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[Sakura]

I don't think that's the only alternative. Surely we can agree there is some space between Nintendo's current approach and exactly mimicking Xbox/Playstation. Saying Nintendo's current approach isn't working is different from saying they must do exactly what Sony is doing.

The Wii was a great example of that; clearly, it's possible to create a "different" console which is enormously popular. It's possible to do, the Wii U just isn't it.

Hmm...
But for me, I really did not like the Wii, but I love the Wii U.
So if they did change trajectory, it could result in something I have no interest in.
I'm aware it's selfish, but I'd rather have Nintendo release a product I like even if it isn't a success, versus releasing a product I don't like that is a success.

 

[Tobor]

The trajectory you apparently enjoy so much is killing the company. If you don't care if Nintendo dies, that's fine.



It assumes you don't want them to die, yes. If you'd rather get exactly what you want today even if that means the companies fails and you can't get anything at all tomorrow, then be my guest, I suppose.

I've had this exact argument many times, and the result is always the same. The hard core Nintendo fan would rather the company die than change. It's stunning and rather sad.

 

[Mpl90]

I don't think that's the only alternative. Surely we can agree there is some space between Nintendo's current approach and exactly mimicking Xbox/Playstation. Saying Nintendo's current approach isn't working is different from saying they must do exactly what Sony is doing.

The Wii was a great example of that; clearly, it's possible to create a "different" console which is enormously popular. It's possible to do, the Wii U just isn't it.

Yeeeeeah, it's not a black or white situation at all. Just like the world isn't black or white. I fear too many people see these things like that, but Nintendo not following the 3DS/Wii U way doesn't mean AT ALL following Sony/MS way. Something like the iOS-ification plan Iwata explained back in January, if well executed (that's the main thing) would be following a different route from the current one, without being similar to MS and Sony at all.

 

[Zips]

It's unfortunate to see the company continue to lose money. It's like watching a slow death, and you keep hoping they'll be able to pull away from it somehow.

I'm curious what Nintendo will look like in, say, 10 years.

 

[Opiate]

Hmm...
But for me, I really did not like the Wii, but I love the Wii U.
So if they did change trajectory, it could result in something I have no interest in.
I'm aware it's selfish, but I'd rather have Nintendo release a product I like even if it isn't a success, versus releasing a product I don't like that is a success.

I'm saying even from a self-interested point of view, it probably isn't a good thing.

Let's say I love Ferrarris. Should I be happy if Ferrarri announces they're going to give away Ferrarris for free tomorrow? Personally, I don't think I should be. Yes, I get a free Ferrarri tomorrow... but then no Ferrarris are ever made again, because a policy like that would put Ferrarri out of business within days.

I'm suggesting a long term outlook is better. Do you like Nintendo's products, generally? Then you probably don't want them to die. Even if that means making some choices that you might not like.

 

[GregLombardi]

It's unfortunate to see the company continue to lose money. It's like watching a slow death, and you keep hoping they'll be able to pull away from it somehow.

I'm curious what Nintendo will look like in, say, 10 years.

Very different. And judging by their history -- very profitable.

 

[Shiggy]

The wasted months without MK8 and Smash propelling the
console won't exist next year, MK8 and its bundle will likely continue to sell the system in 2015 as it has this year, less drought and an expected price drop, should all help Wii U 2015 outsell this year.

The problem is that next year the big games seem to be missing. Xenoblade X, Splatoon, or Zelda aren't going to do nearly as much as MK8 or SSB. A pricedrop might help a bit though.

Do we really want a third, near identical console? I'd much rather Nintendo stick to taking risks. That's what we like them for, and they took a risk for the Wii U and for the second time ever in their company's gaming history, it didn't pay off. It happens.

Well, does anyone want a console that does most of the things worse than the competition? Looking at the sales of the Wii U, I know the answer. It would be best if they tried something new instead of relying too much on their old successes and old policies. If the DS and Wii should've taught Nintendo one thing, it's that people want to experience something new and get tired of the same old games rather quickly.

 

[JoeM86]

I'm saying even from a self-interested point of view, it probably isn't a good thing.

Let's say I love Ferrarris. Should I be happy if Ferrarri announces they're going to give away Ferrarris for free tomorrow? Personally, I don't think I should be. Yes, I get a free Ferrarri tomorrow... but then no Ferrarris are ever made again, because a policy like that would put Ferrarri out of business within days.

I'm suggesting a long term outlook is better. Do you like Nintendo's products, generally? Then you probably don't want them to die. Even if that means making some choices that you might not like.

Perhaps, but the issue is that the complainers, and usually the same bunch who come into every Nintendo thread just to spout their doom, are all pushing for the similar hardware desires as exist in the other platforms, and that'd just stagnate the industry.

Nintendo do have some things to fix, I never deny that, and it does look like they're on track to do so, but that doesn't mean that the Wii U isn't actually good.

Hell, the vast majority of people who actually have one can do nothing but sing its praises. It's a console where people look at numbers and specs and think "god, what a terrible console", but until they actually get their mitts on one, they'll never see that it is actually a quality games device. It's not aiming to be top of the range and once you remove that ridiculous expectation, it's good.

The issue Nintendo had with the entire console is the marketing. The name, the quality/quantity of adverts and the way they left a hole for third parties to fill when they just paid lipservice. I mean the Mass Effect crap was ridiculous.

 

[watershed]

Unless their new handheld is just around the corner, it's time for a 3ds revision. If not the 3ds is in danger of looking like the Wii in its final years. They need a new premium model to get current owners to upgrade like the dsi line did.

 

[Arc Christelle]

Question

What should Nintendo become that would benefit them?

 

[perfectchaos007]

3DS is down to pre price drop sales numbers. Time for either another price drop or successor. All the AAA franchises that could be system sellers have been released on the system ( Zelda, Pokemon, Mario, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing etc. ) so another game from these franchises wouldn't effect hardware numbers too much. Metroid could possibly move a few units but lets not act like a new metroid game could be the definition of a system seller.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

The trajectory you apparently enjoy so much is killing the company. If you don't care if Nintendo dies, that's fine.

From previous threads about this topic, where people discussed if Nintendo should go third party or not, I remember seeing a lot of responses that they would prefer to see Nintendo die than see them putting games on other platforms or change focus to mobile development or something.

But this is pretty much the issue we've been having since the 3DS and the WiiU launched. On one hand, you have fans that just want things as they are, with Nintendo milking franchises and characters year after year, with machines pretty much made for Nintendo software. On the other hand, you have fans who are kinda fed up with things, and want to see them change, hardware and software wise.

 

[Longsword]

I see two other things that are major headaches for Nintendo for the foreseeable future -at least as far as their gaming efforts are concerned. These are not talked that much compared to the focus on direct hardware performance comparisons to XB1 and PS4, and the impact of mobile.

1) Third-party support for Wii U and to lesser extend, 3DS. They must be missing some serious royalty payments.

2) The falling console market in Japan. With 16% y-o-y drop, this hits Nintendo badly as it is their traditional stronghold.

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

As another note, something I've said before: I feel that Nintendo fans are doing Nintendo a strong disservice by defending their current products.

I don't mean that fans should never defend products, but that they should only do so when it makes sense -- when it helps the company that makes the product stay on the "right track," the track consumers like.

That's clearly not the situation we're in right now, however. Nintendo's products are not pleasing consumers right now. It's been decades since they sold less hardware than they currently are. These numbers make it clear that Nintendo's current strategy is deeply and profoundly flawed. They need to dramatically rethink their strategy -- and quite possibly in ways that many people here don't like -- in order to change the trajectory they are now on.

And every vociferous defense of Nintendo slows this process down. The first step in changing the trajectory is saying, "Okay, Nintendo have really, really fucked up." That's the starting point. If you can't admit that much, then you can't even get started.

So you basically mean that "Nintendo fans" should only defend Nintendo if Nintendo is pleasing the mass market? The Wii Sports/CoD-Crowd?

If you look at this from a economically perspective you are probably right. If you look at this from a gamers perspective who like high quality games you are completely wrong.

Everyone who likes Nintendo games or good games at all, will be pleased with the Wii U, because Nintendo delivered already many high praised games has some big hitters left for this year and it seems this output of good games will continue in 2015 (Zelda, Kirby, Yoshi, Devil's Third, Fatal Frame, Xenoblade, Splatoon, etc.).

Nintendo doesn't "fucked up" they deliver good games, as always. They sell less consoles because they get neither the CoD/Fifa/Madden-Crowd nor the Wii Sports-Crowd this time.

By they way: Microsoft and Sony lost billions of dollars with their last gen consoles and this will probably continue with their current consoles. We are only at the beginning of the current generation. In 3 or 4 years, when all is said it done I would not be surprised when Nintendo earned more money with Wii U and 3DS than Sony with PS4 and Vita or MS with the Xbox.

There are some ridicolous statements in this thread. Wii U will only reach 10 Mio lifetime? I don't know if these people are try to sound funny or if they really believe that nonsense? At least the Wii U will have lifetime sales from 15-20 Mio. 10 Million will be sold early next year.

 

[Frolow]

Question

What should Nintendo become that would benefit them?

Make a console that's on-par with the competition, amend bridges with third parties, and keep producing the same type of software they produce now.

In my opinion, if they would have ridden the Wii off for another year or so and launched a console comparable to the PS4/Xbone in 2013, along with also amending bridges with third parties, they would not be in nearly as bad off as they are now.

 

[Tobor]

Joe, you need to stop focusing on the "complainers" on GAF, and start thinking about the actual problems Nintendo has competing in the current marketplace.

It's not just marketing. They are competing for their target audience with smartphones and tablets, and competing for core gamers with Sony and MS. They are being squeezed from both directions, and as much as you may enjoy them, their current hardware offerings are losing ground.

They cannot survive long term without drastic changes.

 

[Ansatz]

I've had this exact argument many times, and the result is always the same. The hard core Nintendo fan would rather the company die than change. It's stunning and rather sad.

Nah, I visit all Nintendo threads and the familiar faces generally agree with the idea of having a unified, hardware independent platform/service and provide a couple of hardware options. That's the first step, milk another gen of Mario/Pokemon/AC and then 5 years later, we'll see how the landscape evolves. Also respond to popular games with new IPs that capture the essence in the Nintendo way, without being a blatant copy job (splatoon is the answer to cod, etc)

It's too soon to discuss fundamental changes in game design, focus now instead on better methods of presenting and selling content.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Mario Kart did pretty much what was to be expected, which is sell a ton of units but not move much hardware. I think it's safe to say that if MK couldn't do that smash and Zelda likely won't. The landscape has changed so much even in the last 10 years that I think Nintendo needs to completely go outside the box. If they release anything remotely resembling a traditional console again I don't see how it won't be a failure. Not saying they need another controller gimmick like the Wii was but they need something pretty far out there. The days if people buying hardware in mass quantities just for Nintendo's tried and true ip are done and I don't think they can bank on that again.

 

[JoeM86]

Joe, you need to stop focusing on the "complainers" on GAF, and start thinking about the actual problems Nintendo has competing in the current marketplace.

It's not just marketing. They are competing for their target audience with smartphones and tablets, and competing for core gamers with Sony and MS. They are being squeezed from both directions, and as much as you may enjoy them, their current hardware offerings are losing ground.

They cannot survive long term without drastic changes.

Marketing IS the issue. If they had marketed the bloody thing properly, and chosen a name which was less confusing, then I am almost certain we would not be having this conversation.

 

[MariosGirlfriend33]

Perhaps, but the issue is that the complainers, and usually the same bunch who come into every Nintendo thread just to spout their doom, are all pushing for the similar hardware desires as exist in the other platforms, and that'd just stagnate the industry.

Nintendo do have some things to fix, I never deny that, and it does look like they're on track to do so, but that doesn't mean that the Wii U isn't actually good.

Hell, the vast majority of people who actually have one can do nothing but sing its praises. It's a console where people look at numbers and specs and think "god, what a terrible console", but until they actually get their mitts on one, they'll never see that it is actually a quality games device. It's not aiming to be top of the range and once you remove that ridiculous expectation, it's good.

The issue Nintendo had with the entire console is the marketing. The name, the quality/quantity of adverts and the way they left a hole for third parties to fill when they just paid lipservice. I mean the Mass Effect crap was ridiculous.

So the lack of third party support is the fault of the other companies and not Nintendo? Ok.

The fact that the Wii U is so utterly underpowered compared to the competition without a successful gimmick is what has done it in. The Wii was successful IN SPITE of it's weak hardware because of a revolutionary control method. The Wii U lacks the same. Nintendo became lazy and figured all they had to do was release a tablet device --years after the release of the iPad and other tablets-- to be successful.

I have a Wii U and will not praise it because it doesn't deserve such praises. It's a terrible piece of hardware that just happens to have a few very good games. But praise? No.

 

[Opiate]

Perhaps, but the issue is that the complainers, and usually the same bunch who come into every Nintendo thread just to spout their doom, are all pushing for the similar hardware desires as exist in the other platforms, and that'd just stagnate the industry.

Well, I'm not pushing for that. I understand being suspicious in this regard, but it's certainly not my intent.

Nintendo do have some things to fix, I never deny that, and it does look like they're on track to do so, but that doesn't mean that the Wii U isn't actually good.

But if it is good, then Nintendo doesn't really have much to fix. Let's say I felt that the Wii U was amazing -- the best product ever created. At that point, there's nothing to fix; if the system isn't selling well, then it must be that consumers just don't understand how awesome the Wii U is. The problem isn't the system itself, because I have already established that the product is amazing.

I'm suggesting that it's imperative that Nintendo fans admit that the problem is indeed the system itself. Admitting that is the first, necessary step toward figuring out how to change it the next time around. If Nintendo's system is already great, then why change it? It's already great. The system isn't the problem!

Hell, the vast majority of people who actually have one can do nothing but sing its praises. It's a console where people look at numbers and specs and think "god, what a terrible console", but until they actually get their mitts on one, they'll never see that it is actually a quality games device. It's not aiming to be top of the range and once you remove that ridiculous expectation, it's good.

Now we're getting in to a difference in perspective. I would describe the above as a bad product. Consider the Vita as a similar example: it clearly has a small group of core, satisfied consumers. In America, it's the handheld-indie-playing crowd; in Japan, it's otakus. The fact that these small group of core customers are thoroughly satisfied does not stop the product from being a clear failure overall.

You're looking at this from your personal perspective; you like the product, so it's a success. I'm looking at it from the market perspective broadly; the fact that at least one guy out there really, really liked the 3D0 did not stop the 3D0 from being a bad product and a failure.

 

[Sakura]

I'm saying even from a self-interested point of view, it probably isn't a good thing.

Let's say I love Ferrarris. Should I be happy if Ferrarri announces they're going to give away Ferrarris for free tomorrow? Personally, I don't think I should be. Yes, I get a free Ferrarri tomorrow... but then no Ferrarris are ever made again, because a policy like that would put Ferrarri out of business within days.

I'm suggesting a long term outlook is better. Do you like Nintendo's products, generally? Then you probably don't want them to die. Even if that means making some choices that you might not like.

I don't really think that is an apt analogy.
People aren't saying Nintendo should give Wii Us out for free (at least I don't think they are).
Let's say you love Ferraris. But Ferraris aren't doing the company much good. So they change trajectory and start making a mass market generic car. The company is much more successful now, but the car you love isn't getting made any more. Are you happy?

The Wii was a major success for Nintendo.
But I didn't give a shit about the games. It had almost no software I was interested in, the motion controls were a hindrance I found, online was a joke, etc.
Now the Wii U has some of the best games I've played in years already on it, with future games that look great. I don't have to use motion controls to play it. Miiverse is awesome. etc.
So I don't want them to change trajectory, unless it results in something both successful, and with software I like. It's selfish, but I'm a consumer, not an investor in their company.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Perhaps, but the issue is that the complainers, and usually the same bunch who come into every Nintendo thread just to spout their doom, are all pushing for the similar hardware desires as exist in the other platforms, and that'd just stagnate the industry.

Nintendo do have some things to fix, I never deny that, and it does look like they're on track to do so, but that doesn't mean that the Wii U isn't actually good.

Hell, the vast majority of people who actually have one can do nothing but sing its praises. It's a console where people look at numbers and specs and think "god, what a terrible console", but until they actually get their mitts on one, they'll never see that it is actually a quality games device. It's not aiming to be top of the range and once you remove that ridiculous expectation, it's good.

The issue Nintendo had with the entire console is the marketing. The name, the quality/quantity of adverts and the way they left a hole for third parties to fill when they just paid lipservice. I mean the Mass Effect crap was ridiculous.

Maybe the "complainers" have a point?

 

[MilesTeg]

As for a third identical console...honestly that would be great. If I could get GTA, Madden, NBA 2K, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Mass Effect etc etc etc on my Nintendo box alongside Nintendo software, I would only need one console. It's a great value proposition for me.

Would the mass market be willing to switch from their Xbox or Playstation, even if Nintendo did everything right? A powerful console, great first and third party content, modern account system, achievements, subscription for online and whatnot? Perhaps not at this point..but I would definitely be there. And history does show that gamers are not very loyal...they move to the best product, every single time.

Could Nintendo actually create that product? That's another question. I believe they could, but they are still deeply rooted in the "being different" mentality. I don't think there is much question that today's Nintendo is simply not willing to go that route no matter what, possibly to their detriment...or perhaps not.

 

[Aquamarine]

I have to ask, why did you expect Mario Kart 8 to have a huge launch as opposed to a steady rise and fall? The bolded is what I was more expecting anyways. If anything Mario Kart 8 in the US seems to have actually organically sold to a decent portion of the Wii U fanbase as well as gotten at least some visibility to the console here. Sure in Japan, it didn't seem to have done much, but the traditional gaming industry is having a terrible time in general over there.

1st 2 days of Wii U sales after MK8 were at least 25K, as opposed to the 28K average in June. Could the new 140K new Wii U owners and a good #s of folks who bought Mario Kart 8 now become fairly active users of the console? I think Nintendo needed to invigorate their existing userbase first, and I think MK8 at least gives some hope that's possible. If third parties could sell a good bit of software to a somewhat small userbase, I don't think they would mind that over having a very large, but somewhat inactive userbase. I'm not saying that MK8 sales by themselves imply anything, but it'd be interesting to see whether at least Nintendo can capitalize on this with their first party titles (which unfortunately there is nothing until Hyrule except the mediocre Wii Sports Club).

This is completely anecdotal, but thanks to Mario Kart 8, 3 of my friends bought Wii Us over the weekend. Folks started chatting about it over FB, awareness was built, and thus more friends bought the game to join in on the fun. Being a game you play with others (online too), this could lead to just a general increase in awareness and interest around the console. Sure that could all be gone in 2 days when the MK8 free game deal is over, but we'll see.

Also the 3DS played it way too safe. The experimental titles were out early without any support for traditional titles (Steel Diver, reboot of Pilotwings). Then Nintendo basically had a ton of very traditional but well-polished titles released (Luigi's Mansion 2 and Kid Icarus Uprising are probably some of the more unique ones, and look how well LM2 sold =) ), and now is releasing their smaller known titles (Kirby, Yoshi, etc). More wacky and new titles really needed to be released. Tomodachi, while not new to Japan, is pretty new in the West and I think is the kind of title that might have done well to invigorate the console back in 2012 by bringing in a new/existing audience earlier as opposed to later. It still seems to be doing fairly well so far in Europe from what I see though.

Of course I'm expecting steady performances / consistency out of MK8.

But when you go from 0.16 million shipments in an utterly barren Q1 FY3/2014 to 0.51 milion shipments in a quarter where Nintendo's best chance at reviving the Wii U gets released...it's fundamentally underwhelming.

Nintendo needs to drive the installbase of the Wii U. It's great that MK8 is such a big seller to existing Wii U fans, but will it matter all that much if the installbase remains tiny and the third-party ecosystem is non-existent?

It also seems like MK8 is a tad overshipped as well.

 

[Longsword]

Marketing IS the issue. If they had marketed the bloody thing properly, and chosen a name which was less confusing, then I am almost certain we would not be having this conversation.

I am not saying that better marketing and a better name would not have meant somewhat better sales, but do you truly believe that it would have offset the mobile onslaught (especially in Japan where it now dominates), PS4/XB1 push, lack of 3rd party support, lack of compelling new IPs etc?

Would that alone made enough of a difference?

Honest question, not being snarky.

 

[Opiate]

I don't really think that is an apt analogy.
People aren't saying Nintendo should give Wii Us out for free (at least I don't think they are).
Let's say you love Ferraris. But Ferraris aren't doing the company much good. So they change trajectory and start making a mass market generic car. The company is much more successful now, but the car you love isn't getting made any more. Are you happy?

Presumably Nintendo won't just make a "generic console" the way you are describing Ferrarri making "generic cars." Whatever Nintendo makes instead will still be infused with Nintendo's design aesthetic, even if it's not what you see now.

Your choices are therefore:

1) Nintendo continues down this path until they fail and then all that is left are "generic consoles"
2) Nintendo changes their path and finds a successful product which is still particularly Nintendo but is still quite popular.

 

[Tobor]

Marketing IS the issue. If they had marketed the bloody thing properly, and chosen a name which was less confusing, then I am almost certain we would not be having this conversation.

Price wasn't a factor? Lack of software wasn't a factor? A main feature that is fundamentally not appealing to a mass audience wasn't a factor? Smartphones and tablets swallowing up their target audience wasn't a factor?

What's the excuse for the 3DS? It's going to finish its life at sub GBA numbers. More marketing issues?

 

[ForsakenLotus]

Mario Kart numbers are insane. I wonder how close Smash will come.

 

[LegendofLex]

Nintendo doesn't "fucked up" they deliver good games, as always. They sell less consoles because they get neither the CoD/Fifa/Madden-Crowd nor the Wii Sports-Crowd this time.

They also are increasingly proving that they can't even get the Mario/Zelda crowd. If the games are as good as you say, what's the problem here?

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Once you hop in, Baron, it ain't so bad.

I have a WiiU and a 3DS. I don't think is comparable to a 3DS

 

[Frolow]

Presumably Nintendo won't just make a "generic console" the way you are describing Ferrarri making "generic cars." Whatever Nintendo makes instead will still be infused with Nintendo's design aesthetic, even if it's not what you see now.

Your choices are therefore:

1) Nintendo continues down this path until they fail and then all that is left are "generic consoles"
2) Nintendo changes their path and finds a successful product which is still particularly Nintendo but is still quite popular.

Just curious, what's your idea of what Nintendo should do in order to make a successful console?

Price wasn't a factor? Lack of software wasn't a factor? A main feature that is fundamentally not appealing to a mass audience wasn't a factor? Smartphones and tablets swallowing up their target audience wasn't a factor?

What's the excuse for the 3DS? It's going to finish its life at sub GBA numbers. More marketing issues?

The 3DS had issues at launch and only picked up noticeable steam during it's first holiday season. Alongside that, the system also had significant software drought all throughout it's lifetime. Most importantly though, the market's shrunk because of the onslaught of mobile. No dedicated handheld device is ever going to do DS numbers again, that's a simple fact.

 

[metalslimer]

Marketing IS the issue. If they had marketed the bloody thing properly, and chosen a name which was less confusing, then I am almost certain we would not be having this conversation.

I can't believe that anyone that has been watching the industry could possibly think marketing was huge factor in the wii u being the bomb that it is.

Here's why I strongly recommend people not reach this conclusion: because it absolves the company of all blame.

Consider the PS3 as a similar example which struggled mightily in its own way. Or the PSVita, I don't care. Many Sony fans at the time insisted the problem was the marketing in a very similar way.

And here's why that explanation appeals to fans of the consoles in question: because the problem is no longer the console. It's an implicit way of saying "the problem isn't the console; the console is clearly awesome. The problem is that people just don't understand how awesome the console is."

It's a way to avoid admitting that the console has any inherent faults.

Exactly, it stops the conversation as well.

 

[Opiate]

Marketing IS the issue. If they had marketed the bloody thing properly, and chosen a name which was less confusing, then I am almost certain we would not be having this conversation.

Here's why I strongly recommend people not reach this conclusion: because it absolves the company of all blame.

Consider the PS3 as a similar example which struggled mightily in its own way. Or the PSVita, I don't care. Many Sony fans at the time insisted the problem was the marketing in a very similar way.

And here's why that explanation appeals to fans of the consoles in question: because the problem is no longer the console. It's an implicit way of saying "the problem isn't the console; the console is clearly awesome. The problem is that people just don't understand how awesome the console is."

It's a way to avoid admitting that the console has any inherent faults.

 

[Freeman]

As for a third identical console...honestly that would be great. If I could get GTA, Madden, NBA 2K, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Mass Effect etc etc etc on my Nintendo box alongside Nintendo software, I would only need one console. It's a great value proposition for me.

Would the mass market be willing to switch from their Xbox or Playstation, even if Nintendo did everything right? A powerful console, great first and third party content, modern account system, achievements, subscription for online and whatnot? Perhaps not at this point..but I would definitely be there. And history does show that gamers are not very loyal...they move to the best product, every single time.

Could Nintendo actually create that product? That's another question. I believe they could, but they are still deeply rooted in the "being different" mentality. I don't think there is much question that today's Nintendo is simply not willing to go that route no matter what, possibly to their detriment...or perhaps not.

Would third party-support it? Wouldn't they burn their hardcore fan-base by abandoning the WiiU so early? How long would something like that take to get in the market and by the time it got its games to compete wouldn't it be already to late? Can Nintendo even handle games that are produced for a more powerful hardware? They weren't part of the HD gen and they are still transitioning, they are taking ages to release their games on WiiU.

They need tough it out and go through with the WiiU. Later they need to make a choice if it is worth for them to remain in the hardware business like they do now, if so they need to start competing with everyone else. The risk of remaining in the hardware business is huge, its hard to see a scenario where the successor of the WiiU and 3DS would be very successful.

 

[LegendofLex]

I can't believe that anyone that has been watching the industry could possibly think marketing was huge factor in the wii u being the bomb that it is.

The thing is pretty terribly marketed.

But poor marketing is just a symptom of the real problem: the system and its games aren't appealing. The whole project has just been one wrong turn after another, and none of the efforts to "correct course" are working since most of them don't even address the problems with Nintendo's internal development teams.

 

[JoeM86]

I am not saying that better marketing and a better name would not have meant somewhat better sales, but do you truly believe that it would have offset the mobile onslaught (especially in Japan where it now dominates), PS4/XB1 push, lack of 3rd party support, lack of compelling new IPs etc?

Would that alone made enough of a difference?

Honest question, not being snarky.

Not saying that the Wii U would suddenly be at 30 million units and be outpacing everything else, but it'd certainly be doing a lot better, most non-EA third parties wouldn't have ditched it so fast, and Nintendo would probably be at a profit.

Maybe the "complainers" have a point?

I don't think so.

So the lack of third party support is the fault of the other companies and not Nintendo? Ok.

The fact that the Wii U is so utterly underpowered compared to the competition without a successful gimmick is what has done it in. The Wii was successful IN SPITE of it's weak hardware because of a revolutionary control method. The Wii U lacks the same. Nintendo became lazy and figured all they had to do was release a tablet device --years after the release of the iPad and other tablets-- to be successful.

I have a Wii U and will not praise it because it doesn't deserve such praises. It's a terrible piece of hardware that just happens to have a few very good games. But praise? No.

I didn';t say that. It's fault on both ends.

The Wii U being less powerful is part of Nintendo's almost life long strategy. The GameBoy was it, the Wii was it, the DS was it, the NES was it, the SNES was it. These devices all were less powerful than the tech of the day, and were used in crazy ways. "Lateral thinking of withered technology".

Nintendo took a risk with the GamePad, and the risk didn't take off. Again, unfortunately, it happens.

Here's why I strongly recommend people not reach this conclusion: because it absolves the company of all blame.

Consider the PS3 as a similar example which struggled mightily in its own way. Or the PSVita, I don't care. Many Sony fans at the time insisted the problem was the marketing in a very similar way.

And here's why that explanation appeals to fans of the consoles in question: because the problem is no longer the console. It's an implicit way of saying "the problem isn't the console; the console is clearly awesome. The problem is that people just don't understand how awesome the console is."

It's a way to avoid admitting that the console has any inherent faults.

You really think the Wii U wouldn't be doing better if it hadn't had the Wii name confusion and they had gone all out with marketing?

 

[Arc Christelle]

Make a console that's on-par with the competition, amend bridges with third parties, and keep producing the same type of software they produce now.

In my opinion, if they would have ridden the Wii off for another year or so and launched a console comparable to the PS4/Xbone in 2013, along with also amending bridges with third parties, they would not be in nearly as bad off as they are now.

Define on par. A similar architecture possibly for the sake of ports? There are some benefits to this, but I don't see as many honestly. From what I've been seeing with their decisions, it's been attempts to carve in their own market instead of trying to get the same pie as others.

 

[Opiate]

Just curious, what's your idea of what Nintendo should do in order to make a successful console?

Hoo boy, is that a tough one. I can say this: one of Nintendo's great strengths is to do things people do not expect. Sometimes, those unexpected things are extremely popular. At other times, they are not. I don't know the difference, or I'd be making these consoles myself or working as a business analyst.

In other words: I don't know, but then, I didn't think of the Wii or DS or NES, either. Nintendo did, so clearly as a company they are capable. But the first step in moving down this path is to admit that it's the best path to take.

 

[theprodigy]

Here's why I strongly recommend people not reach this conclusion: because it absolves the company of all blame.

Consider the PS3 as a similar example which struggled mightily in its own way. Or the PSVita, I don't care. Many Sony fans at the time insisted the problem was the marketing in a very similar way.

And here's why that explanation appeals to fans of the consoles in question: because the problem is no longer the console. It's an implicit way of saying "the problem isn't the console; the console is clearly awesome. The problem is that people just don't understand how awesome the console is."

It's a way to avoid admitting that the console has any inherent faults.

Opiate, you do realize who you are talking to, right?

 

[MilesTeg]

I can't believe that anyone that has been watching the industry could possibly think marketing was huge factor in the wii u being the bomb that it is.

The marketing was an issue. For both 3DS and Wii U. I don't think there is much doubt about that. However it's not nearly the only issue, simply one of many, alongside cost and software, mainly. As well as the Gamepad not being very appealing to the consumer.

 

[JetSetRadio]

Wiiu's forecast ship has sailed. And it wasn't even an optimistic one, yikes.

 

[Sakura]

Presumably Nintendo won't just make a "generic console" the way you are describing Ferrarri making "generic cars." Whatever Nintendo makes instead will still be infused with Nintendo's design aesthetic, even if it's not what you see now.

Your choices are therefore:

1) Nintendo continues down this path until they fail and then all that is left are "generic consoles"
2) Nintendo changes their path and finds a successful product which is still particularly Nintendo but is still quite popular.

'generic' was just a choice word I used.
Change it to new car you don't like, or whatever.
Like I said, if Nintendo manages to make a successful console, and one with games I love, then great. That would be awesome.
But if they are going to go down a path that results in systems I don't want, but are successful, then yea, I'd rather they go down the 'Wii U' path until they fail.

 

[z0m3le]

The problem is that next year the big games seem to be missing. Xenoblade X, Splatoon, or Zelda aren't going to do nearly as much as MK8 or SSB. A pricedrop might help a bit though.

Historically both smash and mk have legs that very few other IPs share. You do realize they won't be pulling MK8 off the shelf between now and next year right? In fact, the bundle that has continued to sell out everywhere, will likely be one of the major ways people buy the console from here on out.

I'd also like to mention that momentum from this year and early next year will feed 2015 better early in the year, unlike mk8 dropping in a wasteland; splatoon, Mario maker, zelda, starfox should be able to continue to move units week after week rather than missing months without releases doing damage to bigger games. Who knows the impact of Mario maker btw, with minecraft being this huge hit, it's not impossible that Mario maker becomes a system seller. (not saying it will be more prolific than smash or mk, but it can do its part.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

The marketing thing always feels like such a lazy excuse to me. You can't magically throw advertising dollars at anything and make it appealing. You can't make people want something no matter how much you spend on commercials or what you call it. Granted those things are important but a bigger part of marketing is creating a product that had wide appeal in the first place. This is where the Wii u failed.

 

[metalslimer]

You really think the Wii U wouldn't be doing better if it hadn't had the Wii name confusion and they had gone all out with marketing?

Nope, the people that want Nintendo games will buy Nintendo games. Maybe there would have been a slightly better start, but it would have evened itself out. Even with marketing, the console is not appealing to the vast majority of the market and I don't know why some people can't seem to accept that there isn't some vast amount of Nintendo fans out there waiting to be marketed to.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

The Wii U being less powerful is part of Nintendo's almost life long strategy. The GameBoy was it, the Wii was it, the DS was it, the NES was it, the SNES was it. These devices all were less powerful than the tech of the day...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the SNES more powerful than the Genesis? Unless by "tech of the day," you're referring to consoles that were released later like the 3DO?

 

[MariosGirlfriend33]

Not saying that the Wii U would suddenly be at 30 million units and be outpacing everything else, but it'd certainly be doing a lot better, most non-EA third parties wouldn't have ditched it so fast, and Nintendo would probably be at a profit.



I don't think so.



I didn';t say that. It's fault on both ends.

The Wii U being less powerful is part of Nintendo's almost life long strategy. The GameBoy was it, the Wii was it, the DS was it, the NES was it, the SNES was it. These devices all were less powerful than the tech of the day, and were used in crazy ways. "Lateral thinking of withered technology".

Nintendo took a risk with the GamePad, and the risk didn't take off. Again, unfortunately, it happens.

It's a risk that's decimated almost ALL of their profits from the Wii.
Know what else hurt the Wii U? The price, the lack of an actual account system which has led people like myself to not invest in the e-shop, the terrible design of the system that made it difficult to differentiate from it's predecessor.

The lack of third party support which as has been explained is due to the lower turn out for the Wii U and the inability to port games to the system that will be exclusive to new gen hardware.

The amount of mistakes are vast and incompetence significant.

 

[Jomjom]

Can we just please with this fiction that if Nintendo releases a console that has power equal to or near equal to the competitors, that they lose their individuality? I'm so sick and tired of listening to this nonsensical BS. Upping their hardware specs so that they can finally have the same third party support is not mutually exclusive to Nintendo finding something that differentiates themselves. They can still try to find some kind of gimmick or accessory that makes them stand out. Not to mention what has and always will make Nintendo stand out is their 1st party games.

Yes the Wii made a boatload of money with a strategy that didn't require them to have similar hardware specs to the competitors, but so did the NES and SNES, which did have similar specs to its competitors (enough to get multiplatform games).

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Nope, the people that want Nintendo games will buy Nintendo games.

Not entirely true. There are long-time fans, waiting for their dreams to come true, before they buy the box.