PS4 version. Pretty much a cross gen port :(

Destiny Beta: PS3 vs PS4 Graphics Comparison (Game Spot)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjrVH9yuPYU
Click to expand...

Yeah. Having now played the PS3 version, and after watching this, I'm sad that Bungie didn't do more with the new-gen versions. There are a few small differences like bullets in the water making small ripples and foliage moving more in the new-gen version, but it almost seems just like an up-res port. That's disappointing. The game looks pretty great IMO, but seeing what they did with last-gen makes me realize they could have done more with this new-gen version. It doesn't even have object-based motion blur, for instance. Real effects that make a real visual difference.
 
G

Girder_Shade

Banned
To me, Destiny is not impressive at all from a visual standpoint. Killzone Shadowfall also runs at 1080p//30fps but delivers graphics a generation ahead.
I guess cross platform development strikes again for Destiny!
 
I

ironcreed

Banned
Yeah, the beta looks way more washed out than the reveal, but it still looks good. I'll see it for myself on Xbox One in a few days.
 
V

VanWinkle

Member
ironcreed said:
Yeah, the beta looks way more washed out than the reveal, but it still looks good. I'll see it for myself on Xbox One in a few days.
Click to expand...

I don't think it looks washed out. It just had a cooler color temperature from the more wintery weather and the light colored dusty wind outside.
 
I

ironcreed

Banned
VanWinkle said:
I don't think it looks washed out. It just had a cooler color temperature from the more wintery weather and the light colored dusty wind outside.
Click to expand...

The early portion of the comparison definitely looks washed out, but there were parts that actually looked more detailed and crisp on the inside. Overall, I still think the game looks fantastic, even in compressed Youtube videos. Can't wait to see it first hand, where it will no doubt look even better.
 
V

VanWinkle

Member
JB1981 said:
PS3 looks good.
Click to expand...

When I first played it on PS3, I was taken aback by how blurry it was compared to the PS4 version. I never completely got over that but after a couple of minutes, I found the game to be very playable and even really nice looking besides the blurriness.
 
R

RandyBobandy

Banned
Takuan said:
As in, you own both consoles and are opting for the inferior experience?

The ps3 version clearly suffers when enemies are on the screen and is generally less stable.
Click to expand...

Just PS3, but my brother has PS4. He's stingy af so god knows if I'd get any serious playtime on it
 
J

JB1981

Member
VanWinkle said:
When I first played it on PS3, I was taken aback by how blurry it was compared to the PS4 version. I never completely got over that but after a couple of minutes, I found the game to be very playable and even really nice looking besides the blurriness.
Click to expand...

Yes other than some enhancements and higher resolution PS3 owners aren't missing much. Kind of like the Titanfall situation.. Actually Titanfall gap probably larger
 
M

Majanew

Banned
1080p, better shadows, and swaying trees looks to be all Bungie could do for PS4 version. Another awesome game from Bungie that is marred by aliasing, frame-rate issues, and so-so graphics. Maybe they should hire someone capable of helping them.
 
MaulerX

MaulerX

Member
Majanew said:
1080p, better shadows, and swaying trees looks to be all Bungie could do for PS4 version. Another awesome game from Bungie that is marred by aliasing, frame-rate issues, and so-so graphics. Maybe they should hire someone capable of helping them.
Click to expand...


As a Halo fan, over the years, I came to realize that Bungie simply isn't a graphics pushing type of dev. Now that they're multiplat, other people will come to realize this as well.
 
H

Hunter-Zero

Member
I noticed more judder now in the beta, dunno why, maybe now i am looking for it while in the alpha i noticed something wrong but wasn´t sure what.
 
H

HardRojo

Member
Is it wrong that playing Destiny is only making me more impatient for the next Mass Effect? Especially when I'm in the Tower.
 
Hawk269

Hawk269

Member
gatti-man said:
I can see the judder it just doesn't bother me. The aliasing I think gets smoothed out by the up converter. The image is not blurry though except during fast turns which is standard on lcd tvs anyways. If I was using a gaming monitor or plasma it would probably be more evident.
Click to expand...

Agree. I have 2 4k Sets in my home. A 65" Sony XBR-900a and a Panasonic AX800u 65" and games look better on these sets than they did on my 1080p sets. I still have a Sony 65" 850a 1080p and tried gaming on all three and found that the image looks a little cleaner on the 4k sets due to the up converter that is built into the sets. I don't see the blurriness that people claim (which mainly are people that don't have a 4k set). Overall, it does do clean things up a little. Not saying it is leaps and bounds better, as my 850a is a really nice set, but doing a comparison I did about a week ago, overall I liked the image better on the 4k while gaming on the PS4/Xbox One.

But back to the Destiny, the IQ is still not the greatest and does anyone else feel that based on the visuals is there any reason why this game is not running at 60fps? I can understand if the IQ was cleaner on why it is at 30fps, since adding better AA would use more juice. I am not saying the game looks bad at all, but just with the heritage of the game being on the previous generation, the IQ level and the environment detail that this game should be running at 60fps on the PS4.
 
R

RadicalVelocity

Member
Halo 1 was very impressive, technically (artistically, things improved dramatically from there...), when it launched. They haven't really pushed things in the same way since, though.

Some things are worse looking in the beta, but many others are better looking. Textures especially.

As for not being 60fps, I don't expect they would do that even if it were easily possible. That sets an expectation of being 60fps for the sequels, which will limit them when they drop the last generation. And that is something I look forward to. They've stated that they're making one build which then gets pushed to the 4 platforms, and it shows in how very close they are outside the obvious low hanging fruit of higher rendering and texture resolutions, shadows, etc. That's a lot of room for improvement once it moves to current-gen only.
 
R

RandyBobandy

Banned
Gintamen said:
Why would you chose the washed out version. It's as if you chose to watch a video in 420 when you could have 720/1080. Did play both for a day and I can't go back to the PS3 version now.
Click to expand...

Because outside of resolution and textures there is no notable difference. It's the same game. And to me, it's not much of a difference to care really. There should be major differences between the 360/PS3 version and the PS4/XB1 version aside from graphical ones

Really, cross-gen is a detriment to games like this.

At least make the PS4/XB1 versions 60fps

And the PS3 version will be 720 anyway. Or at least 640 like Halo 3 was
 
F

Fracas

#fuckonami
There's definitely some judder but I don't see any graphical downgrades at all. The game looks phenomenal on PS4.
 
SMOK3Y

SMOK3Y

Generous Member
Protome said:
Am I the only one who thinks the beta footage looks way better than the old E3 footage?
I mean, on a technical level it looks like there's less foliage and a few other downgrades, but the overall atmosphere and the lighting in particular seem vastly improved.
Click to expand...

agree with Protome
 
E

EvB

Member
MaulerX said:
As a Halo fan, over the years, I came to realize that Bungie simply isn't a graphics pushing type of dev. Now that they're multiplat, other people will come to realize this as well.
Click to expand...

Halo always did a whole bunch of stuff that most FPS's didn't , so I always felt that was a valid excuse for them for the graphics to be the way they were.
Whilst that is still a valid excuse for the 360/PS3 version, I don't think that looking the way it does is good enough for the next gen versions. I suppose a game that is so rooted in last gen tech is bound to be that way, presumably the engine is a fork from the Halo Reach engine as it really does look very similar.
 
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